The Firemen (SNES)

2012-03-19 12:01:02 am

All the things

So I picked up this game recently after doing some research into it. A fun action game where you play as a firefighter against some near-sentient flames. It's pretty short overall, but that makes it even better for speedrunning Wink

The game only came out in Japan and European regions, so it's probably fairly unknown. It has somewhat of a cult following though, either from people who have tried the ROM for the USA version prototype or in its original form. It is enjoyable and fairly unique; and it's also very runnable. A TAS was finished, but cancelled before it completed the submission process. They completed it in some 15 minutes, but I believe sub-20 should be possible by human hands. Many of their tricks and routes look like they still apply, but it could be pretty dangerous with all the invulnerability abuse. In some places we'll need to keep it safer, and probably change up some of the boss strats.

Anyway, I'm checking to see if anybody else has looked into this game or at least played it. I will be streaming it off and on over the next couple weeks with the intention of eventually running, but I also want to see if there's any interest for it.

Thread title:

So I picked up this game recently after doing some research into it. A fun action game where you play as a firefighter against some near-sentient flames. It's pretty short overall, but that makes it even better for speedrunning ;)

The game only came out in Japan and European regions, so it's probably fairly unknown. It has somewhat of a cult following though, either from people who have tried the ROM for the USA version prototype or in its original form. It is enjoyable and fairly unique; and it's also very runnable. A TAS was [url=http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5588]finished[/url], but cancelled before it completed the submission process. They completed it in some 15 minutes, but I believe sub-20 should be possible by human hands. Many of their tricks and routes look like they still apply, but it could be pretty dangerous with all the invulnerability abuse. In some places we'll need to keep it safer, and probably change up some of the boss strats.

Anyway, I'm checking to see if anybody else has looked into this game or at least played it. I will be streaming it off and on over the next couple weeks with the intention of eventually running, but I also want to see if there's any interest for it.

Mrelmejor56

2012-03-26 09:22:14 am

Hi!

Hey men its a good game speedrunable Cool men

guestyguest

2012-03-26 11:30:38 am

there's definitely interest for this game!!! played it so much as a kid and it's damn cool =) don't really have anything other than encouragement for you though so good luck!

Omnigamer

2012-09-02 12:37:32 am

All the things

Did some preliminary information gathering. The most important things are damage values since I'll be using them to damage boost. Also, the water bombs do a crazy amount of damage in the shortest amount of time, so they will be vital in defeating several of the bosses. The bosses have a ton of HP to compensate, but I think I will be able to come up with some good paths. It will be interesting if I investigate different routes between deaths vs no-deaths runs... It may also be worth investigating what is involved with a 100% run depending on just how it calculates points in each level. Also, note that the game seems to run at an effective 30 fps. There's a lag frame every other frame, but this only applies during general gameplay; it does not come into effect during some cutscenes and otherwise. For example, the entire ending sequence is 60 fps.

Anyway, my notes are below. Actually routing the stages will start soon.

HP:
Enemy values are set up on the fly, and aren't "dead" until it goes to -1 HP.

Small flames - 7
Trail Flames lvl1 - 0
Blue Big Robo - 40
Crosswork flames - ?
Big Flames - 40
Air Flames - 0
Ground Wheels - ?
Line Flame - ?
Blue Small Robo - ?

Bosses
Boss 1 - 350
Boss 2 - 500
Boss 3.1 - 200
Boss 3.2 - 200
Boss 3.3 - 200
Boss 3.4 - 200
Boss 4 - 600
Boss 5 - 700
Boss 6 - 999

Enemy Attack Power:
Based on 48 HP starting health; rescues restore 30 HP
k=knockdown
h=heavy knockdown

Small flames - 4
Trail Flames lvl1 - 8
Blue Big Robo - 8k
Flame spouts - 8k
Crosswork flames - 8
Big Flames - 8h
Air Flames - 4
Falling pipes - 8k
Ground Wheels - 8
Exploding Barrels - 8k
Line Flame - 4
Blue Small Robo - 4
Tracker flames (from big) - 4
Robo arm - 8k
Low crosswork - 8
Slow Seekers - 8
Green Big Robo - 8h
Falling lights - 8k
Trail flames lvl2 - 8
Air Robo - 4
Air Robo explode - 8h
Heat Wave - 8h
Door/Window Explosion - 16h
Green Small Robo - 4
Zigzag - 8
Zip flame - 8
Obstacle - 8
Sploder - 4 normal; 8h explosion

Boss 1 - ?
Boss 2 - ?
Boss 3 - 16h
Boss 4 - ?
Boss 5 - 16
Boss 6 - 16
--Low crosswork is 4

Damages:
Damages can be stacked. So stream + bomb is effective

stream - 1/2
Spray - 1/2
Danny - 4/15
Bomb - 5/2x33 (165)

Super water - 1 and 2 on alternating attack frames; 1.5x damage

Addresses:

7E15C3 - Pete actual HP
7E1930 - Pete displayed HP
7E0C7B - Boss 1 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 2 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 3 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 4 HP
7E0C1B - Boss 5 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 6 HP
7E1E6C - Final Points

Did some preliminary information gathering. The most important things are damage values since I'll be using them to damage boost. Also, the water bombs do a crazy amount of damage in the shortest amount of time, so they will be vital in defeating several of the bosses. The bosses have a ton of HP to compensate, but I think I will be able to come up with some good paths. It will be interesting if I investigate different routes between deaths vs no-deaths runs... It may also be worth investigating what is involved with a 100% run depending on just how it calculates points in each level. Also, note that the game seems to run at an effective 30 fps. There's a lag frame every other frame, but this only applies during general gameplay; it does not come into effect during some cutscenes and otherwise. For example, the entire ending sequence is 60 fps.

Anyway, my notes are below. Actually routing the stages will start soon.

[hidden]HP:
Enemy values are set up on the fly, and aren't "dead" until it goes to -1 HP.

Small flames - 7
Trail Flames lvl1 - 0
Blue Big Robo - 40
Crosswork flames - ?
Big Flames - 40
Air Flames - 0
Ground Wheels - ?
Line Flame - ?
Blue Small Robo - ?

Bosses
Boss 1 - 350
Boss 2 - 500
Boss 3.1 - 200
Boss 3.2 - 200
Boss 3.3 - 200
Boss 3.4 - 200
Boss 4 - 600
Boss 5 - 700
Boss 6 - 999

Enemy Attack Power:
Based on 48 HP starting health; rescues restore 30 HP
k=knockdown
h=heavy knockdown

Small flames - 4
Trail Flames lvl1 - 8
Blue Big Robo - 8k
Flame spouts - 8k
Crosswork flames - 8
Big Flames - 8h
Air Flames - 4
Falling pipes - 8k
Ground Wheels - 8
Exploding Barrels - 8k
Line Flame - 4
Blue Small Robo - 4
Tracker flames (from big) - 4
Robo arm - 8k
Low crosswork - 8
Slow Seekers - 8
Green Big Robo - 8h
Falling lights - 8k
Trail flames lvl2 - 8
Air Robo - 4
Air Robo explode - 8h
Heat Wave - 8h
Door/Window Explosion - 16h
Green Small Robo - 4
Zigzag - 8
Zip flame - 8
Obstacle - 8
Sploder - 4 normal; 8h explosion

Boss 1 - ?
Boss 2 - ?
Boss 3 - 16h
Boss 4 - ?
Boss 5 - 16
Boss 6 - 16
--Low crosswork is 4

Damages:
Damages can be stacked. So stream + bomb is effective

stream - 1/2
Spray - 1/2
Danny - 4/15
Bomb - 5/2x33 (165)

Super water - 1 and 2 on alternating attack frames; 1.5x damage

Addresses:

7E15C3 - Pete actual HP
7E1930 - Pete displayed HP
7E0C7B - Boss 1 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 2 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 3 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 4 HP
7E0C1B - Boss 5 HP
7E0BFB - Boss 6 HP
7E1E6C - Final Points[/hidden]

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2012-09-03 01:39:31 am

2012-09-03 01:39:21 am

All the things

Route notes below. I managed an 18:28 RTA (12:50 game time) with very little practice, so that's what I'll continue to work with. I'm finding that this game is much more random than I initially thought; flames have different patterns and locations in rooms, and a major player is how Danny decides to behave at any given time. I have some solid boss strategies, although I still have to play around with where and when I will pick up water bombs. The TAS that I'm comparing against gets a 15:18 by the same timing (10:22 game time), but the amount of lag is vastly lower in emulator so they aren't directly comparable aside from game time. In any case, I'd like to push it to around that level once I get enough practice. The final thing to look at is runs w/deaths vs deathless. Deaths allow two things: HP refill and a water bomb, meaning that you can use a lot more damage boosts and also not have to go out of your way for several of the bombs. I did my route planning as if it were deathless, but it can be pretty easily tweaked for w/deaths. My 18:28 has 2 deaths, both of which were intentional but unplanned.

Firemen Route Notes

Stage 1
1-1: Just walk through straight to the door.
1-2: Hold left as soon as you enter and just follow the bottom path. Kill one of the trail flames on the way; doesn't matter which.
1-3 (River): Kill first two waves on the way left, then edge close to trees to avoid third wave. On other side of stream, will need to kill one wave and then the flame in front of the door.
1-4: Move along bottom of screen to door, kill flame with spray to stop Danny from going after it.
1-5: Move down to lower left, use stream to kill small flame then spray to take out trail flames. After Danny kicks computer, can avoid all flames by walking at an angle to them. Take outside angle for first, inside wall for second set. Kill last flame on ground.
1-6: Just avoid everything and kill waves as they come. Stairway after.
1-7: Kill or walk to left around first flame. Kill wave and second flames. Take top route to avoid ducking three times, but also grab water bomb to left of door hidden under pipe.
1-8: Avoid initial flames, but use flame in lower left to bypass first set of spouts (nvm; can just walk under spouts safely), then use another flame for second set. Path to first boost is irrelevant.
1-B: Should have 3 water bombs, plenty of HP. Point left and shoot stream, when close use one water bomb. Should die shortly after "splitting off".

Stage 2
2-1: Walk straight forward and damage boost on the small flame if it spreads out towards you. Kill as few things as possible; it will cause others to spawn. Ideally, can make it across with only one boost and only passing one crosswork. Will be tricky.
2-2 (Fans): Walk straight ahead and boost off of small frame in middle of crosswork/next to big flames. Just walk through the rest after.
2-3: Walk straight down and boost off of small flame to walk through two big flames. Grab water bomb near generators, go under and immediately boost on flame to left before danny kills (or can diagonal the big flame safely). Go through rest of way. Should have 28 or greater HP; may consider healing with rescue here.

if healed...
2-4: Continue through, boost off of either air flames or small flames to get through big flames. Should lose only 4-8 HP here.
2-5: Go along right side and damage boost on first flame. Walk through rest of the room hugging right wall.
2-6: Move at a diagonal up and left, hold to avoid first small flame and wall. Small wave will hit; either take the damage or kill them. Small flame after will also hit, so kill. Stairway.
2-7: Head down and right, use stream to kill trail flames and small flame. Avoid robo if possible.
2-8 (Pipes): Boost off flames above to walk through first big, then kill second, then boost off small flame behind it to walk through rest. Boost on small flame when moving down, then hug right wall to avoid other wheels. Walk around remaining flames on bottom. Big flame may or may not spawn depending on number killed. If does not spawn, kill small and move on, then kill big in next upwards area. Boost off small to get around corner big, then kill remaining two bigs to exit. NOTE: Experiment here a bit more. The TAS is able to despawn most of the later bigs by killing first big and boosting starting with second small flame.
2-9 (Rocket Barrels): Just book it and try to get through with at least one hit remaining. Edge along and use small/air flames when possible. Can avoid many flames by waiting briefly for Danny to kill them or using diagonal trick.
2-B: Start off with spray, then water bomb. When he gets big, run away and grab spare bomb from leftmost window. Finish him off normally. Use stutter steps to keep away and still hurt when big.

Without heal, do same thing, but needs to be much more cautious. Should end with 1 or 2 HP.

Stage 3
3-1: Push straight left, kill waves as they come.
3-2: Go around top side, avoid all.
3-3 (Parlor): Use diagonal trick on stairs, boost off second flame while heading down, then on small blue robo. If you take center path, danny should follow, but he can sometimes get stuck.
3-4: Head immediately right, avoid all. Long walkway with no enemies after.
3-5 (Skywalk): Either go around or damage boost first flame to get through. Probably easy to take the boost if only 2 hits from 3-3.
3-6: Immediately head down and slightly right; avoid tracker flames by killing or dodging. Should get through without getting hit. At top of escalator, use diagonal to avoid flame if there.
3-7: Push through waves, after scene just boost off many small flames to avoid robo arms. SHould be able to get through with only 2 boosts; middle robo arms aren't long enough to reach left wall.
3-8 (Magic Carpet): Just crouch. At end, spray. Should still have 3 WB so no need to grab extra. In next room, just move left.
3-9: Just damage boost through with however much HP is left. Forced rescue at end; then go to boss door.
3-B: With 3 WB, kill first form with stream, then toss WB on 2nd to kill it quick, same with 3rd and 4th. Alternatively, can skip WB on 4th and save it for next segment.

Stage 4
4-1: Just walk around flames and go through low crosswork up until the small stairs. Then hug right wall and kill anything that comes close. Boost off something if necessary.
4-2: Walk up and have Kevin start opening door while walking right. If far enough away, won't have to duck explosion and will clear all flames. COntinue to door after.
4-3 (Kitchen): Use many small flames to damage boost through. At most 3 boosts are needed. Major problem if Danny gets started on a fire, won't stop until dead. Should have at least light-green HP (28).
4-4 (Lounge): Walk down, kill flame, boost or walk to grab WB. Boost through bigs; note that there are carpet flames under bigs. Should have yellow or chartreuse HP (12-16).
4-5: Head straight down and use stream to take out lvl2 trails, then head to door on right.
4-6 (Rain Top): Hold right, then edge down to avoid air/ground flame, then slightly back up when near door.
4-7: Can either cause explosion to clear some, but if you rush up the robo arms will never spawn. Can avoid flame waves by following top wall. Head left to pick up WB (#3) then up stairs.
4-8 (Studio): Put out initial flames or boost off them. Follow bottom wall and boost off of small flames when possible. Follow middle path through studio area and make way to boss door with minimal boosts. Ideally have 2+ HP remaining.
4-B: Start off with stream, when heat wave comes then duck and launch WB. When he splits off go and get new WB from 2nd window from left. When rejoins, spray and use another WB; should die before splitting 2nd time. Try to be on bottom conveyor.

Stage 5
5-1: Walk straight down so Danny does not fight big fire on left; use stream to clear anything in the way. Kill flame and make sure to advance Danny's text. Clear flames at exit while he's talking.
5-2 (Rooftop revenge): Go straight down and then slightly right to avoid robos. Cut left early and plow through carpet flames to get to exit. Trigger pitfall to help slow chasing robos.
5-3 (Office): Go around and left and have Danny kick computer. Go under flying robos and heat waves the rest of the way.
5-4: Go left and walk under carpet flames and computer (note, kicked computer can hurt you, 8) to skip crawling. Go up and left while avoiding flying robos. Have Kevin open bomb door (WB is above door; may need) on left to clear path to bottom door for you.
5-5: Go immediately to left door.
5-6: Plow through carpet flames and put out big flame with Danny's help. Then proceed to next room (staircase).
5-7 (Hell): Ignore as much stuff as possible, and pick up the WB along the way. Boost through the first big, and then after that the number of bigs depends on Danny. Some are good, others are pretty bad. Adjust as needed, but in general killing less is better.
5-8: Proceed right until Danny is triggered to open exploding door, then go up through carpet flames to get to door.
5-9: Go down and stream to kill air flames and just hug bottom wall until door.
5-10: Boost off of small flames here and push through carpet flames. Keep at least 2 HP; make way to boss door. If Danny has to go through flames he will try to kill them on way to open boss door.
5-B: 3 WBs will kill almost completely; use one after each "run". Manipulate it to go straight across (move up) then down. Can also keep it stuck on the computers by going across then up, but hard to damage that way. If using only 2 WBs, will need to keep enough water on him throughout.

Stage 6:
6-1: Follow bottom conveyor, hug bottom wall.
6-2: Go down immediately and through carpet flames, then left and blast window to clear path.
6-3 (Christmas): Go straight and put out Big and small, avoid robo. Keep heading straight until stairs. Go on left side to avoid flames; grab WB.
6-4 (Bar): Just go straight up.
6-5: Go up and right and boost off of small flame in carpet flames. Then go up, let Danny trigger explosion, get WB from left-most window. Enter right room.
6-6: Go down and crawl under the two, then head right as quickly as possible. If done right, no wheels should spawn and you can head straight towards the door. Stairway. NOTE: Take top route instead, no crawling necessary.
6-7: Take out waves as they come and proceed towards exit.
6-8: Otherwise, can just use stream all the way through.
6-9 (Duct Crawl): Go into duct and then boost or go around first set of enemies; obstacle flames will follow but shouldn't be an issue. Can push obstacle flames back sometimes at the foot of the stairs, and then just walk around spouts and sploders. If surrounded, windows will cause explosions.
6-10 (Court): Boost on first enemy, then go through and boost when possible to get through spouts and sploders. Pick up WB before leaving.
6-11: Hug inside wall and kill flames if they get in your way. Get to boss door.
6-B: Shift slightly left and use stream while getting close. Once inside the barrier flames, turn completely around and use spray; get centered. Throw first bomb when last ground crosswork dies. Throw second as second wave of sploders comes through, then third when the tracer flames appear.
6-F: Go to middle of right window and fire away. Should be safe. Just duck when explosion occurs.

Route notes below. I managed an 18:28 RTA (12:50 game time) with very little practice, so that's what I'll continue to work with. I'm finding that this game is much more random than I initially thought; flames have different patterns and locations in rooms, and a major player is how Danny decides to behave at any given time. I have some solid boss strategies, although I still have to play around with where and when I will pick up water bombs. The TAS that I'm comparing against gets a 15:18 by the same timing (10:22 game time), but the amount of lag is vastly lower in emulator so they aren't directly comparable aside from game time. In any case, I'd like to push it to around that level once I get enough practice. The final thing to look at is runs w/deaths vs deathless. Deaths allow two things: HP refill and a water bomb, meaning that you can use a lot more damage boosts and also not have to go out of your way for several of the bombs. I did my route planning as if it were deathless, but it can be pretty easily tweaked for w/deaths. My 18:28 has 2 deaths, both of which were intentional but unplanned.

[hidden]Firemen Route Notes

Stage 1
1-1: Just walk through straight to the door.
1-2: Hold left as soon as you enter and just follow the bottom path. Kill one of the trail flames on the way; doesn't matter which.
1-3 (River): Kill first two waves on the way left, then edge close to trees to avoid third wave. On other side of stream, will need to kill one wave and then the flame in front of the door.
1-4: Move along bottom of screen to door, kill flame with spray to stop Danny from going after it.
1-5: Move down to lower left, use stream to kill small flame then spray to take out trail flames. After Danny kicks computer, can avoid all flames by walking at an angle to them. Take outside angle for first, inside wall for second set. Kill last flame on ground.
1-6: Just avoid everything and kill waves as they come. Stairway after.
1-7: Kill or walk to left around first flame. Kill wave and second flames. Take top route to avoid ducking three times, but also grab water bomb to left of door hidden under pipe.
1-8: Avoid initial flames, but use flame in lower left to bypass first set of spouts (nvm; can just walk under spouts safely), then use another flame for second set. Path to first boost is irrelevant.
1-B: Should have 3 water bombs, plenty of HP. Point left and shoot stream, when close use one water bomb. Should die shortly after "splitting off".

Stage 2
2-1: Walk straight forward and damage boost on the small flame if it spreads out towards you. Kill as few things as possible; it will cause others to spawn. Ideally, can make it across with only one boost and only passing one crosswork. Will be tricky.
2-2 (Fans): Walk straight ahead and boost off of small frame in middle of crosswork/next to big flames. Just walk through the rest after.
2-3: Walk straight down and boost off of small flame to walk through two big flames. Grab water bomb near generators, go under and immediately boost on flame to left before danny kills (or can diagonal the big flame safely). Go through rest of way. Should have 28 or greater HP; may consider healing with rescue here.

if healed...
2-4: Continue through, boost off of either air flames or small flames to get through big flames. Should lose only 4-8 HP here.
2-5: Go along right side and damage boost on first flame. Walk through rest of the room hugging right wall.
2-6: Move at a diagonal up and left, hold to avoid first small flame and wall. Small wave will hit; either take the damage or kill them. Small flame after will also hit, so kill. Stairway.
2-7: Head down and right, use stream to kill trail flames and small flame. Avoid robo if possible.
2-8 (Pipes): Boost off flames above to walk through first big, then kill second, then boost off small flame behind it to walk through rest. Boost on small flame when moving down, then hug right wall to avoid other wheels. Walk around remaining flames on bottom. Big flame may or may not spawn depending on number killed. If does not spawn, kill small and move on, then kill big in next upwards area. Boost off small to get around corner big, then kill remaining two bigs to exit. NOTE: Experiment here a bit more. The TAS is able to despawn most of the later bigs by killing first big and boosting starting with second small flame.
2-9 (Rocket Barrels): Just book it and try to get through with at least one hit remaining. Edge along and use small/air flames when possible. Can avoid many flames by waiting briefly for Danny to kill them or using diagonal trick.
2-B: Start off with spray, then water bomb. When he gets big, run away and grab spare bomb from leftmost window. Finish him off normally. Use stutter steps to keep away and still hurt when big.

Without heal, do same thing, but needs to be much more cautious. Should end with 1 or 2 HP.

Stage 3
3-1: Push straight left, kill waves as they come.
3-2: Go around top side, avoid all.
3-3 (Parlor): Use diagonal trick on stairs, boost off second flame while heading down, then on small blue robo. If you take center path, danny should follow, but he can sometimes get stuck.
3-4: Head immediately right, avoid all. Long walkway with no enemies after.
3-5 (Skywalk): Either go around or damage boost first flame to get through. Probably easy to take the boost if only 2 hits from 3-3.
3-6: Immediately head down and slightly right; avoid tracker flames by killing or dodging. Should get through without getting hit. At top of escalator, use diagonal to avoid flame if there.
3-7: Push through waves, after scene just boost off many small flames to avoid robo arms. SHould be able to get through with only 2 boosts; middle robo arms aren't long enough to reach left wall.
3-8 (Magic Carpet): Just crouch. At end, spray. Should still have 3 WB so no need to grab extra. In next room, just move left.
3-9: Just damage boost through with however much HP is left. Forced rescue at end; then go to boss door.
3-B: With 3 WB, kill first form with stream, then toss WB on 2nd to kill it quick, same with 3rd and 4th. Alternatively, can skip WB on 4th and save it for next segment.

Stage 4
4-1: Just walk around flames and go through low crosswork up until the small stairs. Then hug right wall and kill anything that comes close. Boost off something if necessary.
4-2: Walk up and have Kevin start opening door while walking right. If far enough away, won't have to duck explosion and will clear all flames. COntinue to door after.
4-3 (Kitchen): Use many small flames to damage boost through. At most 3 boosts are needed. Major problem if Danny gets started on a fire, won't stop until dead. Should have at least light-green HP (28).
4-4 (Lounge): Walk down, kill flame, boost or walk to grab WB. Boost through bigs; note that there are carpet flames under bigs. Should have yellow or chartreuse HP (12-16).
4-5: Head straight down and use stream to take out lvl2 trails, then head to door on right.
4-6 (Rain Top): Hold right, then edge down to avoid air/ground flame, then slightly back up when near door.
4-7: Can either cause explosion to clear some, but if you rush up the robo arms will never spawn. Can avoid flame waves by following top wall. Head left to pick up WB (#3) then up stairs.
4-8 (Studio): Put out initial flames or boost off them. Follow bottom wall and boost off of small flames when possible. Follow middle path through studio area and make way to boss door with minimal boosts. Ideally have 2+ HP remaining.
4-B: Start off with stream, when heat wave comes then duck and launch WB. When he splits off go and get new WB from 2nd window from left. When rejoins, spray and use another WB; should die before splitting 2nd time. Try to be on bottom conveyor.

Stage 5
5-1: Walk straight down so Danny does not fight big fire on left; use stream to clear anything in the way. Kill flame and make sure to advance Danny's text. Clear flames at exit while he's talking.
5-2 (Rooftop revenge): Go straight down and then slightly right to avoid robos. Cut left early and plow through carpet flames to get to exit. Trigger pitfall to help slow chasing robos.
5-3 (Office): Go around and left and have Danny kick computer. Go under flying robos and heat waves the rest of the way.
5-4: Go left and walk under carpet flames and computer (note, kicked computer can hurt you, 8) to skip crawling. Go up and left while avoiding flying robos. Have Kevin open bomb door (WB is above door; may need) on left to clear path to bottom door for you.
5-5: Go immediately to left door.
5-6: Plow through carpet flames and put out big flame with Danny's help. Then proceed to next room (staircase).
5-7 (Hell): Ignore as much stuff as possible, and pick up the WB along the way. Boost through the first big, and then after that the number of bigs depends on Danny. Some are good, others are pretty bad. Adjust as needed, but in general killing less is better.
5-8: Proceed right until Danny is triggered to open exploding door, then go up through carpet flames to get to door.
5-9: Go down and stream to kill air flames and just hug bottom wall until door.
5-10: Boost off of small flames here and push through carpet flames. Keep at least 2 HP; make way to boss door. If Danny has to go through flames he will try to kill them on way to open boss door.
5-B: 3 WBs will kill almost completely; use one after each "run". Manipulate it to go straight across (move up) then down. Can also keep it stuck on the computers by going across then up, but hard to damage that way. If using only 2 WBs, will need to keep enough water on him throughout.

Stage 6:
6-1: Follow bottom conveyor, hug bottom wall.
6-2: Go down immediately and through carpet flames, then left and blast window to clear path.
6-3 (Christmas): Go straight and put out Big and small, avoid robo. Keep heading straight until stairs. Go on left side to avoid flames; grab WB.
6-4 (Bar): Just go straight up.
6-5: Go up and right and boost off of small flame in carpet flames. Then go up, let Danny trigger explosion, get WB from left-most window. Enter right room.
6-6: Go down and crawl under the two, then head right as quickly as possible. If done right, no wheels should spawn and you can head straight towards the door. Stairway. NOTE: Take top route instead, no crawling necessary.
6-7: Take out waves as they come and proceed towards exit.
6-8: Otherwise, can just use stream all the way through.
6-9 (Duct Crawl): Go into duct and then boost or go around first set of enemies; obstacle flames will follow but shouldn't be an issue. Can push obstacle flames back sometimes at the foot of the stairs, and then just walk around spouts and sploders. If surrounded, windows will cause explosions.
6-10 (Court): Boost on first enemy, then go through and boost when possible to get through spouts and sploders. Pick up WB before leaving.
6-11: Hug inside wall and kill flames if they get in your way. Get to boss door.
6-B: Shift slightly left and use stream while getting close. Once inside the barrier flames, turn completely around and use spray; get centered. Throw first bomb when last ground crosswork dies. Throw second as second wave of sploders comes through, then third when the tracer flames appear.
6-F: Go to middle of right window and fire away. Should be safe. Just duck when explosion occurs. [/hidden]

Omnigamer

2012-09-03 09:18:31 pm

All the things

Brought it down to 11:57 game time, 17:28 real time with deaths. I'm making use of deaths in Stages 2, 5, and 6 since those have the trickiest boosts and some out-of-the-way bombs. In any case I'm pleased with the progress here, but it's probably the easiest category; a 100% run would be interesting to route, but I have doubts that it would be entertaining to watch. It would have to be done deathless, just because there wouldn't be any reason to incorporate deaths when you kill everything anyway. One thing I need to investigate better though is the super-water... it may increase your movement speed as well, and would be amazing for clearing most rooms. WBs would never be an issue for bosses either since you basically have to go everywhere. Just something to start thinking about. I'm going to keep working on any% w/deaths for the rest of the week and see how low I can push it, but after that I'll tackle the deathless category and see where that goes.

PJ

2012-09-03 09:43:00 pm

Is PJ

You said "out-of-the-way bombs" and I read "out-of-bounds". Now I am sad.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2012-09-03 10:05:59 pm

2012-09-03 09:47:49 pm

All the things

I haven't checked a lot of things for OOB yet, but I recall one time when I was hard-knockdowned onto one of the pipes in the foreground. As soon as I got up I was pushed back in-bounds though. I played around with it a little, but wasn't able to reproduce it.

Other possible things to investigate:
-Dying while a water-bomb is in effect.
-Anything related to pausing.
-Simultaneous death/knockback/crawl/etc actions that might be unexpected.
-Forced hard-knockdowns into certain doors.
-Dying while Danny is trying to open a non-openable door (something odd happened with this once; it might prevent flame spawns while his text is active).

EDIT: I just looked into how the game time is calculated. It's based off the timer value when you finish a stage and seems to be accurate only to the second. That said, I compared the game time between my current best run and the TAS and found that stages 4 and 5 can be optimized the most with 22 seconds difference each. That said, my boss strategies are generally better; I'm only off by 1-2 seconds in most of them, but I save 6 seconds on Boss 4 and 8 seconds on Boss 6, which is pretty huge. I will play around with the boss strategies a bit more as well to see if I can't bring those times closer.

I haven't checked a lot of things for OOB yet, but I recall one time when I was hard-knockdowned onto one of the pipes in the foreground. As soon as I got up I was pushed back in-bounds though. I played around with it a little, but wasn't able to reproduce it.

Other possible things to investigate:
-Dying while a water-bomb is in effect.
-Anything related to pausing.
-Simultaneous death/knockback/crawl/etc actions that might be unexpected.
-Forced hard-knockdowns into certain doors.
-Dying while Danny is trying to open a non-openable door (something odd happened with this once; it might prevent flame spawns while his text is active).

EDIT: I just looked into how the game time is calculated. It's based off the timer value when you finish a stage and seems to be accurate only to the second. That said, I compared the game time between my current best run and the TAS and found that stages 4 and 5 can be optimized the most with 22 seconds difference each. That said, my boss strategies are generally better; I'm only off by 1-2 seconds in most of them, but I save 6 seconds on Boss 4 and 8 seconds on Boss 6, which is pretty huge. I will play around with the boss strategies a bit more as well to see if I can't bring those times closer.

Omnigamer

2012-09-05 10:39:15 am

All the things

I ran a 17:01/11:28 last night. Most stages were within 10 seconds of the TAS, however stages 3, 5, and 6 stand to be improved a fair bit due to poor boss fights and some bad rooms. I think I'm going to try for the super water strategy against Boss 6 in general. For this to work, I need more practice for all of Stage 5 and possibly adjust my route a bit. This drops the fight time for Boss 6 from 17 seconds to 9 at the cost of about 5 game-time seconds to set up; seems like a reasonable trade-off to me. I really need to examine all of the WBs and the time necessary to go and pick them up though. I think I can call this category finished when I end up within 1 minute of the TAS game time (10:22). Then I'll experiment with deathless, and maybe even look into 100%.

Omnigamer

2012-09-13 01:28:42 am

All the things

Aaaaaand w/deaths is done. 10:54 game time; I stopped timing real-time. I had two stage PBs and every other stage was reasonable, so I'm leaving it at that.

Now for deathless. This is going to be very difficult to get something good, and I will have to experiment with routes a little more. With the exception of Stage 6, I can rescue somebody in place of a death to regain HP and make it safer at the cost of a couple seconds. Stage 6 I just have to depend on getting things right. I'll experiment with it through the rest of the week.