Super C

Working DK

2013-07-18 05:03:30 pm

Posting from work for this, hype. Must watch. I'm so bummed I missed it, cause I was working... Angry

Mr. K

2013-11-03 12:35:58 pm

Yes

A new 1 player Super C TAS has been posted by Xipo.
http://tasvideos.org/4102S.html
The new TAS uses a trick when activating the ceiling glitch in stage 8 that allows the character to avoid being crushed by the ceiling (you still die and have to lose your weapon. The glitch works by pausing the game on every frame where the game would check to see if the character is crushed by the ceiling when it comes down. That's 4 frame perfect pauses. It's not possible in real time from the looks of it. It saves 289 frames or about 4.89 seconds.

honorableJay

2014-02-15 09:45:06 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

So I finally decided to pick up an actual NES and Super C today (since the Wii's controllers suck) and I may have found a melon. After about 20 mins of trying, the cart just wouldn't work, so I gave up for a bit. Jackal, the other game I bought, works perfectly, so I played that for a while. Upon trying Super C again, it worked, but it still isn't really working correctly. Lots of graphics get fucked while playing, and the bosses all exhibit really strange glitching (stage 4 boss was completely invisible).

My first question is should I just return it and hope I get a better cart the second time around? It's not easy to find a good cart, and this one is 3x as much in my area compared to more common games.

Also, I'd like to know how my mashing is. Passable or really bad? Video of both attached. Just try not to cry, I just started playing about 3 days ago.

Attachment:

superc_HQ.mp4

honorableJay

2014-02-20 06:18:35 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

So I wound up returning the cart I originally purchased, and luckily enough one of the other retailer's locations had another copy that I grabbed. The second copy works flawlessly, yippee!!

Mr. K

2014-04-26 12:22:35 am

Yes

Small update. I figured out how the purple spider spawning pods work in area 7. This is going to be something that you already kind of know from playing the game, but now you'll know why. I'm hoping that this additional information might help plan things a bit better for low %.

The purple pods have a counter that counts down and determines when they can spawn spiders. I'll refer to what they do in two phases.

Activation - This triggers the timer that the pods use to determine when spiders will be dropped (you can tell that a pod is activated because it starts moving).
Attacking - This is when the pods actually start dropping spiders and it happens when you are on the same vertical level as they are or below them.

--Activation happens when you get a certain distance above the pod. Refer to the screenshot to see the activation distance
--The timer counts counts down from 6 to 1 and then back to 6 (it does not use 0).
--The counter counts down by 1 every 16 frames
--A spider spawn is triggered when you are within a certain range and the counter is at 1
--When a pod is first activated, its counter is at 3
--From the time you trigger the spawn to the time in which a spider actually appears it's about 9 frames
--If you are not in range to be hit by a spider and the counter reaches 1, no spider will spawn and the counter returns to 6.
-Each pod can only have one spider out at a time so if a pod's spider is still alive a second spider will not be spawned even if the counter reaches 1

So in short, there is absolutely no randomness to when the spawns happen. I have attached a RAM watch that shows the values for the counters for the pods. I initially thought that the RAM address for each pod was determined in a fixed order, however they fall within a certain range of values and may shifted around from playthrough to playthrough. The next step is to try and use this information to anticipate spawns with greater precision in low %. It may even be worthwhile to consider stuttering on purpose at times. Now that we know where the counter is, it is much easier to plan out something like that if we were to do it.

Small update.  I figured out how the purple spider spawning pods work in area 7.  This is going to be something that you already kind of know from playing the game, but now you'll know why.  I'm hoping that this additional information might help plan things a bit better for low %.

The purple pods have a counter that counts down and determines when they can spawn spiders. I'll refer to what they do in two phases.

Activation - This triggers the timer that the pods use to determine when spiders will be dropped (you can tell that a pod is activated because it starts moving).  
Attacking - This is when the pods actually start dropping spiders and it happens when you are on the same vertical level as they are or below them.

--Activation happens when you get a certain distance above the pod.  Refer to the screenshot to see the activation distance
--The timer counts counts down from 6 to 1 and then back to 6 (it does not use 0).  
--The counter counts down by 1 every 16 frames
--A spider spawn is triggered when you are within a certain range and the counter is at 1
--When a pod is first activated, its counter is at 3
--From the time you trigger the spawn to the time in which a spider actually appears it's about 9 frames
--If you are not in range to be hit by a spider and the counter reaches 1, no spider will spawn and the counter returns to 6.
-Each pod can only have one spider out at a time so if a pod's spider is still alive a second spider will not be spawned even if the counter reaches 1

So in short, there is absolutely no randomness to when the spawns happen.  I have attached a RAM watch that shows the values for the counters for the pods.  I initially thought that the RAM address for each pod was determined in a fixed order, however they fall within a certain range of values and may shifted around from playthrough to playthrough.  The next step is to try and use this information to anticipate spawns with greater precision in low %.  It may even be worthwhile to consider stuttering on purpose at times.  Now that we know where the counter is, it is much easier to plan out something like that if we were to do it.

Attachments:

loadingdistance.PNG

Super C Pods.wch

Mr. K

Edit history:

Mr. K: 2014-07-25 11:39:46 am

Mr. K: 2014-07-25 11:37:14 am

2014-07-25 11:36:07 am

Yes

Big update on the pause trick in stage 8.

If you don't remember, there is a glitch in stage 8 where you can trigger the ceiling crusher earlier than you are supposed to. You glitch up the game and end up having to walk a shorter path to the boss. From a recent TAS, it was discovered that by precisely pausing the game, you could avoid getting crushed by the ceiling.

-Assuming you did this with TAS precision you would save 272 frames or about 4 and a half seconds versus getting killed by the ceiling in low % (any % may be more since you could keep the fire drop)
-The reason for this is because you can exit the glitched area with 2 up and down crush cycles with the ceiling instead of 3
-You need to execute 4 precise pauses in order to be able to avoid getting crushed
-Each pause has a 2 frame window
-I don't think people will be able to pause and unpause at a consistent number of frames so you'll have to come up with some visual cue to do it.
-I've included screenshots of where to pause. It's a two frame window so you'll either have to press pause on this frame or the frame before it
-After the 4th jump you fully clip the crushing ceiling and you can jump out. Be sure to not jump out too early or you will be pushed down
-If you fail this trick the only time loss will be the time you spent pausing
-Good luck doing this in real time!

EDIT: Blegh, the order got messed up. Use the frame counter in the picture to figure out what's what.

For 2 player runs, if player 2 spawns as the ceiling starts going down, player 2 can scroll the screen to the right enough to eliminate the need to do the pause trick and get a 2 crusher cycle instead of 3.

Big update on the pause trick in stage 8.

If you don't remember, there is a glitch in stage 8 where you can trigger the ceiling crusher earlier than you are supposed to.  You glitch up the game and end up having to walk a shorter path to the boss.  From a recent TAS, it was discovered that by precisely pausing the game, you could avoid getting crushed by the ceiling.

-Assuming you did this with TAS precision you would save 272 frames or about 4 and a half seconds versus getting killed by the ceiling in low % (any % may be more since you could keep the fire drop)
-The reason for this is because you can exit the glitched area with 2 up and down crush cycles with the ceiling instead of 3
-You need to execute 4 precise pauses in order to be able to avoid getting crushed
-Each pause has a 2 frame window
-I don't think people will be able to pause and unpause at a consistent number of frames so you'll have to come up with some visual cue to do it.
-I've included screenshots of where to pause.  It's a two frame window so you'll either have to press pause on this frame or the frame before it
-After the 4th jump you fully clip the crushing ceiling and you can jump out.  Be sure to not jump out too early or you will be pushed down
-If you fail this trick the only time loss will be the time you spent pausing
-Good luck doing this in real time!

EDIT: Blegh, the order got messed up.  Use the frame counter in the picture to figure out what's what.

For 2 player runs, if player 2 spawns as the ceiling starts going down, player 2 can scroll the screen to the right enough to eliminate the need to do the pause trick and get a 2 crusher cycle instead of 3.

Attachments:

2014-12-19 03:02:43 pm

Just a Super C N00b here, only trying to get a deathless run down. I don't need any tips or anything, just thought I should throw it out there that I've watched all you guys' videos on YT - make it look easy - and I'm aiming to get a no-death video of my own that I can be proud of. (Not drinking from that chalice of a true speed run just yet.)

So far, I can only do 1-4, and 6 deathless. I always screw up somewhere on the other 3 levels. It's just about reps now, I only have so much time because I'm an officer on a rather competitive WoW team, but I think about this game a lot. I think I need to devote my non-raiding time to defeating this.

How long did it take people to get into clean 0-2 death territory?

MASTER-88

2014-12-20 12:04:21 pm

Master-88

Level 7 is only real pain for me. I am really bad with this level. Especially spiderpods area. I seriously hate this

Im not sure how long its take handled that game. When i did my PAL version run in SDA im not have any emulators. I working so long (2-3 months and several hours per day) I did several deathless run though. When i got my NTSC cart later i did decent deathless run quite soon when i did emulator practice before. My NTSC time is still really bad compared my PAL run.

There is many things game you cannot make nothing because bad RNG. Bubbles level 4, mouthfield level 6 and spider pods level 7. Otherwise you can pretty consistent make improve your time.

Just keep going. Actual deathless run is not that hard, but making it for speed its pretty tough one.

Heidrage

2014-12-20 04:30:41 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

More Super C love. Thank you Gruuv. Raiding is a time sucking side job, I understand... been there before.

5, 7 and 8 issues? Where is your trouble spots?
5 has nearly no rng except for the first 5-6 jumps.
7 only has rng in the first area with the pillars. The pods all function on a consistent timer. Easy to learn when they come out as they always pop at the same time. If you take the speedrunning approach, they always pop when you get to specific positions. If you are casual, they have a rhythm and you should be able to feel it out.
There is a lot to 8. more info and I am more than willing to help.

Deuceler

Edit history:

Deuceler: 2014-12-20 05:16:17 pm

2014-12-20 05:16:04 pm

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Since we haven't set up a leaderboard for this game (a la Contra), and I haven't seen anyone post anything - congrats to zzDazzlezz on new Super C world record! He got a 13:14 on December 15th and his run can be seen here. I still have intention of running this game at some point, but don't have the means to stream as of right now. Soon!

Heidrage

2014-12-20 06:55:33 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Thanks Deuceler. I just sent Dazzle a pm on twitch.

Quote:

Just found out about your time, just watched it. Congrats. And now you know the high of a contra run when you are successful. Feels good ya?

PS: Challenge accepted.

Deuceler

2014-12-20 07:52:13 pm

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Oh man, I'm so hype you just now found out about this. Best of luck to the two of you!

Gruuv

2014-12-22 04:31:56 pm

Quote from Heidrage:

More Super C love. Thank you Gruuv. Raiding is a time sucking side job, I understand... been there before.

5, 7 and 8 issues? Where is your trouble spots?
5 has nearly no rng except for the first 5-6 jumps.
7 only has rng in the first area with the pillars. The pods all function on a consistent timer. Easy to learn when they come out as they always pop at the same time. If you take the speedrunning approach, they always pop when you get to specific positions. If you are casual, they have a rhythm and you should be able to feel it out.
There is a lot to 8. more info and I am more than willing to help.

5 was just being retarded, 7 was not the towers but the eggs, and 8 was the ceiling gauntlet just before last boss.

I went HAM this weekend, got my first single continue clear down. I've also got deathless clears of all levels now at various points.

I haven't mastered any of it, I need spread to defeat the eggs consistently (just walk up and zerg the first of two double egg spawns before it gets in on you). And I need that last flame thrower powerup to defeat the ceiling gauntlet with any consistency. But I'm at the point now where I can start recording my next attempts for that one I need to feel done with this game (for a while).

[quote="Heidrage"]More Super C love. Thank you Gruuv. Raiding is a time sucking side job, I understand... been there before.

5, 7 and 8 issues? Where is your trouble spots?
5 has nearly no rng except for the first 5-6 jumps. 
7 only has rng in the first area with the pillars. The pods all function on a consistent timer. Easy to learn when they come out as they always pop at the same time. If you take the speedrunning approach, they always pop when you get to specific positions. If you are casual, they have a rhythm and you should be able to feel it out.
There is a lot to 8. more info and I am more than willing to help.[/quote]

5 was just being retarded, 7 was not the towers but the eggs, and 8 was the ceiling gauntlet just before last boss.

I went HAM this weekend, got my first single continue clear down. I've also got deathless clears of all levels now at various points.

I haven't mastered any of it, I need spread to defeat the eggs consistently (just walk up and zerg the first of two double egg spawns before it gets in on you). And I need that last flame thrower powerup to defeat the ceiling gauntlet with any consistency. But I'm at the point now where I can start recording my next attempts for that one I need to feel done with this game (for a while).

Heidrage

2014-12-22 06:01:57 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

5 is on you then

The pods... Best thing i can say is take your time and see what happening. Take your time and observe the pods/aliens that come out and the behavior they show. On the very first platform (where you skip the 2 pods) stop there and kill one pod, then sit back and let it spawn at you. kill them off but learn how they work. You should notice the rhythm and the angles that they come out in. This will help you a bunch.

What is it about that last stretch? Is it the red things? Not doing the glitch: ignore them (like really pretend they are not there). Is it the spawns? shoot them. If your not going for a sub 13:30 run at the moment, lose the fraction of a second and shot them.

You dont have to play risky. The risky stuff comes once you have a really really deep understanding of the game that you get from experience. The experience comes from taking your time to notice the subtle nuances that are littered all over the game.

On that note and I know hardly anyone will see this, but dont ever feel you are inadequate any hobby/activity. As long as you are making progress no matter how fast or slow, you are still making progress. Hatters will hate and dont care or look for your progression. Get your butt kicked in a fighting game then they bash you for it? Ignore them and use that loss as an opportunity to improve yourself. Lose a god like run right at the end (like me last night...) figure out why and improve from it. Self progression should be your goal, not whatever goal that others set for you.

5 is on you then

The pods... Best thing i can say is take your time and see what happening. Take your time and observe the pods/aliens that come out and the behavior they show. On the very first platform (where you skip the 2 pods) stop there and kill one pod, then sit back and let it spawn at you. kill them off but learn how they work. You should notice the rhythm and the angles that they come out in. This will help you a bunch.

What is it about that last stretch? Is it the red things? Not doing the glitch: ignore them (like really pretend they are not there). Is it the spawns? shoot them. If your not going for a sub 13:30 run at the moment, lose the fraction of a second and shot them.

You dont have to play risky. The risky stuff comes once you have a really really deep understanding of the game that you get from experience. The experience comes from taking your time to notice the subtle nuances that are littered all over the game.

On that note and I know hardly anyone will see this, but dont ever feel you are inadequate any hobby/activity. As long as you are making progress no matter how fast or slow, you are still making progress. Hatters will hate and dont care or look for your progression. Get your butt kicked in a fighting game then they bash you for it? Ignore them and use that loss as an opportunity to improve yourself. Lose a god like run right at the end (like me last night...) figure out why and improve from it. Self progression should be your goal, not whatever goal that others set for you.

presjpolk

2014-12-22 09:40:56 pm

HELLO!

So I'm hearing Heidrage is now one frame behind Dazzle. That's exciting.

Gruuv

2014-12-23 02:23:26 am

Quote from Heidrage:

. Self progression should be your goal, not whatever goal that others set for you.

Totally agree, we have our haters in WoW - like everywhere. I've seen it all. Very lucky to have a largely nontoxic guild that can still play at a high level.

But yeah I think you pumped me up when I read your post at work earlier today. Just 1-deathed the entire game after getting hot with an early rapid spread - thus completely shattering my previous PB. The lone death? Fucking P1 Jagger Froid, I got cocky and tried to zerg him and ran into a bullet. Dumbest way to ruin my shutout bid, but very happy with that run just now cannot believe I did not record it. Cheesy

Very cool there's a new WR race. Good luck at reclaiming the crown, I'll have to check your stream soon.

Heidrage

Edit history:

Heidrage: 2014-12-23 05:09:48 pm

2014-12-23 05:09:28 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Dazzle has 13:13.5xx and I am at 13:13.7xx. So more than just one frame. Going for 11 or maybe 10 depending on how I feel after I get 11.

Grats on your new pb Gruuv

sinister1

2014-12-26 12:18:40 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Get it Heidman!

Heidrage

Edit history:

Heidrage: 2014-12-26 08:34:18 pm

2014-12-26 08:33:30 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

13:11.296
Twitch highlight
Twitch highlight exported to Youtube
YT speedrun only (still uploading link will work once finished)
highlight the speech after or twitch will delete it forever