Super C

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-16 08:38:09 pm

2007-03-16 08:36:38 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

How much time did that actually save though is the real question? The run was only what, 13 seconds faster than the previous run or something, and a lot of that improvement came from using 2 players? I'm not sure you can optimally charge the flame gun versus spread mashing bosses, and enemies become tougher to hit from behind when you don't have the spread gun.

Frezy_man

2007-03-16 09:17:31 pm

bläää

As I mentioned before. Fire is definitely faster ( and easier ) for the final boss in a speedrun. Just don´t forget that spread actually is faster here and there.

Croc-Doc

2007-03-18 12:04:45 am

Hi

Didn't mean to scare you Frezy.

Frezy_man

2007-03-18 09:04:01 am

bläää

hehe, wait for my improvement later too Kiss

Vugmer

2007-06-03 10:06:08 pm

Cigar Man

I did a practice speedrun of stages 1 through 5. I know that a few people are (or were) speedrunning this game, so suggestions about how I can improve are welcome.

I practiced stage 5 only one time before I made this video, so that's why the vertical section in this stage looks sloppy.

I used a DVD recorder and an NES to record this video. Here's the link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8979049730331312312

andrewg

2007-06-03 10:57:52 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Dont keep shooting the whole time, eventually you are bound to lag the game as you do several times throughout the video. Are you shooting the gun at a certain rate that is really effective when using the spray?

Frezy_man

Edit history:

Frezy_man: 2007-06-03 11:14:46 pm

2007-06-03 11:11:52 pm

bläää

GREAT!! good gaming. looks promising.

seriously. I thought spread should be the best weapon but fire looks good on the first level. So do as you like there.

The third level. It can be faster to turn around and shot this bastards to prevent some lagging... I couldn´t really fins any improvements.. maybe those falling blocks/bombs in level 4. You can blow them up before they land. But I can´t remember whats the best.

Looking forward to a complete run. This speedrun sure is one of the most important NES speedruns.

edit: after have seen andrews post above... I think shooting is good if random enemies appear. As far as there is not very much enemies on the screen it wil not hurt you if you shot a few extra bullets. Its a contra game afterall. And can be safer that way. Maybe some guys will feel like its annoying. But thats not me =)

stanski

2007-06-03 11:54:39 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

When dealing with those tanks in level 2: shoot them from the front first, then kill them from the side. That way you can walk up the screen immediately once they are dead. Also, if you can, sneak in a few diagonal shots while you are walking up to the side of them.

I know a lot of times its worth it to shoot down, but obviously avoid it if there are 4 or more guys behind you and you know more guys might be coming.

If you stand a lot closer to the 3rd mini boss, you can kill him very very fast. Just duck down and let him walk over you/jump on top of him and jump to the other side and fucking mash, he should die much quicker.

Not sure how but I've definately seen the 3rd boss go down at least 5 seconds faster as well. I can't remember when I played whether I used the spread against him or not.

Stage 4 looked rough especially during the climbing sections. Especially the boss fight. Kill the farthest 2 tabs last, just concentrate on the big group that always forms on the left, then diagonally run right to kill the last 2 at the end.

Make sure and grab the bomb during the climbing section of level 5 so you don't have to wait for bullets like that. Also, visually mark off where you want to do each jump, as I was watching I just kept thinking "he could have jumped a half step earlier" Force/Fire gun (idk the name, i always called it force but i guess its flame) is better for this boss for sure.

When dealing with those tanks in level 2: shoot them from the front first, then kill them from the side. That way you can walk up the screen immediately once they are dead. Also, if you can, sneak in a few diagonal shots while you are walking up to the side of them.

I know a lot of times its worth it to shoot down, but obviously avoid it if there are 4 or more guys behind you and you know more guys might be coming.

If you stand a lot closer to the 3rd mini boss, you can kill him very very fast. Just duck down and let him walk over you/jump on top of him and jump to the other side and fucking mash, he should die much quicker.

Not sure how but I've definately seen the 3rd boss go down at least 5 seconds faster as well. I can't remember when I played whether I used the spread against him or not.

Stage 4 looked rough especially during the climbing sections. Especially the boss fight. Kill the farthest 2 tabs last, just concentrate on the big group that always forms on the left, then diagonally run right to kill the last 2 at the end.

Make sure and grab the bomb during the climbing section of level 5 so you don't have to wait for bullets like that. Also, visually mark off where you want to do each jump, as I was watching I just kept thinking "he could have jumped a half step earlier" Force/Fire gun (idk the name, i always called it force but i guess its flame) is better for this boss for sure.

Frezy_man

2007-06-04 12:06:42 am

bläää

good comments Stanksi. As always.

Its the same for boss nr. 5. You can kill him faster then that. faster shooting and just concentrate on the center of the ship I think. All annoying bullet he does, They can be avoided while concentrate to just shot the ship. Its much about how fast you can shot though. I don´t remember exactly =/

don´t forget to use fire on the final boss.

Vugmer

2007-06-04 04:51:59 am

Cigar Man

Quote:

Dont keep shooting the whole time, eventually you are bound to lag the game as you do several times throughout the video.

I shoot constantly to avoid getting killed by some randomly appearing enemy. I think I can prevent the lagging if I make sure that there aren't too many enemies on the screen at once.

Quote:

This speedrun sure is one of the most important NES speedruns.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Quote:

Not sure how but I've definately seen the 3rd boss go down at least 5 seconds faster as well. I can't remember when I played whether I used the spread against him or not.

Good tips, stanski. For the third boss, though, if I don't use spread, then I won't have spread to destroy the bubbles at the beginning of stage 4. Another weapon might work against the bubbles, but I haven't tested this yet.

Croc-Doc

2007-06-04 05:33:33 am

Hi

vgmrsepitome, best of luck on your run. Are you still doing the Contra no-item challenge too?

And just for comparison, I recently achieved a Super C no-item time of 16:15 w/ one death. Under 16 minutes is definitely feasible, but things have to work in your favor. Unfortunately, they usually don't.

Vugmer

2007-06-04 05:52:25 am

Cigar Man

Quote:

vgmrsepitome, best of luck on your run. Are you still doing the Contra no-item challenge too?

And just for comparison, I recently achieved a Super C no-item time of 16:15 w/ one death. Under 16 minutes is definitely feasible, but things have to work in your favor. Unfortunately, they usually don't.

The only stage in which I can gain a significant amount of time on you in your Contra no-item run is stage 6, but it's not enough. I just can't replicate your button-mashing skills.

You're super-hardcore for doing a no-item run of Super C. I'm really looking forward to seeing this one.

Tiki

Edit history:

Tiki: 2007-06-04 06:42:35 am

2007-06-04 06:11:07 am

I don't even know what the fuck this is

Quote:

I just can't replicate your button-mashing skills.

Try mashing your controller into your thumb instead of the other way around. You can fire really fast if you can vibrate the controller with your left hand and try to match the rhythm with your right thumb or whatever finger you use for firing. That's what I do :\

Frezy_man

2007-06-04 06:29:01 am

bläää

I vibrate with my right arm,

stanski

2007-06-04 06:47:04 am

wise fwom yo gwave

I use my middle finger instead of my thumb to mash just because I've always done it that way and i do it much faster. Plus it frees up another finger to jump at the same time. Frezy mashes like crazy though, watching his runs its like a fricking turbo thumb at times.

Croc-Doc

2007-06-04 02:36:42 pm

Hi

I've found that the "vibration method" is the fastest way to mash those buttons, where instead of moving your thumb or finger up and down manually, you vibrate your right forearm so that your thumb/finger movement is automatic. I use my index finger when doing this. I'm guessing this is what Frezy does too.

The bad things about this method, for me at least, are that you can quickly get tired and, because I place the controller on the ground when doing this, it's hard to use the d-pad. Track and Field for the NES is the perfect game to try this on because you need to mash only in short bursts and d-pad use is minimal.

That being said, I haven't used that method on any run here so far. Regular ol' thumb presses seem to do a decent enough job.

stanski

2007-06-04 05:00:26 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Can't you put the controller on your knee and use the d-pad regularly? I don't have a problem with the d-pad doing it that way.

Croc-Doc

2007-06-04 05:58:48 pm

Hi

stanski - Sure, but with all my finger-moving frenzy, I'm bound to knock the controller off. Plus, some habits are hard to break.

vgmrseptiome - Here are my tips after watching your video (it's very wordy):

I recommend using Fire at all times; every boss can be killed quicker with it than with spread. I figure you use spread for protection against random enemies popping up, but Fire is definitely the way to go. And, though the enemies seem to appear all over the place whenever they please, there are in fact only a handful of different scenarios. In other words, it's not as random as you might think. So, whatever gun you choose, you won't need to shoot so much after you play enough times to learn where the bad guys could potentially appear.

Specific level comments:

Level 1:
-Don't stop to get the first eagle.
-Try not to turn around so much (this applies for all levels).
-Get closer to the left edge of the screen (not all the way though) when shooting the helicopter. My usual low% time against this boss is only 1 sec slower than in your video. You should be a lot faster than that.
-Though it's hard to get the timing and jumps down, you can pass underneath the set of 3 bombs w/o stopping.
-Similarly, you can jump between the 1st and 2nd bombs on the last hill. Extremely difficult, but not impossible.

Level 2:
-Looks good. Use stanski's tank strategy too.

Level 3:
-Again, don't turn around so much.
-Instead of jumping at the first enemy lying down to kill him, don't worry about him and just jump and land in front of him. Then immediately jump over while shooting diagonally right. That way, you'll draw the bullets from the tree guys away from you, and you won't need to stop - like you did in your video.
-Get closer to the miniboss! My usual low% time against the mechanical spider is the same as your time here. Plus, you can somewhat manipulate which direction the spider goes after shooting.
-Don't waste time shooting those turrets against the boss. I know what you did is safe, but if I can kill this boss while constantly avoiding 4 simulataneous bullets using only the pea shooter, then you can too. But, all this is moot; if you use Fire, you can kill it before it shoots once.

Level 4:
-Pretty solid, except for some falls.
-I know spread is good against those bubbles at the beginning, but if you're lucky, you can get past the first set w/o stopping with Fire.
-You don't need to stop when jumping to the 2nd elevator. You can get up there faster by first jumping on the right platform, not the left one.
-Kill the boss onscreen. It'll explode faster.

Level 5:
-You already know. Figure out where and when to jump.

stanski - Sure, but with all my finger-moving frenzy, I'm bound to knock the controller off.  Plus, some habits are hard to break.

vgmrseptiome - Here are my tips after watching your video (it's very wordy):

I recommend using Fire at all times; every boss can be killed quicker with it than with spread.  I figure you use spread for protection against random enemies popping up, but Fire is definitely the way to go.  And, though the enemies seem to appear all over the place whenever they please, there are in fact only a handful of different scenarios.  In other words, it's not as random as you might think.  So, whatever gun you choose, you won't need to shoot so much after you play enough times to learn where the bad guys could potentially appear.

Specific level comments:

Level 1: 
-Don't stop to get the first eagle.
-Try not to turn around so much (this applies for all levels).
-Get closer to the left edge of the screen (not all the way though) when shooting the helicopter.  My usual low% time against this boss is only 1 sec slower than in your video.  You should be a lot faster than that.
-Though it's hard to get the timing and jumps down, you can pass underneath the set of 3 bombs w/o stopping.
-Similarly, you can jump between the 1st and 2nd bombs on the last hill.  Extremely difficult, but not impossible.

Level 2:
-Looks good.  Use stanski's tank strategy too.

Level 3:
-Again, don't turn around so much.
-Instead of jumping at the first enemy lying down to kill him, don't worry about him and just jump and land in front of him.  Then immediately jump over while shooting diagonally right.  That way, you'll draw the bullets from the tree guys away from you, and you won't need to stop - like you did in your video.
-Get closer to the miniboss!  My usual low% time against the mechanical spider is the same as your time here.  Plus, you can somewhat manipulate which direction the spider goes after shooting.
-Don't waste time shooting those turrets against the boss.  I know what you did is safe, but if I can kill this boss while constantly avoiding 4 simulataneous bullets using only the pea shooter, then you can too.  But, all this is moot; if you use Fire, you can kill it before it shoots once.

Level 4:
-Pretty solid, except for some falls.
-I know spread is good against those bubbles at the beginning, but if you're lucky, you can get past the first set w/o stopping with Fire.
-You don't need to stop when jumping to the 2nd elevator.  You can get up there faster by first jumping on the right platform, not the left one.
-Kill the boss onscreen.  It'll explode faster.

Level 5:
-You already know.  Figure out where and when to jump.

Croc-Doc

2007-06-05 02:48:57 am

Hi

Prepare to rub your eyes raw from disbelief. Grin

It's funny; I spent probably 10 hours on this game this weekend, plus another 10 hours the weekend before, and so on, and so on for the past few months with nothing to show for it. Then suddenly, vgmrsepitome revives this forum topic, the rest of you express renewed interest in a Super C run, and what do you know? I finished my low% run today. Eerie.

I didn't just finish it, I demolished it. Except for a missed jump in Level 5, which I salvaged, and a slower than usual battle against the Level 7 boss, I couldn't have asked for a better run. Final time ~ 16:30. I know before I said < 16 minutes would be possible, but after seeing this run, you guys might think that time is a little ambitious.

Anyway, you can keep my Contra low% run. This Super C low% run is what I what on my tombstone. :party:

Tiki

2007-06-05 03:20:17 am

I don't even know what the fuck this is

Sweet! Nice job. I'm seeing some awesome runs about to come to SDA!

Vugmer

Edit history:

Vugmer: 2007-06-05 12:56:06 pm

2007-06-05 12:41:51 pm

Cigar Man

Quote:

I recommend using Fire at all times; every boss can be killed quicker with it than with spread.

What strategy do you use to kill the boss in stage 4 with fire?

I think I can kill the stage 6 boss faster with spread, and I think I can kill the stage 2 boss just as fast with spread. What strategies do you use when you're killing these bosses with fire?

Croc-Doc

2007-06-05 02:19:28 pm

Hi

Quote:

What strategy do you use to kill the boss in stage 4 with fire?

I think I can kill the stage 6 boss faster with spread, and I think I can kill the stage 2 boss just as fast with spread. What strategies do you use when you're killing these bosses with fire?

My strategy is simply using the charged fire shot over and over. For the 2nd boss, instead of moving to the left side of the screen, stay on the bottom and shot a charged shot or two right at the green guy. For the 4th boss, I'd just use the same tactics as you would with spread. No specific strategy. And for Boss #6, again, use charged shots right down his gullet.

Since using fire might save only a mere few seconds, if you feel comfortable using spread, then don't let anything I say stop you from doing so. Experiment and see what works best for you.

Frezy_man

2007-06-05 05:22:54 pm

bläää

great, that low% sounds really hard, congrats!

and about spread VS Fire.. I couldn´t see how fire were faster then spread in many places.. My strategy were spread all the time, until the last level. I can be wrong though.

Croc-Doc

2007-06-05 10:25:18 pm

Hi

Thanks everyone. I spent half my day at work writing the comments for the run. Don't tell my boss. Wink

The ball is in Mike's hands now.

Anyway, about the fire vs. spread, I'm basing my claim on the TAS comment saying a boss has lower HP when using fire than when using spread. I haven't really practiced a normal run of this game. So take what I said with a grain of salt.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-06-05 10:56:05 pm

2007-06-05 10:55:46 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

The bosses where spread generally helps is where you have to take out a large area of the boss. Otherwise, I liked using fire for a lot of the bosses.

Congrats on the run croc doc, i'm sure its amazing.