Time to Slam Jam
**This thread will focus on Mann vs Machine as Jump Map speedrunning can be found at http://tf2jump.com/ **
Mann Vs Machine is a 6 player co-op game mode that forces you to face off hordes of robots. Though described as an horde mode, the speedrun of this mode is actually very different then the casual version as there is two big differences. First, being that each wave has downtime you can usually relax and buy upgrades to ready yourself for the next one. Of course in the speedrunning perspective this is not a option and passing up the downtime allows you to speed up the waves. The second aspect that makes this a speedrun, is by optimizing the DPS (damage per second) done to robots. The faster you kill the robot the faster the waves becoming between each interval. A good example of this is looking at the level "Caliginous Caper" by killing the bots too fast, you will cause a sequence break that skips waves of enemies later on.
Since this speedrun relies on 6 players, it also comes down to which classes are present. Class comp varies on each map as each one provides specific/mandatory roles.
Heavy - Heavy has the highest DPS in the game against every bot with the exception to "Tanks". The class plays strictly as DPS with utility with Rage and Projectile reflect. Heavies will also be great medic buddies when it comes to tanking giants and dealing damage via kritzkrieg/canteens
Scout - The class with the most important role in MvM as the cash mule. Scout's ability with wider cash grab and health per cash which allows you stack HP to become less reliable on resistances. Cash being a huge divider for most maps as it allows you to increase upgrades = more DPS/survival. Scout has low DPS then most classes but he also touts the best utility in the game when combining Mad Milk and Fan of War to control specific giants and provide extra damage. Dying as scout is not a issue as his respawn time is non-existent allowing him to get back to collecting cash or applying the Milk/Fan combo.
Soldier - Next to Heavy, Soldier is one of the best damage classes you can play as. Soldier's weapon of choice here will be Beggar's Bazooka with it's insane firing rate vs the DPS you would otherwise get from the Direct hit (check the damage comparison in the links below). Buff Banner/Battalion's Back-up are good options for extra protection or more DPS as mini-crits can be constant with well-placed shots. Soldier can use his rocket jumping to clutch or cover more distance when bomb carriers get past the initial hold area.
Demoman - Demo is similar to Soldier as he is another viable choice for damage but lacks supporting qualities. The upside with Demo is that he can control waves by using his sticky launcher to pick out medic bots or going for huge burst damage on single giants. Both Loch/Scottish Resistance are good weapons for demos. Demoknights are still questionable off-classes as they have some advantages but suffer when it comes to crit waves or "Tanks". Keeping in mind as well, Demo has mobility with sticky jumping to cover areas or distance quickly.
Medic - A class that was previously saw as useless before the Two Cities update due to lacking any real power in matches. With the recent addition of the shield/revival the classes can provide much more then just kritzkrieg as even it rivals the scout's Milk/Fan combo. Medic will usually be playing as support to provide Crits to speed up bot kills and also provides protection with the shield for classes such as Heavy and Pyro to get in to deal damage. The medic also can use his canteen to provide both ubers/kritz at the same time to make their patient god-like for a short time.
Engineer - Very heavy support class that provides his team with mobility with 2-way teleporters, ammo for Soldiers/Heavies, and crowd control with Sentries. Engies will be consider to be fast to react and be able to pay attention to the biggest threat to them: Sentry busters. Though dealing with Busters can be annoying, well placed and timed busters can TK bots leading to some useful time spent running from the busters. Consider using Rescue Ranger or Widowmaker for either Mobility or DPS. Repair canteens are incredibility handy when getting a new gun up or using kritz to speed up the DPS of your lvl 3 gun. Wrangler is also a must as short circuit can be replaced by a medic's shield for projectile protection, while also increasing the firing rate of the gun vs non-wrangled gun in terms of DPS.
Pyro - A class that does great on specific maps when using airblast. Pyro has very niche roles as his primary should be default when considering degreaser is lacking DPS, and backburner can get great damage from the back but incredibly risky without proper positioning or uber canteens. Although Phlog has no airblast it makes up on the fact it allows Pyro to solo "Tanks" with constant critz. Pyro's true strength though in the end will be his ability to control bots with his airblast as well as stalling giants such as Super Scouts. Pyro can somewhat fill the role of the scout but can only really do this if he/she upgrades crit resistances over general upgrades in the flamethrower (ammo/airblast will always be the first upgrades to grab).
Sniper - Similar to Pyro, Sniper is very niche when it comes to maps. Though he thrives in Endurance maps like "Caliginous Caper" or "Mech Mutilation" since waves come in groups allowing him to deal massive AoE damage via headshots. When picking a Sniper though consider how many headshots you've done as bodyshots will not deal AoE and your jarate will not be a bad secondary if scout is not present. Despite all that reasoning though, Sniper is not always recommended with newer players as this class require constant headshots to be on par with his fellow teammates. It also goes without saying you will not be able to contribute much damage to "Tanks" with rifles or SMGs.
Spy - Sadly, the class that truly gets hit the hardest in terms of being useless is the Spy. Spy is a class that can semi-cash mule with disguises though his only offensive abilities are backstabbing or sapping. His backstabbing when upgraded is huge as it almost pairs with Heavy's minigun DPS. Though this is quickly ignored due to the bots having quick reaction. Spy's sapper is his most power asset as it allows him to lock down sets of bots for a period of time allow his team to clean up, IE medics and their combos. The sapper suffers from one huge draw back though, it's cooldown is painfully long enough to make it not viable in harder maps in MvM. Dead Ringer is the watch to consider if you do plan on using spy as it makes backstabbing safer. In the long term though unless they change the class or weapons, other classes will fill this role much more better such as Demo for crowd control, Heavy for dps, and scout for cash-mule.
That was just a general/simple point for each class. In-game there is much more to do then what is written here and actual runs can be tense as one mistake can cost the team the run by seconds or the entire round.
The following links will take you to MvM speedrun time for each map that has been completed by a team of runners, and another that will show you stats for class comp, damage, and more.
MvM speedrun records/Map info -> http://goo.gl/rc3anb
Made by Seckswrecks
Player preference/Comp/Damage/Loadouts -> http://goo.gl/k9uwC7
Made/Worked on by Naegleria
Steam group for MvM speedrunning -> http://goo.gl/IwyDNU
There is more to add to the start post of this thread, but I'll will add more in time such as a demonstration video for those new or those confused.
Mann Vs Machine is a 6 player co-op game mode that forces you to face off hordes of robots. Though described as an horde mode, the speedrun of this mode is actually very different then the casual version as there is two big differences. First, being that each wave has downtime you can usually relax and buy upgrades to ready yourself for the next one. Of course in the speedrunning perspective this is not a option and passing up the downtime allows you to speed up the waves. The second aspect that makes this a speedrun, is by optimizing the DPS (damage per second) done to robots. The faster you kill the robot the faster the waves becoming between each interval. A good example of this is looking at the level "Caliginous Caper" by killing the bots too fast, you will cause a sequence break that skips waves of enemies later on.
Since this speedrun relies on 6 players, it also comes down to which classes are present. Class comp varies on each map as each one provides specific/mandatory roles.
Heavy - Heavy has the highest DPS in the game against every bot with the exception to "Tanks". The class plays strictly as DPS with utility with Rage and Projectile reflect. Heavies will also be great medic buddies when it comes to tanking giants and dealing damage via kritzkrieg/canteens
Scout - The class with the most important role in MvM as the cash mule. Scout's ability with wider cash grab and health per cash which allows you stack HP to become less reliable on resistances. Cash being a huge divider for most maps as it allows you to increase upgrades = more DPS/survival. Scout has low DPS then most classes but he also touts the best utility in the game when combining Mad Milk and Fan of War to control specific giants and provide extra damage. Dying as scout is not a issue as his respawn time is non-existent allowing him to get back to collecting cash or applying the Milk/Fan combo.
Soldier - Next to Heavy, Soldier is one of the best damage classes you can play as. Soldier's weapon of choice here will be Beggar's Bazooka with it's insane firing rate vs the DPS you would otherwise get from the Direct hit (check the damage comparison in the links below). Buff Banner/Battalion's Back-up are good options for extra protection or more DPS as mini-crits can be constant with well-placed shots. Soldier can use his rocket jumping to clutch or cover more distance when bomb carriers get past the initial hold area.
Demoman - Demo is similar to Soldier as he is another viable choice for damage but lacks supporting qualities. The upside with Demo is that he can control waves by using his sticky launcher to pick out medic bots or going for huge burst damage on single giants. Both Loch/Scottish Resistance are good weapons for demos. Demoknights are still questionable off-classes as they have some advantages but suffer when it comes to crit waves or "Tanks". Keeping in mind as well, Demo has mobility with sticky jumping to cover areas or distance quickly.
Medic - A class that was previously saw as useless before the Two Cities update due to lacking any real power in matches. With the recent addition of the shield/revival the classes can provide much more then just kritzkrieg as even it rivals the scout's Milk/Fan combo. Medic will usually be playing as support to provide Crits to speed up bot kills and also provides protection with the shield for classes such as Heavy and Pyro to get in to deal damage. The medic also can use his canteen to provide both ubers/kritz at the same time to make their patient god-like for a short time.
Engineer - Very heavy support class that provides his team with mobility with 2-way teleporters, ammo for Soldiers/Heavies, and crowd control with Sentries. Engies will be consider to be fast to react and be able to pay attention to the biggest threat to them: Sentry busters. Though dealing with Busters can be annoying, well placed and timed busters can TK bots leading to some useful time spent running from the busters. Consider using Rescue Ranger or Widowmaker for either Mobility or DPS. Repair canteens are incredibility handy when getting a new gun up or using kritz to speed up the DPS of your lvl 3 gun. Wrangler is also a must as short circuit can be replaced by a medic's shield for projectile protection, while also increasing the firing rate of the gun vs non-wrangled gun in terms of DPS.
Pyro - A class that does great on specific maps when using airblast. Pyro has very niche roles as his primary should be default when considering degreaser is lacking DPS, and backburner can get great damage from the back but incredibly risky without proper positioning or uber canteens. Although Phlog has no airblast it makes up on the fact it allows Pyro to solo "Tanks" with constant critz. Pyro's true strength though in the end will be his ability to control bots with his airblast as well as stalling giants such as Super Scouts. Pyro can somewhat fill the role of the scout but can only really do this if he/she upgrades crit resistances over general upgrades in the flamethrower (ammo/airblast will always be the first upgrades to grab).
Sniper - Similar to Pyro, Sniper is very niche when it comes to maps. Though he thrives in Endurance maps like "Caliginous Caper" or "Mech Mutilation" since waves come in groups allowing him to deal massive AoE damage via headshots. When picking a Sniper though consider how many headshots you've done as bodyshots will not deal AoE and your jarate will not be a bad secondary if scout is not present. Despite all that reasoning though, Sniper is not always recommended with newer players as this class require constant headshots to be on par with his fellow teammates. It also goes without saying you will not be able to contribute much damage to "Tanks" with rifles or SMGs.
Spy - Sadly, the class that truly gets hit the hardest in terms of being useless is the Spy. Spy is a class that can semi-cash mule with disguises though his only offensive abilities are backstabbing or sapping. His backstabbing when upgraded is huge as it almost pairs with Heavy's minigun DPS. Though this is quickly ignored due to the bots having quick reaction. Spy's sapper is his most power asset as it allows him to lock down sets of bots for a period of time allow his team to clean up, IE medics and their combos. The sapper suffers from one huge draw back though, it's cooldown is painfully long enough to make it not viable in harder maps in MvM. Dead Ringer is the watch to consider if you do plan on using spy as it makes backstabbing safer. In the long term though unless they change the class or weapons, other classes will fill this role much more better such as Demo for crowd control, Heavy for dps, and scout for cash-mule.
That was just a general/simple point for each class. In-game there is much more to do then what is written here and actual runs can be tense as one mistake can cost the team the run by seconds or the entire round.
The following links will take you to MvM speedrun time for each map that has been completed by a team of runners, and another that will show you stats for class comp, damage, and more.
MvM speedrun records/Map info -> http://goo.gl/rc3anb
Made by Seckswrecks
Player preference/Comp/Damage/Loadouts -> http://goo.gl/k9uwC7
Made/Worked on by Naegleria
Steam group for MvM speedrunning -> http://goo.gl/IwyDNU
There is more to add to the start post of this thread, but I'll will add more in time such as a demonstration video for those new or those confused.
Thread title: