Tales of Vesperia [Xbox 360]

2009-04-27 01:47:37 am

Retired

Curious what your estimated time is (saw your segments are up to 3 hour mark). The live leaderboard has the best legit time at 7:19 I believe. Since this is New Game+, and from what I've seen, shouldn't the primary focus be on Rita? She should have all the skills activated that you use to abuse her Tidal Wave grade farm trick, right (speed and chain casting)? That way it's like virtually no casting time, especially when you have that one ability that if you tap B you speed it up (using it in succession with that other OVL skill that does speedcasting takes skill, though, to not break the spam casting). What about the 2X experience item on top of the 10x experience? Does that just make it 12X for that character, or does it take the 10X you receive in a battle and DOUBLE that? That item doesn't seem to do much to Rita in ways of restricting her, especially when you have the 1SP skill activated.

peteyboo

2009-04-27 12:25:04 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

You can only choose one of the 2X, 10X, 1/2X or Combo EXP. At least assuming Vesperia is no different than all the others.

I really want to get this game... I don't want to watch the run until I at the very least beat that part ;_; Too bad I can't buy it until at least this summer.

mpeebs97

2009-04-27 05:16:41 pm

I believe he talking about the Demon's Seal which increases EXP by 2X, the only problem with this is that it will give you physical ailments which would hinder our game play and actually make the run slower.

As for our estimated time, we actually did a 4-player run of this game over Christmas Break but about 2/3 of the way in I/we realized that Rita was not equipped with her best equips since the beginning of Heliord (it auto changed her things back to what she would have equipped in a NG run) and thus ruining the run. In this run I finished the game by myself as best and fast as I could and obtained a time of 7:43:10 and this is the last 1/3 of the game by myself. I calculated that I need to beat the best time on the leader boards by 00:17:24 and we currently have shaved this time to 00:15:29 (through segment 14).

As for shaving of as much time as we can, We are definetly doing this considering if we can shave off 5 seconds of a segment, I will redue it til we have and for battles, I will make sure its close to the fastest time that we have beaten that boss/battle in (whether its 5 seconds to half a second). I am doing this because I need to shave off 00:17:24 and I know every second is going to matter.

Sadly enough this is a faster run than the 4-player run we did and so far and for the most part, so are the battles.

I believe he talking about the Demon's Seal which increases EXP by 2X, the only problem with this is that it will give you physical ailments which would hinder our game play and actually make the run slower.

As for our estimated time, we actually did a 4-player run of this game over Christmas Break but about 2/3 of the way in I/we realized that Rita was not equipped with her best equips since the beginning of Heliord (it auto changed her things back to what she would have equipped in a NG run) and thus ruining the run. In this run I finished the game by myself as best and fast as I could and obtained a time of 7:43:10 and this is the last 1/3 of the game by myself. I calculated that I need to beat the best time on the leader boards by 00:17:24 and we currently have shaved this time to 00:15:29 (through segment 14).

As for shaving of as much time as we can, We are definetly doing this considering if we can shave off 5 seconds of a segment, I will redue it til we have and for battles, I will make sure its close to the fastest time that we have beaten that boss/battle in (whether its 5 seconds to half a second). I am doing this because I need to shave off 00:17:24 and I know every second is going to matter.

Sadly enough this is a faster run than the 4-player run we did and so far and for the most part, so are the battles.

Eternalspirit

2009-04-27 05:30:57 pm

Have you ever considered anything about optimal LS button presses for Ba'ul? I'm more curious than anything else about that. It could make a difference.

mpeebs97

2009-04-27 11:00:08 pm

Well we haven't gotten to Ba'ul yet, and I have never really had a problem with hitting the LS and Ba'ul not coming up, but I will keep it in mind when we do. It might shave off a couple of seconds if I get it on the first try every time, but that is all.

Eternalspirit

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2009-04-28 01:31:58 pm

2009-04-28 01:10:33 pm

Quote from mpeebs97:

Well we haven't gotten to Ba'ul yet, and I have never really had a problem with hitting the LS and Ba'ul not coming up, but I will keep it in mind when we do. It might shave off a couple of seconds if I get it on the first try every time, but that is all.

Yeah, I wasn't really expecting much more than that. Still, it helps. Are you using Fatal Strikes at all? I think Blue Fatal strikes might be worthwhile if you control Yuri and spam his Shining Fang and Shining Fang spinoffs (keep in mind the more hits = the more chances to crit, although that does mean more time wasted with a longer attack). Thinking about it, I guess any of the single hit attacks that are reliable would be much more useful (Destruction Field, Crushing Eagle). Final Gale might be valuable too (it hits like a truck). I'm just really kinda curious about these things. By the way, did you keep any of Yuri's elemental weapons? Hitting a weakness deals something like double damage, so re-equipping a weapon to hit an elemental weakness on a boss is insanely useful (as well as optimizing Rita's spell usage). Just some more things to think about I guess.

[quote="mpeebs97"]
Well we haven't gotten to Ba'ul yet, and I have never really had a problem with hitting the LS and Ba'ul not coming up, but I will keep it in mind when we do. It might shave off a couple of seconds if I get it on the first try every time, but that is all.
[/quote]

Yeah, I wasn't really expecting much more than that. Still, it helps. Are you using Fatal Strikes at all? I think Blue Fatal strikes might be worthwhile if you control Yuri and spam his Shining Fang and Shining Fang spinoffs (keep in mind the more hits = the more chances to crit, although that does mean more time wasted with a longer attack). Thinking about it, I guess any of the single hit attacks that are reliable would be much more useful (Destruction Field, Crushing Eagle). Final Gale might be valuable too (it hits like a truck). I'm just really kinda curious about these things. By the way, did you keep any of Yuri's elemental weapons? Hitting a weakness deals something like double damage, so re-equipping a weapon to hit an elemental weakness on a boss is insanely useful (as well as optimizing Rita's spell usage). Just some more things to think about I guess.

mpeebs97

2009-04-28 02:04:48 pm

Why didn't you post all of this stuff before we started the run?

I sold all of Yuri's weapons that I could before I started the run. The only ones I have left are Last Fencer and Claiomh Solais (this is for Khroma because she is light and so is the Last Fencer).

As for the artes that you described. All of the artes that we use were tested by me or Michael to be the most powerful for that character / artes that wouldn't knock them in the air. This is why we don't use Judith.

Eternalspirit

2009-04-28 02:37:55 pm

Uh, I only started posting again here like 3 days ago. Sorry. Sad

If you guys are willing to do it, it's pretty easy to obtain Yuri's elemental weapons, you can pretty much speed through the game and still get them. The primary ones are Last Fencer (light), and the Meteorite Blade (fire, wind). There are others, but they are substantially weaker, although in a normal mode run where enemy defense is substantially lower than in higher difficulties, the lower attack power may actually be offset by the double damage by hitting a weakness. The Meteorite Blade is the only really important one, because there are a decent amount of bosses weak to fire, and it has attack power comparable to the Last Fencer.

Karol also has some elemental weapon options (Rending Drill Hammer is fire and earth, I think, and the Golden Hammer is fire and something).

If you want, I can scope out which enemies you'd be fighting (namely bosses), and get a table of weaknesses and strengths, and that way it would give you guys something else to plan around for boss fights. I can also find out which weapons would be worth getting.

This is all, of course, if you guys are willing to go out of your way to grab the extra weapons. (I'll probably end up doing it anyways for future considerations)

Do you have an instant messaging contact that I could keep in touch with you with? I'm actually quite interested in working with you guys in whatever way I can to help with the run.

Uh, I only started posting again here like 3 days ago. Sorry. :(

If you guys are willing to do it, it's pretty easy to obtain Yuri's elemental weapons, you can pretty much speed through the game and still get them. The primary ones are Last Fencer (light), and the Meteorite Blade (fire, wind). There are others, but they are substantially weaker, although in a normal mode run where enemy defense is substantially lower than in higher difficulties, the lower attack power may actually be offset by the double damage by hitting a weakness. The Meteorite Blade is the only really important one, because there are a decent amount of bosses weak to fire, and it has attack power comparable to the Last Fencer.

Karol also has some elemental weapon options (Rending Drill Hammer is fire and earth, I think, and the Golden Hammer is fire and something).

If you want, I can scope out which enemies you'd be fighting (namely bosses), and get a table of weaknesses and strengths, and that way it would give you guys something else to plan around for boss fights. I can also find out which weapons would be worth getting.

This is all, of course, if you guys are willing to go out of your way to grab the extra weapons. (I'll probably end up doing it anyways for future considerations)

Do you have an instant messaging contact that I could keep in touch with you with? I'm actually quite interested in working with you guys in whatever way I can to help with the run.

mpeebs97

2009-04-28 06:38:49 pm

Well, we are 14 segments into the run. At this point, we are currently trying to beat our old run times (which are difficult to do). Each segment we did probably took about 3-5 hours each and I know one of those segments took 2 days to get one that I liked.

All of the battles that will take the longest, we have Rita doing most of the damage, so having Yuri doing a little extra damage, I don't think, will cut any considerable time off. I think the slowest battle I had was 40 seconds and that's because I was trying to control Yuri and Rita at the same time, this is when we decided that I would finish the run by myself to see if we could still beat the online time.

I personally don't think it's worth restarting the run again. I think we will beat that online time on the path we are going. If you know any other tricks or glitches that I don't know, please let me know because I don't know any... that I can think of right now.

Eternalspirit

2009-04-28 08:51:31 pm

I do have one trick. Gold Cat.

Overlimit -> Spam Gold Cat on very large bosses, it will hit over 100 times PER CAST, doing AT LEAST 60-100k damage in a matter of seconds. See if that helps any at all.

If you do this, make sure Rita is using a Wonder Symbol so that she can cast the instant the last one goes off.

mpeebs97

2009-04-28 11:02:09 pm

I have heard of that one, but I figured Tidal Wave was still better. I will try it now that you have said it, when we get to the first big boss that is. That more than likely will be Belius perhaps. There really aren't that many big bosses, but I will keep that in mind.

Eternalspirit

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2009-04-29 07:53:27 am

2009-04-29 06:26:37 am

The ones I can think of are Belius, Gusios, the Golem in Shaikos Ruins, one of the two Breakers outside of Nordopolica (one absorbs fire, the other absorbs water, so you'll need to be very careful, since Gold Cat is Fire/Earth), Khroma (but she resists like every damn element except Dark and something else), Baitojoh. Duke form 2 is a possibility, since he flies, so the coins might actually hit him pretty well.

One other thing - would it perhaps be useful to kill the Giganto Monsters that are kind of along the way for more experience points? They give I think 120,000 each with 10x experience, so I imagine that would add up to a decent amount of levels in a speed run. The ones I can think of are Poseidon (Zaude), Pterobronc (Mt. Temza), Hermit Crab (Weasand of Cados), POSSIBLY Brucis (Egothor Forest), although he might be a little bit far out of the way, the Medusa Butterfly (Sands of Kogorh), and Fenrir (Erulemean Crystallands, although this guy probably really suffers from being way too out of the way). If the levels you would get wouldn't get you enough useful skill points, then it's probably not worth it (unless you gained like 10 levels or something ridiculous like that), but if you were a few SP away from getting some important skills at the time you run into one, I would think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

The ones I can think of are Belius, Gusios, the Golem in Shaikos Ruins, one of the two Breakers outside of Nordopolica (one absorbs fire, the other absorbs water, so you'll need to be very careful, since Gold Cat is Fire/Earth), Khroma (but she resists like every damn element except Dark and something else), Baitojoh. Duke form 2 is a possibility, since he flies, so the coins might actually hit him pretty well.

One other thing - would it perhaps be useful to kill the Giganto Monsters that are kind of along the way for more experience points? They give I think 120,000 each with 10x experience, so I imagine that would add up to a decent amount of levels in a speed run. The ones I can think of are Poseidon (Zaude), Pterobronc (Mt. Temza), Hermit Crab (Weasand of Cados), POSSIBLY Brucis (Egothor Forest), although he might be a little bit far out of the way, the Medusa Butterfly (Sands of Kogorh), and Fenrir (Erulemean Crystallands, although this guy probably really suffers from being way too out of the way). If the levels you would get wouldn't get you enough useful skill points, then it's probably not worth it (unless you gained like 10 levels or something ridiculous like that), but if you were a few SP away from getting some important skills at the time you run into one, I would think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

mpeebs97

2009-04-29 09:50:58 am

Quote:

but if you were a few SP away from getting some important skills at the time you run into one, I would think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Well we are doing a NG+ run so I have already equipped all the necessary skills that we will need for the whole run (if I understand this correctly).

As for using gold cat on Duke, I personally think that he moves around too much for it to hit him enough. I personally think that Tidal Wave would be more effective, but we will see when we get to him. As for Goliath, we already passed him and if you see the Youtube on that fight, we beat him in 3.5 seconds so I don't think Gold Cat would have helped. For those two outbreakers in front of Nordipolica, I just have Rita go OL and instantly cast Tidal Wave and Meteor Storm alternating between each one (In the first run I defeated them in 19.85 seconds and that was by myself just using Rita and no other character). But like I said I will try and use Gold Cat on all the bosses and see which move is faster for that particular boss.

As for running into giganto monsters, I have looked at this already with the old run and you just don't gain enough physical attack boosts to make any difference and it is about 30 secs out of the way (this is with the walking and battling and scenes afterwards and before). I tried this with the Butterfly in the desert and he wasn't out of the way at all. The funny thing is if I can remember correctly I gained about 7-8 levels I think at the time.

[quote]but if you were a few SP away from getting some important skills at the time you run into one, I would think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.[/quote]

Well we are doing a NG+ run so I have already equipped all the necessary skills that we will need for the whole run (if I understand this correctly).

As for using gold cat on Duke, I personally think that he moves around too much for it to hit him enough. I personally think that Tidal Wave would be more effective, but we will see when we get to him. As for Goliath, we already passed him and if you see the Youtube on that fight, we beat him in 3.5 seconds so I don't think Gold Cat would have helped. For those two outbreakers in front of Nordipolica, I just have Rita go OL and instantly cast Tidal Wave and Meteor Storm alternating between each one (In the first run I defeated them in 19.85 seconds and that was by myself just using Rita and no other character). But like I said I will try and use Gold Cat on all the bosses and see which move is faster for that particular boss.

As for running into giganto monsters, I have looked at this already with the old run and you just don't gain enough physical attack boosts to make any difference and it is about 30 secs out of the way (this is with the walking and battling and scenes afterwards and before). I tried this with the Butterfly in the desert and he wasn't out of the way at all. The funny thing is if I can remember correctly I gained about 7-8 levels I think at the time.

Eternalspirit

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2009-04-29 10:54:20 am

2009-04-29 10:36:51 am

Quote from mpeebs97:

Quote:

but if you were a few SP away from getting some important skills at the time you run into one, I would think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Well we are doing a NG+ run so I have already equipped all the necessary skills that we will need for the whole run (if I understand this correctly).

As for using gold cat on Duke, I personally think that he moves around too much for it to hit him enough. I personally think that Tidal Wave would be more effective, but we will see when we get to him. As for Goliath, we already passed him and if you see the Youtube on that fight, we beat him in 3.5 seconds so I don't think Gold Cat would have helped. For those two outbreakers in front of Nordipolica, I just have Rita go OL and instantly cast Tidal Wave and Meteor Storm alternating between each one (In the first run I defeated them in 19.85 seconds and that was by myself just using Rita and no other character). But like I said I will try and use Gold Cat on all the bosses and see which move is faster for that particular boss.

As for running into giganto monsters, I have looked at this already with the old run and you just don't gain enough physical attack boosts to make any difference and it is about 30 secs out of the way (this is with the walking and battling and scenes afterwards and before). I tried this with the Butterfly in the desert and he wasn't out of the way at all. The funny thing is if I can remember correctly I gained about 7-8 levels I think at the time.

Mmm.. do you not need to re-equip the skills since you wouldn't have enough skill points at level 1 to equip everything? I watched the first few segments of the run on youtube and I noticed that you did go into the menu to equip skills. Really, I think other than the Sands of Kogohr Giganto Monster, unless you happen to need more SP for whatever reason and you are close to a Giganto Monster, that guarantees you a decent amount of levels for more SP. I don't think the level up bonuses would help as much, but it's something worth looking at in any case. I guess a better question would be, which skills are absolutely necessary for the speed run? I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear your opinion.

I think Tidal Wave on the Nordopolica Breakers is a mistake. Rita is strong with hitting multiple enemies because of it, but you'll effectively be limiting yourself to hitting only one monster at a time (Tidal Wave will heal whatever damage Meteor Storm did to the water absorbing Breaker). I think it would be more useful to either spam Meteor Storm, or just focus on one of them with Rita, while Yuri keeps the other busy (you could pick either one, but if Yuri had a Meteorite Blade, you could have him take a good chunk out of the water weak one while Rita uses something like Spiral Flare or Gold Cat on the fire weak one). I think you could MAYBE cut the time of that battle in half with this strategy, but I'm not sure. It's looking like it would be better to kill the fire weak one first so you could use Tidal Wave on the other one.

As for Duke, yeah, you might be right, but with 2 players, you could combo-lock him with Yuri while Rita spams Gold Cat on him. It would only be worthwhile if all the coins actually hit Duke though. Otherwise, yeah, I would just use Tidal Wave (I don't even think he has any particular weaknesses to exploit).

Actually, on that note, I'm going to post a list of bosses and their elemental weaknesses, just to have a quick reference list.

I know, to begin with, that all the forced encounters at the Manor of the Wicked, and any of the Leviathan's Claw enemies, are all weak to light, strong to dark.
Zagi's first three forms are weak to water, strong to fire. The last 4 have no elemental affinities.
The Flynn duel in Aurnion, he resists wind and holy in that fight, so that makes the Last Fencer worthless for that one. No weaknesses.
Rhybgaro is weak to dark, strong to holy.
Gattuso is weak to fire, strong to wind.
Belius resists wind, water and holy (ouch, no Last Fencer OR Tidal Wave). No weaknesses. Gold Cat = perfect for this fight, heh.
Pteropus resists wind, water and dark (another Gold Cat candidate). His bats are weak to holy, strong against wind and dark. Pteropus is also weak to holy.
The Outbreaker (Sands of Kogohr) is weak to water, strong to fire.
The Daybreaker is weak to water, ABSORBS fire. The Nightbreaker is opposite. (Nordopolica fight)
Gusios.. oh boy. Weak to fire and wind (if only Thunder Blade wasn't so bad for speed runs), strong to earth, water, holy and dark. No Last Fencer or Tidal Wave, indeed, this is gonna be a Meteor Storm fight maybe. The Meteorite Blade would be AMAZING here too (fire wind element). Especially since you fight him twice.
Gigalarva weak to fire, holy and dark, resists earth, wind and water. No Tidal Wave again.
Khroma Dragon is weak to earth and dark, strong to fire, wind and holy.

The rest that I didn't list I either missed or don't have any resistances or weaknesses.

Yeah.. that's a lot to think about, I think.

[quote="mpeebs97"]
[quote]but if you were a few SP away from getting some important skills at the time you run into one, I would think it wouldn't be a terrible idea.[/quote]

Well we are doing a NG+ run so I have already equipped all the necessary skills that we will need for the whole run (if I understand this correctly).

As for using gold cat on Duke, I personally think that he moves around too much for it to hit him enough. I personally think that Tidal Wave would be more effective, but we will see when we get to him. As for Goliath, we already passed him and if you see the Youtube on that fight, we beat him in 3.5 seconds so I don't think Gold Cat would have helped. For those two outbreakers in front of Nordipolica, I just have Rita go OL and instantly cast Tidal Wave and Meteor Storm alternating between each one (In the first run I defeated them in 19.85 seconds and that was by myself just using Rita and no other character). But like I said I will try and use Gold Cat on all the bosses and see which move is faster for that particular boss.

As for running into giganto monsters, I have looked at this already with the old run and you just don't gain enough physical attack boosts to make any difference and it is about 30 secs out of the way (this is with the walking and battling and scenes afterwards and before). I tried this with the Butterfly in the desert and he wasn't out of the way at all. The funny thing is if I can remember correctly I gained about 7-8 levels I think at the time.
[/quote]

Mmm.. do you not need to re-equip the skills since you wouldn't have enough skill points at level 1 to equip everything? I watched the first few segments of the run on youtube and I noticed that you did go into the menu to equip skills. Really, I think other than the Sands of Kogohr Giganto Monster, unless you happen to need more SP for whatever reason and you are close to a Giganto Monster, that guarantees you a decent amount of levels for more SP. I don't think the level up bonuses would help as much, but it's something worth looking at in any case. I guess a better question would be, which skills are absolutely necessary for the speed run? I have my own ideas, but I'd like to hear your opinion.

I think Tidal Wave on the Nordopolica Breakers is a mistake. Rita is strong with hitting multiple enemies because of it, but you'll effectively be limiting yourself to hitting only one monster at a time (Tidal Wave will heal whatever damage Meteor Storm did to the water absorbing Breaker). I think it would be more useful to either spam Meteor Storm, or just focus on one of them with Rita, while Yuri keeps the other busy (you could pick either one, but if Yuri had a Meteorite Blade, you could have him take a good chunk out of the water weak one while Rita uses something like Spiral Flare or Gold Cat on the fire weak one). I think you could MAYBE cut the time of that battle in half with this strategy, but I'm not sure. It's looking like it would be better to kill the fire weak one first so you could use Tidal Wave on the other one.

As for Duke, yeah, you might be right, but with 2 players, you could combo-lock him with Yuri while Rita spams Gold Cat on him. It would only be worthwhile if all the coins actually hit Duke though. Otherwise, yeah, I would just use Tidal Wave (I don't even think he has any particular weaknesses to exploit).

Actually, on that note, I'm going to post a list of bosses and their elemental weaknesses, just to have a quick reference list.

I know, to begin with, that all the forced encounters at the Manor of the Wicked, and any of the Leviathan's Claw enemies, are all weak to light, strong to dark.
Zagi's first three forms are weak to water, strong to fire. The last 4 have no elemental affinities.
The Flynn duel in Aurnion, he resists wind and holy in that fight, so that makes the Last Fencer worthless for that one. No weaknesses.
Rhybgaro is weak to dark, strong to holy.
Gattuso is weak to fire, strong to wind.
Belius resists wind, water and holy (ouch, no Last Fencer OR Tidal Wave). No weaknesses. Gold Cat = perfect for this fight, heh.
Pteropus resists wind, water and dark (another Gold Cat candidate). His bats are weak to holy, strong against wind and dark. Pteropus is also weak to holy.
The Outbreaker (Sands of Kogohr) is weak to water, strong to fire.
The Daybreaker is weak to water, ABSORBS fire. The Nightbreaker is opposite. (Nordopolica fight)
Gusios.. oh boy. Weak to fire and wind (if only Thunder Blade wasn't so bad for speed runs), strong to earth, water, holy and dark. No Last Fencer or Tidal Wave, indeed, this is gonna be a Meteor Storm fight maybe. The Meteorite Blade would be AMAZING here too (fire wind element). Especially since you fight him twice.
Gigalarva weak to fire, holy and dark, resists earth, wind and water. No Tidal Wave again.
Khroma Dragon is weak to earth and dark, strong to fire, wind and holy.

The rest that I didn't list I either missed or don't have any resistances or weaknesses.

Yeah.. that's a lot to think about, I think.

mpeebs97

2009-04-30 01:12:22 pm

I don't know why you keep raving about SP when I bought, from the grade shop, all SP at 1. I have all ready equipped all of the skills that I will need for the rest of the run anyways.

Quote:

think Tidal Wave on the Nordopolica Breakers is a mistake.

Yes I mispoke on this, I forgot that Meteor Storm was a neutral attack and not a fire attack, so yes all I will be doing here is spamming Meteor Storm.

As for Duke, I do plan on using Tidal Wave.

Like I said earlier the only two weapons that I have for Yuri is the Last Fencer and the Claiomh Solais (and this is for Khroma).

Flip

2009-04-30 01:32:30 pm

1-Up!

To add on to what Mark said, it's also unlikely that changing Yuri's weapons would produce net time saved. Consider that making a weapon change requires navigating the menu twice, which more than likely will cancel any possible time saved in battle, thanks to such short battle times. Also, we're approaching the point where OL can be replenished such that we can start spamming Rita's spells for massive damage. Next to Rita's OL insta-cast Tidal Waves, Yuri's damage output is negligible anyway. All we need from Yuri once Rita takes the stage is Free Run attacks for pickup and maximum spell damage.

Eternalspirit

2009-04-30 10:00:02 pm

Quote from mpeebs97:

I don't know why you keep raving about SP when I bought, from the grade shop, all SP at 1. I have all ready equipped all of the skills that I will need for the rest of the run anyways.

Quote:

think Tidal Wave on the Nordopolica Breakers is a mistake.

Yes I mispoke on this, I forgot that Meteor Storm was a neutral attack and not a fire attack, so yes all I will be doing here is spamming Meteor Storm.

As for Duke, I do plan on using Tidal Wave.

Like I said earlier the only two weapons that I have for Yuri is the Last Fencer and the Claiomh Solais (and this is for Khroma).

Because you start the game with 1 SP, being at level 1. Meaning you need to level up to equip all the skills that you would need. If you're going to use 30 skills in the speed run, let's say, you would need to level up to at least level 30 to use them all. That's why I'm talking about SP. >.> What exactly am I missing here?

And yeah, Meteor Storm spam on the Breakers is probably a good idea. To be honest, in every battle with less than 3 enemies, I think Meteor Storm spam is probably the best idea. I tried a few different things in the EX Dungeon, and the only time Tidal Wave spam seemed to do more damage than Meteor Storm spam was when the monster was weak to water. I think you'll achieve better results against bosses if you use OL to spam Meteor Storm. In fact, I almost think it would be more useful simply to have Rita do nothing but OL2 Meteor Storm spam (OL2 increases damage of attacks, I believe), and have everyone else on full defense with Taunt and Taunt 2 up. This should ensure you always have OL2 for any boss fight. Karol would be the best for this, as his party taunt skill thingy would help. If you're getting enough OL to even go to OL3, you could even completely negate any need to heal Rita's TP, ever. Any thoughts?

[quote="mpeebs97"]
I don't know why you keep raving about SP when I bought, from the grade shop, all SP at 1. I have all ready equipped all of the skills that I will need for the rest of the run anyways.

[quote] think Tidal Wave on the Nordopolica Breakers is a mistake.[/quote]
Yes I mispoke on this, I forgot that Meteor Storm was a neutral attack and not a fire attack, so yes all I will be doing here is spamming Meteor Storm.

As for Duke, I do plan on using Tidal Wave.

Like I said earlier the only two weapons that I have for Yuri is the Last Fencer and the Claiomh Solais (and this is for Khroma).
[/quote]
Because you start the game with 1 SP, being at level 1. Meaning you need to level up to equip all the skills that you would need. If you're going to use 30 skills in the speed run, let's say, you would need to level up to at least level 30 to use them all. That's why I'm talking about SP. >.> What exactly am I missing here?

And yeah, Meteor Storm spam on the Breakers is probably a good idea. To be honest, in every battle with less than 3 enemies, I think Meteor Storm spam is probably the best idea. I tried a few different things in the EX Dungeon, and the only time Tidal Wave spam seemed to do more damage than Meteor Storm spam was when the monster was weak to water. I think you'll achieve better results against bosses if you use OL to spam Meteor Storm. In fact, I almost think it would be more useful simply to have Rita do nothing but OL2 Meteor Storm spam (OL2 increases damage of attacks, I believe), and have everyone else on full defense with Taunt and Taunt 2 up. This should ensure you always have OL2 for any boss fight. Karol would be the best for this, as his party taunt skill thingy would help. If you're getting enough OL to even go to OL3, you could even completely negate any need to heal Rita's TP, ever. Any thoughts?

Flip

2009-04-30 10:55:30 pm

1-Up!

I'll let Mark comment more on this, but ill get things started.

Before we started the run, we mapped out the skills to increase both speed and power for each character and have, for the most part, equipped them all already.

IIRC, our findings regarding Meteor Storm vs Tidal Wave conflict with yours. Possibly I'm forgetting a key fact, but I know that Tidal Wave in OL replenishes the OL meter nearly single-handedly.

Like i said, I'll let Mark take it from here when he gets a chance.

mpeebs97

2009-04-30 11:47:08 pm

Quote:

Because you start the game with 1 SP, being at level 1

This actually isn't true, you start on level 5. I also said already (segment 4) I equipped all of my skills. I don't need to use all of my skills. It took me forever, but I went through everybody's skills and picked the ones I deemed necessary.

Quote:

full defense with Taunt and Taunt 2 up

This will not happen. We already did a practice run and never needed to combo at all. In fact we are not even going to synthesize a level 3 OL.

Quote:

In fact, I almost think it would be more useful simply to have Rita do nothing but OL2 Meteor Storm spam

You're right Meteor Storm is a more powerful attack but you don't kill the enemy nearly as fast as you do with Tidal Wave. I tested this numerous times with Meteor Storm and once with Tidal Wave and Tidal Wave always came out the fastest by a long shot.

Quote:

OL2 increases damage of attacks, I believe

This isn't true. The closest I came to finding that you were right on this is that it does more damage to downed enemies and I don't even think that is true.

[quote]Because you start the game with 1 SP, being at level 1[/quote]

This actually isn't true, you start on level 5. I also said already (segment 4) I equipped all of my skills. I don't need to use all of my skills. It took me forever, but I went through everybody's skills and picked the ones I deemed necessary.

[quote]full defense with Taunt and Taunt 2 up[/quote]

This will not happen. We already did a practice run and never needed to combo at all. In fact we are not even going to synthesize a level 3 OL.

[quote]In fact, I almost think it would be more useful simply to have Rita do nothing but OL2 Meteor Storm spam[/quote]

You're right Meteor Storm is a more powerful attack but you don't kill the enemy nearly as fast as you do with Tidal Wave. I tested this numerous times with Meteor Storm and once with Tidal Wave and Tidal Wave always came out the fastest by a long shot.

[quote]OL2 increases damage of attacks, I believe[/quote]

This isn't true. The closest I came to finding that you were right on this is that it does more damage to downed enemies and I don't even think that is true.

Eternalspirit

Edit history:

Eternalspirit: 2009-05-01 12:45:29 am

2009-05-01 12:24:58 am

Alright, I will trust your findings. Like I said, my only observations came from EX Dungeon runs, where Meteor Storm seemed to kill bosses quicker than Tidal Wave.

So basically, in the one segment where you guys equipped skills, you equipped EVERYTHING you needed? I'm just trying to get a firm understanding of what's going on, sorry for the trouble.

And yeah, sorry for all the stupid questions, I'm just trying to get a firm understanding of the run, and I appreciate all the patience you guys had in answering my questions. I'm really eager to see this thing succeed, and I regret that I cannot be there in person to help in some way. If there's anything I can do, any testing or whatever that you guys don't have time for or whatever, do let me know. And you can count on me for verification for sure.

EDIT: Oh, one other thing you guys might want to look into. Crimson Flare does some insane damage to enemies weak to fire (it trumped Meteor Storm by.. a long shot, putting it lightly, at least from the fights I used it on). It's not so good against smaller enemies because it will keep them perpetually lifted (although useful against enemies that could potentially go OL and use a Mystic Arte), but against larger enemies, it will perform remarkably well. Gusios, I believe, is one of the fights where it will look really good on (it won't lift him, because of his size, so Yuri and co. can continue attacking him). I tried Gold Cat, also, in the EX Dungeon, and against the bosses I used it on, unless they are pinned in a corner, or in OL, it produced terrible results. It had the tendency to push the monster away, and thus not maximizing the amount of coins that would hit it. Make of this what you will.

So I'm thinking, Crimson Flare on Gusios.. against the two breakers outside Nordopolica, I really think it would be faster to abuse their weaknesses instead of trying to Meteor Storm them to death. Crimson Flare the fire one to death (you'll need to combo it for a sec for the first Crimson Flare to hit, then its a kill fest), then Tidal Wave. Another thing that might be useful against the Khroma Dragon, is trashing it with Violent Pain spam. If it hits weakness, it does a substantial amount of damage. Although Tidal Wave may prove to be faster given that she doesn't resist it. Might be worth checking out. Yuri could also spam Crushing Eagle here maybe? Earth element, which she is weak to.. but I don't know if it'll hit her if Violent Pain is being spammed.

Alright, I will trust your findings. Like I said, my only observations came from EX Dungeon runs, where Meteor Storm seemed to kill bosses quicker than Tidal Wave.

So basically, in the one segment where you guys equipped skills, you equipped EVERYTHING you needed? I'm just trying to get a firm understanding of what's going on, sorry for the trouble.

And yeah, sorry for all the stupid questions, I'm just trying to get a firm understanding of the run, and I appreciate all the patience you guys had in answering my questions. I'm really eager to see this thing succeed, and I regret that I cannot be there in person to help in some way. If there's anything I can do, any testing or whatever that you guys don't have time for or whatever, do let me know. And you can count on me for verification for sure.

EDIT: Oh, one other thing you guys might want to look into. Crimson Flare does some insane damage to enemies weak to fire (it trumped Meteor Storm by.. a long shot, putting it lightly, at least from the fights I used it on). It's not so good against smaller enemies because it will keep them perpetually lifted (although useful against enemies that could potentially go OL and use a Mystic Arte), but against larger enemies, it will perform remarkably well. Gusios, I believe, is one of the fights where it will look really good on (it won't lift him, because of his size, so Yuri and co. can continue attacking him). I tried Gold Cat, also, in the EX Dungeon, and against the bosses I used it on, unless they are pinned in a corner, or in OL, it produced terrible results. It had the tendency to push the monster away, and thus not maximizing the amount of coins that would hit it. Make of this what you will.

So I'm thinking, Crimson Flare on Gusios.. against the two breakers outside Nordopolica, I really think it would be faster to abuse their weaknesses instead of trying to Meteor Storm them to death. Crimson Flare the fire one to death (you'll need to combo it for a sec for the first Crimson Flare to hit, then its a kill fest), then Tidal Wave. Another thing that might be useful against the Khroma Dragon, is trashing it with Violent Pain spam. If it hits weakness, it does a substantial amount of damage. Although Tidal Wave may prove to be faster given that she doesn't resist it. Might be worth checking out. Yuri could also spam Crushing Eagle here maybe? Earth element, which she is weak to.. but I don't know if it'll hit her if Violent Pain is being spammed.

mpeebs97

2009-05-01 04:07:05 pm

Quote:

So basically, in the one segment where you guys equipped skills, you equipped EVERYTHING you needed? I'm just trying to get a firm understanding of what's going on, sorry for the trouble.

Yes go watch segment 4 and 7 (posted below for convenience)
Segment 4: (Yuri's, Karol's, and Repede's skills)
Segment 7 Part 1: (Rest of Yuri's and Repede's and all of Rita's skills)

I'll look into all of Rita's artes when we get to those monsters, but as of now we aren't even using Rita yet because we don't need to used her yet.

Eternalspirit

2009-05-01 08:42:57 pm

Quote from mpeebs97:

Quote:

So basically, in the one segment where you guys equipped skills, you equipped EVERYTHING you needed? I'm just trying to get a firm understanding of what's going on, sorry for the trouble.

Yes go watch segment 4 and 7 (posted below for convenience)
Segment 4: (Yuri's, Karol's, and Repede's skills)
Segment 7 Part 1: (Rest of Yuri's and Repede's and all of Rita's skills)

I'll look into all of Rita's artes when we get to those monsters, but as of now we aren't even using Rita yet because we don't need to used her yet.

Alright, sounds good.

Eternalspirit

2009-05-19 12:57:49 pm

Just checking in. How are things moving along?

mpeebs97

2009-05-20 12:33:56 am

We actually just did 3 segments today. We just now started because Michael finally recovered from his hand. We will have the runs up when he can get them done. His computer crashed and now the uploading program is on my computer and I don't know how to do it, so next time we do runs he will be uploading this to youtube.

Eternalspirit

2009-05-20 08:53:08 pm

Sounds good. I'll be checking in more regularly in the future for more updates. This run excites me very much. Smiley