The AGDQ Games Topic [locked]

2011-07-25 11:28:00 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from mike89:

I've already told Mike all this but here's my update:

Sonic 2 and 3 are definites for me.
Sonic 1, maybe, but I'll get to this later.
Sonic Adventure 2 - yoshifan and I are splitting this, if Hero wins, he'll do it, if Dark wins, I'll do it.
I'm dropping RKA, no chance of me getting up to speed.
I might be picking up F-Zero GX, but no promises just yet (don't even have a disc right now).
Pokemon... I personally think this is a boring ass run and should be cut, but it's a super popular franchise obviously and people I've talked to still want to see it, plus we can make it entertaining with some awesome commentary like SMK did last year. So I'm going to keep it for now, Mike can use his best judgment on whether this makes the cut.

I have one logistical idea too: Since we have all this setup time planned (and doubly accounted for in our estimates), should we perhaps consider the possibility that, especially in the early parts of the marathon, we could be running early? We discovered during JRDQ that putting those safeguards in place can put us ahead, and that running early is actually worse than running late because people might miss games they planned on watching. To counter this, I suggest having a couple of hours of short, backup games that can be slotted in if we get too far ahead. Obviously they still have to meet the criteria for being good to watch, but they would be dispensable sort of games. Something like the short puzzle games would be good bets. I would also say, for example, I could do Sonic 1 if we're a half hour ahead at that point in proceedings. Thoughts?

I like the idea. It's a lot easier to pull off at a live marathon with a bunch of people around then an online one. Plus I think that was the issue with being online - any time problems caused hiccups for people that only had x # of hours to be around.

Though hopefully our time frame is much more accurate at this marathon then the last, but if everybody practices hard, it won't be an issue, over or short I believe.

[quote="mike89"]I've already told Mike all this but here's my update:

Sonic 2 and 3 are definites for me.
Sonic 1, maybe, but I'll get to this later.
Sonic Adventure 2 - yoshifan and I are splitting this, if Hero wins, he'll do it, if Dark wins, I'll do it.
I'm dropping RKA, no chance of me getting up to speed.
I [i]might[/i] be picking up F-Zero GX, but no promises just yet (don't even have a disc right now).
Pokemon... I personally think this is a boring ass run and should be cut, but it's a super popular franchise obviously and people I've talked to still want to see it, plus we can make it entertaining with some awesome commentary like SMK did last year. So I'm going to keep it for now, Mike can use his best judgment on whether this makes the cut.

I have one logistical idea too: Since we have all this setup time planned (and doubly accounted for in our estimates), should we perhaps consider the possibility that, especially in the early parts of the marathon, we could be running [i]early[/i]? We discovered during JRDQ that putting those safeguards in place can put us ahead, and that running early is actually [i]worse[/i] than running late because people might miss games they planned on watching. To counter this, I suggest having a couple of hours of short, backup games that can be slotted in if we get too far ahead. Obviously they still have to meet the criteria for being good to watch, but they would be dispensable sort of games. Something like the short puzzle games would be good bets. I would also say, for example, I could do Sonic 1 if we're a half hour ahead at that point in proceedings. Thoughts?[/quote]

I like the idea.  It's a lot easier to pull off at a live marathon with a bunch of people around then an online one.  Plus I think that was the issue with being online - any time problems caused hiccups for people that only had x # of hours to be around.

Though hopefully our time frame is much more accurate at this marathon then the last, but if everybody practices hard, it won't be an issue, over or short I believe.

PEACHES_

2011-07-25 11:42:50 am

I'm just trying to impress you.

Quote from mike89:

I have one logistical idea too: Since we have all this setup time planned (and doubly accounted for in our estimates), should we perhaps consider the possibility that, especially in the early parts of the marathon, we could be running early? We discovered during JRDQ that putting those safeguards in place can put us ahead, and that running early is actually worse than running late because people might miss games they planned on watching. To counter this, I suggest having a couple of hours of short, backup games that can be slotted in if we get too far ahead. Obviously they still have to meet the criteria for being good to watch, but they would be dispensable sort of games. Something like the short puzzle games would be good bets. I would also say, for example, I could do Sonic 1 if we're a half hour ahead at that point in proceedings. Thoughts?

I keep hearing that running early is worse and I hate that mentality. It makes zero sense to me. Running late not only makes viewers miss their games anyways (people don't just sit on the computer all day -- if they did then they wouldn't have missed the early run), but it's also frustrating for runners that have to change their own schedules. That mentality is what got us several hours behind in both marathons I participated in (and we will never, ever get several hours ahead), which was very frustrating for me during AGDQ because I had to stay up from midnight to 6AM as my run got pushed back bit by bit. I was dead tired and none of my friends were able to watch. Also it would have been frustrating during JRDQ because I had exams in the morning. Thankfully some more flexible runners agreed to change their own runtime. On top of that, although totally coincidental, a tornado hit my town about an hour after my run ended and I was without power for the rest of the night, and I would have been extremely bitter over that if my run got pushed back just because we wasted the early time we had gained during the early parts of JRDQ. That's why I think instead of (or in addition to) having bonus games, we should find people willing to volunteer flexibility in their run ahead of time, since that would be the best-case scenario solution to running late if all the early/setup time is exhausted and something still comes up (which it probably will).

[quote="mike89"]I have one logistical idea too: Since we have all this setup time planned (and doubly accounted for in our estimates), should we perhaps consider the possibility that, especially in the early parts of the marathon, we could be running [i]early[/i]? We discovered during JRDQ that putting those safeguards in place can put us ahead, and that running early is actually [i]worse[/i] than running late because people might miss games they planned on watching. To counter this, I suggest having a couple of hours of short, backup games that can be slotted in if we get too far ahead. Obviously they still have to meet the criteria for being good to watch, but they would be dispensable sort of games. Something like the short puzzle games would be good bets. I would also say, for example, I could do Sonic 1 if we're a half hour ahead at that point in proceedings. Thoughts?[/quote]
 
I keep hearing that running early is worse and I hate that mentality. It makes zero sense to me. Running late not only makes viewers miss their games anyways (people don't just sit on the computer all day -- if they did then they wouldn't have missed the early run), but it's also frustrating for runners that have to change their own schedules. That mentality is what got us several hours behind in both marathons I participated in (and we will never, ever get several hours ahead), which was very frustrating for me during AGDQ because I had to stay up from midnight to 6AM as my run got pushed back bit by bit. I was dead tired and none of my friends were able to watch. Also it would have been frustrating during JRDQ because I had exams in the morning. Thankfully some more flexible runners agreed to change their own runtime. On top of that, although totally coincidental, a tornado hit my town about an hour after my run ended and I was without power for the rest of the night, and I would have been extremely bitter over that if my run got pushed back just because we wasted the early time we had gained during the early parts of JRDQ. That's why I think instead of (or in addition to) having bonus games, we should find people willing to volunteer flexibility in their run ahead of time, since that would be the best-case scenario solution to running late if all the early/setup time is exhausted and something still comes up (which it probably will).

mike89

2011-07-25 11:57:07 am

SEGA Junkie

Quote from PEACHES_:

That's why I think instead of (or in addition to) having bonus games, we should find people willing to volunteer flexibility in their run ahead of time, since that would be the best-case scenario solution to running late if all the early/setup time is exhausted and something still comes up (which it probably will).

I like this idea, but it's not going to work in every single case. With JRDQ it worked better because there weren't really any coherent themes (it was much more difficult because we had to work around everyone's free time), but with this all the Mario games are together, all the Sonic games, all the Mega Man games etc, not to mention everyone's not going to be there the whole time either (as you noted), so we can't just pull one out of those and do the rest later. There will be enough games that can be shifted that this could still work, I think, it just depends whether you want to potentially piss off fans of a game like, let's say Blaster Master that doesn't really go in a theme other than "NES games" and therefore would be more likely to be shifted around in such a case.

[quote="PEACHES_"]That's why I think instead of (or in addition to) having bonus games, we should find people willing to volunteer flexibility in their run ahead of time, since that would be the best-case scenario solution to running late if all the early/setup time is exhausted and something still comes up (which it probably will). [/quote]

I like this idea, but it's not going to work in every single case. With JRDQ it worked better because there weren't really any coherent themes (it was much more difficult because we had to work around everyone's free time), but with this all the Mario games are together, all the Sonic games, all the Mega Man games etc, not to mention everyone's not going to be there the whole time either (as you noted), so we can't just pull one out of those and do the rest later. There will be enough games that can be shifted that this could still work, I think, it just depends whether you want to potentially piss off fans of a game like, let's say Blaster Master that doesn't really go in a theme other than "NES games" and therefore would be more likely to be shifted around in such a case.

Mecha Richter

2011-07-25 03:32:27 pm

Haters gonna hate

I guess I should point out that SOTN Richter is now going to be an all bosses run, kinda like romsout's all bosses with Alucard. My best time so far is 34:38, and that's with no deaths and saving only four times. During the marathon, I'll probably save on more occasions since it's super easy to die with Richter.

Sir VG

2011-07-25 03:34:20 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Mecha Richter:

I guess I should point out that SOTN Richter is now going to be an all bosses run, kinda like romsout's all bosses with Alucard. My best time so far is 34:38, and that's with no deaths and saving only four times. During the marathon, I'll probably save on more occasions since it's super easy to die with Richter.

Lies. HYDROSTORM. HYDROSTORM. HYDROSTORM.

Dammit Belmont! How many hearts do you have?!

Mecha Richter

2011-07-25 03:44:04 pm

Haters gonna hate

I don't have the holy water for half of the inverted castle, so I can't really do that. Tongue

Naegleria

(user is banned)

2011-07-25 06:13:32 pm

Quote from mike89:

I have one logistical idea too: Since we have all this setup time planned (and doubly accounted for in our estimates), should we perhaps consider the possibility that, especially in the early parts of the marathon, we could be running early? We discovered during JRDQ that putting those safeguards in place can put us ahead, and that running early is actually worse than running late because people might miss games they planned on watching. To counter this, I suggest having a couple of hours of short, backup games that can be slotted in if we get too far ahead.

I like this.

mikwuyma

2011-07-25 06:27:51 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Mike89: I was thinking about that a bit. We could possibly use some of the games that are cut from the schedule or didn't quite make it, but like said, these runs shouldn't be very long (probably no longer than half an hour, if even that long.

PEACHES: Yes, AGDQ being super late was very bad, but that doesn't mean being 2+ hours early is better. You're right, people don't sit at their computers all day, so being too far behind or ahead of schedule throws them off when they want to see their favorite run (either they'll have missed it already, or they'll have to wait too long and not be able to see the the whole thing or miss it).

Also, JRDQ was different because we had to fill time to accomodate for people's schedules. We didn't really have a choice. If we didn't fill time, then people who were supposed to do their runs in the morning or evening either wouldn't be up, back from their jobs, or back from classes.

I like your switching idea in theory, but in general people get really pissed about schedule changes, even minor ones like switching two games right next to each other, like the switch between Crash 2 and Sly Cooper (yes, people got mad about it). I think the idea could work if the games are similarly-themed and a maybe announced as a possible change ahead of time on the schedule, but we can't just spring it on people at the last minute.

Mike89: I was thinking about that a bit. We could possibly use some of the games that are cut from the schedule or didn't quite make it, but like said, these runs shouldn't be very long (probably no longer than half an hour, if even that long.

PEACHES: Yes, AGDQ being super late was very bad, but that doesn't mean being 2+ hours early is better. You're right, people don't sit at their computers all day, so being too far behind or ahead of schedule throws them off when they want to see their favorite run (either they'll have missed it already, or they'll have to wait too long and not be able to see the the whole thing or miss it).

Also, JRDQ was different because we had to fill time to accomodate for people's schedules. We didn't really have a choice. If we didn't fill time, then people who were supposed to do their runs in the morning or evening either wouldn't be up, back from their jobs, or back from classes.

I like your switching idea in theory, but in general people get really pissed about schedule changes, even minor ones like switching two games right next to each other, like the switch between Crash 2 and Sly Cooper (yes, people got mad about it). I think the idea could work if the games are similarly-themed and a maybe announced as a possible change ahead of time on the schedule, but we can't just spring it on people at the last minute.

PEACHES_

Edit history:

PEACHES_: 2011-07-26 10:41:03 am

2011-07-26 09:32:56 am

I'm just trying to impress you.

I didn't think it was possible to get 2+ hours behind (EDIT: I meant ahead :X) Smiley

if that happens then of course bonus games work. But if we're 2+ hours late, what do we do? Switching isn't perfect but it trades "everybody watches their favorite run late and everyone gets mad and all the runners run late" to "one game's audience gets mad and one runner volunteers to go late". I think running late once setup time is exhausted is an issue that really should be considered.

Dessyreqt

2011-07-26 09:41:37 am

PEACHES_: did you watch the first two marathons?

Personally, I think the runners should have the decency to mercy kill their own runs if something goes badly enough, in order to keep the schedule within ~30 minutes.

Trekhaak

2011-07-26 09:50:35 am

Everybody's favorite monster

lol @ 30 minutes. Also i dont mind if Banjo-Kazooie gets cut. Ill be there anyway <3

Dessyreqt

2011-07-26 09:55:23 am

Given how much more accurate the scheduling has been (though I should really wait until SGDQ to make such a bold statement) 30 minutes should be plenty if people come prepared.

Also, if a runner DOES mercy kill his run, he should be met with applause for his attempt, and the fact that $X was raised during his run.

Trekhaak

2011-07-26 09:56:14 am

Everybody's favorite monster

Expect the unexpected

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-07-26 11:00:05 am

2011-07-26 10:06:28 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

That power outage took 40 minutes, should have mercy killed it.

In all seriousness, JRDQ in the end was only an hour and a half behind for a 70+ hour marathon. That is very little time variance for a long marathon and a vast improvement over AGDQ. Mercy killing is not something I like to do just because a run goes over time a little. At least a few runs (YI, Blast Corps, Super Monkey Ball) went over their time estimates because of donation challenges, but I don't think anyone thought of mercy killing those runs.

PEACHES: Sure, like I said, I like the idea in theory, but we need to do it with longer runs or closely-related series of runs for switching to have any significant effect. It also shouldn't be a game with a ton of prizes and/or donation challenges/bidding wars bumped ahead of schedule or else we could miss out on donation opportunities.

Dessyreqt

2011-07-26 10:41:31 am

I was actually referring to player skill issues, like if the runner keeps dying at a part or can't get a trick off for like 10 minutes longer than they thought it would take. Obviously crap like the power outage doesn't need to be accounted for in this way.

The same would go for overages due to donation challenges, though that seems like something that should be accounted for in the initial estimate (for example LttP is being planned for SGDQ as any/100% depending on donations. Subsequently, the estimate reflects the longer choice.) While you can't account for every challenge, it's good to try and plan for as many as you can think of. I think a lot of runners put up estimates based on their average time doing runs that don't go out of their way for entertainment value or to fulfill a specific challenge.

Also, I'm suggesting the runner take it upon himself to do the killing, but that of course would be dependent on how close they are to finishing, etc. 30 minutes is clearly too tight of a line, but much more than that and people suddenly can't/won't watch some of the runs they wanted to.

I was actually referring to player skill issues, like if the runner keeps dying at a part or can't get a trick off for like 10 minutes longer than they thought it would take. Obviously crap like the power outage doesn't need to be accounted for in this way.

The same would go for overages due to donation challenges, though that seems like something that should be accounted for in the initial estimate (for example LttP is being planned for SGDQ as any/100% depending on donations. Subsequently, the estimate reflects the longer choice.) While you can't account for every challenge, it's good to try and plan for as many as you can think of. I think a lot of runners put up estimates based on their average time doing runs that don't go out of their way for entertainment value or to fulfill a specific challenge.

Also, I'm suggesting the runner take it upon himself to do the killing, but that of course would be dependent on how close they are to finishing, etc. 30 minutes is clearly too tight of a line, but much more than that and people suddenly can't/won't watch some of the runs they wanted to.

PEACHES_

2011-07-26 10:45:38 am

I'm just trying to impress you.

Quote from Dessyreqt:

PEACHES_: did you watch the first two marathons?

Personally, I think the runners should have the decency to mercy kill their own runs if something goes badly enough, in order to keep the schedule within ~30 minutes.

oops, I meant 2 hours ahead, haha. I like the idea of trying to stay within 30 minutes ahead/behind.

Mike: Agreed! I'm sure there are runs that fit those criteria with runners that would volunteer.

Also I kinda mercy killed Blast Corps during JRDQ since I messed up on the last raft of Magma Peak 1hand and didn't want to delay Zelda another minute :p

Tigger77

2011-07-26 02:11:42 pm

I survived MIKE-Fest 1

not completing a game looks bad IMO
except for halo no game came even close to the halo rule IMO

Dessyreqt

2011-07-26 05:39:13 pm

Tigger, I agree with both of your points. I feel like most of the scheduling issues of past marathons were almost entirely due to a combination of outside problems and poor planning (notably the lack of proper accounting for setup time.) The planning bit is already improved, and you can't do that much about outside factors such as a power outage or your original venue not supplying you with the promised bandwidth. At that point, we just need to keep the runners in line, and as you said, that's not a huge problem. And actually, I know of at least runner who mercy killed his own run: Rane, for his part in the SotN race at AGDQ. He could have continued with a normal route and finished probably 10 minutes later just to finish it, but when it came down to it, he just set his own pride aside and let the rest of the marathon continue as close to schedule as it could.

Sir VG

2011-07-26 10:33:48 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Dessyreqt:

Tigger, I agree with both of your points. I feel like most of the scheduling issues of past marathons were almost entirely due to a combination of outside problems and poor planning (notably the lack of proper accounting for setup time.) The planning bit is already improved, and you can't do that much about outside factors such as a power outage or your original venue not supplying you with the promised bandwidth. At that point, we just need to keep the runners in line, and as you said, that's not a huge problem. And actually, I know of at least runner who mercy killed his own run: Rane, for his part in the SotN race at AGDQ. He could have continued with a normal route and finished probably 10 minutes later just to finish it, but when it came down to it, he just set his own pride aside and let the rest of the marathon continue as close to schedule as it could.

PJ could have kept going on ActRaiser too, since he was all the way caught up to Marahna Act I before I finished. But basically he just finished by screwing around with an awesome trick, which is just as cool, IMO. But that's the thing with races - if it's close, the person a little behind should be allowed to finish. If it's looking or going really bad, then I can understand them stopping. Rane gave two good attempts to glitch his way into Dracula's lair and ALMOST had it once. If it would have gone though successfully, he would have come back from behind to WIN. I'm glad he never gave up until the end, really. Smiley

This year, Rane, I predict hitting the Richter skip on the first take and nailing the screen shift to get into Drac's lair FTW.

[quote="Dessyreqt"]Tigger, I agree with both of your points. I feel like most of the scheduling issues of past marathons were almost entirely due to a combination of outside problems and poor planning (notably the lack of proper accounting for setup time.) The planning bit is already improved, and you can't do that much about outside factors such as a power outage or your original venue not supplying you with the promised bandwidth. At that point, we just need to keep the runners in line, and as you said, that's not a huge problem. And actually, I know of at least runner who mercy killed his own run: Rane, for his part in the SotN race at AGDQ. He could have continued with a normal route and finished probably 10 minutes later just to finish it, but when it came down to it, he just set his own pride aside and let the rest of the marathon continue as close to schedule as it could.[/quote]

PJ could have kept going on ActRaiser too, since he was all the way caught up to Marahna Act I before I finished.  But basically he just finished by screwing around with an awesome trick, which is just as cool, IMO.  But that's the thing with races - if it's close, the person a little behind should be allowed to finish.  If it's looking or going really bad, then I can understand them stopping.  Rane gave two good attempts to glitch his way into Dracula's lair and ALMOST had it once.  If it would have gone though successfully, he would have come back from behind to WIN.  I'm glad he never gave up until the end, really. :)

This year, Rane, I predict hitting the Richter skip on the first take and nailing the screen shift to get into Drac's lair FTW.

Satoryu

2011-07-28 12:17:37 pm

Visually Appealing

Mike, concerning the two No More Heroes, as of right now I would rather run NMH2 than the first game cause there's less chance of everything going horribly wrong. Maybe I'll change my mind when the PS3 version of the first game comes out, cause I'm confident that'll cut out a couple frustrations with the Wii controls, and the load times might be a bit better. We'll see.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-07-31 11:16:50 pm

2011-07-31 11:14:27 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I will be making cuts after SGDQ in a new topic, probably on Monday or Tuesday (8th or 9th). If anyone has a good marathon game to suggest (I know Spineshark was going to offer Demon's Souls), then do so now.

Don't suggest crap, I'll just reject it.

Mecha Richter

2011-07-31 11:29:09 pm

Haters gonna hate

I'm still on the fence about considering doing Tomba, but I haven't even tried to speed run it, so unless there's a lot of interest in it, I probably won't work on it.

Sir VG

2011-07-31 11:43:05 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

One that I think has the potential for fun is somebody doing Catherine on PS3/Xbox 360. Donations could be done for choice of ending (Cheater/Lover True/Bad endings) and viewing THE cutscene during Day 8 (anybody who's played this knows exactly which one I'm talking about). Since the game is really all about speed, I think it's a perfect fit.

Would definitely have to go into the late nite block, since Vincent has a potty mouth, though a lot of it can be skipped if you're fast enough skipping the cutscenes. Though some of the uses are funny as hell.

"Fucking blocks, I'm gonna climb the shit out of you!"

I don't have a time yet, but I'm working hard on it. I've nailed gold on all of the levels on easy and working on normal/hard now, but I hard is a pain in the ass, no way I'd do it for a marathon. Mainly because the final stage has some randomness to it.

dballin

2011-08-01 12:39:45 am

Balls jerky

2012's epic yarn huh?

kazrya

Edit history:

kazrya: 2011-08-01 06:12:23 pm

2011-08-01 06:10:03 pm

I know Starcraft was mentioned on page one and haven't had the time to go through the rest of the topic, but assuming Starcraft can be played at a marathon, what I'm wondering is how many people would actually watch it. The biggest things I can see against it are the lack of the movies for story and some of the missions that have long timers to complete an objective. I know the game fairly well but I'm not sure we could get enough people to watch it to make it worth it. Thoughts?

Edit: Little Big Planet. Single player or Multi player I think would be fun to watch and it doesn't take that long to complete.