Sword of Vermilion

2014-03-29 08:47:54 pm

Leader of Starbirdia!

I know this title is somewhat obscure but it was heavily advertised in the early days of the Genesis. I have written walkthroughs on the game but I have never seen anybody attempt a speedrun at this game.

I have tried a couple of times to do some early runs on the game and discovered that the game can be speedrun friendly because of the Dark Sword glitch, but is very agonizing due to bad RNG with battles (often I found myself 1-stepping into battles over and over again). Thankfully every battle can be escaped from, but it still becomes a pain.

I'm curious to know if anybody has tried this game before.

Thread title:

ZenicReverie

2014-03-31 08:53:10 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

I've thought about it before. Might pick it up some time this year, but need to beat it first.

Camouflage

2014-04-05 07:46:08 pm

i have looked into this game but there are few strategies which i think would be out of sda rules, such as repeat equip/remove curse on the cursed gear to boost stats, and knowing how hard the mobs actually hit later in the game, theres gonna be some relatively boring farming to do just to survive going from town to town!!
Theres a few sites with full maps hanging around aswell for example http://mikesrpgcenter.com/vermilion/maps.html

Might give you some indication how to progress.

Insane game though, spent hours and hours on this as a younger lad and would love to see an actual run of it Smiley

MrStarbird

2014-05-10 07:24:24 pm

Leader of Starbirdia!

I've made walkthroughs and maps for this game on both RPGClassics and Gamefaqs, so I have those at my disposal as well. Those maps come in handy when trying to navigate a dark dungeon without any candles.

When you say that the Dark Sword trick would be out of SDA rules, do you mean not allowed? I've seen plenty of speed runs that use overflow glitches to increase stats to make the game easier to speedrun (Secret of Evermore comes to mind).

So far, the only difficult part is actually getting the Dark Sword early on without getting into battle with something that would kill you in one shot. I forsake armor early in the game and just stick with the Bronze Sword. I get the Ring of Wisdom and only stay in battles where I can one-shot the enemies or kill them faster than I can run. I go to Parma, get the quest for the Treasure of Troy, then make my way to the Dark Sword. Then, going to the Cave of Troy, I get the Treasure and then die to go back to Parma. I complete the Dark Sword glitch and defeat the Blue Dragon in one shot. The rest of the run so far is not difficult, but I do manage to low-level it at that point.

I've also found (so far) that you can completely skip the quest in Watling involving the 2nd boss. Just go straight to Deepdale. Though I haven't finished the game to confirm this, it so far hasn't seem to interrupt anything. I plan to avoid getting the Sword of Vermilion (at least try to) and I do plan to get the Poison Shield for protection purposes.

I've made walkthroughs and maps for this game on both RPGClassics and Gamefaqs, so I have those at my disposal as well. Those maps come in handy when trying to navigate a dark dungeon without any candles.

When you say that the Dark Sword trick would be out of SDA rules, do you mean not allowed? I've seen plenty of speed runs that use overflow glitches to increase stats to make the game easier to speedrun (Secret of Evermore comes to mind).

So far, the only difficult part is actually getting the Dark Sword early on without getting into battle with something that would kill you in one shot. I forsake armor early in the game and just stick with the Bronze Sword. I get the Ring of Wisdom and only stay in battles where I can one-shot the enemies or kill them faster than I can run. I go to Parma, get the quest for the Treasure of Troy, then make my way to the Dark Sword. Then, going to the Cave of Troy, I get the Treasure and then die to go back to Parma. I complete the Dark Sword glitch and defeat the Blue Dragon in one shot. The rest of the run so far is not difficult, but I do manage to low-level it at that point.

I've also found (so far) that you can completely skip the quest in Watling involving the 2nd boss. Just go straight to Deepdale. Though I haven't finished the game to confirm this, it so far hasn't seem to interrupt anything. I plan to avoid getting the Sword of Vermilion (at least try to) and I do plan to get the Poison Shield for protection purposes.

Hsanrb

Edit history:

Hsanrb: 2014-05-11 03:18:32 pm

2014-05-11 03:16:22 pm

Quote from MrStarbird:

I've also found (so far) that you can completely skip the quest in Watling involving the 2nd boss. Just go straight to Deepdale. Though I haven't finished the game to confirm this, it so far hasn't seem to interrupt anything. I plan to avoid getting the Sword of Vermilion (at least try to) and I do plan to get the Poison Shield for protection purposes.

I can confirm that this is indeed skippable, and I planned on running this at one point (no curse abuse because I'm not one who likes abusable to make the game million times easier kinda people) and I usually relied on Ferros for the early game and Volti for the mid/late game, upgrading weapons when AND ONLY WHEN, the upgrade actually made a significant difference. Only issue is that once you reach like lvl 7-8 a level does more than the Kim to upgrade in terms of weapons. I grabbed both kim chests for Ring of Wisdom, and detoured left if I needed the money to buy ferros, planned once I got better at combat to get to 800 skimp out on healing herbs and get the item that takes you out of town and grab the armor/kim chest on the 2f of the Cave of Troy.

I quit running because of that stupid boss with the lasers I never seemed to learn to kill when I needed and was easy when I was practicing. An RTA with the way I was playing could probably be 3:30-4hrs and probably less if I could get away with fewer levels on the final boss phase 2 (which I learned to manipulate, far too late for me to make serious swings back into the game.)

I also like to note this game is a stickler for most of the forced areas, having to talk to people to get items you need to appear to do things. Like the mushroom (was it a mushroom) in Deepdale.

[quote="MrStarbird"]I've also found (so far) that you can completely skip the quest in Watling involving the 2nd boss. Just go straight to Deepdale. Though I haven't finished the game to confirm this, it so far hasn't seem to interrupt anything. I plan to avoid getting the Sword of Vermilion (at least try to) and I do plan to get the Poison Shield for protection purposes. [/quote]

I can confirm that this is indeed skippable, and I planned on running this at one point (no curse abuse because I'm not one who likes abusable to make the game million times easier kinda people) and I usually relied on Ferros for the early game and Volti for the mid/late game, upgrading weapons when AND ONLY WHEN, the upgrade actually made a significant difference. Only issue is that once you reach like lvl 7-8 a level does more than the Kim to upgrade in terms of weapons. I grabbed both kim chests for Ring of Wisdom, and detoured left if I needed the money to buy ferros, planned once I got better at combat to get to 800 skimp out on healing herbs and get the item that takes you out of town and grab the armor/kim chest on the 2f of the Cave of Troy.

I quit running because of that stupid boss with the lasers I never seemed to learn to kill when I needed and was easy when I was practicing. An RTA with the way I was playing could probably be 3:30-4hrs and probably less if I could get away with fewer levels on the final boss phase 2 (which I learned to manipulate, far too late for me to make serious swings back into the game.)

I also like to note this game is a stickler for most of the forced areas, having to talk to people to get items you need to appear to do things. Like the mushroom (was it a mushroom) in Deepdale.

MrStarbird

2014-05-11 05:27:59 pm

Leader of Starbirdia!

probably two runs could be accepted for exploiting the glitch for speed time and a legit speedrun, but the only problem with doing things without the glitch is that the game tends to need a lot of grinding. with the glitch I can basically go off skill (and luck) at that point, forsaking most armor upgrades and relying straight off how fast I can move my sword to break out enemies without getting one-shotted.

the only battle spell I really use in my run is Chrono, which allows me in most cases to flee if the battle looks too demanding, and at a 5 MP cost it is really worth taking. other than that, Aries, Exitros, and Inaudios are important for speedrunning. using my method, I believe I got to the 2nd Blue Demon fight (the little girl) around level 7 or 8. she could 1-2 shot me easily, but that is where skill and knowing her pattern come into play.

the game is friendly to speedrun, but even with the enhanced strength glitch, it seems more brutal than playing it on a normal playthrough (probably because I don't upgrade my armor very often unless there is one in a chest nearby where I am going that would be more beneficial for me to get than to buy the piece). the RNG for battles makes the game drag out a lot longer and I haven't found a way to manipulate that yet.

probably two runs could be accepted for exploiting the glitch for speed time and a legit speedrun, but the only problem with doing things without the glitch is that the game tends to need a lot of grinding. with the glitch I can basically go off skill (and luck) at that point, forsaking most armor upgrades and relying straight off how fast I can move my sword to break out enemies without getting one-shotted.

the only battle spell I really use in my run is Chrono, which allows me in most cases to flee if the battle looks too demanding, and at a 5 MP cost it is really worth taking. other than that, Aries, Exitros, and Inaudios are important for speedrunning. using my method, I believe I got to the 2nd Blue Demon fight (the little girl) around level 7 or 8. she could 1-2 shot me easily, but that is where skill and knowing her pattern come into play.

the game is friendly to speedrun, but even with the enhanced strength glitch, it seems more brutal than playing it on a normal playthrough (probably because I don't upgrade my armor very often unless there is one in a chest nearby where I am going that would be more beneficial for me to get than to buy the piece). the RNG for battles makes the game drag out a lot longer and I haven't found a way to manipulate that yet.

Hsanrb

2014-05-23 03:49:30 pm

For those thinking of skipping the 8 rings of light, the game locks you from getting the key to Thules cave until you acquire all 8.

So that leaves me having to learn the 3 gargoyle battles for the Ring of Earth without needing to upgrade armor (or I grind the kim/xp to tank it) and I'll probably have to do 5-10 runs to learn the overworld portion of the game. I'm not gonna enjoy having to grind 300k xp and the armor to tank it (which is where my routing falls flat) but knowing I can acquire the Sword of the Vermillion and sell the Titania Mirror by the tree in excaliberia for 13k. So if I buy the pass I can fight the boss for 25k, or I can buy armor to fight the gargoyle then turn around and get the pass... tricky testing I'll have to work out, but the boss you can fight is the refight of the dragon from the beginning of the game aka really easy. So you can probably finish the game with ~500k XP max if you really wanted.

Assuming the gargoyle battles can be done without taking damage (which I haven't figured out yet) I may be right on the money with my 3:30-4hr time frame on a glitchless run.

For those thinking of skipping the 8 rings of light, the game locks you from getting the key to Thules cave until you acquire all 8.

So that leaves me having to learn the 3 gargoyle battles for the Ring of Earth without needing to upgrade armor (or I grind the kim/xp to tank it) and I'll probably have to do 5-10 runs to learn the overworld portion of the game. I'm not gonna enjoy having to grind 300k xp and the armor to tank it (which is where my routing falls flat) but knowing I can acquire the Sword of the Vermillion and sell the Titania Mirror by the tree in excaliberia for 13k. So if I buy the pass I can fight the boss for 25k, or I can buy armor to fight the gargoyle then turn around and get the pass... tricky testing I'll have to work out, but the boss you can fight is the refight of the dragon from the beginning of the game aka really easy. So you can probably finish the game with ~500k XP max if you really wanted.

Assuming the gargoyle battles can be done without taking damage (which I haven't figured out yet) I may be right on the money with my 3:30-4hr time frame on a glitchless run.

MrStarbird

2014-05-24 04:50:30 am

Leader of Starbirdia!

the 3 Demons near Swaffham can be easy if you are lucky. they have one or two set patterns that mostly involve getting behind them while they are flying and hoping they fly to come back around instead of going straight for you. however, more often than not, they will kill you quick.

fantaginamaria

2014-05-24 05:53:01 am

Hello

Hsanrb

2014-05-24 08:08:59 pm

Quote from MrStarbird:

the 3 Demons near Swaffham can be easy if you are lucky. they have one or two set patterns that mostly involve getting behind them while they are flying and hoping they fly to come back around instead of going straight for you. however, more often than not, they will kill you quick.

So your saying my "Stay to the left and whack the $#!T out of him" strat might be the most reliable? I'll have to toy around and see what armor I need and what level stretches the tank strat because I'm 99% sure you can at least do the first one @ lvl 15, and if I need fast cash I'll just get Sword of Vermillion and return so the required tank time is reduced by a few slashes. I know with the berserker sword that he'll fall after 2 full times on ground level so thats all the time I need to buy. If I need more money I'll just find other ways to scavenge some funds even if it means replacing Extrios with 3 gnome stones for the swaffham adventures. If I can manage with one of the cheap armors maybe I can just death out over and over again.

[quote="MrStarbird"]the 3 Demons near Swaffham can be easy if you are lucky. they have one or two set patterns that mostly involve getting behind them while they are flying and hoping they fly to come back around instead of going straight for you. however, more often than not, they will kill you quick. [/quote]

So your saying my "Stay to the left and whack the $#!T out of him" strat might be the most reliable? I'll have to toy around and see what armor I need and what level stretches the tank strat because I'm 99% sure you can at least do the first one @ lvl 15, and if I need fast cash I'll just get Sword of Vermillion and return so the required tank time is reduced by a few slashes. I know with the berserker sword that he'll fall after 2 full times on ground level so thats all the time I need to buy. If I need more money I'll just find other ways to scavenge some funds even if it means replacing Extrios with 3 gnome stones for the swaffham adventures. If I can manage with one of the cheap armors maybe I can just death out over and over again.

MrStarbird

2014-05-24 08:13:30 pm

Leader of Starbirdia!

excerpt from my guide on gamefaqs.com

When you gain control, move close to it. It
will fly up and move either left or right. If it moves left, go right to get
behind it and stay a fair distance away from it. If it moves right, follow
it and stay in front of it. When it lands, get a couple slashes in and back
away so his fire doesn't hit you. The next move depends on what it does
again. If it flies up, get behind it to the right again. If it moves towards
you, back up. If by the time it lands it is on the left hand side, stay at
the middle and wait for him to fly in front of you again. If it is in the
middle by the time it lands, wait for it to fly up and move right towards
you. Get in front of it again and slash away.

They key I figured out was to NEVER let it corner you. This is difficult to
do, but you have to do the cornering. Keep hammering away and staying a
good distance from it when it has stopped. It will soon die.

If you should die, don't fret and don't hit the reset button. Yes you will
lose half of your money, but you keep all your experience. By this time in
the game, money is nothing. All you need to really complete this game is
about 150,000 Kim, and that's fairly easy to get between now and the time
you need to use it. After it dies, grab the White Crystal from the chest
and head back to Swaffham.

excerpt from my guide on gamefaqs.com

When you gain control, move close to it. It
will fly up and move either left or right. If it moves left, go right to get
behind it and stay a fair distance away from it. If it moves right, follow
it and stay in front of it. When it lands, get a couple slashes in and back
away so his fire doesn't hit you. The next move depends on what it does
again. If it flies up, get behind it to the right again. If it moves towards
you, back up. If by the time it lands it is on the left hand side, stay at
the middle and wait for him to fly in front of you again. If it is in the
middle by the time it lands, wait for it to fly up and move right towards
you. Get in front of it again and slash away.

They key I figured out was to NEVER let it corner you. This is difficult to
do, but you have to do the cornering. Keep hammering away and staying a
good distance from it when it has stopped. It will soon die.

If you should die, don't fret and don't hit the reset button. Yes you will
lose half of your money, but you keep all your experience. By this time in
the game, money is nothing. All you need to really complete this game is
about 150,000 Kim, and that's fairly easy to get between now and the time
you need to use it. After it dies, grab the White Crystal from the chest
and head back to Swaffham.

Emptyeye

2014-11-08 09:26:50 pm

Talk to the Hand

Recently beat this game for the first time and was looking into speedrunning it. Interesting that you can apparently skip one of the bosses!

One thing to note is that I think SDA would accept both with and without underflow runs of this, although a staff member would probably have to weigh in for sure. Another thing to note is that, on the Sega Genesis Collection version of the game, it looks like the damage you take from poison is actually based on your strength, which can lead to problems near the end of the game.

From what was discussed here, it does sound like going through the dungeons in the dark is possible if you know where you're going in advance, which is pretty awesome (And probably makes the game a bit more impressive to watch).

Other stuff of note: For the demons, I did find that just hanging back and letting them come to you was the easiest thing, although I was also very overleveled at that point.

In all, hopefully I'll stay motivated enough to start doing some serious work on this.

Recently beat this game for the first time and was looking into speedrunning it. Interesting that you can apparently skip one of the bosses!

One thing to note is that I think SDA would accept both with and without underflow runs of this, although a staff member would probably have to weigh in for sure. Another thing to note is that, on the Sega Genesis Collection version of the game, it looks like the damage you take from poison is actually based on your strength, which can [url=http://www.twitch.tv/emptyeye/c/5460692]lead to problems[/url] near the end of the game.

From what was discussed here, it does sound like going through the dungeons in the dark is possible if you know where you're going in advance, which is pretty awesome (And probably makes the game a bit more impressive to watch).

Other stuff of note: For the demons, I did find that just hanging back and letting them come to you was the easiest thing, although I was also very overleveled at that point.

In all, hopefully I'll stay motivated enough to start doing some serious work on this.

Jason D.

2015-08-24 01:51:50 am

Hey everyone. So I played through this game for the first time earlier this week, and I was thinking that it looks like it'll have a really good speedrun. Unfortunately, I found that no such run exists.

Undaunted, I figured I would try it out. It looked like fun. And over the past three days I did three speedrun attempts. Real-time, single segment, anything allowed. And turns out, it is really fun! You can skip a great deal of the game, the curse glitch means grinding isn't needed at all, and the battles stay interesting since you need to know the behavior of every type of enemy. And which ones are immune to Chrono. And the challenge is strong since you're a glass cannon throughout almost the entire run.

My record run, my third attempt, clocked in at 3 hours and 8 minutes. From after inputting my name, to using the Sixteen Rings at the throne. And this can definitely be improved upon. I died a few times (cave of troy, black slimes around Stow, path to Excalabria), and I was still experimenting with event triggers, so I left some places early just to see what would happen, and had to go back. Heck, I didn't even have any maps next to me. I kept losing time running back and forth to my computer to look at online maps. So anyway, under 3 hours is easily possible, and I'm thinking 2:30 seems like a good goal.

Now unfortunately, I don't have any way to record. I don't have streaming equipment, or even any accounts. I'm not even sure how to hook anything up to my Genesis and/or TV. And frankly, I really don't even have time to dedicate to doing this. Like, this is my last run. It was really fun, but I have to move on.

But I do want to see a run exist. When it comes to speedrunning, I believe no game should be left behind. Which is why if you want to do this, you should. Yes, YOU. The person reading this right now and feeling interested in trying it.

Here are all my notes about this run: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yBsUly-KLq1hOAGmiMo76KUDCP6OJJIfMMHrNA5W0Vc

Do whatever you want with this. Free world record, up for grabs.

And just in general, the strategy is to immediately go to the Dark Sword, and glitch your attack to 1500. And then run on to the end of the game, get some very useful spells and other end-game stuff, eventually glitching your defense to 1500 also, and then go back and mop up all the things you skipped.

I suppose the in-game map system was supposed to discourage players from doing this, but since it's easy to find maps online of the world and all the dungeons, moving ahead through the darkness isn't a problem. And as it turns out, there are only TWO events in the game that stop you from rushing forward. The first is Bearwulf holding the key to the cave to Malaga, and the second is needing all the rings to get the key to the final dungeon. And even on the latter you only need five rings, and you don't have to bother with any town where the ring is swiped from you at the end.

In fact, most of my amusement during this was the sheer number of towns and problems you can skip. The village full of old people? Skip. The town that's being extorted by the imposter you? Not my problem. The town where all the men were kidnapped and forced to mine gold? Good luck with that.

And... I don't know, I guess that's all I have to say. If anyone is interested, go ahead and try. I could have had a world record in three days. Maybe about 12 hours in total is all it took.

Also, if anyone wants to ask any questions, I'll be around and I'll reply to you. Does this site notify me if someone responds to the thread? Well, regardless, I'll be checking for posts myself anyway.

Hey everyone.  So I played through this game for the first time earlier this week, and I was thinking that it looks like it'll have a really good speedrun.  Unfortunately, I found that no such run exists.

Undaunted, I figured I would try it out.  It looked like fun.  And over the past three days I did three speedrun attempts.  Real-time, single segment, anything allowed.  And turns out, it is really fun!  You can skip a great deal of the game, the curse glitch means grinding isn't needed at all, and the battles stay interesting since you need to know the behavior of every type of enemy.  And which ones are immune to Chrono.  And the challenge is strong since you're a glass cannon throughout almost the entire run.

My record run, my third attempt, clocked in at 3 hours and 8 minutes.  From after inputting my name, to using the Sixteen Rings at the throne.  And this can definitely be improved upon. I died a few times (cave of troy, black slimes around Stow, path to Excalabria), and I was still experimenting with event triggers, so I left some places early just to see what would happen, and had to go back.  Heck, I didn't even have any maps next to me.  I kept losing time running back and forth to my computer to look at online maps.  So anyway, under 3 hours is easily possible, and I'm thinking 2:30 seems like a good goal.

Now unfortunately, I don't have any way to record. I don't have streaming equipment, or even any accounts. I'm not even sure how to hook anything up to my Genesis and/or TV.  And frankly, I really don't even have time to dedicate to doing this.  Like, this is my last run.  It was really fun, but I have to move on.

But I do want to see a run exist. When it comes to speedrunning, I believe no game should be left behind. Which is why if you want to do this, you should. Yes, YOU. The person reading this right now and feeling interested in trying it.

Here are all my notes about this run: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yBsUly-KLq1hOAGmiMo76KUDCP6OJJIfMMHrNA5W0Vc

Do whatever you want with this.  Free world record, up for grabs.

And just in general, the strategy is to immediately go to the Dark Sword, and glitch your attack to 1500.  And then run on to the end of the game, get some very useful spells and other end-game stuff, eventually glitching your defense to 1500 also, and then go back and mop up all the things you skipped.

I suppose the in-game map system was supposed to discourage players from doing this, but since it's easy to find maps online of the world and all the dungeons, moving ahead through the darkness isn't a problem.  And as it turns out, there are only TWO events in the game that stop you from rushing forward. The first is Bearwulf holding the key to the cave to Malaga, and the second is needing all the rings to get the key to the final dungeon.  And even on the latter you only need five rings, and you don't have to bother with any town where the ring is swiped from you at the end.

In fact, most of my amusement during this was the sheer number of towns and problems you can skip.  The village full of old people?  Skip.  The town that's being extorted by the imposter you?  Not my problem.  The town where all the men were kidnapped and forced to mine gold?  Good luck with that.

And... I don't know, I guess that's all I have to say.  If anyone is interested, go ahead and try. I could have had a world record in three days. Maybe about 12 hours in total is all it took.

Also, if anyone wants to ask any questions, I'll be around and I'll reply to you.  Does this site notify me if someone responds to the thread?  Well, regardless, I'll be checking for posts myself anyway.

MrStarbird

2017-03-25 09:34:08 am

Leader of Starbirdia!

I finished a recorded run of 3:09:18 recently with decent luck but some stupidity on my part that cost me a few minutes. I'll try again in the near future and be sure to knock that time down.

There are actually 3 parts that keep you from advancing. You actually need to finish the Stow questline for the ring of Fire and then restore the town with the Doctor (also getting the free book of spells from the King) in order to trigger Bearwulf to even show up with the Dungeon Key and the Poison Shield. After you get the Dungeon Key, you can make a dash towards the Old Nick Armor (visiting all the towns along the way), then collect the rest of the three Rings (I pick up the Ring of Sky beforehand), which are more or less just fetch quests made easier by Aries and Exitros. The game is practically free at that point with mostly just Inaudios spamming. The Gold and Red Dragons can still hit hard, but the pattern for the dragon fights is easy anyway, so long as you don't get careless, you'll be fine.

I finished a recorded run of 3:09:18 recently with decent luck but some stupidity on my part that cost me a few minutes. I'll try again in the near future and be sure to knock that time down.

There are actually 3 parts that keep you from advancing. You actually need to finish the Stow questline for the ring of Fire and then restore the town with the Doctor (also getting the free book of spells from the King) in order to trigger Bearwulf to even show up with the Dungeon Key and the Poison Shield. After you get the Dungeon Key, you can make a dash towards the Old Nick Armor (visiting all the towns along the way), then collect the rest of the three Rings (I pick up the Ring of Sky beforehand), which are more or less just fetch quests made easier by Aries and Exitros. The game is practically free at that point with mostly just Inaudios spamming. The Gold and Red Dragons can still hit hard, but the pattern for the dragon fights is easy anyway, so long as you don't get careless, you'll be fine.