Super Mario World "low%" done: small86 begins

2006-01-21 10:56:10 pm

Yay, but the AVI was abnormally big.. Oh well.

It looks easy at first, but then a LOT of attempts will fail because your head hits the top of the pipe too early, well that's what I think :).

Rael

2006-01-22 12:23:12 am

Quote:

And the SMW2: YI levels were big enough? Roll Eyes

For YI, we tracked 100% completion...

For SMW, we could track minimalist completion?

Just an idea.

What i meant (and it didn't come out that way) is that the size of level just isn't litterally how long or tall or big it is. Obviously, not always is the "largest" level the one that takes longest to beat.

IMHO, the more "gimmicky" a level is, the longer it takes to beat compared to levels of comparable length *cough*DKC3*cough*, and SMW2 is more "gimmicky" than SMW

Sorry for expressing myself poorly.

DK64_MASTER

2006-01-22 12:53:40 am

You mean time taken to beat the level?

I sorta see your point...

jimsfriend

2006-01-22 01:30:38 am

Like A Fox

I don't see the purpose of doing individual levels seperately. 1)It is not as entertaining to see a couple of tricks in a 30 second run every time you want a different level. 2)Completion of many levels is incredibly simple (SW2 anyone?). 3)SS run of this type of completion is probably somewhere between 15-18 minutes. Not too long of a play or watch, even with as many tricks and shortcuts as I am throwing in. 4)I have practiced so much, I would hate to see it all go to waste in a manner that I finish the run one level at a time... tonight.

Maybe I just misunderstood.

Fabian

2006-01-22 03:07:57 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

There is nothing random about how high you bounce. As long as you have max speed (very tricky here) and hit the koopa you'll bounce high enough to be able to hit the yellow pipe, if you time your horizontal position and shell release perfectly. All in all, if you pull it off in a run I'll be highly impressed.

jimsfriend

Edit history:

jimsfriend: 2006-01-22 03:51:35 am

2006-01-22 03:51:04 am

Like A Fox

I did a little testing. It seems Mario's max jump height is based on from where he jumps. In order to test this, go to DP4 by the mini-goal and jump in a p-run to the left at the pipe from several different places several times each. All jumps from a particular spot should produce the same height, while jumps from a different spot would produce a different particular height. So his max jump height is not random, but seemingly random (good to know).

Another possible explanation for the variance in his max jump height is the oscillating speed at which Mario travels in a p-run. The faster he is travelling, the higher he jumps. Either or both of these explanations could be incorrect, I go based on what I see at 60 fps; I read somewhere the human eye only sees at about 20-25.

However, what you are saying is that both of the above are false, and as long as I am in a p-run I will be high enough to hit the yellow pipe with the shell (if this is what you are saying, go try DP4 for yourself)? Or maybe bouncing off an enemy negates the seemingly random mjh of Mario. Or there are other circumstances involved that I have not considered.

Also I have a different method for making sure I am in a p-run (which might be what affects it, but I doubt it) so maintaining a p-run up to the point where I bounce off the koopa is not a challenge (at least, not too much). Jumping from the message block to the pipe required too precise timing, so much so that I considered it luck when I had a success.

I did a little testing.  It seems Mario's max jump height is based on from where he jumps.  In order to test this, go to DP4 by the mini-goal and jump in a p-run to the left at the pipe from several different places several times each.  All jumps from a particular spot should produce the same height, while jumps from a different spot would produce a different particular height.  So his max jump height is not random, but seemingly random (good to know).

Another possible explanation for the variance in his max jump height is the oscillating speed at which Mario travels in a p-run.  The faster he is travelling, the higher he jumps.  Either or both of these explanations could be incorrect, I go based on what I see at 60 fps; I read somewhere the human eye only sees at about 20-25.

However, what you are saying is that both of the above are false, and as long as I am in a p-run I will be high enough to hit the yellow pipe with the shell (if this is what you are saying, go try DP4 for yourself)?  Or maybe bouncing off an enemy negates the seemingly random mjh of Mario.  Or there are other circumstances involved that I have not considered.

Also I have a different method for making sure I am in a p-run (which might be what affects it, but I doubt it) so maintaining a p-run up to the point where I bounce off the koopa is not a challenge (at least, not too much).  Jumping from the message block to the pipe required too precise timing, so much so that I considered it luck when I had a success.

Lenny

2006-02-01 12:55:58 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Hi, jimsfriend, could you give us a little update on your progress? It's been well over a week and, well i'm getting a little worried Grin

I was really, REALLY, looking forward to this run, and i'm losing faith. Have you found any new strategies/have you gotten the message box -> pipe in a P-run working consistently? I demand an update! Angry

jimsfriend

2006-02-01 01:32:12 am

Like A Fox

Ok.

Fabian and JXQ have me convinced that Mario's max jump height is not random, but only appears to be (for me) in real time because it is very difficult to jump at the exact same frame every time.

For DP1 I do this. Not the purple arrow because I don't think it would work, and if it did it would be too hard. I have beaten the level several times, but it is far from consistent. Making sure I am in the right spot when I release the shell is very difficult because I need the correct speed in the right (-->) direction and I have to bounce off the flying koopa at the right time.

When practicing I beat SW4 about once in every 10 minutes. I don't know how many tries are in 10 minutes though, probably more than 10. The rest of the levels are fairly easy because I have played so much.

Don't worry, the run will be completed... eventually.

jimsfriend

2006-02-15 02:54:48 am

Like A Fox

Well it's been two weeks, so I figured it is time for an update. I can now consistently beat DP1. Don't ask me to define consistent though. Now all I have left to do is practice SW4 for a week or five and then I should be able to start recording. Hopefully. But remember, I make release dates (and attempted recording dates) just as accurately as Blizzard.

Saestrol

Edit history:

Saestrol: 2006-02-19 04:56:32 am

2006-02-19 04:56:18 am

Speed Running Joy-bringer

I, along with others I'm sure, will be awiting this. Some of these tricks are blowing me away. Heh...

Phallosvogel

2006-02-26 11:40:03 am

bump
hows progress?

jimsfriend

Edit history:

jimsfriend: 2006-02-26 09:10:25 pm

2006-02-26 08:29:43 pm

Like A Fox

I get DP1 once in a while, probably about 1 in 10 tries. SW4 will always just be luck, 2 frames is just too small a time period to practice effectively. And I play all the other levels at least twice a day so I can still do them too. It's gotten to the point where all the levels except the very end of DP1 and SW4 are auto-pilot, and once I get DP1 end trick with more successes per number of attempts I will start recording and just hope to get lucky.

I also asked JXQ for a little more help with DP1 trick so maybe that will help (he is the person who found it, and he is really good with the emulator).

EDIT: It's kind of ironic that I ended up being able to do the route I suggested in my first post (when I thought I would use Yoshi).

DateHell

2006-02-26 09:49:16 pm

po0oq

just wanted to show my support Smiley

from the piccies around i see this will be one of those"omg how the..."-runs Smiley

GL with it, we'll be looking forward to it Smiley

jimsfriend

2006-03-03 06:31:50 pm

Like A Fox

I've figured out the trick for DP1, and now it is just another easy level for me. I also altered my route slightly in DGH so getting in the door is easier (I'm not blind) and I save 2 time units. I reduced the amount of time I wait in DP4 so my level completion time is 260 instead of 259 (usually). In VD1 I take a different shell which makes the trick to complete the level have a much higher success rate. Unfortunately in VS1 I will be waiting for Chuck to kick his football so I lose 1-3 seconds, but it's random and late in the run so I don't feel like dealing with it. SW4 is luck.

If you don't know what any of that means... oh well. Just know that it means 14 levels + Bowser's Castle are easy. One level is not.

I'll probably start recording tomorrow (if I have time) and hope to finish by Wednesday. Since that probably won't happen, I'll likely end up playing 5 hours a day every day during spring break. (No, I won't be going to the beach).

Should I include the credits in the run, or is it just my choice? They were in the 100% run, but not the 11 exit run so I was just curious.

I've figured out the trick for DP1, and now it is just another easy level for me.  I also altered my route slightly in DGH so getting in the door is easier (I'm not blind) and I save 2 time units.  I reduced the amount of time I wait in DP4 so my level completion time is 260 instead of 259 (usually).  In VD1 I take a different shell which makes the trick to complete the level have a much higher success rate.  Unfortunately in VS1 I will be waiting for Chuck to kick his football so I lose 1-3 seconds, but it's random and late in the run so I don't feel like dealing with it.  SW4 is luck.

If you don't know what any of that means... oh well.  Just know that it means 14 levels + Bowser's Castle are easy.  One level is not.

I'll probably start recording tomorrow (if I have time) and hope to finish by Wednesday.  Since that probably won't happen, I'll likely end up playing 5 hours a day every day during spring break.  (No, I won't be going to the beach).

Should I include the credits in the run, or is it just my choice?  They were in the 100% run, but not the 11 exit run so I was just curious.

soteos

Edit history:

soteos: 2006-03-04 03:22:46 am

2006-03-04 02:49:35 am

Runners comments? Yeah, it's up to you. I'd imagine sdkess did pretty much everything in his run himself, including capturing.
Edit: stupid me. Yeah, ending credits, do whatever with those.

Glad to see this is going to be recorded soon. The route planning for this has been insane.

Rael

2006-03-04 03:04:01 am

I think he means the game credits.

And I don't think you have to include them.

Z

2006-03-04 03:04:49 am

I think he means the credit reel in the game that rolls after you beat it.

jimsfriend

2006-03-04 04:29:25 am

Like A Fox

Yeah I am sorry that was unclear, I meant the in game credits. I was hoping to include them so I could do the glitch VIPer7 did in his video to make Mario walk funny.

As for other credits, I will include everything I can remember in authors comments one way or another.

Fabian

2006-03-04 08:04:10 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Great to hear jimsfriend. In terms of difficulty to pull off, I think this run will be very high up on the list here at SDA. Can't wait to see it, good luck!

Amazing Ampharos

2006-03-04 08:50:26 pm

Putting in game credits is optional as far as I can see. If you're unsure, there's no reason not to record them and then they'll just be chopped off if need be.

Psonar

2006-03-29 10:08:31 pm

Long live SF64!

I just read the entire post and I follow all the tricks....this is the stuff of dreams dude, I love it! What's great is that it will be a human doing a run that's as insne as many tool-assisted runs. I loved following the thread through all the route planning ideas...this was a hopping place several months ago...and now it comes down to the run itself. For people just finding this thread...go back through and look at the pictures and links posted to see some of the insanity or just read the thread as this is one of the more hardcore takes on SMW I've ever seen.

Oh and by the way, I think this qualifies as a low% when you look at the definition of an "upgrade" for Mario. Just think if this were an RPG we wouldn't even be arguing....A star is ultimate armor, a mushroom is like a mega health potion, the cape allows scads of new abilities, the Flower is a weapon, and Yoshi gives too much enhancement to be allowed either (increased health, higher jumps, tounge/mouth acts as a weapon...

the only exception is shells which are ok because their use actually adds to the skill (especially in this run!) and you don't recieve points for acquiring them, their benefit is temporary and situation-dependant, they can also harm you, and they act in a support role rather than as an upgrade. I just wanted to include my 2 cents....

***Question: how do I view the emulator vids? I have the SNES9x emulator, but I don't know how to view those videos...maybe I need a new version? or just a player?

Anyway, my hat is off to you and best of luck on this run. This will be a big hit I'm sure...

I just read the entire post and I follow all the tricks....this is the stuff of dreams dude, I love it!  What's great is that it will be a human doing a run that's as insne as many tool-assisted runs.  I loved following the thread through all the route planning ideas...this was a hopping place several months ago...and now it comes down to the run itself.  For people just finding this thread...go back through and look at the pictures and links posted to see some of the insanity or just read the thread as this is one of the more hardcore takes on SMW I've ever seen.

Oh and by the way, I think this qualifies as a low% when you look at the definition of an "upgrade" for Mario.  Just think if this were an RPG we wouldn't even be arguing....A star is ultimate armor, a mushroom is like a mega health potion, the cape allows scads of new abilities, the Flower is a weapon, and Yoshi gives too much enhancement to be allowed either (increased health, higher jumps, tounge/mouth acts as a weapon...

the only exception is shells which are ok because their use actually adds to the skill (especially in this run!) and you don't recieve points for acquiring them, their benefit is temporary and situation-dependant, they can also harm you, and they act in a support role rather than as an upgrade.  I just wanted to include my 2 cents....

***Question: how do I view the emulator vids? I have the SNES9x emulator, but I don't know how to view those videos...maybe I need a new version? or just a player?

Anyway, my hat is off to you and best of luck on this run.  This will be a big hit I'm sure...

jimsfriend

2006-03-29 10:58:12 pm

Like A Fox

Getting a succesful run on tape is the hard part as I am now learning. To view an emulator run you need the rom. Links to roms will not be provided here or at bisqwits, but google might give you a few.

Thanks for your support. Now back to playing.

Enhasa

2006-03-30 06:50:43 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Psonar, I agree with what you mean, but that RPG paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. AFAIK there isn't a single low% RPG run on this site anyway. If this were an RPG, there would be hella arguing over what constitutes a low%.

Oh, and make sure you have the same emulator version and same settings as whoever made the movie, or it will likely desync and you will be very frustrated.

To be honest, this kind of run is not really the focus of SDA, but certainly it will be published because the game is popular and the skill will be undeniable. Really, I'm not sure the teeming masses are ready for this. I've got my "most accused of being a TAS" vote ready. Wink

Floogal

2006-03-30 08:58:15 am

Quote:

If this were an RPG, there would be hella arguing over what constitutes a low%.

Well, the Mario RPG's (except for the first one) could be realistically done, and there would be little debate about what constitutes low%, as well. But that's going off-topic.

I don't consider this run a low% at all, since power-ups can be received and lost as freely as lives and shells, and there is no record at any point that Mario has picked up any previously.

That said, I'm really looking forward to this run. The best luck to you!

zfunk007

2006-03-30 04:21:55 pm

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but what do you mean by a "small" run? I would like to see this entire game speed run, although that seems like quite a chore.