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I was thinking of doing a speed run for this old PC game, but I wanted to see what everyone else thinks first. I have memorized the solutions to every puzzle, and I have a working strategy for the microscope game that works most of the time. So...what do you think?
Thread title:  
I have actually played this (I don't know how many people have), but the problem with puzzle based games is they are difficult to time for speedrun purposes, like Grim Fandango. But if you want, give it a go.
id watch it
Edit history:
Apathy: 2006-03-07 06:02:56 am
King n00b!
I hardly remember playing the game lol..
I'd watch it just for the sake of watching it..

I'd also watch a speedrun of Phantasmagoria, or whatever it was called.
I'd also watch a speedrun of Phantasmagoria, or whatever it was called.

Wasnt that the game with like 7 or 9 CD?  Huh? This game freaked me out when I was young  :-/

Anyway, how long do you think it would take you to run the whole game? If oyu know all the solutions.
King n00b!
Something like that lol. I just remember playing through it twice, and having to use an online guide because the end was pretty much imposible to get through without it.
Searched and found this I'm going to post here instead of duping it.

I'd be interested in running this game, the only problem I have is that running the game on a modern PC may involve some work with DosBox/GOG's setup to work on the game's framerate issues.

I'll be playing this for a while looking for anything interesting that might help with a run, and if anyone else has info on it that would be helpful I'd love to see it...I couldn't find much on youtube for it.
Due to SDA's rules, Dosbox is not allowed. I mean, you can still record it but there's no way your speedrun hits the frontpage if you run using dosbox. It's stupid, I know, since you can cheat at least as easily on a dos prompt or a windows98 computer, but rules are rules.

That being said, I'd be curious to see a speedrun of this game.
Dosbox is being debated iirc, so standards would have to be set before I could record a run for SDA submission. Dosbox runs would be harder to verify, and probably would involve sending along config settings and system specs for proper judgment I would think.
Well, you should PM someone from the staff to clarify this. Maybe recording yourself with a camera while you record your speedrun and sending the video along could help, don't know.
Will do, I feel like a screen recording of the config file edits and such before the run would accomplish more than face cam...I'll look into it. Thanks for your replies!
Lol, not a face cam, rather a cam set up in the back so we can see you and the computer screen, to show you are not doing a frame by frame run or half speed. Add a very visible clock that displays seconds and it should be ok for the cheating part.
LOL wow, too much youtube for me I guess. Wow. Yeah, that's a way more practical take on an external recording Tongue
There IS a GOG release of the game... and such a version would make the run acceptable. Check out page 4 of this discussion:
Or was there some problem with that release too?

The first poster was talking about the laboratory puzzle, but that one's optional, so are you thinking of any% or 100%? In my view 100% would probably be more interesting/appropriate for a puzzle game like this. On the other hand there probably isn't a lot of shortcuts/tricks so is it really going to be so interesting after all? If somebody shows me how to beat the CPU in the lab puzzle I'll give them a... warm... mug of... hot cocoa. But you have to be critical: there's also stuff like the music puzzle, which consists of pressing a key, waiting, pressing two keys, waiting... and goes on and on. I guess a puzzle game speed run or non-speed run really depends on unusual solutions/glitches/stuff for becoming really appealing.

What do others have to say to that?
Now I did not know this thing about Dosbox and SDA. Well, looks like you have your ticket, Cat Wink

About the game, I've only played it once so I don't have any particular advice, but yeah I'd go for 100%. Don't really care if it is not as impressive as other runs out there (hard to compete on the "impressive" part with some extreme platformers), to me it is still entertaining.

Nothing else to add on the topic, so I wish you good luck!
I do have the GOG release, but the game still plays on my system with more lag than when I played on release year so I may need to mess with compatibility settings (something I assume wouldn't be breaking any rules since I don't modify configuration files for that).

In terms of the laboratory puzzle, that's more of a game against a notoriously difficult a single segment run would probably not include that for me at least. There's a strategy for it, but it's based a lot on luck as well.

The puzzles typically fall into three categories:
1. Games/Versus (lab puzzle)
2. Non-random (cans, chess, spiders, blocks, maze, grate, etc.)
3. Random (painting, picture, etc.) [note: 1 of these puzzles can be unsolvable and requires a reset of the puzzle to work]

A good portion of the puzzles in the game have optimized solutions to minimize # of clicks, though really I'm hoping to find some sort of useful glitch or skip that would make an any% run worth watching. If I find anything through playtesting over the next few weeks, I'll make sure to document it here. Apart from that, it would be 100% all the way.
Edit history:
HavocProdigy: 2015-04-28 07:24:50 pm
HavocProdigy: 2015-04-28 07:21:43 pm

Has anyone played the new remastered version of this?  I was considering running The 7th Guest as a bit of a laid-back speedrun later this year or early next year.  I've been playing this off and on for the past 20 years.  I even spent several days routing it back in January and created what appears to be a consistent microscope puzzle solution.  However, I've thought of a few problems which may arise.

1.) From what little I've seen from the remastered version on Android, it runs absurdly fast, making a legit comparison between the PC release and the Android release impossible.

2.) The game has been re-released several times and I'm kind of turned off by the idea of each version potentially running at different speeds.  Furthermore, one of the things that has often turned me off about PC speedrunning is the factor of computer speed assisting or hindering one's time.  However, if I did decide to do this run, I highly doubt that I'd ever have any competition in this game, as it's probably not a particularly interesting run for most people.

3.) True any% would skip 2 or 3 puzzles by visiting  the hintbook 3 times per puzzle to auto-solve them due to the length of the puzzles (in other words, it's actually faster to visit the hintbook 3 times to auto-solve them because the puzzles are that long).  However, this is boring and requires 0 skill.  Instead, I wanted to do an all-puzzles speedrun which would solve all 22 puzzles without auto-solving via the hintbook.  Unfortunately, 2 of the puzzles are insanely boring and take upwards of 10 minutes to complete (the knights in the bathroom and the piano puzzle in the music room).  That would equate to roughly 20 virtually unwatchable minutes out of a speedrun which I would imagine could end up being in the neighborhood of 75-80 minutes.

4.) The skill ceiling for this is pretty damn low because 18 of the 22 puzzles have fixed starting-points and solutions.  I suppose this COULD be viewed as a positive, as most of the work for this run would be in the routing.  I wouldn't be grinding out 1000's of attempts (and likely not even 100's).

5.) There are 4 RNG puzzles and 3 of them are late in the route which I devised.  I feel like the only difference between a pretty good time and a great time in this game would come down to the 4 RNG puzzles which are: The coffins in the Crypt (pretty easy but still random), Microscope in the lab (my printed-out solution seems to work virtually 100% of the time thus far), the sliding puzzle in the Doll Room (pure RNG hell), and the Stauf painting in the gallery (pure RNG hell).

The more I'm thinking about it, the less enthusiastic I've become about running this.  Furthermore, the sequel (The 11th) is virtually un-runnable for reasons which I'll only go into if anyone asks.

Edit history:
Judgy: 2015-04-29 12:58:41 am
Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.
I'd love to see a run of this game done.

Not sure about the difference in speed being a thing unless the "emulation" of the game runs at a completely different number of cycles, normally the only difference would be loading screens but 7th doesn't have any of them.

I'm not sure how skipping puzzles would be seen by people due to it kind of being a "cheat" rather than a "Glitch", but for the purpose of speed I would say skip the swapping knights. also I'm pretty sure the piano can be done quicker by simply playing the right order of notes WHILE the hand is "teaching" you the order, however this does still take some time.

Microscope puzzle is a optional puzzle (Doesn't unlock any other rooms or puzzles) so its basically do it if you want but for the sake of speed I'd skip it. If you are doing an all puzzles run then obviously do it.

Hows your routing of the cans in the pantry? I remember looking into doing this game as a speed run a while back and the cans were torture to try remember the optimal movements for haha.
I almost feel like this game hardly deserves more than one run anyway, so if I was to make the call, I'd say choose whatever approach gives the most watchable end result. Like you said there's probably not gonna be competition so I doubt there's gonna be conflicts. Sounds like using the hintbook to skip the slowest puzzles but completing the optional ones would make the most sense. Then it'd get categorized as just 100% I think. Ofc it's not commonly accepted to use the "auto-solve" features in games (like pressing alt-W to win at Monkey Island) but I think this could slip by.

As for versions, I almost recommend going for the fastest version, at least it makes you have to keep alert while navigating places thus making it more skill. Also what are we missing? In any case you are allowed to run any platform version of the game you prefer as per the rules. The timings aren't ever directly compared.
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HavocProdigy: 2015-04-29 08:08:05 pm
Thanks for the input.  I'll respond to some of the points brought up.

-I can't speak on behalf of the older re-releases but the new Android version is unbelievably fast.  I don't really have a video to reference, as there are very few videos on youtube of it so far.  However, I saw someone flying through the basement maze on stream a couple days ago at absurd speeds.  Android would absolutely be the fastest version but it's simply not something that I'd pursue.

-I think using the hintbook to autosolve puzzles looks pretty terrible in a casual playthrough and even worse in a speedrun.  I'm not entirely 100% sure on this, but the last time I played through this, it wasn't until I beat the game that I realized that I never solved the front door puzzle (the spiders).  This is odd because I've always thought that all 22 puzzles had to be solved in some capacity, even if you used the hintbook.  Skipping any of the puzzles really hinders any interest I likely still have in running this.

-I haven't timed it but I'm pretty sure my microscope puzzle solution would be faster than visiting the hintbook 3 times to auto-solve it.  My solution consists of ~34 moves and can be done fairly quickly.

-It's funny that you bring up the cans puzzle.  The solution I have in my old strategy guide does it in 17 moves.  I spent some time trying to come up with a slightly faster solution but didn't come up with anything.  Along the same lines, the fastest solution in my strat guide, as well as all of the solutions I found online, solve the bathroom knights puzzle in a lengthy and tedious 58 moves.  However, the strategy guide says something along the lines of "this is solvable in 36 moves" which would be unbelievably faster.  However, I can't find a solution faster than the 58 move solution anywhere.

-LotBlind, I agree.  There's absolutely no need for more than 1 category for this.  I'd either do any% and skip a couple puzzles (not enthusiastic about this option) or all 22 puzzles.  I have zero desire to do both.  I'm pretty sure both would have somewhat unwatchable moments.  Any% would involve visiting the hint book a total of 6 times to skip 2 puzzles.  100% would involve two roughly 10 minute puzzles that are super boring.

-I'm not getting another version so if I did this run, I'm doing it on the original PC release.  Android is out of the question for me.  In The 11th Hour, you can right click during every single navigation animation to skip it which would be super annoying.  You don't have that option in The 7th Guest but everything I've seen from the Android version runs way faster thus far.
boring puzzles vs hint book: Maybe we can think of this as the grinding segment of a JRPG run Smiley
Haha.  I agree.  After putting a lot of thought into it, I think I'm going to pass on putting together a run of this.  I just don't think it would make for a particularly fun speedrun to watch or to put together.  However, on the off chance that someone does want to do this run, I would be more than happy to share my extensive knowledge of this game and the routing stuff that I came up with.  Thanks for the responses/thoughts.
Hey dude you know what you could do? It's always a bad idea to hoard knowledge. Instead you could start a strategy guide for the game (it's very simple) and chuck it all up in there, to use an unnecessary and unpleasant metaphor.
There's a link up top for how to create a new page.

Seeing as you have a route laid out you might wanna put that in a sub-page for a category called "all puzzles" and write about the individual puzzles in a "tricks and glitches" sub-page. You can basically nick the structure from any existing guide, for example this one:
and edit it appropriately.

If you have any questions (which I doubt) I'll gladly help.
Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.
heck if you share what you know I might give it a run or two Tongue
Edit history:
HavocProdigy: 2015-05-06 11:26:33 pm
I was going to type out a really long post with my route/notes.  Rather than do that, I'm going to put together a highlight on stream of a speedy playthrough.  I tried to do it tonight and had to quit at the bathroom knights puzzle because the solution that I was referring to had a couple of mistakes in it.  I found my accurate solution so I should be good to go now.

I encountered a really awful glitch in my fast playthrough attempt tonight that has happened to me a few times before.  After solving the crypt puzzle, the puzzle simply restarts and you have to solve it again.  I've never been able to figure out what causes it but it's at least a full minute down the drain when that happens.

Edit: I haven't forgotten about this.  I will get to it later this month or early next month.  I've been sidetracked with a few things but I will post a video of a fast playthrough/potential route in the near future.