Super metroid low % Possibilities

2007-09-02 11:06:04 pm

I was thinking about doing a low% run of super metroid, but I am unsure on a few details. The planned items at this point are as follows:
-morph ball
-missles (1 tank)
-bombs
-super missles (1 tank)
-power bombs (1 tank)
-ice beam
-gravity suit
-plasma beam
-3 energy tanks

If there is an item that I have missed that needs to be collected, you opinions are appreciated.
(note: I don't think I need the varia suit because I am skipping speed booster, and I think the Grav suit provides heat protection without the Varia suit, although I could be wrong. I also plan on bomb jumping in areas where the high-jump and/or space jump are needed)

Thread title:

MatrixTN

2007-09-02 11:21:23 pm

You got a deletion wish?

There was a thread on this god knows how far back. There's a TAS by Terimakasih that probably needs to be improved since it doesn't use the arm pumping (tap aim up/down like crazy) while running. Also, for everything Metroid, you can check out metroid2002.com by Nate.

VorpalEdge

2007-09-02 11:23:25 pm

welcome to the machine

The lowest you can get without OoB glitches is this:

Code:

         Morphing Ball   (1)
        Missiles        (1 or 2)
        Bombs           (1)
        Energy Tanks    (3)
        Charge Beam     (1)
        Super Missiles  (2 or 3)
        Varia Suit      (1)
        [Speed Boots OR Ice Beam] (1)
        Power Bombs     (1)
        Gravity Suit    (1)
        -------------------
                       (14)

You need the varia suit because mother brain's hyper beam does 6 tanks worth of damage otherwise (the gravity suit has no effect on it). You need either the speed boots or the ice beam to glitch through the zebetites, and you need enough missiles/supers to break open the tank and kill mother brain's first form.

David Solari

2007-09-02 11:33:58 pm

Thanks

David Solari

2007-09-02 11:36:29 pm

Also, is it faster to save kraid for the end (after ridley) or by taking the normal route (I think getting varia + ice beam after dragoon might be the way to go)

BlueGlass

2007-09-03 02:14:34 am

Yep yep yep!

First of all, as for route and items, I'd say take the normal route until red Brinstar (skipping all nonrequired items except the etank), then go up to the PBs and save after getting them.

HBJ across the moat to skip the missiles (allowin an extra Super tank to considerably speed up boss fights). For Phantoon, I'd say shoot him with a charge shot, then follow it up with five missiles, and refill your missiles while waiting for eye-openings. On the fourth round, start with a charge shot, then two missiles, then a super. Grab the Supers on the left, then go straight to the gravity suit, and save at the Red Brinstar save point again.

Now go to Kraid's lair, grab the Varia and etank, then go to Norfair and get the ice beam, then backtrack to Maridia, gabbing the Supers through the morphball tunnel in the big grapple room and the etank after Botwoon on the way, and save before Draygon.

Now beat Draygon and save (you should heavily optimize the Draygon fight, shoot his gunk and try to get multiple Super pickups).

Then head towards Ridley, and save at the save point before the fight.

Beat Ridley, then go back to the save point and save again.

Go through Maridia to the Crateria surface and save at your ship.

Go to Tourian, and make sure that you have full Supers after clearing out the Metroids. Use two supers for opening the eye door and the red door before MB, as it takes more time to refill your missiles than the two extra Supers would save on MB phase II Save at the save point before MB.

For MB phase 1, shoot her with all your missies, followed by all your supers. Then for phase II, hit her with 200 charge beam shots. Then escape.

Hopefully there aren't any mistakes in there as I was half making up the route as I went along.

Good luck on the run!

First of all, as for route and items, I'd say take the normal route until red Brinstar (skipping all nonrequired items except the etank), then go up to the PBs and save after getting them.

HBJ across the moat to skip the missiles (allowin an extra Super tank to considerably speed up boss fights).  For Phantoon, I'd say shoot him with a charge shot, then follow it up with five missiles, and refill your missiles while waiting for eye-openings.  On the fourth round, start with a charge shot, then two missiles, then a super.  Grab the Supers on the left, then go straight to the gravity suit, and save at the Red Brinstar save point again.

Now go to Kraid's lair, grab the Varia and etank, then go to Norfair and get the ice beam, then backtrack to Maridia, gabbing the Supers through the morphball tunnel in the big grapple room and the etank after Botwoon on the way, and save before Draygon.

Now beat Draygon and save (you should heavily optimize the Draygon fight, shoot his gunk and try to get multiple Super pickups).

Then head towards Ridley, and save at the save point before the fight.

Beat Ridley, then go back to the save point and save again.

Go through Maridia to the Crateria surface and save at your ship.

Go to Tourian, and make sure that you have full Supers after clearing out the Metroids.  Use two supers for opening the eye door and the red door before MB, as it takes more time to refill your missiles than the two extra Supers would save on MB phase II  Save at the save point before MB.

For MB phase 1, shoot her with all your missies, followed by all your supers.  Then for phase II, hit her with 200 charge beam shots.  Then escape.

Hopefully there aren't any mistakes in there as I was half making up the route as I went along.

Good luck on the run!

VorpalEdge

Edit history:

VorpalEdge: 2007-09-03 03:06:05 am

2007-09-03 02:59:19 am

welcome to the machine

Quote:

HBJ across the moat to skip the missiles (allowin an extra Super tank to considerably speed up boss fights).

Is that feasible? I recall hbjs requiring something near pixel-perfect precision.

Lokarin

2007-09-03 03:33:52 am

Killer Chobocos don't get any chocolate.

I was working on this...

I just cannot clip through at wall in Maridia before Botwoon.

BlueGlass

2007-09-03 05:02:43 am

Yep yep yep!

Quote:

Is that feasible? I recall hbjs requiring something near pixel-perfect precision.

Remember that this is the start of a segment. Anything within the realm of human possibility is feasible.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2007-09-04 01:38:00 am

2007-09-04 01:17:57 am

Hail Discordia!

I'm working on improving Teri's TAS, but so far it's a considerably good reference for those planning to do an unassisted run (the new run won't be).

One note about HBJ: yes, it's possible, however you need to keep very very strict timing and positioning for about 30-35 seconds until you can unmorph. I would probably have gone for taking the missiles instead, since it's just impossible for me. 15 supers, on the other hand, speed up every other part of the run, especially Ridley fight and Tourian, considerably.

Oh, and DON'T go for Speed Booster for the 14th percent, unless you want to spend eternity manipulating power bomb drops in Tourian (no other way to get past the metroids without Ice beam) in one segment with Draygon fight (no other way to carry blue suit up to the zebetites). Ice beam is at least faster in an unassisted run, let alone more convenient.

Also, you will probably need Kraid's etank as soon as possible to have enough energy for the spike room in Wrecked Ship, so in my opinion the most optimal unassisted route would be Kraid -> Phantoon -> Ice beam -> Ridley -> Draygon. It's your call where to get the 3rd etank, but right after Ridley seems like a logical choice (besides, you don't need much energy after Draygon, you'll still lose it all in Tourian).

My estimate of a finishing time for a segmented run would be ~42-45 minutes (with 15 supers) or ~44-46 minutes (10/10). Either way you should be done in under 50 minutes.

I'm working on improving Teri's TAS, but so far it's a considerably good reference for those planning to do an unassisted run (the new run won't be).

One note about HBJ: yes, it's possible, however you need to keep very very strict timing and positioning for about 30-35 seconds until you can unmorph. I would probably have gone for taking the missiles instead, since it's just impossible for me. 15 supers, on the other hand, speed up every other part of the run, especially Ridley fight and Tourian, considerably.

Oh, and DON'T go for Speed Booster for the 14th percent, unless you want to spend eternity manipulating power bomb drops in Tourian (no other way to get past the metroids without Ice beam) in one segment with Draygon fight (no other way to carry blue suit up to the zebetites). Ice beam is at least faster in an unassisted run, let alone more convenient.

Also, you will probably need Kraid's etank as soon as possible to have enough energy for the spike room in Wrecked Ship, so in my opinion the most optimal unassisted route would be Kraid -> Phantoon -> Ice beam -> Ridley -> Draygon. It's your call where to get the 3rd etank, but right after Ridley seems like a logical choice (besides, you don't need much energy after Draygon, you'll still lose it all in Tourian).

My estimate of a finishing time for a segmented run would be ~42-45 minutes (with 15 supers) or ~44-46 minutes (10/10). Either way you should be done in under 50 minutes.

BlueGlass

2007-09-04 04:11:30 am

Yep yep yep!

Quote:

Oh, and DON'T go for Speed Booster for the 14th percent, unless you want to spend eternity manipulating power bomb drops in Tourian (no other way to get past the metroids without Ice beam) in one segment with Draygon fight (no other way to carry blue suit up to the zebetites).

Huh? Can't you short charge in the room before the Zebebites?

Quote:

Also, you will probably need Kraid's etank as soon as possible to have enough energy for the spike room in Wrecked Ship

Spikes do 60 damage in power suit. One etank would be 199 energy. IIRC, running across the room as fast as possible, you'll get hit three times. 60*3=180 199-180=19 19 energy to spare.

sunburstbasser

2007-09-04 05:52:43 am

Silver Hawk!

Hero of the Day's TAS (lowest real-time) gets across the Wrecked Ship spike room in two jumps. He does a fast jump in, then also boosts on the spikes before jumping again. Doing it with one energy tank is possible, then. In the TAS he had 176 energy going in, so with 181+ you would have some leeway.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2007-09-04 11:53:03 am

2007-09-04 11:26:03 am

Hail Discordia!

Quote:

Huh? Can't you short charge in the room before the Zebebites?

Theoretically... yes. But I know I can't. Can you?

And anyway, even if that one part is feasible, manipulating the powerbomb drops -- the harder part -- still isn't. Speed Booster doesn't save much time compared to Ice beam, anyway, and the diference is going to be nullified by, for instance, the fact that you need to do over 1.5x the amount of shots at Ridley and Mother Brain thanks to not having it, and the disadvantage will increase with each shot since you can't time them precisely.

Quote:

Spikes do 60 damage in power suit. One etank would be 199 energy. IIRC, running across the room as fast as possible, you'll get hit three times. 60*3=180 199-180=19 19 energy to spare.

Right. That would require taking all the possible refills on the way, though. I've counted the amount of [semi-]mandatory damage boosts up to that point, it's close to impossible to reach Phantoon with even one full etank in case of taking them all: at least 3x20 energy will be spent in zig-zag room with pirates (unavoidable), 10 at the first supers (unavoidable), at least 2x15 in the spiked room in red Brinstar (avoidable but very slow otherwise), 2x10 in the powerbomb room (unavoidable), amounting to 110 energy in total (but most likely some more). While fighting Phantoon in low% conditions, it's also close to impossible to avoid damage completely. And after Phantoon there is another semi-mandatory damage boost for 30 energy at the left super missile pack (not taking this boost is considerably slower), so it's going to be pretty close overall. Though on the other hand, it will eliminate an otherwise ugly detour, so of course it's preferrable to take this route in case you can handle it.

[quote]Huh? Can't you short charge in the room before the Zebebites?[/quote]
Theoretically... yes. But I know I can't. Can you?

And anyway, even if that one part is feasible, manipulating the powerbomb drops -- the harder part -- still isn't. Speed Booster doesn't save much time compared to Ice beam, anyway, and the diference is going to be nullified by, for instance, the fact that you need to do over 1.5x the amount of shots at Ridley and Mother Brain thanks to not having it, and the disadvantage will increase with each shot since you can't time them precisely.

[quote]Spikes do 60 damage in power suit.  One etank would be 199 energy.  IIRC, running across the room as fast as possible, you'll get hit three times.  60*3=180 199-180=19 19 energy to spare.[/quote]
Right. That would require taking all the possible refills on the way, though. I've counted the amount of [semi-]mandatory damage boosts up to that point, it's close to impossible to reach Phantoon with even one full etank in case of taking them all: at least 3x20 energy will be spent in zig-zag room with pirates (unavoidable), 10 at the first supers (unavoidable), at least 2x15 in the spiked room in red Brinstar (avoidable but very slow otherwise), 2x10 in the powerbomb room (unavoidable), amounting to 110 energy in total (but most likely some more). While fighting Phantoon in low% conditions, it's also close to impossible to avoid damage completely. And after Phantoon there is another semi-mandatory damage boost for 30 energy at the left super missile pack (not taking this boost is considerably slower), so it's going to be pretty close overall. Though on the other hand, it will eliminate an otherwise ugly detour, so of course it's preferrable to take this route in case you can handle it.

BlueGlass

2007-09-04 04:17:58 pm

Yep yep yep!

Quote:

Theoretically... yes. But I know I can't. Can you?

And anyway, even if that one part is feasible, manipulating the powerbomb drops -- the harder part -- still isn't. Speed Booster doesn't save much time compared to Ice beam, anyway, and the diference is going to be nullified by, for instance, the fact that you need to do over 1.5x the amount of shots at Ridley and Mother Brain thanks to not having it, and the disadvantage will increase with each shot since you can't time them precisely.

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. I wasn't actually suggesting taking the speed booster in a low% speedrun. I was just stating that bluesuit isn't technically necessary.

VorpalEdge

2007-09-04 04:47:24 pm

welcome to the machine

There's enough places the speed booster would help that I'd call it equal to the ice beam with respect to speed (the room after botwoon, the large grapple room two rooms before draygon, the path to the wrecked ship if you have enough energy and are skilled enough to not get wrecked by phantoon with 5 hp going into the fight, the room with power-bombable pillars in lower norfair). The speed booster would be so much harder to pull off, however, it's not even funny. And you have to go through more of norfair to get to it to begin with, although that probably cancels out with it being much faster to get to lower norfair when you return.

Quote:

1.5x the amount of shots at Ridley

Not exactly. Ridley has a timer once he reaches berserk mode, unless it's possible to manipulate him to grab you asap and then self-destruct on a console. Your point is definitely taken, however. Tongue

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2007-09-04 05:08:58 pm

2007-09-04 05:08:13 pm

Hail Discordia!

Quote:

Not exactly. Ridley has a timer once he reaches berserk mode, unless it's possible to manipulate him to grab you asap and then self-destruct on a console. Your point is definitely taken, however. Tongue

No, I meant it literally. Timer has nothing to do with it, because you still need to lower his energy from 6500+ to 0 with charged shots alone, and charged Ice beam is 1.5 times as powerful as charged Power beam. It's even worse with Mother Brain, since you won't have any other weapons except beams by that point. But it's going to be hell already in case with Ridley, to be honest.

Maxml

2007-09-04 08:44:18 pm

Super Metroid's runs are wonderful. I must admit that I was waiting for this low% one.

Just one question (I'm not a confirmed player at this game). In the previous post moozooh said Ridley got 6500+...what that it means ?
Do you mean you managed to calculate how many HP bosses have ?
Sounds interesting.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2007-09-04 09:06:42 pm

2007-09-04 09:04:55 pm

Hail Discordia!

It's not hard to see the amount of energy any boss have, open the game in the amulator, go to the boss room and look at RAM address 7E:0F8C (2 bytes, unsigned). That will tell their energy.

Alternatively, download this archive and use the tool included inside with Snes9x 1.43 or newer, and "Super Metroid (JU) [!].smc" ROM.

Ridley has 18000 energy, but if we assume the player uses 15 super missiles (9000 damage), 5 missiles (500) and 5 powerbombs (2000 damage) and all of them hit, he'll have to deal with at least 6500 more energy units. Charged Ice beam deals 90 damage and takes a full second to charge. Do the math.

gojira345

2008-08-16 09:01:14 pm

Guys, a question.

What is wrong with Red Scarlets' run that TG will not accept it?

Boils my blood.

nate

2008-08-16 09:25:35 pm

your first mistake was taking tg seriously.

gojira345

2008-08-17 07:08:14 am

After reading the rules, thats what I realized.

So we can't use glitches and "cheats" (they sound like my grandma viewing a game trick and saying it's a "cheat") becauses it would hurt the programmers feelings?

Wow...just....wow.

nate

2008-08-17 09:38:23 am

to be fair, tg comes from the world before video games, where there was just stuff like pinball, and in those you know, it's different. but yeah, i mean it's not like sda did anything unfair to marginalize tg. they just did it to themselves.

in fact if tg had been more friendly to us in the summer of 2003 then modern sda most likely would not exist. but that's a story i've told too many times already.

Gojira345isDante

2008-08-29 05:13:52 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Love to hear that one if you have a link.

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2008-08-29 07:30:02 pm

2008-08-29 07:24:43 pm

quick search found some good discussion here.

but basically cal sent in his 1:46, it was accepted no problem, rah rah, kip sent in his 1:23 a few months later, no one responded, he tried several more times to contact tg, no response. it was then that we realized that we could just start up any old site and have it compete with tg. only we would have videos so it would be a lot more fun for everyone involved.

edit: you could also read the history blocks if you haven't already.