Super Mario Bros.

2007-01-16 06:00:03 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

You guys all make good points, and I think we should reward Andrew G if he can walljump and save a second or 2 off the current run with it. I guess I was wrong.

Frezy_man

2007-01-16 07:56:07 pm

bläää

I can do wall jump on smb1 and 3. Its damn hard but possible. It would be cool to see in a run.

Uhm. about any% (no flute run) on mario 3. I would like to do one. I want to finish a better flute run first. The 01:12:00 run I did a year ago or something on PAL were to bad to submit... As usual Tompa, the problem is... I want to do to many runs Smiley

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-01-16 09:55:05 pm

2007-01-16 09:45:37 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I'm just taking this whole glitch idea into consideration...

I would probably make a run like this after I tie scott's run. (which I have already done according to SDA timing, but not according to TG)

I think if i make a glitch run of this, it should not replace scott's run just because of the circumstances.

The glitch I am referring to is using the vine to warp to the other side of the screen to get to the warp zone faster. 1-3 seconds. A walljump may save about half a second, but not worth the risk involved.

What has always confused me is the fact that so many other glitches are exploited in the speedrun that why aren't some glitches allowed at TG or SDA in the first place? In 8-4 we all jump straight through a pirahna plant, yet it is allowed.

anyways, Hopefully I can just beat his record without glitches and then with glitches afterwards to show the true limit of the game.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-01-17 02:18:17 am

2007-01-17 02:16:36 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

The glitch I am referring to is using the vine to warp to the other side of the screen to get to the warp zone faster. 1-3 seconds. A walljump may save about half a second, but not worth the risk involved.

Well, that glitch is definately a case of mysterious warping, and won't be accepted here.

Quote:

Glitches: Many speed runs utilize glitches, unintended side effects of the game's programming, to their advantage. There are some glitches which won't be allowed, though: generally any glitch that allows you to leave the normal bounds of the game world or to magically teleport between distant locations will be forbidden. Anything involving removing or altering a game disc/cartridge or files while the game is running is forbidden. Probably any other glitch will be allowed, but exceptions might be made on an individual basis. Runs using borderline glitches will probably be allowed in separate categories from runs that don't use them.

That is sda's explanation of what glitches are allowed. Basically, I see it as this: they don't want it to be a free for all, and need to establish some sort of rule base, and therefore they decide what glitches are exploitable and ok for gameplay and which ones are not.

[quote]

The glitch I am referring to is using the vine to warp to the other side of the screen to get to the warp zone faster. 1-3 seconds. A walljump may save about half a second, but not worth the risk involved.

[/quote]

Well, that glitch is definately a case of mysterious warping, and won't be accepted here.

[quote]Glitches: Many speed runs utilize glitches, unintended side effects of the game's programming, to their advantage. There are some glitches which won't be allowed, though: generally any glitch that allows you to leave the normal bounds of the game world or to magically teleport between distant locations will be forbidden. Anything involving removing or altering a game disc/cartridge or files while the game is running is forbidden. Probably any other glitch will be allowed, but exceptions might be made on an individual basis. Runs using borderline glitches will probably be allowed in separate categories from runs that don't use them. [/quote]

That is sda's explanation of what glitches are allowed. Basically, I see it as this: they don't want it to be a free for all, and need to establish some sort of rule base, and therefore they decide what glitches are exploitable and ok for gameplay and which ones are not.

BlueGlass

2007-01-17 02:56:22 am

Yep yep yep!

Quote:

Well, that glitch is definately a case of mysterious warping, and won't be accepted here.

And you came to this conclusion based solely on a brief description of the glitch?

I just reatwched the SMB TAS and saw nothing that would be banned on SDA, and seeing as how this glitch he's talking about is almost definitely something used in the TAS, it's likely that you misunderstood the explanation he gave.

stanski

2007-01-17 03:59:42 am

wise fwom yo gwave

No, I know what glitch he's talking about, and I haven't watched the tas in a while but I don't even know how he would apply it in the game at all, and I don't believe the tas utilizes it because, well, i'm not sure why but it doesn't.

http://tasvideos.org/SuperMarioBrosTricks.html

Click on vine teleporting glitch. If thats not what he's talking about, I apologize.

BlueGlass

2007-01-17 04:07:25 am

Yep yep yep!

Oh, sorry. I probably should have checked that page before posting.

Yeah, that probably would be banned. As for why the TAS doesn't use it, my guess is that it's faster to use the alernate pipe glitch, which the TAS does use there.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-01-17 09:41:09 pm

2007-01-17 09:34:16 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

the vine glitch would not be allowed, but you think the alternate pipe glitch would be? I was planning on using both... but if that is the case I'd have to try an alternate method... although I'm not sure if an alternate route would work out too well.

The alternate pipe glitch works because mario is too far right on the screen and so the game screws itself up. The vine glitch allows me to get to the other side of the screen quickly without the use of jumping straight through a wall... which I cant do. fastest way for a person to do that level I believe.

I think there are a couple other ways to do the alternate pipe glitch though.

stanski

2007-01-17 10:02:55 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

the vine glitch would not be allowed, but you think the alternate pipe glitch would be? I was planning on using both... but if that is the case I'd have to try an alternate method... although I'm not sure if an alternate route would work out too well.

Instead of a generic post here, I would PM one of the main guys here directly, as all of our guesses are just speculation.

One question though, is it ever possible that you can go through 8-3 without having to wait for fireworks? Is there acceleration off enemies/by other means that the tas uses to not get stopped by fireworks, or do they slow down at some other point in the level that I don't notice?

Amazing Ampharos

2007-01-17 10:03:01 pm

Alternate pipe is kinda borderline since on one hand it had core mechanics like any other mysterious teleport but on the other hand it makes perfect sense from Mario's perspective and the established rules of the game world(go down a warp pipe -> end up somewhere else). Vine teleporting is probably just about as textbook for mysterious teleporting as you can get, although it is too bad since the glitch is something of the nature that you might accidentally do it during normal play...

Yeah, wall jumping is probably a bit too impractical to try to pull off even in a 5 minute run just because you have to be pretty near frame perfect on it. I'm sure it would be allowed if you could actually do it though.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2007-01-17 10:36:44 pm

2007-01-17 10:33:13 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Oh yeah, I also forgot about the alternate pipe in 8-4. That saves about as much time as the walljump does in that stage. I guess you could really get a 5:01 maybe. Who would I be PMing, Nate or Radix? Radix I'd assume.

The only way you can avoid fireworks is by doing something that is impossible at the beginning of the level... which is to jump backwards and then forwards right after as soon as the level starts. as you can see in the TAS they do these small backwards jumps pretty often to save small amounts of time.

sliding through the walls in 4-2 may save time, but you need to be big to do that for the most part, so maybe it would not save time.

I can walljump pretty well, so I guess it's a possiblity, but I dont think it saves enough time.

nate

2007-01-18 02:46:10 am

radix is no longer directly involved in day-to-day operations of the site.

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2007-01-18 03:52:25 am

2007-01-18 03:52:16 am

Quote:

radix is no longer directly involved in day-to-day operations of the site.

I, for one, welcome our new overlords.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-14 05:15:46 am

2007-03-14 04:47:58 am

wise fwom yo gwave

So, I went through the trouble of actually seeing the best time I could get in 8-4 (got a 314). This took about 20 tries and I think its slow by 1 time unit:

Would both these tricks be acceptable (wall jump and alternate pipe). One or the other? I am not good at the other levels, but maybe someone else (andrew g?) could do this.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2007-03-14 05:42:25 am

2007-03-14 04:58:29 am

I think mikwuyma and DJGrenola are good people to PM for rules-related questions.

... ... all hail our great and powerful and benevolent overlords ... ...

I'm curious to know whether travelling through the wall at the end of world 1-2 would be considered out of bounds, if someone could actually pull it off while small in a speedrun. edit: For all I know it might require pressing left and right at the same time or something ...

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-14 05:25:22 am

2007-03-14 05:08:13 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Yea I know I've talked to uyama before (maybe like a few months ago) about it and he said "if you want to kill yourself trying to shave a second doing a walljump, go for it." I didn't explain the alternate pipe thing well enough though. Plus, I wanted other people to see that it is possible to do, that walljump is like a 1/10 shot for me once I got the timing of it down, problem is that the flower often has bad randomness and is up out of the pipe :-(. And just because Uyama thinks its ok doesn't mean radix does.

And 1-2 only saves 1 time at most (.3 seconds), because you have to go past the plants to load the warp zone or else you'll go to minus world. Seeing as the trick is nearly impossible (I've never done it), its not worth it.

The only other trick is in 4-2, if someone could pull off the pipe-confusion there though (again, very difficult with very small benefit), I'd be very impressed.

slowbro

Edit history:

slowbro: 2007-03-14 06:07:36 am

2007-03-14 05:46:39 am

Doesn't Mario end up inside of an upside-down pipe, and then go down the pipe from inside? Hopefully THAT wouldn't be OoB because you're inside the pipe's sprite (I doubt it but I don't know) edit: woops :S :S I got that idea because I watched the TAS like two days ago.

Quote:

Vine teleporting is probably just about as textbook for mysterious teleporting as you can get, although it is too bad since the glitch is something of the nature that you might accidentally do it during normal play...

Count me as one of the people who actually did accidentally warp from the left to the right edge of the screen using a beanstalk years back :S

edit: I watched your video, and I had no idea anybody could actually take advantage of the wall jump outside of a TAS. Personally I think it's a safe bet the wall jump is OK. The alternate pipe could possibly be mysterious teleporting. I would say it is not, but this ain't my site.

edit: I've got to think that SMB1 is a popular enough game that SDA would host both a glitched run and a non-glitched run as separate categories. I could be wrong though.

Doesn't Mario end up inside of an upside-down pipe, and then go down the pipe from inside?  Hopefully THAT wouldn't be OoB because you're inside the pipe's sprite (I doubt it but I don't know)  edit: woops :S :S  I got that idea because I watched the TAS like two days ago.

[quote]Vine teleporting is probably just about as textbook for mysterious teleporting as you can get, although it is too bad since the glitch is something of the nature that you might accidentally do it during normal play...[/quote]
Count me as one of the people who actually did accidentally warp from the left to the right edge of the screen using a beanstalk years back :S

edit: I watched your video, and I had no idea anybody could actually take advantage of the wall jump outside of a TAS.  Personally I think it's a safe bet the wall jump is OK.  The alternate pipe could possibly be mysterious teleporting.  I would say it is not, but this ain't my site.

edit: I've got to think that SMB1 is a popular enough game that SDA would host both a glitched run and a non-glitched run as separate categories.  I could be wrong though.

stanski

2007-03-14 06:00:54 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Nah, the 4-2 trick is to first open up the vine, then somehow go down the 3rd pipe after the vine and it takes you the same place the pipe does. I can't do it personally, as i suck at avoiding that flower and still keeping the screen scroller a proper distance.

Trevor

2007-03-14 05:24:36 pm

getting a 315 would require you to get the extra timeunit in the second or third part of the level (after pipe transitions, the next timeunit is started regardless of when you entered the pipe on the previous one; e.g. they're not continuous, if you understand what i mean).

andrew g

2007-03-14 06:13:55 pm

Yes, I could do that, but it would be very risky to do in 8-4. I think I could probably get a 5:02 by SDA if I took complete advantage of the game. I'd like to get a 5:08 or a 5:07 by TG first then attempt something like this. yesterday I did very well 5:09.3, with a huge mistake, so I'm certain I'll get a 5:05/5:08 soon... actually I think I have a 5:05 by SDA already and 5:09 by TG actually.

Yes I could pull that off, I have gotten 314 as my best on 8-4. 311 without walljumping or the alternate pipe glitch.

I pull off walljumps about 1/5 times on a good day.

stanski

2007-03-14 07:42:59 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Well, 8-4 only saves 1.6 seconds or so depending on the 21 frame rule. Where would the other second come from for a 5:02 (without using the vine teleportation glitch which I can assure you wouldn't be allowed).

andrewg

2007-03-15 02:04:34 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

accessing the pipe another way, But I'm not sure if it would save any time unfortunately.

I just got a very questionable 5:09, I timed it and got

5:08.97 5:09.00, 5:09.03, 5:08.95 as times... so i dont know about this one. I think that is a 5:05 by SDA too.

I made so many mistakes and I have my best run ever, it's so dumb. well 8-1 - 8-4 were pretty nice. I think I did 8-4 perfectly... it looks it.

pony16

2007-03-15 07:42:10 am

What do you mean "took complete advantage of the game" to get 5:02?

Also, is there a faster way of starting from a standstill, ie jumping or something, than just holding right and b?

stanski

2007-03-15 08:40:02 am

wise fwom yo gwave

yea, but it requires a controller that can hold both left and right at the same time. Obviously not allowed.

And what he means is going all out with glitches. The only other glitch i see being able to help would be the vine teleportation, but that surely wouldn't be allowed. I see 5:03 as the limit.

pony16

2007-03-15 09:35:17 am

why can't you hold both left and right down at the same time on a nes controller?