Super Mario Bros.

laughing_gas

2007-03-15 10:34:32 am

Existence as you know it is over

Isn't that really obvious when you look at the controller?

Sjoblom

Edit history:

Sjoblom: 2007-03-15 11:11:28 am

2007-03-15 11:00:13 am

<3

While I do understand that there is a problem to accuratly time runs, this particular game seems to have reached a point where shaving of seconds is not a realistic feat, while there are still according to the top performers possible to shave off tenths.

Isn't it then, under these circumstances, in the interest of SDA to accept improvements as long as we have improvements in tenths.

Shouldn't runs be accepted if its undisputed that improvements of a tenth:

*Is a sizeable improvement.
*Is clearly measurable.
*Is skillbased and not compleately luckbased.
*Worth the effort of the timers with regards to the games popularity.

The reason for it to be in SDA's interest is that as beeing by many considered top authority on speedruns it should have enough flexibility in its rules to accuratly adapt to what is happening with the most popular and competetive games. And it seems that in this case thats not perfectly true.

Yoshi348

2007-03-15 07:51:20 pm

dinosaur from the past

Quote:

*Is clearly measurable.

That was precisely the problem when it came to VHS; variations in playback speed made such things not measurable. I don't know what it's like with DVDs, though.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-15 10:52:13 pm

2007-03-15 09:00:46 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

With the alternate pipe glitch I think I could get a 5:04 with a few more attempts... maybe.

I dont think you can jump through walls like the TAS by the way.

I'm actually wondering if my 4-2 idea would save any time... getting a mushroom in a previous level, run to the blue blocks with a 1 space opening at the bottom, duck and slide under it to the right of the screen for about 2 seconds, and then run for the 3rd pipe in the level. I think if you did this nearly flawlessly, it would save maybe 1 second.

once I get a 5:08 by TG, I will try to improve my time by using every glitch that will improve my time. I dont care if TG and SDA do not accept it, I would just put it on youtube. But I bet everyone would think it was faked just because it was not verified by SDA or TG.

The real question is If I do a run like this will SDA accept it?

Trevor

2007-03-15 11:30:48 pm

Quote:

That was precisely the problem when it came to VHS; variations in playback speed made such things not measurable. I don't know what it's like with DVDs, though.

all VCRs normalize the framerate to 59.94 fps.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-16 12:07:13 am

2007-03-15 11:34:09 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

With the alternate pipe glitch I think I could get a 5:04 with a few more attempts... maybe.

I dont think you can jump through walls like the TAS by the way.

I'm actually wondering if my 4-2 idea would save any time... getting a mushroom in a previous level, run to the blue blocks with a 1 space opening at the bottom, duck and slide under it to the right of the screen for about 2 seconds, and then run for the 3rd pipe in the level. I think if you did this nearly flawlessly, it would save maybe 1 second.

once I get a 5:08 by TG, I will try to improve my time by using every glitch that will improve my time. I dont care if TG and SDA do not accept it, I would just put it on youtube. But I bet everyone would think it was faked just because it was not verified by SDA or TG.

The real question is If I do a run like this will SDA accept it?

I talked to mike and he said he saw nothing wrong with it.

Where is the fastest place to get a mushroom, 1-2? If you get it there, you could save another time unit by duck jumping through that wall, i don't think its worth it there though.

I'll try and time how fast I can do 4-2 and see if you can get a mushroom fast enough to make it worthwhile.

I can get a 312 in 8-4 with just the alternate pipe glitch. That should be enough, as the other run was 5:05.5, lemme time how fast he does 8-4 compared to that 312 completion.

edit: Ok, about 4-2. The TAS is about 4 seconds faster than scott's run. That is practically more like 3.66 seconds faster for a real run. Now, assume you could do this perfectly and save that 3.66 seconds, it definately takes about 3 seconds to get a power up. Not to mention the trick to save 3.66 while big is nearly impossible to pull off, and I don't know where you'd pull it off anyways (remember, the TAS is small, so it can jump into the wall without slowing down where we'd have to duck down into it). Not worth it.

And jumping into the wall in 4-2 is impossible for a non-TAS. If you're thinking of this, you might as well be wall jumping in 8-4.

And yes, just the alternate pipe glitch in 8-4 would be enough to get you 5:04. With a wall jump, though, its pretty close but you can get a late 5:03 if you do everything like scott did. There are no other glitches that are possible to help save time, and all of his level times are optimal before 8-4.

If you want to vine glitch, go ahead but I can guarantee you SDA won't accept it.

[quote]With the alternate pipe glitch I think I could get a 5:04 with a few more attempts... maybe.

I dont think you can jump through walls like the TAS by the way.

I'm actually wondering if my 4-2 idea would save any time... getting a mushroom in a previous level, run to the blue blocks with a 1 space opening at the bottom, duck and slide under it to the right of the screen for about 2 seconds, and then run for the 3rd pipe in the level. I think if you did this nearly flawlessly, it would save maybe 1 second.

once I get a 5:08 by TG, I will try to improve my time by using every glitch that will improve my time. I dont care if TG and SDA do not accept it, I would just put it on youtube. But I bet everyone would think it was faked just because it was not verified by SDA or TG.

The real question is If I do a run like this will SDA accept it?[/quote]

I talked to mike and he said he saw nothing wrong with it.

Where is the fastest place to get a mushroom, 1-2? If you get it there, you could save another time unit by duck jumping through that wall, i don't think its worth it there though.

I'll try and time how fast I can do 4-2 and see if you can get a mushroom fast enough to make it worthwhile.

I can get a 312 in 8-4 with just the alternate pipe glitch. That should be enough, as the other run was 5:05.5, lemme time how fast he does 8-4 compared to that 312 completion.

edit: Ok, about 4-2. The TAS is about 4 seconds faster than scott's run. That is practically more like 3.66 seconds faster for a real run. Now, assume you could do this perfectly and save that 3.66 seconds, it definately takes about 3 seconds to get a power up. Not to mention the trick to save 3.66 while big is nearly impossible to pull off, and I don't know where you'd pull it off anyways (remember, the TAS is small, so it can jump into the wall without slowing down where we'd have to duck down into it). Not worth it.

And jumping into the wall in 4-2 is impossible for a non-TAS. If you're thinking of this, you might as well be wall jumping in 8-4.

And yes, just the alternate pipe glitch in 8-4 would be enough to get you 5:04. With a wall jump, though, its pretty close but you can get a late 5:03 if you do everything like scott did. There are no other glitches that are possible to help save time, and all of his level times are optimal before 8-4.

If you want to vine glitch, go ahead but I can guarantee you SDA won't accept it.

Snewton

2007-03-16 12:33:37 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

this one is pretty cool http://motiono.com/watch.m?o=74

Trevor

Edit history:

Trevor: 2007-03-16 01:37:54 am

2007-03-16 01:37:24 am

Quote:

5:08.97 5:09.00, 5:09.03, 5:08.95 as times... so i dont know about this one. I think that is a 5:05 by SDA too.

is it actually 5:05? mind timing it?

stanski

2007-03-16 01:59:25 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Can't time accurately unless you put it on the computer and use virtualdub.

Anyhow, 5:05 doesn't mean much since someone has already gotten it.

pony16

2007-03-16 06:10:33 am

Seems like measuring in seconds is not a good enough way to time this run. Whoever gets 5:04 (or 5:03 if that's attainable) or whatever if further glitches are found and there is a new number, will have it forever, even if its 5:04.9 versus someones drastically improved 5:04.1.

Also, since the nes is such an old piece of machinery, it is hard to assume that every nes runs at exactly the same speed. seems like if you froze yours or something it would save like .1 seconds on a 5 minute run. I dunno.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-16 07:44:27 pm

2007-03-16 07:14:13 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

My idea is actually different in 4-2 than what you are thinking I think.

I'm using the blocks at the bottom of the screen to slide to the right of the screen. The breakable ones. I duck and slide under them and then stand up and walk backwards, i'm not sure if you understood this correctly. It mightbe faster than the vine glitch if pulled off extremely well. Probably not, but maybe could save some time. I haven' really been able to do it well anyways, so I'm not sure.

did scott mess up by .6 and not .3? that is kind of what it seems like, but maybe I'm wrong.

Can you pull off a 5:04 and follow TG's rules?

I'm going to try and get a 5:08 by TG for another month maybe. I should have it by then... hopefully.

I think I should do the alternate vine glitch anyways. I dont know how fast I can pull that off anyways, Wouldn't it save like 3 seconds If I did it well?

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-16 08:34:26 pm

2007-03-16 08:24:01 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Vine glitch would save about 2.6 seconds from what I can tell.

Scott was slow by about .3 seconds I'm pretty sure. I believe you can get a 311 in 8-4, but I think his 309 was actually so close to a 310 that it would only be like .3 seconds or so.

The only other I will test for you for timing is 8-2. He does slow down at a few other various points in the run to hit jumps (he does it in 1-2, 8-1 before the 3 goomba's, 8-4 before the one plant), but each time the 21 frame rule takes over and running through these levels without stopping does not make a difference.

8-2 is optimal actually too. So basically that means that due to the 21 frame rule, its impossible to get a 5:04.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-21 12:02:03 am

2007-03-20 11:37:52 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

So is the alternate pipe glitch in 8-4 acceptable for a speedrun at SDA? and the walljump?

How much time can be saved on 8-4 by a person compared to scott's record? 1 second?

Tompa

2007-03-21 12:33:27 am

WTF shall be wrong with using the wall jump?! Of course is permitted, or else something is REALLY REALLY WRONG AND STUPID, so I presume TG doesn't allow it.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-21 12:45:43 am

2007-03-21 12:44:54 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

So is the alternate pipe glitch in 8-4 acceptable for a speedrun at SDA? and the walljump?

How much time can be saved on 8-4 by a person compared to scott's record? 1 second?

Yes, they are allowed.

You should be able to get a 5:03.7-5:03.8 if you do everything the same as scott does (if my timing is correct, and I'm pretty sure it is).

With just the alternate pipe glitch, you could get 5:04.

AKA

Edit history:

AKA: 2007-03-21 02:10:00 am

2007-03-21 02:03:07 am

He's back!

The alternative pipe glitch should be possible to do smoothly with a little practice, the wall jump is to unreliable although I've done it many times by accident often saving myself, as far as I remember the jump would have to land right in the seams of a tile and then you have to turn backwards and jump at the right moment. On another note is going through walls allowed since you could get a mushroom in 1-2 and use a crouch jump in order to get through the wall and reach world 4 a little quicker.

EDIT: Here's a good reference to the known glitches

http://www.red-stars.net/content/Super_Mario_Brothers_Glitches

stanski

2007-03-21 02:16:49 am

wise fwom yo gwave

eh, that thing in 1-2 doesn't save enough time to warrant getting the mushroom, since you have to pass by the plants or else you'll go into minus world.

And the walljump is about a 1/10 shot for me. Its not that tough once you know where to start the jump from. Considering how hard some of the other tricks in the run are for me, I would think that a good player could even get better odds then that on it. All you need for a walljump is just to hit the pipe right and jump, nothing else (and have the plant be down in the pipe, obviously).

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-21 09:18:30 pm

2007-03-21 09:03:55 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

5:03.7-8 If I do the alternate pipe glitch AND the walljump?

Or is that 5:03.7 with just the alternate pipe glitch?

So basically, If I messed up the same amount as Scott, and use the alternate pipe glitch, I will have a 5:03?

I need a break down of what each thing saves, Because It is getting a little confusing...

Walljump?
Alternate Pipe glitch?
Playing flawlessly?

I thought
Walljump = .6-.7
alternate pipe = .6-.7
flawless = .3-.4

Am I correct?

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-21 10:21:57 pm

2007-03-21 10:21:20 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Lol, here is a breakdown for you. All of the savings come from 8-4:

Walljump: .6-,7
Alternate pipe: .6-.7 (this is just me doing this, so you might be able to do it more efficiently or something)
Flawless play: .4 (really, like .3 something, but its close enough to .4)

Scotts time was 5:05.5 something i believe. So just using the alternate pipe would give you 5:04. Using everything would give you 5:03.

I suck at 8-1 and 8-2 or else I would try this (I usually get 199 in 8-1 and screw up that jump after the pipe-2 small platforms to the other side with the long pipe and plant).

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-21 10:31:47 pm

2007-03-21 10:26:44 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I wasn't sure about the walljump, At first I thought it would save maybe .3-.4 seconds, thanks for the info. I'll have to practice it more there. I can do walljumps pretty well, but I haven't really tried that spot yet, so I dont know, kind of risky in a really good run though. Smiley

Thanks. I'll have to test this all out and see what turns up. 8-1 is kind of tough, I find 8-2 to be the hardest part of the run, maybe 4-2 actually. Wink

" (I usually get 199 in 8-1 and screw up that jump after the pipe-2 small platforms to the other side with the long pipe and plant). "

That's still really good though. A high 199 is perfect I think... A really high 199.

stanski

2007-03-21 10:47:22 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

One thing about the wall jump: I found that using a full jump around the area that I jumped is the safest way to land it (I just button mash after I do the big jump to the side of the pipe). There are obviously other areas you can land it, but stick with one spot if you are going to try it.

You might want to get a 5:04 without the wall jump before trying for a 5:03 with it. At least thats what I'd do.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-21 10:56:52 pm

2007-03-21 10:55:33 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I always do full jumps when attempting walljumps, I dont button mash though... Maybe I should, But I just press A right when I hit the wall, I mess up occasionally.

Yeah, i should aim for the 5:04, I might get there and change my mind though.

I'll probably include you in my comments If I improve this just because you've been very helpful. Smiley

Frezy_man

2007-03-21 11:02:05 pm

bläää

I know wall jumps is tight. Do you have to jump in exactly right frame or what?

Don´t you have to hold down the B button to do a walljump? Is there a chance it would be easier to hold down B?

Annyways, a 05:04 would be uber alles!

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-21 11:08:44 pm

2007-03-21 11:07:24 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

The other option is if the run is not perfect up to that point, you could attempt a walljump to push the time to 5:04.

I'm pretty sure you have around 5 frames in which to perform a walljump. The hardest part is hitting the right pixel (occurs 1/16 pixels) on the object you are attempting to walljump off of. I just button mash because 5 frames of accuracy is doable (sonic 2-metro 3's new trick requires a blind jump with 4 frames), but it helps my confidence.

Oh, and yes, I hold down B the entire time. I should just put a piece of tape over the B button when i play smb1.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-03-21 11:13:19 pm

2007-03-21 11:07:46 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I actually dont know the answers to any of your questions. haha. Never really experiemtned with walljumps, and I'm always holding down B so I dont know. You have to hit the right pixel on the wall I think though.

Man, i've been online too much, I'm addicted right now.

EDIT: I'll have to do all this stuff later though, I have a ton of homework and I have to go to something tonight. I hate school, It's interupting my speedrunning! I'm going to practice walljumping there non-stop though.

"Oh, and yes, I hold down B the entire time. I should just put a piece of tape over the B button when i play smb1. "

Really? haha! I guess that works, but I wouldn't want to risk the tape falling off or something.

OH sorry, I thought you said you do.

I'm going off my computer, I'm too obsessed.