Suikoden II

2013-02-13 09:54:46 am

All the things

I spent some time reading over all the information related to the Join at 99 glitch. For the characters that it affects, it is probably not useful since you can get any character up to 99 from lvl 39 and the majority of the affected characters join much later than that. I'm much more interested in investigating that bug, since it looks like it has multiple incarnations for different enemies and areas.

CVagts

2013-02-13 10:00:27 am

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

I would like to see the 39/49 -> 99 trick investigated, since I thought you had to be exactly at that level for it to work, where if you were at, say, 45 or 51, the trick wouldn't work. The way the leveling system in Suikoden 1 and 2 works, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

Omnigamer

2013-02-13 11:14:18 am

All the things

My guess is that it's an overflow bug during the exp calculation. It is also mentioned as occurring in a couple of other encounters, but it's not stated whether or not it was also at lvl 39 or any other conditions. The common factor is an encounter of 6 enemies, probably all the same, and that only one character is available to receive experience at the end of the battle.

Quote:

Instant Level 99
When a character is at Lv. 39 (Lv. 49 with a Fortune rune), go to L'Renouille. Fight a group of Highland x6. Kill off all party members but him, then defeat the enemy. His level should shoot up to 99.
You can apply this trick at Mt. Rakutei after Rockaxe is liberated against a group of 6 Pixies for characters who are higher level. With a Fortune Rune, a lvl 49 character can reach level 99.
You can also apply this trick earlier in the game to have characters jump levels tremendously against a large group of strong enemies.
"Pixie trick" Contributed by rnoron.

CVagts

Edit history:

CVagts: 2013-02-13 11:21:00 am

2013-02-13 11:17:45 am

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

It would be cool to see how quickly in the game you can get this to work, particularly with use of the Matilda gate glitch.

There is a similar trick in Suikoden 1, but the highest you can get with it is Level 96 I think. You have to have McDohl and only one other person, and fight a six-enemy party in a late-game dungeon.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-02-13 11:44:58 am

Omnigamer: 2013-02-13 11:30:00 am

2013-02-13 11:29:30 am

All the things

I started reading through the thread on TASVideos, and it seems like you can trigger it in Matilda so long as your level is >=20. BadPotato was working on a 108 Stars run, although glitchless (as of 2010, he was at 3:47 during the halfway point). It does seem like the only requirement is having one person awake and fighting a group of 6.

I'm still curious about the specifics though, as far as what the game is doing internally to make this happen. It still seems to be somewhat of a "rare" circumstance since most players will never encounter this in a regular playthrough, so we'll see.

DrDoobie

Edit history:

DrDoobie: 2013-02-13 12:49:33 pm

2013-02-13 12:32:57 pm

Hey guys, I started a thread over at Suikosource about running this game and Omni directed me over here. A good resource is http://www.suikosource.com/games/gs2/guides/

Some of things Ive been wondering is how should one confront the scenario battles?
When using Vikki to transport, she has a chance of making a mistake. How much of a chance that she will make a mistake at some point during the run?

Ive got other questions about numbers (I'm not the best with em) but I am a bit busy. Im totally free all weekend so I will be doing a play through over the weekend to get reaquainted with this game and write down notes and do some testing on an emulator.

CVagts

2013-02-13 12:39:22 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

Yes I highly recommend Suikosource, I've gotten a lot of information about Suikodens 1 and 2 from it.

The scenario battles should all be done as quickly as possible. Most of them generally end on specific triggers (the first few end after a few turns, the last one ends as soon as you move a unit into L'Renouille), so they should be set up and planned to do so as quickly as possible. They would likely need to be tested (with saving beforehand) and see if the enemy will always make the same movements if you always do your same movements.

As for Viki, I do remember that she can make a mistake, but I'm not sure what those chances are. The odds of her mis-teleporting during a run would depend on how many times you teleport.

If you have a twitch page feel free to link it, and if you're able to stream it while running through it, maybe someone can pop in and help out if you have questions.

DrDoobie

2013-02-13 12:42:54 pm

CV thats what I was exactly thinking.

http://suikodenbugfixes.wikispaces.com/Suikoden+II+Join+at+99+Bug

This site also has stuff about the glitches in S2.

I have a twitch (same as handle here, DrDoobie) but I do not have the ability to stream yet (need the wires and what not and money is a bit tight at the moment)

CVagts

Edit history:

CVagts: 2013-02-13 12:55:12 pm

2013-02-13 12:52:21 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

I haven't played through S2 in a long time, but the difference between a S1 any% run and a S1 all-characters run would be MAYBE an hour, if there's bad luck. I feel like the difference would be a lot bigger in S2, because of the extra stuff you have to do for some of the characters (there's a whole extra dungeon for Futch and Humphrey, for example).

There's also differences based on if you import a maxed-out S1 file, but that really only affects if you can get McDohl and the levels/equipment of the characters who are in both games (Flik and Viktor join at 20 without a file, but can join as high as 33 with a file).

DrDoobie

2013-02-13 01:04:54 pm

I wouldn't use a S1 save in the run. Clive's quest would be a pain for a 108 star run.

Easy Luca Blight fight glitch

CVagts

2013-02-13 01:10:20 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

I think that would actually be faster than fighting him legit.

As for Clive's quest, there would also be a distinction between 100% and all 108 stars, since you don't need to do all of Clive's quest to recruit him, just the first part in Muse.

DrDoobie

2013-02-13 01:12:29 pm

True. Its been too long since I did a 100% of this game, even my last casual play through wasn't even a 108 star play through. And with optimization and Matilda Gate, Luca will go down in a breeze.

Omnigamer

2013-02-13 02:02:00 pm

Sequences like the Luca Blight battle would also have to be considered in the routing, since you would have to carefully select non-story-related characters to receive your Level 99 buffs so that you can still be defeated at the right times quickly. Other times include the early Neclord battles. As easy as it would be to just make Riou Lvl 99 as soon as possible, it may not be the best in practice if you have to wait for "impossible" bosses to whittle down your health, and IIRC there's no way to attack/KO yourself quickly.

DrDoobie

2013-02-13 02:05:41 pm

Riou lvl 99 early is not the way to go. There are ways to hurt yourself like the Fire Lizard rune but thats based on damage dealt. Can you even inflict damage on Neclord in those first two battles?

CVagts

2013-02-13 02:05:48 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

I thought you could run away rather than fight the unwinnable Neclord battle. And I think that's about the only unwinnable fight in Suikoden 2.

DrDoobie

2013-02-13 02:07:40 pm

Fire Lizard rune

"Attacking with your weapon results in 50% more damage done to the enemy, based on the fire elemental. The wielder will receive half of that damage himself however, so beware of attacking him to death in no time. Use this rune if you intend to kill yourself for reasons like experience grinding with the Fortune Rune on weaker party members. Or combine it with a Fire Sealing Rune to negate the self-inflicted injuries, boosting your attack power without any drawbacks. Or embed a Rage Rune to your weapon if you have one to spare, it will do practically the same without hurting you at all. - Celes"

DrDoobie

Edit history:

DrDoobie: 2013-02-13 02:18:29 pm

2013-02-13 02:15:07 pm

Also, Valeria > Kasumi because Kindness rune glitch with her Falcon rune. She does 2x damage with STR at 999 and if she hits that 5x damage it could be deadly. I'm gonna test that this weekend for sure

What would be other good weapon runes? Friendship and Fire Lizard runes make sense. Can you imagine if they had left the Solitude rune in the game?

CVagts

Edit history:

CVagts: 2013-02-13 02:18:50 pm

2013-02-13 02:18:27 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

You'd probably want to take Kasumi in an all-stars run because she makes the ninjas a hell of a lot easier to recruit, but yeah, that kind of damage output makes Valeria a lot more viable for any%.

I've been doing a casual refresher up to Muse so far, and Nanami seems like a good candidate for Kindness Rune glitch also, since she hits twice.

DrDoobie

2013-02-13 02:21:00 pm

True. Killey is also a great choice as he has 3 open rune slots for double beat/ double strike/ fury with kindness rune

Omnigamer

2013-02-13 02:21:45 pm

I think there are more reliable ways to get that amount of damage consistently, rather than rely on chances. Basically you want Kindness to go to a character with plenty of rune slots and capable of receiving Fury, Rage, and Double Beat. Basically anything that can add the modifier to the attack. Check out the damage formula to see what I mean. Set up properly, it's likely that you can get somebody that hits for 3k on each hit, without relying on chance.

That said, there will probably be two different primary uses for Kindness Rune glitch:
-Boss Fights. Since most bosses are by themselves, this one is pretty self-explanitory. Buff up that person like crazy, and even Beast Rune will fall in just a couple hits.
-Required Zaku fights. Just put Kindness on somebody with a "hit all enemies" physical special, and you're golden.

CVagts

2013-02-13 02:25:30 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

My initial idea was to see which all characters are available to you when you first obtain the Kindness Rune, to see if you could get someone set up for the rest of the game. I'll still do that, but with Fury/Rage/Double Beat/Double Strike available as options, it would be good to see who all has those three rune slots available.

DrDoobie

Edit history:

DrDoobie: 2013-02-13 02:32:54 pm

DrDoobie: 2013-02-13 02:31:20 pm

2013-02-13 02:30:59 pm

Sheena, Rina, Killey, Sid, Luc, Gantetsu, Chaco all have 3 open slots and a weapon. Id say no to a few so my real available options would be Sheena or Killey. Kindness rune is at lakewest and Double beat isnt until Gijimu (2% drop on CutRabbit (North Sparrow Passage) and WhiteTiger (Muse Area #2) but too inconsistent to rely on). Double strike in tinto mines and fury rune is a muse rare find (worth checking to see but only if it meant it would save enough time later in the game) or L'Ren treasure. Unless guardian diety is to be used to get it earlier or get a 2nd kindness rune but I think that would be a waste of time

CVagts

Edit history:

CVagts: 2013-02-13 02:34:47 pm

2013-02-13 02:34:05 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

I think routing to plan on a variety of options would be best. You can end up fighting quite a few CutRabbits so the Double Beat isn't THAT farfetched. And the Fury Rune would be another random thing to route both if you get one and if you don't.

And what I've looked into about the Guardian Deity, I don't want to rely on that for anything. Tongue

DrDoobie

Edit history:

DrDoobie: 2013-02-13 02:38:09 pm

2013-02-13 02:35:36 pm

Of course, different strats for different scenarios. And yea, GD is something I want to completely avoid. Also, I'm really really really excited to get started on the planning.

Omnigamer

2013-02-13 03:59:41 pm

All the things

Just letting everybody know that my copy arrived today, and I plan to stream a semi-casual playthrough of it starting tonight.

I agree with CVagts that trying to quickly farm up a Double Beat rune at that early stage of the game would be exceedingly helpful as things progress.