StarCraft 2 (WoL/HotS/LotV)

2013-05-01 05:39:10 pm

Turns out I need to write out the strict timings for Rendezvous. The spawn timings of attack groups around 13-14 in game minutes will delay the reinforcements meaning that backup plans need to
be madeup just in case the map does not go perfectly.

Overall goal times atm for Umoji missions are

7:00 Lab Rat
12:00 Back In The Saddle
13:30 Rendezvous
= 32:30 in game time

I've been trying an alternate strategy on the ultralisk section in Back to the Saddle where you break the gates immediately, if you take 50-60 damage
in the previous section where 3 lings, 1 bane and a roach comes you will die. Ultras hit hard haha but it speeds up the section by a few seconds.

wfp

2013-05-02 12:47:44 am

Quote from Garryl:

Can they even morph at all? I thought Drop Pod gave primal zerg that weren't affected by upgrades and mutations.

this was exactly my concern.

NitroxKnight

Edit history:

NitroxKnight: 2013-05-02 05:43:14 am

2013-05-02 05:10:43 am

I have been looking into inproving the The_Reckoning.
First i look in what the best final ability is to destroy the gate.
Apocalypse: precisely 700 dagige
Spawn Leviathan: 705 damige
Drop-Pods: about 700
all have about the same damige range but whit drop-pods kerrigan can get close to the gate for a few auto attaks. I think in total damige of 1100.
Second: Drop-Pods do not spawn creap (i wanted to burrow teleport swarm hots to the gate)
third: primal hydra can't morf into anything.
fourth: Getting some kind of transport to transport hydra's in in inpractical.
The only Medivac on the hole map is not easy to get to http://i.imgur.com/poKEz59.jpg (red circle)

The only thing i'm still looking for is a better route whit less science vessels.

Edit: just got something strange, i got a really good time whit lots of damage on the gate and then whiteout any drop-post/leviaten or something i got the defense drop-pots to the defend the gate.

Freezard

2013-05-03 08:19:04 am

Just to be sure, did anyone get or know of a faster time than 30:08 on All In? Also I know of a faster strategy on Shatter the Sky without using nukes, but you still need an old version for the eastern tower reaper. Basically instead of two rax spectres you go three rax reaper bombs and yamato the southern tower, saves over 20 seconds. I don't know about the SS time on this level, but you could get around 5 minutes by tweaking the strategy a bit and going two rax reapers + one medivac to kill the eastern tower with mmm (I assume you have drop pods at this point).

Fragmaster01

2013-05-03 09:10:42 am

Wiggle wiggle

All-In is a strict 30 minute timer, with 8 second dialog at the end. So no, sorry.

Gorash

2013-05-03 12:28:07 pm

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How do you get the high res minimap screenshots Ntrox? I've been searching for one of Fire in the Sky....

Asteron

2013-05-03 12:49:57 pm

Quote from Gorash:

How do you get the high res minimap screenshots Ntrox? I've been searching for one of Fire in the Sky....

Liquipedia http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campaign/Fire_in_the_Sky

Gorash

2013-05-03 02:29:48 pm

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Figures. Google only found the thumbnail.

NitroxKnight

2013-05-03 04:07:22 pm

I'm getting better at Waking the Ancient. I now have a time of 10:35 that can be improved to 8 min. Will be doing that tomorrow.

jolin012

2013-05-03 07:30:18 pm

I am working on a new route for reckoning. Alot of research but ive finally found a route which also seems to send vessels similarly most times, so that I can plan to do 2 offensive blasts, one vessle, 3 offensives, 3 vessles, then free offence.

178 attempts later(likely not gonna ever be keen to go back at finish it):
[Practice] The Reckoning ~5:09 Failure [Brutal]

the last second is just a mess up, missing the heal too eager to get the final blast off.

If anyones interested in the research associated, why it works(ish), I'll gladly share here

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2013-05-06 03:56:51 pm

Gorash: 2013-05-05 07:18:02 pm

2013-05-03 08:56:32 pm

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Fire in the Sky down to 5:10 now.

wfp

2013-05-03 10:50:24 pm

wow, jolin, seems definitely possible to beat it there. any way to get any other units to the gate and maybe do enough damage so that kerrigan's final kinetic blast doesn't have to be what looks like frame perfect? i can't really tell how much you saturated your base but you have 1100 minerals and 700 gas from the look of it which could equate to 5 mutas (or more if geysers aren't saturated). this map does not have a ton of anti-air and if you can get just a handful of mutas there, they could make all the difference or maybe even a viper yanking a tank could help kerrigan not die by reducing the damage she takes?

jolin012

Edit history:

jolin012: 2013-05-04 07:22:52 pm

jolin012: 2013-05-04 07:21:54 pm

2013-05-04 07:20:54 pm

the strategy as of now uses no base or economy or army apart from one set of zerglings(to trigger a certain cutscene at a certain time) and one spore crawler(sent to raynors base so we dont lose mission of base is destroyed). Rest is free to spend/macro up, only it takes additional multitasking.

Anything that could help more than the loss of focus on kerrigan would be great. perhaps a burrowed roach which baits a vessle to where kerrigan is not, or an infestor stealing vessles, or mutas/vipers/broodlords as you say for damaging palace vessles or tanks (tanks would not speed anything up only make it safer). but I have not found a way to safely get with roaches or infestors fast enough (probably bait one before 3 mins, because after 3:30 no more vessles bother kerrigan normally) and deep enough to where actually relevant vessels are baited. I have tried mutalisk but I cannot seem to find the weak spot in the anti air defenses a video or route drawn on map would be much appreciated. Also these are only the concepts I have explored, I have not looked into much detail just bluntly sent 12 roaches left and right and found that they die before they bait a relevant vessel. http://i.imgur.com/xoiSkY3.jpg
This picture shows what I mean with relevant vessle. all circled things are vessles/ravens. for example the red vessles only react to burrowed units that have crossed the red lines. I think the ones that care if we burrow by the palace are the yellow ones. and, they get replaced by new ones ofcourse, once we kill them which would explain why there are more than 3. I would guess the unpredictability of vessles could come from randomness of which order they are sent, which also affects its time of arrival.

the strategy as of now uses no base or economy or army apart from one set of zerglings(to trigger a certain cutscene at a certain time) and one spore crawler(sent to raynors base so we dont lose mission of base is destroyed). Rest is free to spend/macro up, only it takes additional multitasking.

Anything that could help more than the loss of focus on kerrigan would be great. perhaps a burrowed roach which baits a vessle to where kerrigan is not, or an infestor stealing vessles, or mutas/vipers/broodlords as you say for damaging palace vessles or tanks (tanks would not speed anything up only make it safer). but I have not found a way to safely get with roaches or infestors fast enough (probably bait one before 3 mins, because after 3:30 no more vessles bother kerrigan normally) and deep enough to where actually relevant vessels are baited. I have tried mutalisk but I cannot seem to find the weak spot in the anti air defenses a video or route drawn on map would be much appreciated. Also these are only the concepts I have explored, I have not looked into much detail just bluntly sent 12 roaches left and right and found that they die before they bait a relevant vessel. http://i.imgur.com/xoiSkY3.jpg
This picture shows what I mean with relevant vessle. all circled things are vessles/ravens. for example the red vessles only react to burrowed units that have crossed the red lines. I think the ones that care if we burrow by the palace are the yellow ones. and, they get replaced by new ones ofcourse, once we kill them which would explain why there are more than 3. I would guess the unpredictability of vessles could come from randomness of which order they are sent, which also affects its time of arrival.

Raelcun

Edit history:

Raelcun: 2013-05-04 09:08:15 pm

2013-05-04 09:05:26 pm

We require more minerals

Seems like just making a spire immediately, then rallying 5-6 mutas straight at the gate around the edge of the map would do it. They wouldn't have to do a large amount of damage to finish it. They would also distract some damage from the gate guns away from Kerrigan making the final kinetic blast safer.

Use a drone at the start to build an extractor on the empty gas with the automatic harvesting extractors and you'd definitely get some mutas out in time.

wfp

2013-05-04 11:47:48 pm

yeah, i'd try what raelcun says.

alternately, i image there are better routes but skip to 13 minutes in this video and try this route for mutas (not me):

Raelcun

Edit history:

Raelcun: 2013-05-05 12:42:24 am

Raelcun: 2013-05-05 12:42:22 am

2013-05-05 12:41:59 am

We require more minerals

The path he takes around the map is the safest way to go. You can fly it much shorter, but I would definitely go along the left side. It has the least amount of anti air and you can get there without taking many shots at all. The vikings are really the only things along the way. The right side has much more anti air and more vikings as well. As long as you magic box the mutas on the way to the gate, you won't take too much damage from the turrets and then can just move them over towards where Kerrigan is to hit the gate and take fire from the gate gun.

jolin012

2013-05-05 05:21:49 am

this is as far as I can get, I dont think I can get any farther before 5 minutes. more info on how i get to the savepoint this video loadfs from in video description.

so unless there is a technique or path i dont know of i dont think mutas can do anything about the palace itself or its tanks.
oh ofcourse, with overlords flying in to take the first few shots, we could have one more muta, which makes only minor difference.
Edit: tried not killing the three vikings, its faster and no muta dies, so i get to go in and deal 16 damage to a tank Smiley

wfp

2013-05-05 08:16:24 am

yeah, this was why i was suggesting morphing them to vipers. i really didn't expect more than one or two to get through, but whereas if a muta gets through and only manages a hit the damage it does is pretty much insignificant one hit from a viper could mean an abduct which could pull a tank out of range and buy kerrigan just a little more health making the mission that much easier to complete.

jolin012

2013-05-05 09:44:26 am

i think you're gonna run into problems using vipers since you need to start the teching early, eating into muta production, and then they have to morph once they got past the first vikings, losing 10 or 20 seconds, cant remember how long they take, meaning we have to leave earlier, again with less mutas, so maybe 4 or 5 mutas instead of 11. and if we do get there I'm worried that if a tank is our target it wont be of help if we grab it in the last second, i think we'd wanna grab it a few cycles earlier to make a real difference.

I would say it seems roaches or infestors could be the only money well spent. perhaps suiciding overlords to help roaches get past turrets, in order to bait vessels. This would as opposed to grabbing tanks save us time (~10sec/vessel) and health, because vessels are what brings down our health the most, especially when odin is in the wrong place.

Gorash

2013-05-07 01:19:09 am

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Update on Fire in the Sky. I'm pretty sure there are up to 10s in this strategy, but I have been unable so far to get everything right.

jolin012

Edit history:

jolin012: 2013-05-07 02:22:13 am

2013-05-07 02:21:57 am

very nice gorash, I think this is not very far from an ideal strategy, and execution is good too

I have some dieas for minor improvements
*Since banelings are vital for the major combats, instead of casting the first one after 30 seconds, cast one immediately as the game starts, and use them later on.
*I think it is definitely worthwhile to take the first levelup even in an il run, since it gives you beter stats and restores health and energy. So, quelling leap towards it through the enemy units.
*The topright scourge nest is defended by merely 1 tank and one thor, it probably does not need your entire army to go this way, maybe its enough with a bunch of lings and a drone and queen. so - bring an extra drone.
*For each bunch of units we need to get past we have (at least) three options: kill them, distract them and run a drone+queen by them, spread creeptumors by them/around them. Obviously the two later options are more not viable for early groups of enemies, for then army would not participate any further whatsoever, but perhaps for the last scourge nest with maligant creep and a ton of tumors overwhelming the ghost defending the nest it would be faster to just spread it up there (this would allow us to waste our army earlier). Also continous maligant creepspread if possible would make our army stronger and faster. Dont know about the one until someone has tried but it might just work out a little faster.

very nice gorash, I think this is not very far from an ideal strategy, and execution is good too

I have some dieas for minor improvements
*Since banelings are vital for the major combats, instead of casting the first one after 30 seconds, cast one immediately as the game starts, and use them later on.
*I think it is definitely worthwhile to take the first levelup even in an il run, since it gives you beter stats and restores health and energy. So, quelling leap towards it through the enemy units.
*The topright scourge nest is defended by merely 1 tank and one thor, it probably does not need your entire army to go this way, maybe its enough with a bunch of lings and a drone and queen. so - bring an extra drone.
*For each bunch of units we need to get past we have (at least) three options: kill them, distract them and run a drone+queen by them, spread creeptumors by them/around them. Obviously the two later options are more not viable for early groups of enemies, for then army would not participate any further whatsoever, but perhaps for the last scourge nest with maligant creep and a ton of tumors overwhelming the ghost defending the nest it would be faster to just spread it up there (this would allow us to waste our army earlier). Also continous maligant creepspread if possible would make our army stronger and faster. Dont know about the one until someone has tried but it might just work out a little faster.

Gorash (work)

2013-05-07 02:41:21 am

I think it looks sloppy as hell.

* I tried precasting the first banelings, but I need to wait for the reinforcements anyway. It's just a timing that I found to work well and reliable.
* Not sure about the level up. I need the two mineral pickups after the bunker right on time. You'd also need to take some lings and get the mineral pickups to the lower right. I tried to do that for a while, but found that I lost time due to bad multitasking.
* Merely one tank and one thor? Have you seen what those freaks do to your army? The whole reason I take on the tank+4ghosts with my army is to have banelings ready for those two. But yes, that is one of the sloppy points in the run, I feel someone with better control can get out a lot time there.
* I haven't explored malignant creep options in this level at all. I don't think it saves time.

Endless

Edit history:

Endless: 2013-05-10 10:13:19 am

2013-05-10 10:12:23 am

In case any of y'all don't know this yet, you can open any campaign map in the editor. File>Open>Campaign tab (other tabs are Local Files and Battle.net). HotS maps are in the "Swarm" folder, while WoL maps are all just hanging loose. If you want some help understanding how an element of a map works, ask me; I have a fair amount of experience with the editor.
I'm saying this in response to Gorash, who wanted but could not find high res images of the campaign maps. This could be done very easily through the editor (View>View Entire Map).

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2013-05-11 03:08:51 am

2013-05-11 03:08:33 am

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I admit I never even looked at the SC2 editor after some very frustrating hours with the warcraft3 editor.

Endless

2013-05-13 06:19:39 pm

You would be very frustrated with Galaxy; it's more powerful than worldedit, but unreasonably difficult to use. Still, triggers remain similar to worldedit's, and you should be able to look at a map and grasp what's happening as long as you steer clear of the data editor.