The Final Fantasy Marathon Thread [locked]

2012-10-07 05:02:22 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

I'll try to learn the Any% Route too for MQ. The problem with MQ for a marathon setting is the RNG can BE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Horrendus. Im going out of my way to pick up a party member to make sure that I dont have to fight battles by myself since If i run into a surprise attack and they cast confuse first turn, it can take 10-15 minutes to win 1 battle using 10-20 retries. Other than that the Name is a donation incentive, there are some weird symbols that can be used in the names that I will get into more later. But I will start working on Any% to see if I can get that done. If I do any% would picking up some of the spells/armors just to make my job easier be allowed? lol.

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2012-10-07 05:09:49 pm

AlecK47: 2012-10-07 05:09:32 pm

2012-10-07 05:09:03 pm

Quote from Poxnor:

I'm of the opinion that FF3 DS cannot be run, and I'm going to hold on to that opinion until someone proves me wrong by generating an actual run (not conjecture or thoughts about a route, but an actual run). I'm not sure how different the game is for the PSP; is it changed in anyway, or is it just a port from the DS to the PSP?

Edit: and by "cannot be run," I mean SS/marathon. For segmented, I'm only of the opinion that I'll die of old age before anyone makes that run, and even then it might not be doable.

Edit 2: I guess I owe an explanation. FF3 DS is a grind-fest. It makes any Dragon Quest game look fast paced, and like it has good flow. I have yet to meet one person who has completed FF3 DS; everyone I've met who has played it has stopped part way through, because the grinding got so bad, so repetitive, and so boring.

For some reason, this post stayed blank for several minutes, but thanks for the opinion. I basically just realized that I had it and wanted to know if it was a good idea to get it in the marathon. Apparently not. Even if grinding can make it realistic, grinding is not entertaining to run or watch. Sad

[quote="Poxnor"]I'm of the opinion that FF3 DS cannot be run, and I'm going to hold on to that opinion until someone proves me wrong by generating an actual run (not conjecture or thoughts about a route, but an actual run).  I'm not sure how different the game is for the PSP; is it changed in anyway, or is it just a port from the DS to the PSP?

[i]Edit[/i]: and by "cannot be run," I mean SS/marathon.  For segmented, I'm only of the opinion that I'll die of old age before anyone makes that run, and even then it might not be doable.

[i]Edit 2[/i]: I guess I owe an explanation.  FF3 DS is a grind-fest.  It makes any Dragon Quest game look fast paced, and like it has good flow.  I have yet to meet one person who has completed FF3 DS; everyone I've met who has played it has stopped part way through, because the grinding got so bad, so repetitive, and so boring.[/quote]

For some reason, this post stayed blank for several minutes, but thanks for the opinion.  I basically just realized that I had it and wanted to know if it was a good idea to get it in the marathon.  Apparently not.  Even if grinding can make it realistic, grinding is not entertaining to run or watch. :(

Poxnor

2012-10-07 05:12:31 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Re FF3: If you want to see what I mean, wait until you get to the second (or worse, the third) job crystal. There's a tonne of grinding after the second job crystal to make anything you get useful. After the third, there's even more grinding on even more jobs that are necessary to proceed in the game.

The job system isn't like FF5, wherein a job J's level only modifies what skills from job J the character can use while in job K. In FF3, both your character's level and that character's job's level affect your stats; switch to a new job that's at level 1, and you do about 5 damage per hit. Jobs level up with the use of many, many, command menu abilities (and skills don't carry over, like in FF5). So, you get three new jobs that you have to use to get through the next cave? Have fun entering 1500 commands in a battle menu. Per job. Per character.

Re MQ any%: it would be a marathon route. For example, I'd call my FF8 route from SGDQ any%. I grabbed Bahamut, despite him not being strictly necessary in an any% run (costs a minute or two overall to grab him, because he takes a while to get, but then he saves time after you get him). I deemed it a prudent investment of that minute or two for a marathon setting; and, despite it not being the absolute fastest route, I certainly wouldn't reject an FF8 SS submission from SDA for getting Bahamut. So, in MQ, if there's something extra you'd want to grab, go for it.

But, if it's a bidding war between any% and 100%, we'd want the any% to be as close as possible to optimal (only getting those things that save time or are absolutely necessary). If a marathon any% route wouldn't be that different from the 100%, then people who bid could be disappointed.

Re FF3: If you want to see what I mean, wait until you get to the second (or worse, the third) job crystal.  There's a tonne of grinding after the second job crystal to make anything you get useful.  After the third, there's even more grinding on even more jobs that are necessary to proceed in the game.

The job system isn't like FF5, wherein a job J's level only modifies what skills from job J the character can use while in job K.  In FF3, both your character's level and that character's job's level affect your stats; switch to a new job that's at level 1, and you do about 5 damage per hit.  Jobs level up with the use of many, many, command menu abilities (and skills don't carry over, like in FF5).  So, you get three new jobs that you have to use to get through the next cave?  Have fun entering 1500 commands in a battle menu.  Per job.  Per character.

Re MQ any%: it would be a marathon route.  For example, I'd call my FF8 route from SGDQ any%.  I grabbed Bahamut, despite him not being strictly necessary in an any% run (costs a minute or two overall to grab him, because he takes a while to get, but then he saves time after you get him).  I deemed it a prudent investment of that minute or two for a marathon setting; and, despite it not being the absolute fastest route, I certainly wouldn't reject an FF8 SS submission from SDA for getting Bahamut.  So, in MQ, if there's something extra you'd want to grab, go for it.

But, if it's a bidding war between any% and 100%, we'd want the any% to be as close as possible to optimal (only getting those things that save time or are absolutely necessary).  If a marathon any% route wouldn't be that different from the 100%, then people who bid could be disappointed.

rinimt

Edit history:

rinimt: 2012-10-07 05:40:49 pm

rinimt: 2012-10-07 05:37:41 pm

2012-10-07 05:36:32 pm

Kupo!

RE FF3 PSP: PSP version has auto-battle (which greatly increases battle speed) but it fixes the item duplication glitch. PSP version is actually a port of the iOS version (which was a port of the DS version but it was crunched into one screen). Outside of that, I haven't gotten very far in the PSP version to comment on anything else.

AlecK47

2012-10-07 05:57:01 pm

I suppose it still doesn't look good then. Faster battles is one thing, but that "tonne" of grinding is obviously metric, and therefore worse. Tongue

All joking aside, if even an item duplication can't save the game from being a repetitive slog, then I really don't see it as marathon worthy, especially considering that the schedule is looking pretty full already.

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2012-10-07 06:04:01 pm

2012-10-07 06:02:10 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Just updated the run-time estimates. Taking the high-end estimates for everything (being conservative), we're already into Tuesday. I never expected this level of interest, especially in such a short time. We're certainly not ending on the Sunday. Maybe start earlier in the day on Friday; or, if more games are added, go until Tuesday evening. *stunned* Hopefully everyone who is still a bit on the fence will be able to make it, because this is going to be amazing.

Also updated the first post with a few quick ideas of potential post-marathon activities. I'll probably think of more; I just wanted to throw out what I thought of before I forget.

AlecK47

2012-10-07 06:16:20 pm

Maybe I should run III, and get us into Wed. Wink

I actually wanted to voice my strong support of the day trip. Even though I'm allergic to nature, choosing between that and a mall is a no-brainer for me.

Also, I love Greek food! Especially if they make true Greek salads (IE, no lettuce).

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2012-10-07 06:57:00 pm

Poxnor: 2012-10-07 06:49:00 pm

Poxnor: 2012-10-07 06:38:36 pm

2012-10-07 06:34:36 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from AlecK47:

Maybe I should run III, and get us into Wed. Wink

Sure, if you started as the first game of the marathon Wink

Honestly, I wish someone would find some crazy, game-breaking glitch that would allow III into the marathon. But as it stands, there's just no way to speedrun it, to the best of my knowledge.

Quote from AlecK47:

I actually wanted to voice my strong support of the day trip.

We'd have to figure out something for transportation, depending on how many people bring vehicles to the marathon; and it would be more expensive than the other outings, by virtue of being a whole day-trip. But, I mentioned it just in case there was interest.

Quote from AlecK47:

Also, I love Greek food! Especially if they make true Greek salads (IE, no lettuce).

Yes, they make a true horiatiki (eatmorelamb.com). That said, booking a dining area is quite a ways off; I just wanted to put my ideas to paper (err, message board?) while I remembered them.

puwexil

2012-10-07 06:41:25 pm

Professional Second Banana

Quote from Poxnor:

I have yet to meet one person who has completed FF3 DS; everyone I've met who has played it has stopped part way through, because the grinding got so bad, so repetitive, and so boring.

Uhhhhh (looks nervously back and forth)...

Being the first person Poxnor knows who will admit to beating FF3DS, I agree that it doesn't belong anywhere near a live marathon. The grinding is an issue, but an even bigger one IMO is the lack of save points inside dungeons - any death to a boss would cost at least 15-20 min, and a death to the final boss would probably cost over an hour.

(resumes looking nervously back and forth)

puwexil

2012-10-07 06:45:21 pm

Professional Second Banana

Quote from FFgamer86:

I'll try to learn the Any% Route too for MQ. The problem with MQ for a marathon setting is the RNG can BE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Horrendus. Im going out of my way to pick up a party member to make sure that I dont have to fight battles by myself since If i run into a surprise attack and they cast confuse first turn, it can take 10-15 minutes to win 1 battle using 10-20 retries.

You'll definitely want to talk to Josh the Funkdoc and/or watch some of his archived Mystic Quest Any% runs - lately I don't think I've seen him have to Retry more than 4 or 5 times in a whole run, and he usually gets times between 2:55-3:10 (depending on if Pazuzu spawns on the right floor or if he has to hit all of the elevator switches).

Alko

2012-10-07 06:56:28 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Quote from Poxnor:

as the democratically elected leader

Really? I can't recall a vote nor voting for you Wink

But who ever said dictatorship on SDA be a bad thing? Imagine every detail of AGDQ being voted xD

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2012-10-07 06:59:42 pm

2012-10-07 06:56:50 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

I wanted to summarize some of the discussion about charities thus far.

First, the plan: sometime in late October, I'm going to pick the three charities that have been discussed in this thread that I think are the best fit for this marathon (as the democratically elected leader, I get to make autocratic decisions). Then, I'll put those three charities into a poll, which will last until the start of November. I'll contact the top charity in the poll at the beginning of November. But, as fair warning (again, democratically elected leader...), if that charity turns out to be terrible to work with, I'll move on to the second charity in the poll. I don't want to risk working with a difficult-to-work-with charity, just cause they were the most popular.

The criteria I'm going to look at when picking the top three will include: (a) broad appeal, i.e., something that would appeal to a large audience and the large community we have here; (b) charity size, as everyone I know who has done video game marathons has uniformly received a warmer welcome from smaller charities; and, (c) potential for ease of contact at the local level for, e.g., media outreach, planning, promotion, etc.

Edit: Alko, I was elected by unanimous vote by everyone in this thread, by virtue of no one complaining when I proposed hosting it in Edmonton. That's how democracy works, eh?

I wanted to summarize some of the discussion about charities thus far.

First, the plan: sometime in late October, I'm going to pick the three charities that have been discussed in this thread that I think are the best fit for this marathon (as the democratically elected leader, I get to make autocratic decisions).  Then, I'll put those three charities into a poll, which will last until the start of November.  I'll contact the top charity in the poll at the beginning of November.  But, as fair warning (again, democratically elected leader...), if that charity turns out to be terrible to work with, I'll move on to the second charity in the poll.  I don't want to risk working with a difficult-to-work-with charity, just cause they were the most popular.

The criteria I'm going to look at when picking the top three will include: (a) broad appeal, i.e., something that would appeal to a large audience and the large community we have here; (b) charity size, as everyone I know who has done video game marathons has uniformly received a warmer welcome from smaller charities; and, (c) potential for ease of contact at the local level for, e.g., media outreach, planning, promotion, etc.

[i]Edit[/i]: Alko, I was elected by unanimous vote by everyone in this thread, by virtue of no one complaining when I proposed hosting it in Edmonton.  That's how democracy works, eh?

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2012-10-07 07:25:21 pm

2012-10-07 07:23:45 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

obdajr & Augora: I looked into JDRF (formerly the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)...well, technically I looked into JDRF Canada (all part of the same organization, but a different legal entity because of being in a different country).

They're rated as an excellent charity, and it looks like they have a strong regional organization structure (as in, they have an office and staff right here in Edmonton, not to mention many other cities throughout the country). In other words, I don't think we'd be dealing with some large PR department sending us form letters; we'd actually talk to people, it looks like.

Additionally, there is the cool coincidence of the Edmonton Protocol (developed at the University of Alberta, just on the other side of the river from where the marathon will be), a famous and significant advance in treating Type I Diabetes...

RaneofSOTN

2012-10-07 07:44:19 pm

I want off the ride....

Quote from puwexil:

Quote from Poxnor:

I have yet to meet one person who has completed FF3 DS; everyone I've met who has played it has stopped part way through, because the grinding got so bad, so repetitive, and so boring.

Uhhhhh (looks nervously back and forth)...

Being the first person Poxnor knows who will admit to beating FF3DS, I agree that it doesn't belong anywhere near a live marathon. The grinding is an issue, but an even bigger one IMO is the lack of save points inside dungeons - any death to a boss would cost at least 15-20 min, and a death to the final boss would probably cost over an hour.

(resumes looking nervously back and forth)

I'll be the 2nd person to openly admit to beating FF3DS, albeit after a while, I just Low leveled the damn game and gave up on changing classes and just tried to make strategys that might work and prayed for luck (hahahahahaha yeah right!)

MetaSigma

2012-10-07 08:54:34 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

You know this might be crazy but what about starting Thursday NIGHT? The reason I say this is because it's going to be rough if it pushes into Tuesday let alone late Monday night. I'm greatly excited about this level of interest but the more that gets added the more and more I'm cringing about the fact that it's pushing closer and closer into time needed for the trip back. Not to mention the fact I'll be missing the after-marathon events Sad

which I was hoping to take part in as well. Would it be a problem to do this? I know for sure I could make it late Wednesday since it would be possible to leave early Wed, get there later and then have from Thursday - Monday to do the marathon?

Poxnor

2012-10-07 09:15:53 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

I'm going to fly a holding pattern on that issue for the moment, Meta.

Unfortunately, we can't set the cutoff for adding games too early, because still far too many people are "90% sure" that they can make it. But, we can't set it too late, because we need to set solid dates for the marathon. I was thinking mid-December, but perhaps that's leaving it too long.

I'm going to see how things play out over the next few weeks, regarding the actual game lengths, then I'll reassess.

MetaSigma

2012-10-07 09:21:25 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Actually Mid-December is perfect. That's a little more than 2 months out and at least then we can set something up in stone and then work on the smaller details as they arrive.

It's a fair assessment by all means. Smiley

ZenicReverie

2012-10-07 09:21:45 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

Quote from puwexil:

Quote from Poxnor:

I have yet to meet one person who has completed FF3 DS; everyone I've met who has played it has stopped part way through, because the grinding got so bad, so repetitive, and so boring.

Uhhhhh (looks nervously back and forth)...

Being the first person Poxnor knows who will admit to beating FF3DS, I agree that it doesn't belong anywhere near a live marathon. The grinding is an issue, but an even bigger one IMO is the lack of save points inside dungeons - any death to a boss would cost at least 15-20 min, and a death to the final boss would probably cost over an hour.

(resumes looking nervously back and forth)

I'll be the 2nd person to openly admit to beating FF3DS, albeit after a while, I just Low leveled the damn game and gave up on changing classes and just tried to make strategys that might work and prayed for luck (hahahahahaha yeah right!)

I beat it. The grinding was really bad. I stuck with Monks throughout, except when I needed toad or mini. To get through the final area, I needed to grind from level 40 - 70. First time I played I stopped at the toad tower.

[quote="RaneofSOTN"][quote="puwexil"][quote="Poxnor"]I have yet to meet one person who has completed FF3 DS; everyone I've met who has played it has stopped part way through, because the grinding got so bad, so repetitive, and so boring.[/quote]
Uhhhhh (looks nervously back and forth)...

Being the first person Poxnor knows who will admit to beating FF3DS, I agree that it doesn't belong anywhere near a live marathon.  The grinding is an issue, but an even bigger one IMO is the lack of save points inside dungeons - any death to a boss would cost at least 15-20 min, and a death to the final boss would probably cost over an hour.

(resumes looking nervously back and forth)[/quote]
I'll be the 2nd person to openly admit to beating FF3DS, albeit after a while, I just Low leveled the damn game and gave up on changing classes and just tried to make strategys that might work and prayed for luck (hahahahahaha yeah right!)[/quote]
I beat it. The grinding was really bad. I stuck with Monks throughout, except when I needed toad or mini. To get through the final area, I needed to grind from level 40 - 70. First time I played I stopped at the toad tower.

Terribleno

2012-10-07 10:34:06 pm

Ok, this is starting to come together. On advise of MetaSigma and things that just make sense, two characters are set in stone, Fighter and White Mage. The other two will be donation-driven since they are irrelevant. I'm in the process of practicing the Soul of Chaos dungeons to see if any of them can be completed quickly, though I suspect the only two worth donating for are Whisperwind and Lifespring. Dunno what they'll add yet, so I'm still keeping them out.

The current estimate with the two characters set in stone is 2 and a half hours. The worst luck should come in well under that, but I'm trying to give myself enough leeway.

Poxnor

2012-10-07 10:58:07 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Terribleno:

The other two will be donation-driven since they are irrelevant.

Way to sell them as donation incentives Wink

Quote from Terribleno:

I'm in the process of practicing the Soul of Chaos dungeons to see if any of them can be completed quickly, though I suspect the only two worth donating for are Whisperwind and Lifespring. Dunno what they'll add yet, so I'm still keeping them out.

Awesome idea, even if it doesn't pan out. Keep me in the loop about whether or not they make sense to add.

Quote from Terribleno:

The current estimate with the two characters set in stone is 2 and a half hours. The worst luck should come in well under that, but I'm trying to give myself enough leeway.

Whoa, I had no idea this version, while not only being a better watch, is also so much faster than the NES version. I mean, the current SDA SS on the NES is just under four hours. Way to go -- keep it up Smiley

Terribleno

2012-10-08 01:25:46 am

Something I omitted from my previous post, but mad props to dn for solving my PSP streaming issues. And my tests today even produced this gem. More to come!

Sir VG

2012-10-08 01:45:50 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Terribleno:

Something I omitted from my previous post, but mad props to dn for solving my PSP streaming issues. And my tests today even produced this gem. More to come!

Wow, I've never run into Warmech. EVER.

FFgamer86

2012-10-08 03:21:15 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

I just did an Any% Run of MQ. Watched the first 80 mins of funkdoc's run and then just winged the rest lol. Ended first attempt at 3:22 so not too bad. I know I can save some time off that still. Had very good rng til Dualhead Hydra and was only like 1-2 minutes behind but then got crappy rng in Doom Castle. Id say easily set Estimate for 3:30-3:45 for Any% and 4:00, 4:15 for 100% I may get 100% even lower now using some of the strategies of the Any%.

MetaSigma

2012-10-08 06:35:01 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Quote from Terribleno:

Something I omitted from my previous post, but mad props to dn for solving my PSP streaming issues. And my tests today even produced this gem. More to come!

That gem is would have been marathon highlight material Cheesy

obdajr

2012-10-08 12:41:56 pm

Just an update, my FF4 practice is going well enough that I can safely say I'll have a good run by March. I'm fairly confident that it will be under 3:40 but hold off on changing my estimate for now. As for the charity, any charity you think is a worthy cause is fine for me, I'm not set in stone on wanting it to be one or another, though once we pick one I would like to do some research on it. I also agree that FF3DS would be very long and a little unfeasible.