StarCraft cheated speedruns

2016-06-15 04:37:14 am

I've just watched the whole StarCraft [http://speeddemosarchive.com/Starcraft.html]

Except for the "Zerg 05", all of the Zerg mission are done with cheating. Because how can you not call cheating the creation of an invincible Drone? There is a bug in the game that this Freezard cheater uses not only to create an invincible scouting units, but also takes it all the way: those immortal Drones are used to draw away fire from other [normal] units and [s]he uses them also for attacking, without taking any damage

Also I have a doubt about "Zerg 02", which exploits some other bug

Thread title:

Caracarn

2016-06-15 06:52:34 am

it's not cheating, he is using older versions of the game that have these kinds of glitches (invincible drone, build anywhere, CC slide, etc.)

Asteron

2016-06-15 09:59:09 am

https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules

Quote:

Many speedruns utilize glitches (unexpected behavior due to the game's programming), to the runner's advantage. Glitches are allowed and runs submitted to SDA are expected to fully utilize beneficial glitches and bugs in their runs to save time within the confines of the game's behavior. In extreme cases, glitches allow you to skip huge chunks of the game and that can warrant a separate category.

Runs without glitches or without major glitches tend to be a different category.

ShadowWraith

2016-06-15 10:57:51 am

.

Glitches are allowed in speedruns. This is not cheating.

Forez

Edit history:

Forez: 2016-07-05 02:29:00 pm

2016-07-05 02:25:00 pm

Quote from Asteron:

https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules

Quote:

Many speedruns utilize glitches (unexpected behavior due to the game's programming), to the runner's advantage. Glitches are allowed and runs submitted to SDA are expected to fully utilize beneficial glitches and bugs in their runs to save time within the confines of the game's behavior. In extreme cases, glitches allow you to skip huge chunks of the game and that can warrant a separate category.

Runs without glitches or without major glitches tend to be a different category.

I'm gonna be completely honest: this is such a bullshit rule!

Can you imagine watching speed-played whole original DOOM, when some glitch evoked at the very beginning a pressing of I, D, D, Q and D keys? According to that rule, that would be perfectly normal. But in reality, such videos whatsoever, would be of no value

I've played StarCraft and Brood Wars when they came out. Now I've finished them once again, with a lot of quality fun to much of my surprise, before going to the sequel. As often, I went also for the icing on the cake: the speedruns. And let me tell you: watching Terran and Protoss missions [with still some minor glitches to my dislike] was very entertaining and even informative in term of tactics, managing and economy issues. But almost all of the Zerg missions were a boring piece of alien turd. And when I saw in one mission a usage of bug, that made a ground unit [Drone] fly right to the destination in a straight line [and thus quickly finishing the mission], I just laughed and stopped watching for a while. And as I predicted, later on it was just just a complete waste o my time and an offense to my intellect. Replacing [basic units of] Drones with [quite advanced units of] Mutalisks, without even spending resources and also in almost no time? And then wiping out with them enemy forces and thus "winning" a level? Really? It's not cheating but just glitching?

Please stop putting that "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" sign at the start of such videos, because you are turning the whole speedrun movement into a laughing stock of competitive gaming

[quote="Asteron"]https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules

[quote]Many speedruns utilize glitches (unexpected behavior due to the game's programming), to the runner's advantage. Glitches are allowed and runs submitted to SDA are expected to fully utilize beneficial glitches and bugs in their runs to save time within the confines of the game's behavior. In extreme cases, glitches allow you to skip huge chunks of the game and that can warrant a separate category. [/quote]

Runs without glitches or without major glitches tend to be a different category.
[/quote]
I'm gonna be completely honest: [b]this is such a bullshit rule![/b]

Can you imagine watching speed-played whole original DOOM, when some glitch evoked at the very beginning a pressing of I, D, D, Q and D keys? According to that rule, that would be perfectly normal. But in reality, such videos whatsoever, would be of no value

I've played StarCraft and Brood Wars when they came out. Now I've finished them once again, with a lot of quality fun to much of my surprise, before going to the sequel. As often, I went also for the icing on the cake: the speedruns. And let me tell you: watching Terran and Protoss missions [with still some minor glitches to my dislike] was very entertaining and even informative in term of tactics, managing and economy issues. But almost all of the Zerg missions were a boring piece of alien turd. And when I saw in one mission a usage of bug, that made a ground unit [Drone] fly right to the destination in a straight line [and thus quickly finishing the mission], I just laughed and stopped watching for a while. And as I predicted, later on it was just just a complete waste o my time and an offense to my intellect. Replacing [basic units of] Drones with [quite advanced units of] Mutalisks, without even spending resources and also in almost no time? And then wiping out with them enemy forces and thus "winning" a level? Really? It's not cheating but just glitching?

Please stop putting that "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" sign at the start of such videos, because you are turning the whole speedrun movement into a laughing stock of competitive gaming

ymh

2016-07-05 02:54:11 pm

Entertainment is not a requirement nor a sign of quality for a speedrun. If you want that, you're probably better off watching Let's Plays.
Also as Asteron pointed out, there are different categories for glitchless and major glitches (major skips).

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-07-05 05:38:31 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-07-05 05:38:03 pm

Zergreenone: 2016-07-05 05:37:23 pm

2016-07-05 05:35:12 pm

Glitchless runs still exist. Cheats are different to glitches because they are intentionally programmed to be unused, and they are deliberately defined by the programmer and illegal parts of the game (by the game's rules). Glitches are a part of the game as defined by the developer. The big problem is, if you start disallowing glitches, there start to be a lot of edge cases where you are saying "Is this really a glitch? Or was it intended? It is pretty much impossible to avoid this glitch, so can I use it now? If I can use this glitch, why can't I use that glitch?", and so on.

If you think that glitchless runs are better in any way, you are free to create one. The glitches in Starcraft are probably major enough that a glitchless run would be accepted, assuming it is of high quality. Or if, as it seems to be, you want someone else to do a glitchless run, then know that no-one else is bound to do what you want.

Freezard

2016-07-07 09:01:35 am

Thank you for watching my runs even though you hate the glitches, seems something in the videos was exciting enough to make you continue watching.

Mejcel

2016-07-09 05:57:25 am

Quote from Forez:

And as I predicted, later on it was just just a complete waste o my time and an offense to my intellect.

wo-hoo...

...speedrunning is just for fun, feel free to run or watch a category of your liking. Individual levels in this case are done the fastest way as it should be.

mrprmiller

Edit history:

mrprmiller: 2016-07-09 04:55:45 pm

mrprmiller: 2016-07-09 04:55:22 pm

2016-07-09 04:48:57 pm

Everyday is puppies and sunshine...

Quote:

Please stop putting that "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" sign at the start of such videos, because you are turning the whole speedrun movement into a laughing stock of competitive gaming

I'm pretty sure that's not what is happening, and that your opinion on an established norm of SDA that has been around for nearly 20 years now is not representative of the "competitive gaming" community, all of whom to my knowledge use glitches in their Any% runs that aren't intended as glitchless.

Hepe

2016-07-11 04:02:27 am

Rye bread, beer and snus

You clearly have no idea what abusing glitches in games actually are or how it works. These runs are NOT cheated runs, no amtter how hard you try argue to the contrary. Besides, SDA has been a major authority on speedrunnning for over a decade, so your accusations run pretty hollow, seeing as you clearly have no idea what you are even talking about. I guess to you the infinite health door trick in Half-Life is considered cheating too1, even though it is only abusing a design oversight in the game itself.

Forez

2016-07-25 11:56:35 am

Quote from Freezard:

Thank you for watching my runs even though you hate the glitches, seems something in the videos was exciting enough to make you continue watching.

If in the last Zerg missions I saw you using those major glitches, I stopped watching. Because it was of little value and zero fun

Forez

2016-07-25 12:20:28 pm

Quote from Mejcel:

Quote from Forez:

And as I predicted, later on it was just just a complete waste o my time and an offense to my intellect.

wo-hoo...

...speedrunning is just for fun, feel free to run or watch a category of your liking. Individual levels in this case are done the fastest way as it should be.

That's the problem

What can you get from a speedrun?
a] Info on how to beat the game quicker; how to be more effective
b] Fun

So if you someone in a game like Starcraft uses a glitch that is an equivalent of DOOM'S cheat code IDKFA and IDSPISPOPD, and thus making an invincible unit going straight from starting point to the level finish place, then what knowledge or fun does this give to the viewer?

I guess for some people playing for example Master Of Orion on easy difficulty and reaveling the map is fun. But for me fun starts when I play it on impossible without usage of saves. And that is also the time that I can learn the most out from it

Forez

2016-07-25 12:22:16 pm

Quote from Hepe:

You clearly have no idea what abusing glitches in games actually are or how it works. These runs are NOT cheated runs, no amtter how hard you try argue to the contrary.

Yes, an invincible flying Drone unit in StarCraft is something A-OK

Quote from Hepe:

Besides, SDA has been a major authority on speedrunnning for over a decade, so your accusations run pretty hollow, seeing as you clearly have no idea what you are even talking about.

Yes, I have to have a PhD to be able to constructively criticize or even to be able to point out this kind of cognitive dissonance in the speedplay and the statement preceding it

Quote from Hepe:

I guess to you the infinite health door trick in Half-Life is considered cheating too1, even though it is only abusing a design oversight in the game itself.

I do not know at all what's that about so I will no comment, because I do not speak on subjects that I have no knowledge of

ymh

2016-07-25 12:41:50 pm

*grabspopcorn*

Forez

2016-07-25 12:53:47 pm

Quote from Zergreenone:

Glitchless runs still exist. Cheats are different to glitches because they are intentionally programmed to be unused, and they are deliberately defined by the programmer and illegal parts of the game (by the game's rules). Glitches are a part of the game as defined by the developer. The big problem is, if you start disallowing glitches, there start to be a lot of edge cases where you are saying "Is this really a glitch? Or was it intended? It is pretty much impossible to avoid this glitch, so can I use it now? If I can use this glitch, why can't I use that glitch?", and so on.

You can always use logic / common sense? And then establish a list of minor glitches for a given title, which usage of won't prevent from earning the "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label

For example in Portal not every surface can be shoot at successfully, leaving a hole in it; which is a major rule used to created levels. So if the player steps on a button that opens the door, revealing a surface behind it without the possibility of establishing a connection with it, but is able to shoot just under the [now opened] door and thus skipping few moves [of dragging something onto that button so that the doors could stay opened without the player standing there], then this should be allowed. Because it can be argued, that whomever built that facility, did not predict such a behavior from the test subjects. Especially if you take into consideration the fact, that player [test subject] can escape the poorly designed trap that is supposed to end the series of trials within that facility. There is no way of telling if that is a glitch or something intended, but that behavior does not violate the reality in which the game is set

And coming back to StarCraft, it can be argued than using a [small] glitch allowing for a movement of a just landed Terran Command Center is an override of it's functions. And in this case it is clearly a glitch, because it allows for placing of the TCC much nearer of to the crystals than intended [and what is indicated to the player by the inability to land in such a position after a liftoff]. But such override is not something that couldn't have happened. Because can you [in real life] not just even taxi a plane through multiple fields but just drive it on roads and not just fly with it over them [as it is intended for that machine]? Yes you can

Quote from Zergreenone:

If you think that glitchless runs are better in any way, you are free to create one. The glitches in Starcraft are probably major enough that a glitchless run would be accepted, assuming it is of high quality. Or if, as it seems to be, you want someone else to do a glitchless run, then know that no-one else is bound to do what you want.

Of course no one is going to do that

And why you ask?

Because there is no point in making a proper speeedrun, if there is no way of being quicker than a flying invincible Drone

[quote="Zergreenone"]Glitchless runs still exist. Cheats are different to glitches because they are intentionally programmed to be unused, and they are deliberately defined by the programmer and illegal parts of the game (by the game's rules). Glitches are a part of the game as defined by the developer. The big problem is, if you start disallowing glitches, there start to be a lot of edge cases where you are saying "Is this really a glitch? Or was it intended? It is pretty much impossible to avoid this glitch, so can I use it now? If I can use this glitch, why can't I use that glitch?", and so on.[/quote]
You can always use logic / common sense? And then establish a list of minor glitches for a given title, which usage of won't prevent from earning the "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label

For example in Portal not every surface can be shoot at successfully, leaving a hole in it; which is a major rule used to created levels. So if the player steps on a button that opens the door, revealing a surface behind it without the possibility of establishing a connection with it, but is able to shoot just under the [now opened] door and thus skipping few moves [of dragging something onto that button so that the doors could stay opened without the player standing there],  then this should be allowed. Because it can be argued, that whomever built that facility, did not predict such a behavior from the test subjects. Especially if you take into consideration the fact, that player [test subject] can escape the poorly designed trap that is supposed to end the series of trials within that facility. There is no way of telling if that is a glitch or something intended, but that behavior does not violate the reality in which the game is set

And coming back to StarCraft, it can be argued than using a [small] glitch allowing for a movement of a just landed Terran Command Center is an override of it's functions. And in this case it is clearly a glitch, because it allows for placing of the TCC much nearer of to the crystals than intended [and what is indicated to the player by the inability to land in such a position after a liftoff]. But such override is not something that couldn't have happened. Because can you [in real life] not just even taxi a plane through multiple fields but just drive it on roads and not just fly with it over them [as it is intended for that machine]? Yes you can

[quote="Zergreenone"]If you think that glitchless runs are better in any way, you are free to create one. The glitches in Starcraft are probably major enough that a glitchless run would be accepted, assuming it is of high quality. Or if, as it seems to be, you want someone else to do a glitchless run, then know that no-one else is bound to do what you want.[/quote]
Of course no one is going to do that

And why you ask?

Because there is no point in making a proper speeedrun, if there is no way of being quicker than a flying invincible Drone

Judgy

2016-07-25 01:08:59 pm

Borderlands 2 Glitch Hunter/ router.

Quote from Forez:

Because there is no point in making a proper speeedrun, if there is no way of being quicker than a flying invincible Drone

Depends, it doesn't HAVE to be quicker if it is a different catagory, for example Borderlands 2 glitched is just over 2 hours (2:09), glitchless is well over 3 hours. Both are an achievement and allowing both glitched runs and glitchless caters for both kinds of people (those who like to watch glitches and those who prefer runs based off purely skill, however that is circumstantial anyway because some glitches and skips require far more skill than playing the game normally)

"of course no one is going to do that" what about the person who really wants to make that very thing happen and is willing to put their time into doing it? because this community does have those kinds of people who are willing to try things to make others happy, It's kind of sad that some people are not as willing to accept a run for what it is whether it be glitched or glitchless.

P.S I do both glitched and glitchless runs, This is not me being one sided.

[quote="Forez"]Because there is no point in making a proper speeedrun, if there is no way of being quicker than a flying invincible Drone[/quote]

Depends, it doesn't HAVE to be quicker if it is a different catagory, for example Borderlands 2 glitched is just over 2 hours (2:09), glitchless is well over 3 hours. Both are an achievement and allowing both glitched runs and glitchless caters for both kinds of people (those who like to watch glitches and those who prefer runs based off purely skill, however that is circumstantial anyway because some glitches and skips require far more skill than playing the game normally)

"of course no one is going to do that" what about the person who really wants to make that very thing happen and is willing to put their time into doing it? because this community does have those kinds of people who are willing to try things to make others happy, It's kind of sad that some people are not as willing to accept a run for what it is whether it be glitched or glitchless.

P.S I do both glitched and glitchless runs,  This is not me being one sided.

ShadowDraft

2016-07-25 01:31:25 pm

Get over here!

I vote this to be the best troll topic on SDA in 2016.

Quote from ymh:

*grabspopcorn*

Can I have some too?

ymh

Edit history:

ymh: 2016-07-25 02:39:48 pm

2016-07-25 02:39:18 pm

Quote from Forez:

Quote from Zergreenone:

If you think that glitchless runs are better in any way, you are free to create one. The glitches in Starcraft are probably major enough that a glitchless run would be accepted, assuming it is of high quality. Or if, as it seems to be, you want someone else to do a glitchless run, then know that no-one else is bound to do what you want.

Of course no one is going to do that

And why you ask?

Because there is no point in making a proper speeedrun, if there is no way of being quicker than a flying invincible Drone

Actually there is a point. As people pointed out, there is a glitch-less category, and if you look at other games there are glitch-less runs created all the time, even tho there already are glitched runs which are faster.

edit: Sorry *handsshadowthepopcorn*

Forez

2016-07-25 04:01:00 pm

Quote from ShadowDraft:

I vote this to be the best troll topic on SDA in 2016.

Quote from ymh:

*grabspopcorn*

Can I have some too?

Just be careful not to not choke on that popcorn

Mystery

2016-07-25 04:04:53 pm

So forez... your arguments basically boils down to:

1) Speedruns are a source for watching how to beat a game quickly, and they must therefore not use certain glithes/cheats because it makes them boring to watch.
2) The glitches used are actually cheats.
3) Because SDA runs uses "cheats," it can't use the label "Verified no cheating."
4) No one is going to make a glitchless run because it's slower.

1) Has it occurred to you that it is the author who has the right to decide what to put into a video or not? An author has every right to make a video with cheats that beats the game fast and call it a speedrun. Whether you like it or not is beside the point.

2 & 3) What is a cheat and what is a glitch can sometimes be pretty difficult to tell and if often vague. However, SDA and specific communities have agreed upon a certain set of rules that say what is allowed and what is not. "Verified no cheating" simply means the author adhered to those rules. I get it, this glitch in starcraft you speak may look like a cheat. It may look boring. I'm inclined to agree. But that still doesn't man the author cheated from the perspective of SDA. If you don't like those rules, fine, you don't have to agree. But that does not mean SDA have to stop using "verified no cheating" just because YOU think it's cheating. SDA has verified the speedrun and come to the conclusion that in the eyes of SDA, the author has not used cheats.

4) People do slower categories all the time because different categories plays differently. Your drone glitches is a great example. Not everyone might like it, so not everyone might clear the game that way. Some categories may ban that glitch, forcing runners to clear the game as fast as possible without that glitch. And if more people feel the same, more people are going to run that category, even if it's slower than abusing the drone glitch/cheat.

Anyway, signing out.
Don't really like popcorn that much, so I'll just watch from the sides without eating any.

So forez... your arguments basically boils down to:

1) Speedruns are a source for watching how to beat a game quickly, and they must therefore not use certain glithes/cheats because it makes them boring to watch.
2) The glitches used are actually cheats.
3) Because SDA runs uses "cheats," it can't use the label "Verified no cheating."
4) No one is going to make a glitchless run because it's slower.

1) Has it occurred to you that it is the author who has the right to decide what to put into a video or not? An author has every right to make a video with cheats that beats the game fast and call it a speedrun. Whether you like it or not is beside the point.

2 & 3) What is a cheat and what is a glitch can sometimes be pretty difficult to tell and if often vague. However, SDA and specific communities have agreed upon a certain set of rules that say what is allowed and what is not. "Verified no cheating" simply means the author adhered to those rules. I get it, this glitch in starcraft you speak may look like a cheat. It may look boring. I'm inclined to agree. But that still doesn't man the author cheated from the perspective of SDA. If you don't like those rules, fine, you don't have to agree. But that does not mean SDA have to stop using "verified no cheating" just because YOU think it's cheating. SDA has verified the speedrun and come to the conclusion that in the eyes of SDA, the author has not used cheats.

4) People do slower categories all the time because different categories plays differently. Your drone glitches is a great example. Not everyone might like it, so not everyone might clear the game that way. Some categories may ban that glitch, forcing runners to clear the game as fast as possible without that glitch. And if more people feel the same, more people are going to run that category, [i]even if it's slower than abusing the drone glitch/cheat[/i].

Anyway, signing out.
Don't really like popcorn that much, so I'll just watch from the sides without eating any.

Freezard

Edit history:

Freezard: 2016-07-25 06:44:17 pm

Freezard: 2016-07-25 06:44:11 pm

Freezard: 2016-07-25 06:44:01 pm

Freezard: 2016-07-25 06:43:42 pm

2016-07-25 06:43:11 pm

Well in one way he brings up a good point, because when I started running SC none of the SDA runs used glitches, and I didn't want to use any either. But SDA told me that I should use glitches if it's faster because the runs would be in the same category, and so they did obsolete the other runs. However, some of my Serious Sam IL runs have been separated in a large-skip glitches category, but none of the SC ones, so it's kind of inconsistent. I guess it comes down to each game whether a glitch is major enough to warrant a separate category, and for ILs where you use all kind of different glitches in each level it becomes a chore to judge. Sure, most of the SC glitches are probably not major enough, and most of them like the invincible Drone don't actually skip anything, they just speed up things. But for example Z02 with the teleporting Drone to the exit in a few seconds, that's skipping the whole level right there, and similar in some missions with the floating Drone.

Forez

2016-07-26 01:51:04 am

Quote from Mystery:

[...]
1) Has it occurred to you that it is the author who has the right to decide what to put into a video or not? An author has every right to make a video with cheats that beats the game fast and call it a speedrun. Whether you like it or not is beside the point.

2 & 3) What is a cheat and what is a glitch can sometimes be pretty difficult to tell and if often vague. However, SDA and specific communities have agreed upon a certain set of rules that say what is allowed and what is not. "Verified no cheating" simply means the author adhered to those rules[...]

Well I admit: "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label evoking the https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules is misleading only when you do not read those rules

So me calling Freezard a cheater was uncalled for, for which I'm sorry

Quote from Freezard:

[...] SDA told me that I should use glitches if it's faster because the runs would be in the same category, and so they did obsolete the other runs [...]

But why isn't there also the "NO MAJOR GLITCHES" and / or "ZERO GLITCHES" label added to some of the SDA videos. [I suppose that this "WITH WARPS" category mentioned in Rules doesn't account for that]

How did this community came up with all of those rules, came up with the "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label system, but at the same time diminished / skipped the establishing of "NO GLITCHES" label? Was that [and still is] really so irrelevant?

[quote="Mystery"]
[...]
1) Has it occurred to you that it is the author who has the right to decide what to put into a video or not? An author has every right to make a video with cheats that beats the game fast and call it a speedrun. Whether you like it or not is beside the point.

2 & 3) What is a cheat and what is a glitch can sometimes be pretty difficult to tell and if often vague. However, SDA and specific communities have agreed upon a certain set of rules that say what is allowed and what is not. "Verified no cheating" simply means the author adhered to those rules[...]

[/quote]Well I admit: "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label evoking the https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules is misleading only when you do not read those rules

So me calling Freezard a cheater was uncalled for, for which I'm sorry

[quote="Freezard"][...] SDA told me that I should use glitches if it's faster because the runs would be in the same category, and so they did obsolete the other runs [...][/quote]
But why isn't there also the "NO MAJOR GLITCHES" and / or "ZERO GLITCHES" label added to some of the SDA videos. [I suppose that this "WITH WARPS" category mentioned in Rules doesn't account for that]

How did this community came up with all of those rules, came up with the "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label system, but at the same time diminished / skipped the establishing of "NO GLITCHES" label? Was that [and still is] really so irrelevant?

ShadowDraft

2016-07-26 03:37:50 am

Get over here!

Quote from ymh:

edit: Sorry *handsshadowthepopcorn*

Thanks but looks like I won't need it.

Quote from Forez:

Quote from Mystery:

[...]
1) Has it occurred to you that it is the author who has the right to decide what to put into a video or not? An author has every right to make a video with cheats that beats the game fast and call it a speedrun. Whether you like it or not is beside the point.

2 & 3) What is a cheat and what is a glitch can sometimes be pretty difficult to tell and if often vague. However, SDA and specific communities have agreed upon a certain set of rules that say what is allowed and what is not. "Verified no cheating" simply means the author adhered to those rules[...]

Well I admit: "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label evoking the https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules is misleading only when you do not read those rules

So me calling Freezard a cheater was uncalled for, for which I'm sorry

Quote from Freezard:

[...] SDA told me that I should use glitches if it's faster because the runs would be in the same category, and so they did obsolete the other runs [...]

But why isn't there also the "NO MAJOR GLITCHES" and / or "ZERO GLITCHES" label added to some of the SDA videos. [I suppose that this "WITH WARPS" category mentioned in Rules doesn't account for that]

How did this community came up with all of those rules, came up with the "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label system, but at the same time diminished / skipped the establishing of "NO GLITCHES" label? Was that [and still is] really so irrelevant?

Glitchless would be a category which is normally included in the video title at the start. The "Verified: No Cheating" as you've discovered has a very broad meaning and depending on the game/series changes drastically. In general though the use of in-game cheat inputs is not allowed. Same for third party programs like cheat engine, etc. But once glitches move into a picture it gets complicated especially if you're not involved in the community.

We get these knee jerk reactions all the time as speedrunners in youtube comments, reddit or on here. People claim that the runs are not valid because certain glitches were used which might've been patched out (that actually makes it worse for those people complaining) but we just aim for the fastest way to complete a game in the end so almost everything goes.

In the case of StarCraft and glitchless vs glitched runs it's also possible that the difference wasn't big enough for SDA to make a separate category. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to make a glitchless run appear on SDA. Just as Freezard mentions it does depend on the game too.

Fair warning though as I've had to deal with the "no major glitches/zero glitches" label on Amnesia too it's very tricky to decide what is usable and what's not. Some things like going out of bounds is very clear cut but then you get around to movement boost you can get from the level environment which you sometimes can't avoid in a run.

Hope that helps shed a bit of light on this problematic topic.

[quote="ymh"]edit: Sorry *handsshadowthepopcorn*[/quote]

Thanks but looks like I won't need it.

[quote="Forez"]
[quote="Mystery"]
[...]
1) Has it occurred to you that it is the author who has the right to decide what to put into a video or not? An author has every right to make a video with cheats that beats the game fast and call it a speedrun. Whether you like it or not is beside the point.

2 & 3) What is a cheat and what is a glitch can sometimes be pretty difficult to tell and if often vague. However, SDA and specific communities have agreed upon a certain set of rules that say what is allowed and what is not. "Verified no cheating" simply means the author adhered to those rules[...]

[/quote]Well I admit: "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label evoking the https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Rules is misleading only when you do not read those rules

So me calling Freezard a cheater was uncalled for, for which I'm sorry

[quote="Freezard"][...] SDA told me that I should use glitches if it's faster because the runs would be in the same category, and so they did obsolete the other runs [...][/quote]
But why isn't there also the "NO MAJOR GLITCHES" and / or "ZERO GLITCHES" label added to some of the SDA videos. [I suppose that this "WITH WARPS" category mentioned in Rules doesn't account for that]

How did this community came up with all of those rules, came up with the "VERIFIED: NO CHEATING" label system, but at the same time diminished / skipped the establishing of "NO GLITCHES" label? Was that [and still is] really so irrelevant?[/quote]

Glitchless would be a category which is normally included in the video title at the start. The "Verified: No Cheating" as you've discovered has a very broad meaning and depending on the game/series changes drastically. In general though the use of in-game cheat inputs is not allowed. Same for third party programs like cheat engine, etc. But once glitches move into a picture it gets complicated especially if you're not involved in the community.

We get these knee jerk reactions all the time as speedrunners in youtube comments, reddit or on here. People claim that the runs are not valid because certain glitches were used which might've been patched out (that actually makes it worse for those people complaining) but we just aim for the fastest way to complete a game in the end so almost everything goes.

In the case of StarCraft and glitchless vs glitched runs it's also possible that the difference wasn't big enough for SDA to make a separate category. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to make a glitchless run appear on SDA. Just as Freezard mentions it does depend on the game too.

Fair warning though as I've had to deal with the "no major glitches/zero glitches" label on Amnesia too it's very tricky to decide what is usable and what's not. Some things like going out of bounds is very clear cut but then you get around to movement boost you can get from the level environment which you sometimes can't avoid in a run.

Hope that helps shed a bit of light on this problematic topic.

Zergreenone

Edit history:

Zergreenone: 2016-07-26 03:50:08 am

Zergreenone: 2016-07-26 03:48:18 am

Zergreenone: 2016-07-26 03:48:08 am

Zergreenone: 2016-07-26 03:46:16 am

Zergreenone: 2016-07-26 03:46:15 am

2016-07-26 03:42:08 am

I do think glitchless runs should be a category. And I am not sure that speeddemosarchive is very friendly in general towards glitchless runs. But let's just wait until someone creates a glitchless run first. And the glitches in Starcraft are totally big enough to warrant another category. In particular the invincible drone, teleporting drone / floating scv and to a lesser extent cc slide glitches. Oh, and I almost forgot the zergling to muta glitch.

Also, cases in point about the line between glitched and not - Extractor trick? Mineral walk?