Suikoden II

2013-03-04 10:49:40 pm

All the things

I worked up an excel thingy and yeah, on average you should get the first lvl 4 point with Riou at level 38, but not earlier than 36. So you should be safe there.

There are 2 different enemy sets in Sindar Ruins. Second set replaces the first after placing the Triangle at the waterfall. 2nd set has much better enemies for grinding, but also more difficult. Should be able to level off of just about anything though to get to the level 11-12 "safe zone". Double-head is still iffy sometimes, but so long as you pop the Double-Beat on Shiro you should be safe.

One other thing: the game time moves slower during most unite and magic animations. It's fairly minor, but it can add up over the whole course of the run. This could be another distinction between real-time and game-time goals.

Those were the observations from my off-stream routing tonight.

Omnigamer

2013-03-05 08:08:20 am

All the things

...... Is it wrongwarp time???

http://suikosource.yuku.com/topic/479/Crazy-Bug#.UTYKN6VeZ8F

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/198844-suikoden-ii/46978016

DrDoobie

Edit history:

DrDoobie: 2013-03-05 10:29:22 am

2013-03-05 10:28:55 am

Weird.

CVagts

2013-03-05 03:14:00 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

That would be a pretty cool wrong warp if we could figure out how to do it. Who needs those last few dungeons and bosses anyway?

DrDoobie

2013-03-05 10:37:16 pm

Quote from CVagts:

That would be a pretty cool wrong warp if we could figure out how to do it. Who needs those last few dungeons and bosses anyway?

If it means skipping war battles then sign me up

Omnigamer

2013-03-06 06:25:16 am

All the things

Assuming that both posts are from the same glitch and that they are not fake, we can narrow down the trigger possibilities:

-Happens on the Greenhill Academy screen entrance. Both descriptions indicate the same screen, but different times in the plot and different entrances.
-The one guy claims that neither resetting or re-loading changed the outcome, and that somebody else was able to advance normally. This means that the trigger is carried in the memory card. I currently have no idea what data is saved to the memory card.
-Jumps instantly to the 108 Stars sequence, or a few event triggers that eventually lead to the 108 Stars sequence. Seems odd that it would set up events that several triggers would play in order before 108 Stars, but eh, I'm willing to believe it for now.
-My immediate guess is that it's the result of save corruption, since a)the glitch is so rare, and b) is persistent from a save. I don't really want to go down a save corruption route in a run, but it might be fun to show off. If Pokemon can do it...

Easiest way to theorize further would be to get a listing of the save contents. Or just blow it off and continue with normal routing. Whichever comes first.

Note: If it can be reproduced, the game can potentially be finished as early as the first trip to Muse. Just sayin'.

Assuming that both posts are from the same glitch and that they are [i]not[/i] fake, we can narrow down the trigger possibilities:

-Happens on the Greenhill Academy screen entrance. Both descriptions indicate the same screen, but different times in the plot and different entrances.
-The one guy claims that neither resetting or re-loading changed the outcome, and that somebody else was able to advance normally. This means that the trigger is carried in the memory card. I currently have no idea what data is saved to the memory card.
-Jumps instantly to the 108 Stars sequence, or a few event triggers that eventually lead to the 108 Stars sequence. Seems odd that it would set up events that several triggers would play in order before 108 Stars, but eh, I'm willing to believe it for now.
-My immediate guess is that it's the result of save corruption, since a)the glitch is so rare, and b) is persistent from a save. I don't really want to go down a save corruption route in a run, but it might be fun to show off. If Pokemon can do it...

Easiest way to theorize further would be to get a listing of the save contents. Or just blow it off and continue with normal routing. Whichever comes first.

Note: If it can be reproduced, the game can potentially be finished as early as the first trip to Muse. Just sayin'.

Lag.Com

Edit history:

Lag.Com: 2013-03-06 08:23:51 am

2013-03-06 08:23:34 am

sda loyalist

I can't think of anything that would cause this to happen other than a messed up quest flag, which would be stored in the save. It's no secret that Sui2 has some sloppy programming, so people may just have run afoul of a really bad jump with no bounds checking or something.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-03-07 12:12:17 am

Omnigamer: 2013-03-06 11:55:48 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-06 10:03:48 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-06 09:22:46 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-06 08:53:51 pm

2013-03-06 08:51:56 pm

All the things

New cutscene skip: when you go into Coronet by boat through Kindness Early, if you're holding X you won't actually enter the town and instead it will instantly transition to the boat travel sequence to Kuskus. This probably saves a fair amount of time. I have no idea how it works, but it showed up during testing. Could be worth trying elsewhere? But I don't really know what else would use that kind of trigger.

EDIT: It's not a button that triggers it, but rather a particular tile of water. I would say aim for the dock jutting out from the middle of the town and it should trigger. Saves roughly 35 seconds in game time over going into the town. Video incoming.

EDIT2: Also, wacky idea time: use Rina as Kindness bearer for 3 slots. Farm deaths for her during Luca sequence, then pull her back out during peace conference at Muse for free levels. Chaco not usable in the same way for story reasons; Sheena may also be an option, but harder to guarantee rune slot availability. I'll think on it a bit more.

EDIT3: Another wacky thing to look into: if you have Jowy/Riou equipped with a rune during the True Rune sequence, normally it gets placed back into your inventory. What if your inventory is full? Might be some odd oversights here.

New cutscene skip: when you go into Coronet by boat through Kindness Early, if you're holding X you won't actually enter the town and instead it will instantly transition to the boat travel sequence to Kuskus. This probably saves a fair amount of time. I have no idea how it works, but it showed up during testing. Could be worth trying elsewhere? But I don't really know what else would use that kind of trigger.

EDIT: It's not a button that triggers it, but rather a particular tile of water. I would say aim for the dock jutting out from the middle of the town and it should trigger. Saves roughly 35 seconds in game time over going into the town. Video incoming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxtEMZDNNFY

EDIT2: Also, wacky idea time: use Rina as Kindness bearer for 3 slots. Farm deaths for her during Luca sequence, then pull her back out during peace conference at Muse for free levels. Chaco not usable in the same way for story reasons; Sheena may also be an option, but harder to guarantee rune slot availability. I'll think on it a bit more.

EDIT3: Another wacky thing to look into: if you have Jowy/Riou equipped with a rune during the True Rune sequence, normally it gets placed back into your inventory. What if your inventory is full? Might be some odd oversights here.

Vaslof

Edit history:

Vaslof: 2013-03-07 12:34:19 am

2013-03-07 12:28:34 am

Nice find! We've also overestimated the time it takes to get the early kindness rune. I managed a 4:30min with bad encounter luck and one run fail. Don't loot dragon armor btw, it's not needed. It could be done in 3:30-4:00min. Now with the cutscene skip you save another 35sec. It's getting closer to the normal route, if not faster. We should also farm deaths on Eilie while in North Sparrow grinding for a double-beat. Just put her in the front row. This way you also save whatever time it'd take to farm deaths on kindness rune bearer.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-03-07 08:08:09 am

2013-03-07 07:19:52 am

All the things

I disagree with Eilie in North Sparrow; if you have to farm for Double Beat, it's more effective to do it after the Troupe leaves your party for guaranteed Let Gos. Instead, my newer route simply uses Nanami for the initial bearer (she'll have deaths built up from Double Head and the Border anyway) and then "farming" deaths for them in the Luca sequence. Those three battles should be all that's needed to power up the bearer for the remainder of the game. Levels are another thing, but levels are only needed if you require somebody who needs rune slots unlocked. Rina is the only one that would be super-easy to level up to all of her slots quickly (for 3) but I'm still not convinced the third is necessary. It depends on what happens in the late-game routing.

The other big consideration is when a switchover would occur. The last on-the-way blacksmith is in Tinto, but the last on-the-way Runemaster is in Gregminster (ok, this one is out of the way, but if you're getting Cyclone...). If you're using double-strike, you'd likely have to revisit South Window or Two River after Tinto to switch the runes over, which is an extra 30 sec or more. If you switch over before, you won't be powered up for the Worm or Luca Fights if you choose an on-the-way 'smith. Best I can think of is that you'd have to teleport to Two River to get to Tigermouth for the first time, so may just do it then.

I disagree with Eilie in North Sparrow; if you have to farm for Double Beat, it's more effective to do it after the Troupe leaves your party for guaranteed Let Gos. Instead, my newer route simply uses Nanami for the initial bearer (she'll have deaths built up from Double Head and the Border anyway) and then "farming" deaths for them in the Luca sequence. Those three battles should be all that's needed to power up the bearer for the remainder of the game. Levels are another thing, but levels are only needed if you require somebody who needs rune slots unlocked. Rina is the only one that would be super-easy to level up to all of her slots quickly (for 3) but I'm still not convinced the third is necessary. It depends on what happens in the late-game routing.

The other big consideration is when a switchover would occur. The last on-the-way blacksmith is in Tinto, but the last on-the-way Runemaster is in Gregminster (ok, this one is out of the way, but if you're getting Cyclone...). If you're using double-strike, you'd likely have to revisit South Window or Two River after Tinto to switch the runes over, which is an extra 30 sec or more. If you switch over before, you won't be powered up for the Worm or Luca Fights if you choose an on-the-way 'smith. Best I can think of is that you'd have to teleport to Two River to get to Tigermouth for the first time, so may just do it then.

Vaslof

2013-03-07 09:12:50 am

I meant grinding as in fighting Cut Rabbit groups on the way. Hopefully they hit her for enough damage, or else you'd have to get a bandit encounter first to get her low. The great thing is that it's flexible. If you don't happen to get any good encounters on the way, then you can have someone else be the kindness rune bearer, or simply farm the deaths later.

Omnigamer

2013-03-09 12:13:37 am

All the things

In case anybody was curious, I can confirm that having Stallion before Matilda does not save time vs not having him. I did a "world tour" walkathon, and it took some 4 minutes to cover all of the ground that is needed during the Matilda quest with Stallion, vs 5:30 without. Normallized for encounters, the difference is about a minute. Just going out to Radat to recruit him eats up a minute, not to mention time spent recruiting other characters along the way. Not being able to escape some battles throws a little bit of a wrench into the numbers, but I still think you have a better overall time from not getting him until you have to go to Banner Village.

Otherwise, I'm up to Matilda in my routing. Bleh. I have some new ideas for later, especially with using Sacrificial Jizos for consistency in Violence strats, but I will need to test those bosses' damage ranges to make sure.

Omnigamer

2013-03-09 07:08:08 pm

All the things

Just a heads-up that I will be attempting a FULL RUN tomorrow at around 1 PM EDT. So long as I finish routing tonight, anyway...

DrDoobie

2013-03-09 11:02:10 pm

Ill be at work from 3pm est til 8pm so if I dont catch it live Ill catch the highlight. Looking forward to it omni!

Omnigamer

2013-03-10 12:35:32 am

All the things

Well, I didn't quite finish routing. I have everything up through Tinto, but there's still several critical bosses to get through and then the whole Beast Rune thing to plan out. I still want to do a healthy chunk of the game, but if I finish routing in the morning I'm not going to have enough time later in the day for an entire run. So I guess we'll call it a half-run tomorrow, with the later half coming on Monday?

Vaslof

2013-03-10 12:37:55 pm

When are you planning to start the first half of the run?

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-03-10 04:11:01 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-10 03:11:14 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-10 03:07:58 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-10 02:59:45 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-10 02:59:27 pm

2013-03-10 02:59:11 pm

All the things

At this point, I'm not sure. I may start during TSSB as much as I'd like to avoid it, but I only just finished routing and I need some relax time before putting more time into it today. In any case, my notes are below. They will need some slight tweaking, but for the most part should be accurate. Some experimental things are still marked. I'll refine them further as I run into bumps during attempts.

Important things to note:
-Jizos and Violence work together, sort of. It tallies the damage all the same, but if the hit that triggers Violence also triggers a Jizo, then Violence will not activate. Also, Jizos remove the Berserk, but not the Violence effect.
-Unite glitch is actually pretty easy and saves time throughout all of L'Ren. Just relying on Bearer for the later couple battles will drag them out and make it more dangerous.
-Beast Rune isn't much of an issue with my setup, but if you get trolled hard by status effects it can make it a little more iffy.
-In general the only equipment that you need to collect are a couple of the final armors and accessories for Riou so he can survive duels.
-Using the Tinto glitch saves upwards of a minute if you do it right on the first try. It's a very thin zone that you have to bypass. Once you're to the correct spot, you have to be running (hold O) and then press right/upright. After that you have 3 frames to go to straight Up in order to get by the zone.
-Luca is still going to be a tricky battle because he's so resistant to attack. He's probably the number one focus for a better strategy right now.
-Going back to the Greenhill wrongwarp, it makes sense if a the wrong quest flag is set. It is the very last scene to play before going to the Muse waiting scene and the the Stars of Destiny. Worth looking into further, I think, but probably goes back to save corruption. Looking at the file relating to loading that screen should yield some clues.
-The Kiba battle is the one big problem with War Battles right now. Supposedly you can take out his third hit as soon as Ridley appears, but I've never had success with this. Worse, trying to go into the battle actually drags things out. The last 3 turns can take more than a minute each, so being able to end it ASAP is a good chunk of time saved. Even so, it's very inconsistent. The JP strat gets Adlai and Jeane for extra map attacks, but I can't do that without L2 castle. It's probably worth it to investigate what affects the hit rate of map attacks.

OPENING: Say to go to sleep, then change message speed at the first opportunity. Go straight North to the wall, then fight the battle. Select bottom option when Jowy asks.

NOTE: For watching game time, check 0006AA52-56 for time. Hours:Minutes:Seconds

FORT & CHORES: Push the crates 2 at a time. Take 3 of everything. Get all the oil spots. When Jowy comes, elect not to resist. When questioned, choose bottom choice. Escape as normal.

RYUBE: Go over to circus act, elect to move right to end sooner. Check store if Flame Arrows available, don't heal. Head to North Sparrow.

NORTH SPARROW: Only fight Bunny groups. Pick up Escape Talisman, Flame Wall, Brass Armor. Hero only needs to be Lvl 3 for fight. BOSS PREP: Take Angry Blow from Rina, give Jowy extra boots, brass armor, angry blow. Give Flame Wall to Hero, and Flaming Arrows to Eilie. Heal before starting battle. CONSIDER: Alternate strat that may take 3 turns, saves Fire Wall.

KYARO: Go in from bottom, unequip troupe. Go through to house on left, take middle pot. Use Flaming Arrows on guards. Just use top choices. Don't save Nanami (after Viktor walks back).

DOUBLEBEAT: Farm for it on the way back. Pick up the Wind Hat too. Hopefully should get it on the way, but not always a possibility. Once back (35 min at Fort), go to Ryube and raise Pilika counter, also check shop. Go to Toto. Appraise Vase, check shop for Arrows and sell extra inventory. Do Pilika stuff, head for Coronet. Level up Hero weapon to 5. Go to Muse.

MUSE: Go left to shop. Choose 2nd option, then check for Flaming Arrows rare finds. Return to Toto. Be very careful of Sickle encounters.

FORT++: Go to Fort, after scenes go up and talk to Flik & Viktor, then go to Ryube. Go into forest, pick up nest, advance to Tsai's house. Pick up Tsai, walk back, pick up goods. Leave, choose bottom option. Go get Shiro & Kinnison. Return to Fort, go up and choose bottom option to duel Flik. Make sure to heal first. Should be strong enough at lvl 6 w/ weapon lvl 5, but can be instant fail if Flik attacks thrice. Go south to start next sequence. CORRECTION: Pick up Shiro & Kinnison after Fort burns.

BATTLES: Hitting Solon Zhee doesn't end the battle, so just run away or end turn. In next battle, go to entrance, then move away on 3rd turn. Fight battles and should get up to lvl 10. NOTE: game time goes at very slow speed during movies, and at times after battles. Go upstairs, go through scenes. After, go to Ryube and pick up Kinnison & Shiro. Then go to Toto and get Runes. Leaving the Fort should be at around the 1 hr mark.

RUNES AND STUFF: Get Shiro & Kinnison on way to Toto, get Hanna, get Runes. Then go to Muse, reunite with Nanami. Don't change formation. Go to White Deer Inn. After sleeping, try to go down immediately, Alex comes in. Choose bottom option. MAYBE do some prepwork here, might not be necessary.

RUINS: First room has Stone of Magic to left (meh). Go Up, up. Go up, across bridge, down and left, and then up. Go left, push, grab shoulder pads and circle. Go back to door, enter. Go left over bridge, get Fire Lizard and Triangle. Then go up, right. Trigger top of waterfall. Go back and then up, get Chain Mail across river. In riverbed, go down one screen, then left to get square. Then go back down and pick up Water. Go all the way back to initial riverbed entrance, then cross bridge to the left for Double Head.

5x Creeper gets all chars to level 11/10 if all alive. Not safe with minimal equip; need at least double beat and extra flaming arrows to stand a chance. Can get to ~1700 dmg without.

5x MegaWatt very dangerous, can hit back row and one-shot several of the chars. Bright does not 1-shot. Can clear with 2x AoE. Gets Heros to 12, everybody else 11.

4x Drake requires 2 AoE spells, and will raise Jowy/Hero levels as well (13). Gets remainder to 10/11.

3x Creeper and 2x MegaWatt is somewhat safe, one person may die but rest will jump to 12/11. ONLY APPEARS BEFORE PLACING TRIANGLE.

2x Creeper in first phase will get everybody to 7, winnable in one turn with Auto. After, 3x MegaWatt will get to 10s for all. 3x Creeper gets all to lvl 8. Basically any grouping in first part will allow easier fighting in 2nd and have roughly equivalent results.

Fighting Double Head with just 11s/12s and no other setup difficult; at least hook up Shiro with Double-Beat. With extra flaming arrows, can play it a little more risky. Watch damage closely; keep a calculator around? Take equips off Riou; he'll be fine without.

After battle, go through scenes, return one room south and Escape Talisman out. Go through rest of scenes, don't adjust formation. Head for Muse.

MUSE: Argh. Go to Muse, go through scenes. Top option is fine. After getting out of jail, go straight to Runemaster and take double-beat off of Shiro, then drop Pilika off with Leona. Go to Muse Hall and go through scenes, then talk to Jess. Bottom option. Go to blacksmith and put Fire Lizard on Riou. Go back to Inn and talk to Leona, then leave for Highlands border.

BORDER LEVELS: Progress through the forest quickly; fight rabbits when available, and take all equip from Nanami and Riou. Try to have Nanami killed off, and weaken Riou as much as possible. Armadillos not good to fight. Go into camp when sufficiently low, go into far tent and select top text boxes. After scene, go into big tent in center. Choose more top options. Then go straight down and left. In battle, kill off Riou then finish with Jowy Lvl 2. In following battle, either have Nanami use Medicine on Riou (48) or just use Riou Lvl 2 (dual 30s). Plan to use Dual 30s for regular route. Afterwards, return to Muse.

MUSE: Go up to the City Hall, try to enter room, then leave. Go to blacksmith, remove Fire Lizard. Go back to Leona, get Fliktor, go back to City Hall. Bottom option probably faster. Back in Inn, choose either, go out to front of Muse. Choose bottom option. Go through scenes, then go to Jowston Hill. Go through events, then go back to Inn. Bottom option. Remove good stuff from Jowy, then head down and talk to Viktor, top option. War battle start! Just end turn x7. Game Time should be around 2 hours for decent run.

MUSE PT2: Go down and talk to Nanami, either option. Go down to scenes, then City Hall for more scenes, then back to Inn. Watch scene, talk to Nanami, bottom option. Scenes, then go to City Hall. More scenes. Go left and into door. Then run to Inn and leave city.

KINDNESS EARLY: Go into Coronet, then all the way down to the soldier at the docks. Then back to Inn. After scenes, go to Tai Ho and win dice game. Then back to Tavern. Do not change formation. Now leave for Matilda. Matilda Glitch. Pick up Dragon Armor in Forest. Go down through Two River and then pick up Kindness in Lakewest. Take boat to Coronet and enter the "dock" part of the town sprite for a cutscene skip.

KUSKUS: Head down, attach Kindness to Nanami (make sure she has adequate deaths from earlier; 4-5). Leave and go to South Window.

SOUTH WINDOW: See Viktor, go to Inn. Then go to Mayor. On the way back, pick up the Friendship Rune. Go to Rune Shop and attach Double Beat to Nanami. Head back in to Inn, then leave for North Window (don't arrange). In North Window, choose bottom option, go to Cave of Wind.

CAVE OF WIND: Right, Up, Right, Up-Left, Left, Right, Up-Right, Up-left, left (rock puzzle). Wind Puzzle; push rock forward one tile and cross. Next room, push top rock forward one tile past first wind, then go over the top to cross. Third room, push bottom block forward just past furthest left, then push up all the way to access blue gate rune in top chest (3k potch in right). Continue to exit, Up, Down, Up-Left. Kahn, choose bottom option, don't change formation. Up, Right, Up. SD Sword fight. Just attack with Nanami on first and second turns to end battle.

NORTH WINDOW: Go up, take left passage, left. Keep going left, then down to first puzzle room. Move statue to center, go up. Light torch in next puzzle room (probably no need for Blue Ribbon?) then continue up. Grab Chain Mail from top chest (maybe?), make sure Nanami and Hero are equipped. Go in, watch scenes, fight Boss.

ABOMINATION: Open with Battle Oath, attack, and charm arrow. If Kindness gets berserked, over in two turns. Even if not, Charm Arrow should make over in 2. Actually, skip Battle Oath and just Charm Arrow instead. Should always be 2 turns, no danger.

SHU: After scenes, choose bottom option, or else. Then walk to Radat. Talk to Shu. Go to bar, then leave. Scenes, go to Richmond. Bottom. Inn. Sluice, bottom option. Talk to dude in upper left. Bottom option, bottom, bottom. Fight Amada. Go down and find coin. Return to North Window. Go to War Room, bottom option. Go back to War Room, talk to Shu. Bottom option.

NORTH WINDOW BATTLE: Move your junk unit two squares forward and make him fight solon jhee. Then just end turn until it finishes. After battle, in war room just do all top options. Afterwards, just go back to bed and choose bottom option. Go back in to War Room, choose top options. Whichever name. After scenes, go back to entrance for Fitcher, bottom option. Go back to War Room again, choose bottom option with Fitcher. Then go to Radat, fight Amada, come back to War Room. Can choose members. NOTE: Nanami is removeable for this sequence.

TWO RIVER: Head to docks, then to Lakewest and finally Two River. Don't have to go to entrance; just head straight to Winger town. Chase Chaco, and then head back to Mayor. Go to Inn. Upstairs, then back to Mayor. Top option, then bottom. Go to Kobold side, then down and chase Chaco some more. Enter Sewers.

SEWERS: Right, down, cross bridge and head to bottom right. Down, left, far upper left. Enter door to fight Pest Rat. Strategy: Nanami attacks 1st turn, then Hero uses Oath 2nd turn in case of damage. 2x cieling crumble will potentially kill if some minor damage. Should be dead by third turn; 2nd if berserk'd. Level 35 after battle. Go up and talk to Ridley, any options. Then go back to human side, Mayor, and then Inn (bottom option for Fitcher). Head outside, battles start. Destroy first wave with Shining Light, then go get Ridley. Top then bottom. Shining Light last wave; should be close to level 36. Go to Mayor, then leave city and pick up Chaco. Back to Castle.

GREENHILL: War Room. War Room again, talk to Shu. Only take Nanami and Luc; go to Greenhill through Two River; give Luc Water and Blue Gate on the way. Go up through Nina scene, into Academy. Talk to Emilia, then follow her to middle. Go to dorms, talk to secratary, 2nd floor bottom. Bottom option to sleep. Leave, go into town and to Inn in bottom left. Any option. Go back to dorm, go to sleep. Go into academy, then left to Nina. Go out and then into town. Back to dorm, either bottom option to sleep. Then go upstairs and down, then back to 1st floor, then into secret passage. Take secret entrance out to backyard.

BACKYARD: When in doubt, go left. Top options. Back in dorms, leave to town, choose any option. Fight Highlandsx5 twice on way to backyard. Highlandsx4, Highlandsx4 in backyard. Talk to Theresa, walk back (Escape Talisman does not work). Highlandsx5, Highlandsx5 if top choice. After scenes, Highlandsx4, Highlandsx4. Scene with Jowy, then go South some more. Head back to Castle. Go to sleep. Scenes, then pick party for Matilda. NOTE: Nanami optional, but forces way into party if not selected.

MATILDA: Go there through the forest and go through scenes. At Rockaxe, go through more scenes, enter throne room to hear about border stuff. After Miklotov leaves, choose bottom option. Hope that the refugees die quickly; seems more likely if they align horizontally. After, go South to Appraisal shop and check back shelf for Violence; use Runemaster to put on Nanami or Kindness Bearer. Go down to Border, bottom option, then continue to Muse for movie. Enter Muse, then go to upper left, fight Highlandx5. Then leave Muse and go to Rockaxe, castle, then after scenes end up back at your Castle.

HEADQUARTERS: go to War Room. More scenes. Back to War Room, Viktor joins. Use Viki to go to Radat. Choose bottom option, go down, then top option. Return to War Room. Deploy troops. In WAR BATTLE: move two dog troops and Flik + Viktor up. This will force enemies into forest. Move Gilbert to left once as well. On 2nd turn, move Viktor up one more step, then end turn until end of battle. Should minimize time spent moving vs attack animations. After, go to room and sleep. Scenes. Back to War Room.

KIBA BATTLE: Ends after a certain number of turns, or after Kiba's unit is killed. Can only be attacked for third hit after Ridley appears? Look into formulas for misc attacks; hopefully there's an easy way to damage him. Otherwise set up Luc with massive ATK units and pray. In any case, running away into trees seems like best bet for a good time. Still takes 7 minutes though. Use Fire Spears and Luc magic to take out weakened units, but otherwise just run away.

HEADQUARTERS: Select top option twice, then bottom option. Go through scenes. Go to entrance of Castle, see scene with Sheena, then LEAVE CASTLE in order to trigger lvl 2. Then go back in through bar and add in Nanami, Luc, and Flik (for easier runs) and up to War Room. Put Sheena in Convoy. Viki to go to Radat. Go to Sluice (right side) and take boat to Banner Village.

BANNER PASS: Just head straight to the Pass. For each fork: SE, S. Ladder area, take far ladder, right. 2 screens, the straight E. Worm on next screen; just use Nanami attacksx3. A crit will shorten turns by 1. Continue on to Gregminster.

GREGMINSTER: Immediately go out to Inn, upsatairs, talk to Sarah for Cyclone. Then go to Runemaster, place Cyclone on Luc. Also buy Mother Earth/Flowing runes if available. Go talk to Lepant, all top options. Leave back through the Pass. W, NW, SW, talk to Ridley and Apple AFTER unequipping everything from Flik and putting JIZOS on Nanami, also heal her.

HEADQUARTERS: Go to War Room. Talk to Nanami, then sleep and scenes. ***Before returning to War Room, go to Viki and teleport to Ryube, then Fort for Templton. Then go back to Viki and TP to Toto to finish getting Templton. Now War Room, go through Ridley event. If lucky, he will die before you even arrive. After scenes, go up to your room, and ignore Tsai with bottom option. Then sleep. Go to War Room. Make sure to arrange Hanna and Shu and Valeria first, and put Chaco and Tsai on Flik. In the battle, just wail on him with Flame Spear and Valeria and pray. After battle, go down to main Hall and pick up Ridley. Back to War Room.

NIGHT RAID: put in Nanami, Luc, and potential Kindness Bearers. Just auto with Flik and Viktor and hope they die. For Nanami... need a better strategy. Jizos break Violence effect, kind of, but leave you in Berserk even if you aren't marked as Berserk. Also can be dodged sometimes. On soldier battles, let Bearer be killed by them, then wipe them with Luc. Fully heal before battling Luca. NOTE: May need to buff your strength somehow for consistency. Look into blacksmith or attaching Friendship at some point, or both. If he regular attacks 3 times, you could be killed. ALSO: JIZO only breaks berserk, not Violence.

HEADQUARTERS: Scenes. Wake up, go with Nanami straight to Kuskus. Do Culgan stuff. Go back to War Room, then bottom choice with Teresa. Then go to Muse, bringing Stallion, Bearer and Luc. Can't teleport to Muse or Coronet, so just take boat as normal. Also, Blacksmith in Coronet; Give Fire Lizard to Bearer. Go to Muse, then Jowston Hill. Bottom option. Viktor joins, can go in convoy. One battle of Highlandx6, can run into other x6 battles randomly. Go to main hall for scene with Shu, then walk back to entrance. Bottom choice, bottom. Put Koyu in convoy. Add in Nanami. Go to Viki.

MOUTH VILLAGES: First take detour to Fort and get Templton. Then go to Toto to complete. Finish by going to Two River, switch over runes and recruit Jeane (if necessary??), also stock up on Jizos (5-6) and one Escape Talisman. Give doublebeat and Violence runes to new Kindness Bearer. If necessary, farm deaths in Pass with Fire Lizard. Talk to Gijimu in the mountains, and grab Master Robe. Go straight to Tinto.

TINTO: Go and switch KINDNESS to bearer. Then go straight up to Gustav. Top options for all. Back to Gustav's room, then city entrance. Back to Gustav's room. Scenes, talk to Gustav. Go to bed. Scenes, then talk to Nanami. Top choices, then go down to Gustav's room. Go to city entrance. After scene, go to mine and go inside. Just defend for 3 turns, run away (his lightning can do high damage). Scenes, end up in Crom. Add Luc, Stallion, Bearer back into party. Go straight to South Entrance to pick up Kahn; put in convoy. Go to Drakemouth, fight Sierra. Very easy fight, just use one Bearer attack and use Shredding with Luc. Put Sierra in Convoy. Return to Crom, center building in back. Go to bed. Scenes. Go through back exit to Tinto Mines.

TINTO MINES: NE, NE, W, NE, W, N, grab Master Garb on hill and exit E. Go through a couple, then W at fork. Go through loops and exit NE. E, far right chute, right again, go down to bottom for doublestrike if needed, then up ramp and down chute to get to final area. Push box. Go in to fight Golem. Kindness does 1800 first turn, then with a normal attack and Master Robe, Violence should trigger. Golem will fall after that. Also make sure to get levels up of Bearer if necessary; should be higher 30s. Escape Talisman out and use Tinto glitch to get by first zombies; can't dodge second group. Fastest way is to go long way and take elevator up, but one less zombie group. Should be all level 45 just before Neclord.

NECLORD: Gets 2 attacks per turn and is pretty fast. Use Stallion+Bearer for first hits. Bat form is weakest, but other attacks can hurt quite a bit. If uses AoE, should trigger Violence. Otherwise just beat on him. Restore any used Jizos. After defeating, go outside and talk to Gustav near entrance. Use top choices. If missed Mother Earth before, go grab it from Gustav now (maybe not needed??). On the way, level up Riou's weapon as high as possible. Leave and TP back to HQ. Sheena will join at stairs; put him in place of Viktor.

HEADQUARTERS: Consider putting LIGHTNING on Riou, if not already. Flik has one. Go to War Room, then your room. After scene, walk down stairs to Chaco, then go back to room. Fight Lucia. One Thor Shot and one Bolt of Wrath will end her. Top options good. Back to War Room. Top option first; put Templton + Chaco on Flik, then top, top. WAR BATTLE, run away as best as possible. Put all Cavalry to left wall, and move Gilbert down 3 tiles.

GREENHILL: Choose bottom option when Teresa asks. Add in Luc, Bearer, and Stallion. In Forest, Highlandx6. Next screen, grab Winged Boots (maybe?) on right path and keep going for Dream Robe. Attach to Bearer. Then continue on middle path. Highlandx6. Left path, then up and left. In Lucia battle, dispatch Karayans with Shredding, then just have Bearer dispatch her. Take left path all the way left. Highlandx6. Highlandx6. Into university. Outside, talk to student in red for full heal. Highlandx5, Highlandx5. Head straight down to start battle with Bone Dragon.

BONE DRAGON: Dragon Fireball attack does ~384 damage. Just enough for Violence at level 49. Flame Breath does ~260, also enough. Bite does 470 without armor; with armor should be just right. 2-turn wonder.

MUSE: after battle, bottom option. Leave, go into academy. Follow Lucia to backyard, scenes. Just Rush Flik to Muse entrace. Should be done in 4 turns. Put Viktor in convoy. Go straight to Muse Hall. Fight Wolf; should be easy. Just run straight down center to escape. After, go up to Shu's room. Talk to Shu after scene. Top option. Top option again. Scenes. Return to War Room. Bottom option. in WAR BATTLE: just end turn until reinforcements appear. Put Luc & Stallion in, and top option.

ROCKAXE: Follow path. Skip treasure. Left. Down ladder. Right. Up through door. Right to pick up EARTH SHIELD (for Sheena). Otherwise down ladder, then right. Enter castle. Flame Helmet in upper portion of room (can go through middle room) otherwise continue left. M-Knightx5. Go right, then upstairs. Outside, M-Knightx5. Try to go upstairs, then continue to scenes (NOTE: Can still get encounters on this screen). Choose nothing.

GORUDO: Use Hungry Fiend and Thor Shot, then Bolt of Wrath. Hungry Fiend only takes 9 seconds in game time. Piercing One takes 6 seconds game time. In scene after, wait for exactly 30 seconds for followup to trigger. Go talk to Shu, top then bottom options. Leave for more scenes. Leave towards Shu's room, scene, then go back to sleep. Back to War Room. Before continuing, make sure VIKI has LIGHTNING, Flik has FIRE and WATER, LUC has WATER, and HERO has WATER.

L'REN: Go through many scenes. When in front of Border, only a few lines before you gain control. If you haven't, rearrange CHACO and TEMPLTON on FLIK now. Then go to battle. Move Flik 3 frames forward to manipulate Han (maybe?). Otherwise just hope he doesn't move left. Continue and enter city when possible. Take Viki, Flik, Luc, Bearer, Stallion.

LUCIA: Not too much of a problem. Just attack with bearer. If she lands a phys attack, will instantly trigger Violence. Flame wheel will not; explosion might. Probably shouldn't worry if have excessive Jizos.

L'REN CASTLE: Left, all the way left, then up. Highlandx6. Continue Up, then follow path. Highlandx6. NOTE: Blinking Go! takes 6 game time sec. Go up through door, get to Han battle. Make sure Hero is equipped with stuff. Um... Try to make Hero as powerful as possible? Otherwise could take a while and be very dangerous. Grab Power Gloves and Crimson Cape in Rockaxe to help, also Power Ring in Tinto. He does roughly double damage to you even with them. After duel, head up either stairway, go straight down, Highlandx6, then left door, then up, left door, Highlandx6. Go up at fork, then after stairs go up, Highlandx6 and Left. Follow left path to outside, Highlandx6. Go around, enter and head right for Highlandx6. Follow path up and then right. Highlandx6, then in next room go all the way right, then up. Then all the way down, then up. Seed & Culgan after stairs, top option. NOTE: Unite glitch targets based off of Thor Shot. Thor takes 8 game seconds, Blazing takes 8ish.

SEED & CULGAN: Two different strats: start up, remove Dream Robe from Bearer, cast Silent Lake with Flik. If lucky, will attack Bearer and trigger Violence. Other strats is to Unite Glitch focused on Seed and then demolish Culgan. Second strat more consistent, but slightly (10 s) slower. After battle, top option, scenes. Go back and heal at save before beast battle.

BEAST RUNE: Gets 3 actions per turn across all parts. AoE spells do ~165 each, two will trigger Violence. Left Head can do AoE or single target, right head does the Swordfall. Right Leg can revive stuff, but does so only rarely. 2nd turn should have Rune dead and some damage on everything. If status effects were used in turn 1, heal with either Hero, Luc, or Flik, whoever can heal. Eventually, will be able to attack with Bearer and finish off heads. TURNS: 1st turn have Viki do Thor, Bearer attack, Flik Explosion, Stallion attack, Hero Mother Ocean/Silent Lake, and Luc Mother Ocean/Silent Lake. 2nd Turn, if Luc up, do Shining Wind. If Hero up, use Battle Oath. If Flik up, do Kindness Rain (if needed). Next turn Violence should be active, and have Bearer annihilate. Otherwise just attack as normal. Focus on Left Head. Note that even if Right Leg revives Rune, Shield won't be active on first turn coming back.

FINAL: Scenes, top option. Go to War Room, any option. DONE. Consider stopping and saving at crystal to show game time. ALSO: Greenhill is final scene before starting Stars of Destiny stuff. Even fades into the Muse waiting scene too. Very likely that some wrong trigger will cause this. In any case, DONE.

At this point, I'm not sure. I may start during TSSB as much as I'd like to avoid it, but I only just finished routing and I need some relax time before putting more time into it today. In any case, my notes are below. They will need some slight tweaking, but for the most part should be accurate. Some experimental things are still marked. I'll refine them further as I run into bumps during attempts.

Important things to note:
-Jizos and Violence work together, sort of. It tallies the damage all the same, but if the hit that triggers Violence also triggers a Jizo, then Violence will not activate. Also, Jizos remove the Berserk, but not the Violence effect.
-Unite glitch is actually pretty easy and saves time throughout all of L'Ren. Just relying on Bearer for the later couple battles will drag them out and make it more dangerous.
-Beast Rune isn't much of an issue with my setup, but if you get trolled hard by status effects it can make it a little more iffy.
-In general the only equipment that you need to collect are a couple of the final armors and accessories for Riou so he can survive duels.
-Using the Tinto glitch saves upwards of a minute if you do it right on the first try. It's a very thin zone that you have to bypass. Once you're to the correct spot, you have to be running (hold O) and then press right/upright. After that you have 3 frames to go to straight Up in order to get by the zone.
-Luca is still going to be a tricky battle because he's so resistant to attack. He's probably the number one focus for a better strategy right now.
-Going back to the Greenhill wrongwarp, it makes sense if a the wrong quest flag is set. It is the very last scene to play before going to the Muse waiting scene and the the Stars of Destiny. Worth looking into further, I think, but probably goes back to save corruption. Looking at the file relating to loading that screen should yield some clues.
-The Kiba battle is the one big problem with War Battles right now. Supposedly you can take out his third hit as soon as Ridley appears, but I've never had success with this. Worse, trying to go into the battle actually drags things out. The last 3 turns can take more than a minute each, so being able to end it ASAP is a good chunk of time saved. Even so, it's very inconsistent. The JP strat gets Adlai and Jeane for extra map attacks, but I can't do that without L2 castle. It's probably worth it to investigate what affects the hit rate of map attacks.

[hidden="Suikoden II Notes"]
OPENING: Say to go to sleep, then change message speed at the first opportunity. Go straight North to the wall, then fight the battle. Select bottom option when Jowy asks.

NOTE: For watching game time, check 0006AA52-56 for time. Hours:Minutes:Seconds

FORT & CHORES: Push the crates 2 at a time. Take 3 of everything. Get all the oil spots. When Jowy comes, elect not to resist. When questioned, choose bottom choice. Escape as normal.

RYUBE: Go over to circus act, elect to move right to end sooner. Check store if Flame Arrows available, don't heal. Head to North Sparrow.

NORTH SPARROW: Only fight Bunny groups. Pick up Escape Talisman, Flame Wall, Brass Armor. Hero only needs to be Lvl 3 for fight. BOSS PREP: Take Angry Blow from Rina, give Jowy extra boots, brass armor, angry blow. Give Flame Wall to Hero, and Flaming Arrows to Eilie. Heal before starting battle. CONSIDER: Alternate strat that may take 3 turns, saves Fire Wall.

KYARO: Go in from bottom, unequip troupe. Go through to house on left, take middle pot. Use Flaming Arrows on guards. Just use top choices. Don't save Nanami (after Viktor walks back).

DOUBLEBEAT: Farm for it on the way back. Pick up the Wind Hat too. Hopefully should get it on the way, but not always a possibility. Once back (35 min at Fort), go to Ryube and raise Pilika counter, also check shop. Go to Toto. Appraise Vase, check shop for Arrows and sell extra inventory. Do Pilika stuff, head for Coronet. Level up Hero weapon to 5. Go to Muse.

MUSE: Go left to shop. Choose 2nd option, then check for Flaming Arrows rare finds. Return to Toto. Be very careful of Sickle encounters.

FORT++: Go to Fort, after scenes go up and talk to Flik & Viktor, then go to Ryube. Go into forest, pick up nest, advance to Tsai's house. Pick up Tsai, walk back, pick up goods. Leave, choose bottom option. Go get Shiro & Kinnison. Return to Fort, go up and choose bottom option to duel Flik. Make sure to heal first. Should be strong enough at lvl 6 w/ weapon lvl 5, but can be instant fail if Flik attacks thrice. Go south to start next sequence. CORRECTION: Pick up Shiro & Kinnison after Fort burns.

BATTLES: Hitting Solon Zhee doesn't end the battle, so just run away or end turn. In next battle, go to entrance, then move away on 3rd turn. Fight battles and should get up to lvl 10. NOTE: game time goes at very slow speed during movies, and at times after battles. Go upstairs, go through scenes. After, go to Ryube and pick up Kinnison & Shiro. Then go to Toto and get Runes. Leaving the Fort should be at around the 1 hr mark.

RUNES AND STUFF: Get Shiro & Kinnison on way to Toto, get Hanna, get Runes. Then go to Muse, reunite with Nanami. Don't change formation. Go to White Deer Inn. After sleeping, try to go down immediately, Alex comes in. Choose bottom option. MAYBE do some prepwork here, might not be necessary.

RUINS: First room has Stone of Magic to left (meh). Go Up, up. Go up, across bridge, down and left, and then up. Go left, push, grab shoulder pads and circle. Go back to door, enter. Go left over bridge, get Fire Lizard and Triangle. Then go up, right. Trigger top of waterfall. Go back and then up, get Chain Mail across river. In riverbed, go down one screen, then left to get square. Then go back down and pick up Water. Go all the way back to initial riverbed entrance, then cross bridge to the left for Double Head.

5x Creeper gets all chars to level 11/10 if all alive. Not safe with minimal equip; need at least double beat and extra flaming arrows to stand a chance. Can get to ~1700 dmg without.

5x MegaWatt very dangerous, can hit back row and one-shot several of the chars. Bright does not 1-shot. Can clear with 2x AoE. Gets Heros to 12, everybody else 11.

4x Drake requires 2 AoE spells, and will raise Jowy/Hero levels as well (13). Gets remainder to 10/11.

3x Creeper and 2x MegaWatt is somewhat safe, one person may die but rest will jump to 12/11. ONLY APPEARS BEFORE PLACING TRIANGLE.

2x Creeper in first phase will get everybody to 7, winnable in one turn with Auto. After, 3x MegaWatt will get to 10s for all. 3x Creeper gets all to lvl 8. Basically any grouping in first part will allow easier fighting in 2nd and have roughly equivalent results.

Fighting Double Head with just 11s/12s and no other setup difficult; at least hook up Shiro with Double-Beat. With extra flaming arrows, can play it a little more risky. Watch damage closely; keep a calculator around? Take equips off Riou; he'll be fine without.

After battle, go through scenes, return one room south and Escape Talisman out. Go through rest of scenes, don't adjust formation. Head for Muse.

MUSE: Argh. Go to Muse, go through scenes. Top option is fine. After getting out of jail, go straight to Runemaster and take double-beat off of Shiro, then drop Pilika off with Leona. Go to Muse Hall and go through scenes, then talk to Jess. Bottom option. Go to blacksmith and put Fire Lizard on Riou. Go back to Inn and talk to Leona, then leave for Highlands border.

BORDER LEVELS: Progress through the forest quickly; fight rabbits when available, and take all equip from Nanami and Riou. Try to have Nanami killed off, and weaken Riou as much as possible. Armadillos not good to fight. Go into camp when sufficiently low, go into far tent and select top text boxes. After scene, go into big tent in center. Choose more top options. Then go straight down and left. In battle, kill off Riou then finish with Jowy Lvl 2. In following battle, either have Nanami use Medicine on Riou (48) or just use Riou Lvl 2 (dual 30s). Plan to use Dual 30s for regular route. Afterwards, return to Muse.

MUSE: Go up to the City Hall, try to enter room, then leave. Go to blacksmith, remove Fire Lizard. Go back to Leona, get Fliktor, go back to City Hall. Bottom option probably faster. Back in Inn, choose either, go out to front of Muse. Choose bottom option. Go through scenes, then go to Jowston Hill. Go through events, then go back to Inn. Bottom option. Remove good stuff from Jowy, then head down and talk to Viktor, top option. War battle start! Just end turn x7. Game Time should be around 2 hours for decent run.

MUSE PT2: Go down and talk to Nanami, either option. Go down to scenes, then City Hall for more scenes, then back to Inn. Watch scene, talk to Nanami, bottom option. Scenes, then go to City Hall. More scenes. Go left and into door. Then run to Inn and leave city.

KINDNESS EARLY: Go into Coronet, then all the way down to the soldier at the docks. Then back to Inn. After scenes, go to Tai Ho and win dice game. Then back to Tavern. Do not change formation. Now leave for Matilda. Matilda Glitch. Pick up Dragon Armor in Forest. Go down through Two River and then pick up Kindness in Lakewest. Take boat to Coronet and enter the "dock" part of the town sprite for a cutscene skip.

KUSKUS: Head down, attach Kindness to Nanami (make sure she has adequate deaths from earlier; 4-5). Leave and go to South Window.

SOUTH WINDOW: See Viktor, go to Inn. Then go to Mayor. On the way back, pick up the Friendship Rune. Go to Rune Shop and attach Double Beat to Nanami. Head back in to Inn, then leave for North Window (don't arrange). In North Window, choose bottom option, go to Cave of Wind.

CAVE OF WIND: Right, Up, Right, Up-Left, Left, Right, Up-Right, Up-left, left (rock puzzle). Wind Puzzle; push rock forward one tile and cross. Next room, push top rock forward one tile past first wind, then go over the top to cross. Third room, push bottom block forward just past furthest left, then push up all the way to access blue gate rune in top chest (3k potch in right). Continue to exit, Up, Down, Up-Left. Kahn, choose bottom option, don't change formation. Up, Right, Up. SD Sword fight. Just attack with Nanami on first and second turns to end battle.

NORTH WINDOW: Go up, take left passage, left. Keep going left, then down to first puzzle room. Move statue to center, go up. Light torch in next puzzle room (probably no need for Blue Ribbon?) then continue up. Grab Chain Mail from top chest (maybe?), make sure Nanami and Hero are equipped. Go in, watch scenes, fight Boss.

ABOMINATION: Open with Battle Oath, attack, and charm arrow. If Kindness gets berserked, over in two turns. Even if not, Charm Arrow should make over in 2. Actually, skip Battle Oath and just Charm Arrow instead. Should always be 2 turns, no danger.

SHU: After scenes, choose bottom option, or else. Then walk to Radat. Talk to Shu. Go to bar, then leave. Scenes, go to Richmond. Bottom. Inn. Sluice, bottom option. Talk to dude in upper left. Bottom option, bottom, bottom. Fight Amada. Go down and find coin. Return to North Window. Go to War Room, bottom option. Go back to War Room, talk to Shu. Bottom option.

NORTH WINDOW BATTLE: Move your junk unit two squares forward and make him fight solon jhee. Then just end turn until it finishes. After battle, in war room just do all top options. Afterwards, just go back to bed and choose bottom option. Go back in to War Room, choose top options. Whichever name. After scenes, go back to entrance for Fitcher, bottom option. Go back to War Room again, choose bottom option with Fitcher. Then go to Radat, fight Amada, come back to War Room. Can choose members. NOTE: Nanami is removeable for this sequence.

TWO RIVER: Head to docks, then to Lakewest and finally Two River. Don't have to go to entrance; just head straight to Winger town. Chase Chaco, and then head back to Mayor. Go to Inn. Upstairs, then back to Mayor. Top option, then bottom. Go to Kobold side, then down and chase Chaco some more. Enter Sewers.

SEWERS: Right, down, cross bridge and head to bottom right. Down, left, far upper left. Enter door to fight Pest Rat. Strategy: Nanami attacks 1st turn, then Hero uses Oath 2nd turn in case of damage. 2x cieling crumble will potentially kill if some minor damage. Should be dead by third turn; 2nd if berserk'd. Level 35 after battle. Go up and talk to Ridley, any options. Then go back to human side, Mayor, and then Inn (bottom option for Fitcher). Head outside, battles start. Destroy first wave with Shining Light, then go get Ridley. Top then bottom. Shining Light last wave; should be close to level 36. Go to Mayor, then leave city and pick up Chaco. Back to Castle.

GREENHILL: War Room. War Room again, talk to Shu. Only take Nanami and Luc; go to Greenhill through Two River; give Luc Water and Blue Gate on the way. Go up through Nina scene, into Academy. Talk to Emilia, then follow her to middle. Go to dorms, talk to secratary, 2nd floor bottom. Bottom option to sleep. Leave, go into town and to Inn in bottom left. Any option. Go  back to dorm, go to sleep. Go into academy, then left to Nina. Go out and then into town. Back to dorm, either bottom option to sleep. Then go upstairs and down, then back to 1st floor, then into secret passage. Take secret entrance out to backyard.

BACKYARD: When in doubt, go left. Top options. Back in dorms, leave to town, choose any option. Fight Highlandsx5 twice on way to backyard. Highlandsx4, Highlandsx4 in backyard. Talk to Theresa, walk back (Escape Talisman does not work). Highlandsx5, Highlandsx5 if top choice. After scenes, Highlandsx4, Highlandsx4. Scene with Jowy, then go South some more. Head back to Castle. Go to sleep. Scenes, then pick party for Matilda. NOTE: Nanami optional, but forces way into party if not selected.

MATILDA: Go there through the forest and go through scenes. At Rockaxe, go through more scenes, enter throne room to hear about border stuff. After Miklotov leaves, choose bottom option. Hope that the refugees die quickly; seems more likely if they align horizontally. After, go South to Appraisal shop and check back shelf for Violence; use Runemaster to put on Nanami or Kindness Bearer. Go down to Border, bottom option, then continue to Muse for movie. Enter Muse, then go to upper left, fight Highlandx5. Then leave Muse and go to Rockaxe, castle, then after scenes end up back at your Castle.

HEADQUARTERS: go to War Room. More scenes. Back to War Room, Viktor joins. Use Viki to go to Radat. Choose bottom option, go down, then top option. Return to War Room. Deploy troops. In WAR BATTLE: move two dog troops and Flik + Viktor up. This will force enemies into forest. Move Gilbert to left once as well. On 2nd turn, move Viktor up one more step, then end turn until end of battle. Should minimize time spent moving vs attack animations. After, go to room and sleep. Scenes. Back to War Room.

KIBA BATTLE: Ends after a certain number of turns, or after Kiba's unit is killed. Can only be attacked for third hit after Ridley appears? Look into formulas for misc attacks; hopefully there's an easy way to damage him. Otherwise set up Luc with massive ATK units and pray. In any case, running away into trees seems like best bet for a good time. Still takes 7 minutes though. Use Fire Spears and Luc magic to take out weakened units, but otherwise just run away.

HEADQUARTERS: Select top option twice, then bottom option. Go through scenes. Go to entrance of Castle, see scene with Sheena, then LEAVE CASTLE in order to trigger lvl 2. Then go back in through bar and add in Nanami, Luc, and Flik (for easier runs) and up to War Room. Put Sheena in Convoy. Viki to go to Radat. Go to Sluice (right side) and take boat to Banner Village.

BANNER PASS: Just head straight to the Pass. For each fork: SE, S. Ladder area, take far ladder, right. 2 screens, the straight E. Worm on next screen; just use Nanami attacksx3. A crit will shorten turns by 1. Continue on to Gregminster.

GREGMINSTER: Immediately go out to Inn, upsatairs, talk to Sarah for Cyclone. Then go to Runemaster, place Cyclone on Luc. Also buy Mother Earth/Flowing runes if available. Go talk to Lepant, all top options. Leave back through the Pass. W, NW, SW, talk to Ridley and Apple AFTER unequipping everything from Flik and putting JIZOS on Nanami, also heal her.

HEADQUARTERS: Go to War Room. Talk to Nanami, then sleep and scenes. ***Before returning to War Room, go to Viki and teleport to Ryube, then Fort for Templton. Then go back to Viki and TP to Toto to finish getting Templton. Now War Room, go through Ridley event. If lucky, he will die before you even arrive. After scenes, go up to your room, and ignore Tsai with bottom option. Then sleep. Go to War Room. Make sure to arrange Hanna and Shu and Valeria first, and put Chaco and Tsai on Flik. In the battle, just wail on him with Flame Spear and Valeria and pray. After battle, go down to main Hall and pick up Ridley. Back to War Room.

NIGHT RAID: put in Nanami, Luc, and potential Kindness Bearers. Just auto with Flik and Viktor and hope they die. For Nanami... need a better strategy. Jizos break Violence effect, kind of, but leave you in Berserk even if you aren't marked as Berserk. Also can be dodged sometimes. On soldier battles, let Bearer be killed by them, then wipe them with Luc. Fully heal before battling Luca. NOTE: May need to buff your strength somehow for consistency. Look into blacksmith or attaching Friendship at some point, or both. If he regular attacks 3 times, you could be killed. ALSO: JIZO only breaks berserk, not Violence.

HEADQUARTERS: Scenes. Wake up, go with Nanami straight to Kuskus. Do Culgan stuff. Go back to War Room, then bottom choice with Teresa. Then go to Muse, bringing Stallion, Bearer and Luc. Can't teleport to Muse or Coronet, so just take boat as normal. Also, Blacksmith in Coronet; Give Fire Lizard to Bearer. Go to Muse, then Jowston Hill. Bottom option. Viktor joins, can go in convoy. One battle of Highlandx6, can run into other x6 battles randomly. Go to main hall for scene with Shu, then walk back to entrance. Bottom choice, bottom. Put Koyu in convoy. Add in Nanami. Go to Viki.

MOUTH VILLAGES: First take detour to Fort and get Templton. Then go to Toto to complete. Finish by going to Two River, switch over runes and recruit Jeane (if necessary??), also stock up on Jizos (5-6) and one Escape Talisman. Give doublebeat and Violence runes to new Kindness Bearer. If necessary, farm deaths in Pass with Fire Lizard. Talk to Gijimu in the mountains, and grab Master Robe. Go straight to Tinto.

TINTO: Go and switch KINDNESS to bearer. Then go straight up to Gustav. Top options for all. Back to Gustav's room, then city entrance. Back to Gustav's room. Scenes, talk to Gustav. Go to bed. Scenes, then talk to Nanami. Top choices, then go down to Gustav's room. Go to city entrance. After scene, go to mine and go inside. Just defend for 3 turns, run away (his lightning can do high damage). Scenes, end up in Crom. Add Luc, Stallion, Bearer back into party. Go straight to South Entrance to pick up Kahn; put in convoy. Go to Drakemouth, fight Sierra. Very easy fight, just use one Bearer attack and use Shredding with Luc. Put Sierra in Convoy. Return to Crom, center building in back. Go to bed. Scenes. Go through back exit to Tinto Mines.

TINTO MINES: NE, NE, W, NE, W, N, grab Master Garb on hill and exit E. Go through a couple, then W at fork. Go through loops and exit NE. E, far right chute, right again, go down to bottom for doublestrike if needed, then up ramp and down chute to get to final area. Push box. Go in to fight Golem. Kindness does 1800 first turn, then with a normal attack and Master Robe, Violence should trigger. Golem will fall after that. Also make sure to get levels up of Bearer if necessary; should be higher 30s. Escape Talisman out and use Tinto glitch to get by first zombies; can't dodge second group. Fastest way is to go long way and take elevator up, but one less zombie group. Should be all level 45 just before Neclord.

NECLORD: Gets 2 attacks per turn and is pretty fast. Use Stallion+Bearer for first hits. Bat form is weakest, but other attacks can hurt quite a bit. If uses AoE, should trigger Violence. Otherwise just beat on him. Restore any used Jizos. After defeating, go outside and talk to Gustav near entrance. Use top choices. If missed Mother Earth before, go grab it from Gustav now (maybe not needed??). On the way, level up Riou's weapon as high as possible. Leave and TP back to HQ. Sheena will join at stairs; put him in place of Viktor.

HEADQUARTERS: Consider putting LIGHTNING on Riou, if not already. Flik has one. Go to War Room, then your room. After scene, walk down stairs to Chaco, then go back to room. Fight Lucia. One Thor Shot and one Bolt of Wrath will end her. Top options good. Back to War Room. Top option first; put Templton + Chaco on Flik, then top, top. WAR BATTLE, run away as best as possible. Put all Cavalry to left wall, and move Gilbert down 3 tiles.

GREENHILL: Choose bottom option when Teresa asks. Add in Luc, Bearer, and Stallion. In Forest, Highlandx6. Next screen, grab Winged Boots (maybe?) on right path and keep going for Dream Robe. Attach to Bearer. Then continue on middle path. Highlandx6. Left path, then up and left. In Lucia battle, dispatch Karayans with Shredding, then just have Bearer dispatch her. Take left path all the way left. Highlandx6. Highlandx6. Into university. Outside, talk to student in red for full heal. Highlandx5, Highlandx5. Head straight down to start battle with Bone Dragon.

BONE DRAGON: Dragon Fireball attack does ~384 damage. Just enough for Violence at level 49. Flame Breath does ~260, also enough.  Bite does 470 without armor; with armor should be just right. 2-turn wonder.

MUSE: after battle, bottom option. Leave, go into academy. Follow Lucia to backyard, scenes. Just Rush Flik to Muse entrace. Should be done in 4 turns. Put Viktor in convoy. Go straight to Muse Hall. Fight Wolf; should be easy. Just run straight down center to escape. After, go up to Shu's room. Talk to Shu after scene. Top option. Top option again. Scenes. Return to War Room. Bottom option. in WAR BATTLE: just end turn until reinforcements appear. Put Luc & Stallion in, and top option.

ROCKAXE: Follow path. Skip treasure. Left. Down ladder. Right. Up through door. Right to pick up EARTH SHIELD (for Sheena). Otherwise down ladder, then right. Enter castle. Flame Helmet in upper portion of room (can go through middle room) otherwise continue left. M-Knightx5. Go right, then upstairs. Outside, M-Knightx5. Try to go upstairs, then continue to scenes (NOTE: Can still get encounters on this screen). Choose nothing.

GORUDO: Use Hungry Fiend and Thor Shot, then Bolt of Wrath. Hungry Fiend only takes 9 seconds in game time. Piercing One takes 6 seconds game time. In scene after, wait for exactly 30 seconds for followup to trigger. Go talk to Shu, top then bottom options. Leave for more scenes. Leave towards Shu's room, scene, then go back to sleep. Back to War Room. Before continuing, make sure VIKI has LIGHTNING, Flik has FIRE and WATER, LUC has WATER, and HERO has WATER.

L'REN: Go through many scenes. When in front of Border, only a few lines before you gain control. If you haven't, rearrange CHACO and TEMPLTON on FLIK now. Then go to battle. Move Flik 3 frames forward to manipulate Han (maybe?). Otherwise just hope he doesn't move left. Continue and enter city when possible. Take Viki, Flik, Luc, Bearer, Stallion.

LUCIA: Not too much of a problem. Just attack with bearer. If she lands a phys attack, will instantly trigger Violence. Flame wheel will not; explosion might. Probably shouldn't worry if have excessive Jizos.

L'REN CASTLE: Left, all the way left, then up. Highlandx6. Continue Up, then follow path. Highlandx6. NOTE: Blinking Go! takes 6 game time sec. Go up through door, get to Han battle. Make sure Hero is equipped with stuff. Um... Try to make Hero as powerful as possible? Otherwise could take a while and be very dangerous. Grab Power Gloves and Crimson Cape in Rockaxe to help, also Power Ring in Tinto. He does roughly double damage to you even with them. After duel, head up either stairway, go straight down, Highlandx6, then left door, then up, left door, Highlandx6. Go up at fork, then after stairs go up, Highlandx6 and Left. Follow left path to outside, Highlandx6. Go around, enter and head right for Highlandx6. Follow path up and then right. Highlandx6, then in next room go all the way right, then up. Then all the way down, then up. Seed & Culgan after stairs, top option. NOTE: Unite glitch targets based off of Thor Shot. Thor takes 8 game seconds, Blazing takes 8ish.

SEED & CULGAN: Two different strats: start up, remove Dream Robe from Bearer, cast Silent Lake with Flik. If lucky, will attack Bearer and trigger Violence. Other strats is to Unite Glitch focused on Seed and then demolish Culgan. Second strat more consistent, but slightly (10 s) slower. After battle, top option, scenes. Go back and heal at save before beast battle.

BEAST RUNE: Gets 3 actions per turn across all parts. AoE spells do ~165 each, two will trigger Violence. Left Head can do AoE or single target, right head does the Swordfall. Right Leg can revive stuff, but does so only rarely.  2nd turn should have Rune dead and some damage on everything. If status effects were used in turn 1, heal with either Hero, Luc, or Flik, whoever can heal. Eventually, will be able to attack with Bearer and finish off heads. TURNS: 1st turn have Viki do Thor, Bearer attack, Flik Explosion, Stallion attack, Hero Mother Ocean/Silent Lake, and Luc Mother Ocean/Silent Lake. 2nd Turn, if Luc up, do Shining Wind. If Hero up, use Battle Oath. If Flik up, do Kindness Rain (if needed). Next turn Violence should be active, and have Bearer annihilate. Otherwise just attack as normal. Focus on Left Head. Note that even if Right Leg revives Rune, Shield won't be active on first turn coming back.

FINAL: Scenes, top option. Go to War Room, any option. DONE. Consider stopping and saving at crystal to show game time. ALSO: Greenhill is final scene before starting Stars of Destiny stuff. Even fades into the Muse waiting scene too. Very likely that some wrong trigger will cause this. In any case, DONE.[/hidden]

Omnigamer

2013-03-11 02:52:21 am

All the things

I'm confused about the JP time. His notes list a 7:04 Beast Rune kill and 7:23 or so for "The End", but the time listed on the wiki is 6:46. I guess that's just one that he didn't include in the notes? Even so, I'm dubious of him beating Beast Rune at 6:30 without glitches, unless turbo makes that much of a difference. Frankly, a lot of our strats are better, and never having to set up people or grind saves probably 10 minutes or more over the course of the run. Bah, I'll worry about it tomorrow.

Oh yeah, pseudo-SS time on US version in 7:16:xx as of accepting your position as ruler. Easily 20 minutes to clean up, but I don't know about 30-45 minutes. Oh well.

Vaslof

Edit history:

Vaslof: 2013-03-11 10:30:39 am

2013-03-11 09:51:01 am

He was almost 30min ahead of you at some point, just comparing to his 7:04 documented run. We can tell from the notes that there's plenty of things to improve, and then there's execution to consider. It's believable that 6:46 can be done. EDIT: Oh it was 6:30 for Beast Rune, that is pushing it..

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-03-11 10:12:11 am

Omnigamer: 2013-03-11 10:12:08 am

Omnigamer: 2013-03-11 10:12:07 am

2013-03-11 10:11:09 am

All the things

I could believe 6:46, but not with a)the extra characters he gets, b) timing going up until "The End" (15 minutes of credits) and c)the extra time spent preparing for/killing bosses, especially glitchless. Last half of the run not withstanding, I was about ~7 minutes behind after Greenhill with excellent double beat luck and generally clean play, while skipping 4 extra recruits and faster boss battles. It widened after that, but I don't think it should have outside of a few of the War Battles and some sloppy setup. It could be that turbo makes that much of a difference, but I guess I need to try it myself. I also don't know if there are any version differences associated with the "PS1 Best" edition, as both times on the wiki are marked for it.

I have some more thoughts coming for improvements to the route that I'll post later after I organize them.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-03-11 06:24:55 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-11 05:22:11 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-11 04:25:27 pm

2013-03-11 04:11:29 pm

All the things

OK, some thoughts now that I've had last night's run to sink in.

-Optimized switching for Kindness Bearer. My current thinking is to leave Kindness on Nanami until the last possible moment (Tinto blacksmith after Neclord or take a detour to Kuskus after Greenhill liberation, if that's even possible). This way you minimize the number of deaths needed for the Bearer and consequently the amount of time spent farming deaths. At this point I'm considering Kinnison as the alternate Bearer since he has a guaranteed death on Double Head and then another forced death on Luca (can use the groups after him to level him up). This should be enough for the very last portion of the game where he's needed. Kindness isn't needed at all in Rockaxe since Luc just dispatches the forced encounters. Even in L'Ren, the Bearer is only needed for finishing off the bosses after Unite Glitch messes them up. Eilie is the only one to consider for permanent Kindness, but the problem is when and where to farm deaths on her. North Sparrow after Mist Monster (have her die there) is one option, but that's 6 or so more deaths. Seems like a bit much to plan for, and you're not exactly impervious to enemy attacks at that point either. I guess it would be possible to merge with Double Beat farming, but even then you have a problem if your luck is too good. The reason I'm not considering it too strongly is that you need to make trips to Runemasters and Blacksmiths regardless for setting up Unite glitch and powering up Riou's weapon.
-Middle-game fleeing. Your chances at running are still decent throughout most of the game, but failing just a few times can add minutes to the run. Other than finding a different, more efficient way to power level, I am thinking back to using the Infinite Potch glitch and bribing mid-game enemies instead. The setup depends entirely on how much money you have, but this is where a slight detour comes in: during Kindness Early, head up to Rockaxe and enter the armor shop. Then recruit Hans on your way through Two River. There are a variety of expensive and not-so-expensive things in the Rockaxe Armory, so it should be easy to get to a reasonable amount of money to glitch with. I haven't checked, but it may even be possible to do the glitch during your first visit to North Window. It takes about ~45 seconds to go out of your way to visit the armor shop, and then another 20 to recruit Hans. Considering that two unescapable encounters can add up to about a minute of lost time, I think it will be worth it.
-Going back to recruiting more characters, I'm considering some small route changes that may make it possible to get Stallion before Matilda with minimal time. May not be necessary, but I'm not sure how long the inf potch glitch can last at that point in the game. Single battles can cost you some 30-50k in Banner Pass, and a bit less on the way to Matilda. I don't think the time that Stallion saves is overall worth it, but if it ties in well with the inf potch glitch then it's probably worth it. Especially if the new route incorporates Adlai and a few others. Convenient access to Jeane earlier is good too. Planning out which characters would be fastest to pick up is another matter, though.
-During Power Up phase at border, I'm considering having Riou alone survive and become level 48. Getting Nanami to 48 wouldn't be as helpful since I still need to trigger Violence more often, but it is questionable how robust she will be for Pest Rat. Using Shining Light on a couple of high-enemy battles in the Sewers should power her up enough to survive though.

There are plenty of other minor things to note, but those are some main points right now.

EDIT: The route currently gets the following characters. Required is a direct part of the route, while everybody else is optional for some reason or another.

Required (27):

1. Riou
2. Nanami
3. Gengen
4. Kinnison
5. Shiro
6. Apple
7. Hanna
8. Tsai
9. Tuta
10. Bolgan
11. Eilie
12. Rina
13. Flik
14. Viktor
15. Freed Y
16. Shu
17. Barbara
18. Huan
19. Leona
20. Luc
21. Amada
22. Chaco
23. Fitcher
24. Ridley
25. Teresa
26. Nina
27. Shin

Optional (need 5):
-Mukumuku
-Rikimaru
-Gilbert*
-Oulan
-Richmond
-Yoshino
+Alex
+Hilda
+Adlai
-Taki
+Hans
+Emilia

Getting Adlai will probably save a little time, since he instantly teleports you back to HQ, and Alex + Hilda come as a combo with just some talking. Hans is fairly quick and may be part of the route if we include inf potch. Emilia is also fairly quick, but should be left as a backup in case Gilbert cannot join in the Muse battle, since you have no control over it. Those are my current thoughts.

EDIT 2: Areas covered by inf potch are as follows:

-South Window overworld*
-Cave of Wind*
-North Window*
-Lakewest area
-Two River
-Greenhill travelling & Greenhill Forest
+Greenhill/Matilda forest
+Rockaxe
+Muse area
+Banner Pass

*- areas where you should be able to Let Go most encounters. South Window area sometimes has exceptions.
+- areas where you can have Stallion if you get extra people and trek to get him early.

Looking through this, there are 3 options:
1. Get Stallion ASAP and do inf potch to guarantee running the entire way. Gets Jeane, Adlai.
2. Do only inf potch glitch and hope it lasts until you're done with Banner Pass. Skips Jeane, maybe Adlai.
3. Recruit Emilia instead of Hans and just get Stallion early. Gives Jeane, Adlai, some time spent setting up and going to fetch Stallion.

Right now I'm leaning towards #3. The areas where you can't run away are fairly short (Two River, Greenhill), so the impact should be minimal there. Escape rate is still pretty decent if I remember right. Jeane and Adlai help in 2 war battles (maybe) but having Jeane available provides more options of when to switch runes. Also, the inf potch glitch still requires some annoying setup.

OK, some thoughts now that I've had last night's run to sink in.

-Optimized switching for Kindness Bearer. My current thinking is to leave Kindness on Nanami until the last possible moment (Tinto blacksmith after Neclord or take a detour to Kuskus after Greenhill liberation, if that's even possible). This way you minimize the number of deaths needed for the Bearer and consequently the amount of time spent farming deaths. At this point I'm considering Kinnison as the alternate Bearer since he has a guaranteed death on Double Head and then another forced death on Luca (can use the groups after him to level him up). This should be enough for the very last portion of the game where he's needed. Kindness isn't needed at all in Rockaxe since Luc just dispatches the forced encounters. Even in L'Ren, the Bearer is only needed for finishing off the bosses after Unite Glitch messes them up. Eilie is the only one to consider for permanent Kindness, but the problem is when and where to farm deaths on her. North Sparrow after Mist Monster (have her die there) is one option, but that's 6 or so more deaths. Seems like a bit much to plan for, and you're not exactly impervious to enemy attacks at that point either. I guess it would be possible to merge with Double Beat farming, but even then you have a problem if your luck is [i]too[/i] good. The reason I'm not considering it too strongly is that you need to make trips to Runemasters and Blacksmiths regardless for setting up Unite glitch and powering up Riou's weapon.
-Middle-game fleeing. Your chances at running are still decent throughout most of the game, but failing just a few times can add minutes to the run. Other than finding a different, more efficient way to power level, I am thinking back to using the Infinite Potch glitch and bribing mid-game enemies instead. The setup depends entirely on how much money you have, but this is where a slight detour comes in: during Kindness Early, head up to Rockaxe and enter the armor shop. Then recruit Hans on your way through Two River. There are a variety of expensive and not-so-expensive things in the Rockaxe Armory, so it should be easy to get to a reasonable amount of money to glitch with. I haven't checked, but it may even be possible to do the glitch during your first visit to North Window. It takes about ~45 seconds to go out of your way to visit the armor shop, and then another 20 to recruit Hans. Considering that two unescapable encounters can add up to about a minute of lost time, I think it will be worth it.
-Going back to recruiting more characters, I'm considering some small route changes that may make it possible to get Stallion before Matilda with minimal time. May not be necessary, but I'm not sure how long the inf potch glitch can last at that point in the game. Single battles can cost you some 30-50k in Banner Pass, and a bit less on the way to Matilda. I don't think the time that Stallion saves is overall worth it, but if it ties in well with the inf potch glitch then it's probably worth it. Especially if the new route incorporates Adlai and a few others. Convenient access to Jeane earlier is good too. Planning out which characters would be fastest to pick up is another matter, though.
-During Power Up phase at border, I'm considering having Riou alone survive and become level 48. Getting Nanami to 48 wouldn't be as helpful since I still need to trigger Violence more often, but it is questionable how robust she will be for Pest Rat. Using Shining Light on a couple of high-enemy battles in the Sewers should power her up enough to survive though.

There are plenty of other minor things to note, but those are some main points right now.

EDIT: The route currently gets the following characters. Required is a direct part of the route, while everybody else is optional for some reason or another.

Required (27):

1. Riou
2. Nanami
3. Gengen
4. Kinnison
5. Shiro
6. Apple
7. Hanna
8. Tsai
9. Tuta
10. Bolgan
11. Eilie
12. Rina
13. Flik
14. Viktor
15. Freed Y
16. Shu
17. Barbara
18. Huan
19. Leona
20. Luc
21. Amada
22. Chaco
23. Fitcher
24. Ridley
25. Teresa
26. Nina
27. Shin

Optional (need 5):
-Mukumuku
-Rikimaru
-Gilbert*
-Oulan
-Richmond
-Yoshino
+Alex
+Hilda
+Adlai
-Taki
+Hans
+Emilia

Getting Adlai will probably save a little time, since he instantly teleports you back to HQ, and Alex + Hilda come as a combo with just some talking. Hans is fairly quick and may be part of the route if we include inf potch. Emilia is also fairly quick, but should be left as a backup in case Gilbert cannot join in the Muse battle, since you have no control over it. Those are my current thoughts.

EDIT 2: Areas covered by inf potch are as follows:

-South Window overworld*
-Cave of Wind*
-North Window*
-Lakewest area
-Two River
-Greenhill travelling & Greenhill Forest
+Greenhill/Matilda forest
+Rockaxe
+Muse area
+Banner Pass

*- areas where you should be able to Let Go most encounters. South Window area sometimes has exceptions.
+- areas where you can have Stallion if you get extra people and trek to get him early.

Looking through this, there are 3 options:
1. Get Stallion ASAP and do inf potch to guarantee running the entire way. Gets Jeane, Adlai.
2. Do only inf potch glitch and hope it lasts until you're done with Banner Pass. Skips Jeane, maybe Adlai.
3. Recruit Emilia instead of Hans and just get Stallion early. Gives Jeane, Adlai, some time spent setting up and going to fetch Stallion.

Right now I'm leaning towards #3. The areas where you can't run away are fairly short (Two River, Greenhill), so the impact should be minimal there. Escape rate is still pretty decent if I remember right. Jeane and Adlai help in 2 war battles (maybe) but having Jeane available provides more options of when to switch runes. Also, the inf potch glitch still requires some annoying setup.

Omnigamer

2013-03-13 11:09:18 pm

All the things

Kindness crossovers:

0:30 - North Sparrow; Nanami & Kinny -1 at Double Head
1:30 - Border/Muse; Nanami +1, -2 or more from randoms and soldiers
2:30 - Abomination/Shu; Nanami +1
3:30 - Greenhill; Nanami +1, bearer unnecessary
4:30 - Banner Pass; Nanami/Bearer +1
5:30 - Tinto; Nanami/Bearer +1
6:30 - Rockaxe/Gorudo/L'Ren; Bearer +1 if L'Ren, Nanami -1... Kappa

Basically, if a character is in your party during a x:30 mark, they receive one Kindness point. The goal would be to minimize this and come up with the lowest number of times to kill off your characters. Nanami is the easiest to set up, but since she's required in most times then she will guaranteed gain the Kindness points as well. she needs a minimum of 6 deaths to last out her usefulness. She gets 2-3 just from the strats up until power-levelling. Kinnison also gets a guaranteed death against Double Head, but if you're not quick enough in Muse he'll gain a Kindness point before he leaves your party. He's sufficient with just 1 death if and only if you have him leave the party in Muse before the :30 mark, but you can get him an easy 2nd death against Luca. With him as Bearer you also get the benefit of a Unite with Stallion: x.5 against all enemies. It takes 10 game seconds, but if I rely on that in Greenhill 2 and L'Ren then I don't have to ever get Cyclone for Luc. Feels like a worthy trade to me.

Kindness crossovers:

0:30 - North Sparrow; Nanami & Kinny -1 at Double Head
1:30 - Border/Muse; Nanami +1, -2 or more from randoms and soldiers
2:30 - Abomination/Shu; Nanami +1
3:30 - Greenhill; Nanami +1, bearer unnecessary
4:30 - Banner Pass; Nanami/Bearer +1
5:30 - Tinto; Nanami/Bearer +1
6:30 - Rockaxe/Gorudo/L'Ren; Bearer +1 if L'Ren, Nanami -1... Kappa

Basically, if a character is in your party during a x:30 mark, they receive one Kindness point. The goal would be to minimize this and come up with the lowest number of times to kill off your characters. Nanami is the easiest to set up, but since she's required in most times then she will guaranteed gain the Kindness points as well. she needs a minimum of 6 deaths to last out her usefulness. She gets 2-3 just from the strats up until power-levelling. Kinnison also gets a guaranteed death against Double Head, but if you're not quick enough in Muse he'll gain a Kindness point before he leaves your party. He's sufficient with just 1 death if and only if you have him leave the party in Muse before the :30 mark, but you can get him an easy 2nd death against Luca. With him as Bearer you also get the benefit of a Unite with Stallion: x.5 against all enemies. It takes 10 game seconds, but if I rely on that in Greenhill 2 and L'Ren then I don't have to ever get Cyclone for Luc. Feels like a worthy trade to me.

Omnigamer

2013-03-14 11:27:46 am

Something to look into for anybody curious about the Greenhill wrongwarp:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/198844-suikoden-ii/faqs/7234

This leaves 3403 bytes out of 16384 that are known in the save, or about 20.7%. That's still a lot of space to look up binary data, especially since a lot of it will be quest flags and the like.

Omnigamer

Edit history:

Omnigamer: 2013-03-18 10:27:32 pm

Omnigamer: 2013-03-18 06:37:15 pm

2013-03-17 11:05:48 pm

All the things

Some fairly minor route changes and other things to take notice of:

-I now only let Riou power-level at the border, which brings him up to 48 from 12. This leaves Nanami at 12ish. But...
-I now plan to go to do Kindness Early before going to Coronet. This shaves a bit of time off, but you still end up +10 vs using the boat cutscene skip. I do this so that...
-I level up Nanami on random encounters going through the Forest and Greenhill area. ZombieSlugs are the best since you can one-shot them with Shining Light (only appear in x2 and x3 groups). Two groups of either is plenty, or can also gain some levels from encounters in Greenhill area, but not as much. Ideal is level 30ish, but still very possible to do with just one group of slugsx2 (level 22).
-I forgot that you can recruit Zamza in South Window. That eases up the character choices a bit more. Basically you can either choose to skip Alex & Hilda (kind of a longer talking sequence) and replace them with Emilia and Zamza. Probably still better to get A & H though.

Getting a bunch more levels on Nanami should increase the escape rate for all of the middle parts. The plan is still to pick up Stallion during the Matilda sequence, but with a properly trained Nanami I think everything up to that point should have a high chance to run away or simply be Let Go. May take a bit more testing to find the right balance, but it feels pretty good for now.

Also regarding the Boat Skip, I tested doing it at different points and it will not trigger until after you have beaten Tai Ho and the troupe joins up. So yeah, no skipping Chinchirorin.

EDIT: Tried to dig into the escape mechanics a bit. Turns out that Let Go appears when your party's level is above the enemy party's level. Pretty simple. There are even some memory addresses to match up with it, but they change depending on the area. The actual chances to run away are probably related to this ratio, but I don't have anything to back that up for now.

EDIT2: After some more testing, I think I"m going back to getting Stallion later, especially since my new levelling strats allow for Let Go into Banner Pass. The difference between the entire Matilda sequence with Stallion is about 1:30 slower if you go to pick up Stallion. There's an additional 20 sec you gain back from travelling back from Radat, but overall I don't think it's worth it. Not getting him could cut down on some extra recruiting as well, but I'm not sure how necessary Jeane will be in the Kiba battle yet. So at this point it's a tossup; without Stallion is definitely faster, but you lose out on a little bit of consistency. But I'm playing through under my "worst case" right now, and it feels like with the levels you'll have there isn't a need to have guaranteed escapes from Stallion.

Some fairly minor route changes and other things to take notice of:

-I now only let Riou power-level at the border, which brings him up to 48 from 12. This leaves Nanami at 12ish. But...
-I now plan to go to do Kindness Early before going to Coronet. This shaves a bit of time off, but you still end up +10 vs using the boat cutscene skip. I do this so that...
-I level up Nanami on random encounters going through the Forest and Greenhill area. ZombieSlugs are the best since you can one-shot them with Shining Light (only appear in x2 and x3 groups). Two groups of either is plenty, or can also gain some levels from encounters in Greenhill area, but not as much. Ideal is level 30ish, but still very possible to do with just one group of slugsx2 (level 22).
-I forgot that you can recruit Zamza in South Window. That eases up the character choices a bit more. Basically you can either choose to skip Alex & Hilda (kind of a longer talking sequence) and replace them with Emilia and Zamza. Probably still better to get A & H though.

Getting a bunch more levels on Nanami should increase the escape rate for all of the middle parts. The plan is still to pick up Stallion during the Matilda sequence, but with a properly trained Nanami I think everything up to that point should have a high chance to run away or simply be Let Go. May take a bit more testing to find the right balance, but it feels pretty good for now.

Also regarding the Boat Skip, I tested doing it at different points and it will not trigger until after you have beaten Tai Ho and the troupe joins up. So yeah, no skipping Chinchirorin.

EDIT: Tried to dig into the escape mechanics a bit. Turns out that Let Go appears when your party's level is above the enemy party's level. Pretty simple. There are even some memory addresses to match up with it, but they change depending on the area. The actual chances to run away are probably related to this ratio, but I don't have anything to back that up for now.

EDIT2: After some more testing, I think I"m going back to getting Stallion later, especially since my new levelling strats allow for Let Go into Banner Pass. The difference between the entire Matilda sequence with Stallion is about 1:30 slower if you go to pick up Stallion. There's an additional 20 sec you gain back from travelling back from Radat, but overall I don't think it's worth it. Not getting him could cut down on some extra recruiting as well, but I'm not sure how necessary Jeane will be in the Kiba battle yet. So at this point it's a tossup; without Stallion is definitely faster, but you lose out on a little bit of consistency. But I'm playing through under my "worst case" right now, and it feels like with the levels you'll have there isn't a need to have guaranteed escapes from Stallion.

Vaslof

Edit history:

Vaslof: 2013-03-19 03:07:27 pm

Vaslof: 2013-03-19 03:06:58 pm

2013-03-19 03:06:34 pm

Ever find out what caused the lock-up in the Luca battle? If it's double-counter, then Eilie should be used as kindness bearer because Luca can't counter ranged attacks. Also increases reliability because he deals less damage in a turn when he doesn't get to counter. Trying to trigger Violence more by getting him to counter is not a good idea if the current strat is as unreliable as it seems.

Looking at Eilie's kindness gains: (comparing to your full run times)
0:30 - She left at 0:22, plenty of time to get her out of the party before she gains a point.
1:30 - She won't be there.
2:30 - She left the party at 2:33. Your time can be improved, but I don't remember if you made any big mistakes. Japanese goal time is 2:27. Let's say "maybe".
3:30 - She won't be there.
4:30 - +1 point Banner Pass
5:30 - +1 point Tinto
6:30 - Obviously you've already beaten Beast Rune Smiley

Realistically no point.

So three deaths, maybe four. Nanami would need five or six (depending on Abomination, is she forced into party after it?), but she gets two freebies (Double Head, Highland fight).

Ever find out what caused the lock-up in the Luca battle? If it's double-counter, then Eilie should be used as kindness bearer because Luca can't counter ranged attacks. Also increases reliability because he deals less damage in a turn when he doesn't get to counter. Trying to trigger Violence more by getting him to counter is not a good idea if the current strat is as unreliable as it seems.

Looking at Eilie's kindness gains: (comparing to your full run times) 
0:30 - She left at 0:22, plenty of time to get her out of the party before she gains a point.
1:30 - She won't be there.
2:30 - She left the party at 2:33. Your time can be improved, but I don't remember if you made any big mistakes. Japanese goal time is 2:27. Let's say "maybe".
3:30 - She won't be there.
4:30 - +1 point Banner Pass
5:30 - +1 point Tinto
6:30 - Obviously you've already beaten Beast Rune :) Realistically no point.

So three deaths, maybe four. Nanami would need five or six (depending on Abomination, is she forced into party after it?), but she gets two freebies (Double Head, Highland fight).