Stream and Recording Equipment Help

2014-01-30 10:48:29 pm

Hello I'm thinking of getting an avermedia live gamer hd capture card for my pc and hd console streaming and maybe the avertv hd dvr c027 capture card for retro consoles. Is the c027 a good capture card for older consoles like the snes? Also I have a gaming monitor so what other equipment would I need inorder to play the snes on my hd monitor? I would like to be able to stream, record and play my retro consoles without any lag? New to streaming so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Thread title:

pogokeen

2014-01-31 03:15:29 am

A little while back I wrote a post which may be helpful ( https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/questions_about_best_capture_devices_for_all_consoles.html ). It includes some notes and resources on how to output analog console video to a computer monitor and things to look for in finding your preferred capture setup.

Quote:

* [...] Outputting analog video signals to a monitor will typically require some sort of processor to convert the signal to digital. Using a preview window from your capture card typically causes quite a bit of lag. If you have to display analog signals on a monitor, see:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ <- (great website for video processor reviews & guide)
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER <- (great all around processor & deinterlacer)

Depending on what you have available, it may be easier instead to output to a tv with an A/V splitter (or passthrough, if your capture card has one).

These threads may also be helpful in figuring out your preferred setup:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/capture_device_compendium_tell_me_about_your_capture_device.html
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/stupid_questions_about_capture_device.html
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/how_to_bypass_hdcp_for_use_with_blackmagic_intensity_ps3_owners_read_here.html

Sorry, I haven't used those particular cards you are asking about, so I can't be very helpful there. There is most likely information about those cards in the Capture Device Compendium (linked above). If not, someone else on the forum is sure to know.

If you haven't before, it may be helpful to test out streaming on your computer before picking up any capture devices (using screen/application capture).

Hope this stuff helps, and hope you find the answers you are looking for quickly and easily! Smiley

A little while back I wrote a post which may be helpful ( https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/questions_about_best_capture_devices_for_all_consoles.html ).  It includes some notes and resources on how to output analog console video to a computer monitor and things to look for in finding your preferred capture setup.

[quote]* [...] Outputting analog video signals to a monitor will typically require some sort of processor to convert the signal to digital.  Using a preview window from your capture card typically causes quite a bit of lag.  If you have to display analog signals on a monitor, see:
    http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ <- (great website for video processor reviews & guide)
    http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER <- (great all around processor & deinterlacer)[/quote]

Depending on what you have available,  it may be easier instead to output to a tv with an A/V splitter (or passthrough, if your capture card has one).

These threads may also be helpful in figuring out your preferred setup:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/capture_device_compendium_tell_me_about_your_capture_device.html
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/stupid_questions_about_capture_device.html
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/how_to_bypass_hdcp_for_use_with_blackmagic_intensity_ps3_owners_read_here.html

Sorry, I haven't used those particular cards you are asking about, so I can't be very helpful there.  There is most likely information about those cards in the Capture Device Compendium (linked above).  If not, someone else on the forum is sure to know.

If you haven't before, it may be helpful to test out streaming on your computer before picking up any capture devices (using screen/application capture).

Hope this stuff helps, and hope you find the answers you are looking for quickly and easily! :)

CloudStrafe

2014-02-03 10:56:52 pm

The stream quality during AGDQ '14 was pretty good and I read in one of the posts that they used the c027 so I'll give it a try. There was alot of information to try and sift through but I did have a look at the Framemeister and if it will make my gameplay look that good, it's definitely a buy for me sometime down the road. Right now I just want to get up and running first. Instead of trying to use my monitor for my older consoles, I'll use my tv, but I don't know which a/v splitter or power splitter to use, if anyone has any suggestions please let me know? Thanks

blizzz

2014-02-04 06:27:12 am

Quote from CloudStrafe:

I did have a look at the Framemeister and if it will make my gameplay look that good, it's definitely a buy for me sometime down the road

The Framemeister adds 2 frames of lag to the video. Unless you're using a very fast monitor (the ASUS VG248Q has 2ms input lag for example) then you will feel the lag. You will also need to use RGB cables to get the optimal quality.

oasiz

2014-02-05 11:23:27 am

Iha paska

2ms input lag when a frame is 16ms ?

Haven't multiple reviews concluded that the lag for framemeister is almost nonexistant, some even claim ~zero frames.

Rememer that monitor "ms" usually refers to a full color change, you it might take a lot less time just to see the ghosting of a new frame before it even appears, even at 100Hz we are talking about 10ms.

If you are talking about speeds that fast then you'd be pissed when using a CRT as the bottom of the screen would contain the old frame, even with a CRT the screen doesn't update "all at once".
Just saying..

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-02-05 11:50:32 am

2014-02-05 11:49:49 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I'm pretty sure that the Asus is 2ms but only at 144Hz. blizz has this monitor so he should know (trust everything he says).

There's lots of lag figures for the Mini rolling about here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46659

It's definitely not lag free by any means but again this depends what you are attaching to it.

blizzz

2014-02-05 01:10:20 pm

Quote from oasiz:

2ms input lag when a frame is 16ms ?

Quote:

If you are talking about speeds that fast then you'd be pissed when using a CRT as the bottom of the screen would contain the old frame, even with a CRT the screen doesn't update "all at once".
Just saying..

Input lag is the time it takes from sending the first line of a frame until you can see it on screen. That includes processing time and grey-to-grey time. ASUS advertises the grey-to-grey time as 1ms and some sites have measured the combined input lag as 2ms (prad.de, pcmonitors.info, hardwareluxx.de etc). That time is for the top of the screen. Just like a CRT it takes more time to transmit the whole signal, the bottom part of the frame appears later. So the 2ms says how much slower it is compared to a CRT (for each line).
Sadly there are different definitions of input lag and many inaccurate measurement methods.

Also, please don't just trust me. My information is based on review sites and measurements from the LeoBodnar Input Lag Tester from forums, which could be wrong.

Quote:

Haven't multiple reviews concluded that the lag for framemeister is almost nonexistant, some even claim ~zero frames.

As TheThrillness linked, the Mini actually has "a lot" more lag than it shows in its menu. That's the main reason I haven't bought one.

[quote="oasiz"]2ms input lag when a frame is 16ms ?[/quote]
[quote]If you are talking about speeds that fast then you'd be pissed when using a CRT as the bottom of the screen would contain the old frame, even with a CRT the screen doesn't update "all at once".
Just saying..[/quote]
Input lag is the time it takes from sending the first line of a frame until you can see it on screen. That includes processing time and grey-to-grey time. ASUS advertises the grey-to-grey time as 1ms and some sites have measured the combined input lag as 2ms (prad.de, pcmonitors.info, hardwareluxx.de etc). That time is for the top of the screen. Just like a CRT it takes more time to transmit the whole signal, the bottom part of the frame appears later. So the 2ms says how much slower it is compared to a CRT (for each line).
Sadly there are different definitions of input lag and many inaccurate measurement methods.

Also, please don't just trust me. My information is based on review sites and measurements from the LeoBodnar Input Lag Tester from forums, which could be wrong.

[quote]Haven't multiple reviews concluded that the lag for framemeister is almost nonexistant, some even claim ~zero frames.[/quote]
As TheThrillness linked, the Mini actually has "a lot" more lag than it shows in its menu. That's the main reason I haven't bought one.

CloudStrafe

2014-02-05 11:22:55 pm

I have a 1ms gaming monitor and would like to play on this monitor and capture the gameplay on another monitor with the avermedia live gamer hd. This setup will be used primarily for hd consoles and pc gaming. However I would also like to use this monitor for my old consoles as well if at all possible. The problem is, I don't know what setup i need or splitters, etc. to accomplish this if at all possible. I seen in many posts that runners use powered splitters and such to reduce as much lag as possible which is why I would like to use two different displays, one for playing and one for capturing the gameplay to minimize lag. I seen many streamers on twitch use two displays as well, but have no idea what setup they are using especially with the old consoles. What equipment do I need so I can do this and would I need to do the same thing with my hd setup?

blizzz

2014-02-06 07:05:31 am

That 1ms is most likely just a grey-to-grey time, that doesn't say much about the actual input lag. At least I'm not aware of a (non-CRT) monitor that has a 1ms input lag. A minimal lag setup would be possible with the XRGB-3 and a fast monitor with VGA input. There's also a cheap linedoubler in the works that focuses on minimizing lag for 240p sources. Your Live Gamer HD should(*) be able to capture the VGA signal from the XRGB/linedoubler. You would just need a powered VGA splitter and RGB cables for the consoles.

A much cheaper and easier setup would be to get a CRT TV and a capture card / device that can capture S-Video (or RGB). If you can live with 2-3 frames delay you could also just use the capture preview window.

Streamers use two monitors to have the game on one side and the chat, xsplit/obs and stream preview on the other side.

(*) old consoles output at non standard refresh rates which can cause problems.

CloudStrafe

Edit history:

CloudStrafe: 2014-02-06 05:41:26 pm

CloudStrafe: 2014-02-06 05:38:25 pm

2014-02-06 05:28:37 pm

The live gamer hd cap card is for pc gaming and hd consoles. I'm going to be using dual monitors exactly for that, so I can play on one and preview the gameplay, chat, etc on the other. For the sd consoles, I'm getting the avertv c027 for my snes game capture and this is where I'm unsure what to use for this setup. i just want to be able to capture and stream my snes gameplay on twitch and upload them on youtube. I do have a led tv monitor 120hz with s-video, vga, dvi, hdmi. What would the recommmended setup be for this tv with my c027 cap card and snes and have my pc monitor preview the gameplay? By the way thank you to those that have responded to this post.

blizzz

2014-02-06 07:10:14 pm

I would just test how the lag feels on a) your capture card preview window and b) your TV. Both will have input lag, but there's a good chance that the capture card has about the same (or even less) lag than your TV. If your TV has less lag then get a powered S-Video splitter.

CloudStrafe

2014-02-06 08:56:08 pm

Yeah, for both setups I want to split the signal having one cable going to the gameplay display and the other going to the capture card with the preview going to the pc monitor. I don't want to play using the preview window, any recommened hdmi splitters and s-video splitters? Btw any pictures or links showing how to setup two monitors and splitters would be helpful as well. Never done this before, just trying to emulate what I seen on other streams, new to this whole streaming and game capture thing.

CloudStrafe

2014-05-06 10:30:51 pm

Hello I created this post three months ago seeking help/guidance on purchasing the proper stream equipment to start streaming and recording my runs. Now with summer approaching fast, I'll definitely have time to start streaming and running games. Would someone please recommend a good capture card/device for s-video/composite for my snes, ps1 and ps2 consoles. Also would you please link me a post or site with streaming/recording recommendations or tell me what settings I should use for streaming and recording for both hdmi consoles, pc and my older consoles. My pc specs: i7 4770 CPU @3.40GHz, RAM 16GB, Nvidia Geforce GTX 645 4GB Gaming graphics
Internet: 10 down 2 up

Edenal

2014-05-07 12:45:56 am

Hockey enthusiast

For composite only: Dazzle

For HD-gaming (including PC): PEXHDCAP

For consoles in SD and HD (excluding PC): AVerMedia HD DVR C027 (H727)

Read this blog: http://www.thethrillness.com/

CloudStrafe

2014-05-07 09:49:00 am

Thanks for the link and recommendations Edenal. I'm caught between the C027 and the Diamond VC500 as they both look good after seeing the reviews in a post. Has anyone tried the Elgato Video Capture Device, it's about $10 cheaper than the c027 on amazon. I even thought about the elgato game capture hd as it can handle hd and older consoles but couldn't find any reviews about it concerning older consoles such as the snes. If you use any of these devices please please let me know what you think about them. I would like to start setting up my game station soon. Thanks.

Cauptain

2014-05-07 10:03:01 am

AVerMedia HD DVR C027 (Have 2) is very useful for any console to date.

No need HDMI splitter to record PS3, have digital and analog inputs, excellent compatibility with 3rd softwares (VH Capture, Virtualdub, AmarecTV) and get better HD image quality (Its a lossless capture card) over Blacmagic, Elgato and Hauppage.

Claudio

blizzz

2014-05-07 10:40:17 am

Keep in mind that TheThrillness discovered that the newer revisions of the C027/H727 are worse than the older cards that most people have. Here is his post in Capture Device Compendium

The Elgato HD is my favorite device for HD content, but I wouldn't recommend it for older consoles or streaming (because of the delay).

Cauptain

2014-05-07 12:16:11 pm

Its easy to correct using Avisynth scripts. No problem really.

All HD H264 encoders cards are so so in quality. The only card really good is Avermedia C985 using latest drivers, its full compatible directshow with Virtualdub, give equal quality like C027.

I have 4 diferents Avermedia cards (C027, C985, C285 and C868, in future get a c281 too) no problem using Virtualdub or AmarecTv, minus C285 a external card. All analog/digital inputs is only C027, my prefer card.

Claudio

CloudStrife

2014-05-10 11:19:04 am

I do have an avermedia live gamer hd capture card so I don't really need another hd capture device, but I'm still thinking the c027 is the card to get although I'm unfamiliar with the technical aspect of the issues concerning the latest model mentioned in the capture device compendium. The main purpose of this card if I were to purchase it would be to record and stream my old consoles(snes, ps1,ps2). Is this going to be a problem or should I buy a different capture device? Btw, I plan to use a splitter so that I can play on another screen and capture on the other, would this cause any lag with this device? If you've any recommendations on a good splitter, that would be great as well.

CloudStrafe

2014-05-10 11:21:44 am

Handle typo in above post. too much final fantasy everywhere.

I do have an avermedia live gamer hd capture card so I don't really need another hd capture device, but I'm still thinking the c027 is the card to get although I'm unfamiliar with the technical aspect of the issues concerning the latest model mentioned in the capture device compendium. The main purpose of this card if I were to purchase it would be to record and stream my old consoles(snes, ps1,ps2). Is this going to be a problem or should I buy a different capture device? Btw, I plan to use a splitter so that I can play on another screen and capture on the other, would this cause any lag with this device? If you've any recommendations on a good splitter, that would be great as well.

gyre

2014-05-11 10:41:42 pm

The C027 can't handle 240p over component cables. That means you'll need to use svideo output if you play PS1 games on your PS2. Many native PS2 games are 480p so don't have that problem. SNES is 240p but unless you've modded it svideo is the best you'll get anyways. The CE Labs 400SV is a great splitter for svideo: http://www.amazon.com/Electronics-AV-400SV-Distribution-Amplifier/dp/B0009QZPO6.

Sir VG

2014-05-11 10:55:48 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Most HD capture devices seem to start at 480i and can't handle 240p. I've got 3 different devices by AverMedia (C027, Live Gamer Portable, Game Capture HD) and none of them can handle it. I'm not aware of any devices offhand (by any brand) that do 240p. I record using a dvd recorder using s-video.

I second gyre's recommendation for CE Labs splitters. They're great and I have no issues with lag.