yeah, cutthroat is a major timesaver for a bunch of reasons, but haven's fall isn't bad if you unlock it and still gives the protoss research though it'd be adding a mission to the current route if somehow evacuation and outbreak were faster (has anyone tested killing the bases on evacuation? the only video i found cut it so close i couldn't be sure if it triggers the mission to end early). ultimately i feel the biggest savings on the ss segment are figuring out a way to beat the mission without nukes or mira's forces, but i'm totally lost on how this could be accomplished. maybe herc strats (though i can't remember if we have the necessary zerg research (or get it if the route on devil's playground is ammended to kill the brutalisk again))?
SDA Forum
We require more minerals
You'd need a lot more zerg research than just Brutalisk to get Herc by Cutthroat. You start with 3 zerg, Brutalisk gives an extra three. You need to get to 15 in order to get Herc.
So you're at 6 and need 9 more. The next zerg research is in Great Train Robbery, but that's 3. You need 6 more zerg research. You'd have to do extra missions in order to Herc Cutthroat anyway.
So you're at 6 and need 9 more. The next zerg research is in Great Train Robbery, but that's 3. You need 6 more zerg research. You'd have to do extra missions in order to Herc Cutthroat anyway.
okay, did some experimenting with cutthroat. unfortunately i can't record, but i'm not great with micro anyway and i think i can do a decent job describing it.
basically our ss route is on the slow side so i tried to come up with something better and i think i have a MUCH better solution. once you recruit mira you get two seige breakers. these babies have range to hit orlan's pf from the low ground, specifically if you seige them on the left scrap masher directly south of the pf. the problem with doing this is a) vision and b) orlan's forces. both of these can be remedied without too much difficulty. using a floating building you can spot for the seige breakers, taking out the two problematic turrets near the edge of the base and getting to work on orlan's forces. orlan's forces will trickle out and try to attack the tanks as you start attacking the pf. but you get plenty of other forces to deal with his crap the only real threat being his jackson's revenge, which i died to after clearing half the pf's life (but suggested to me the strategy's completely viable). it strikes me that with better kiting the jackson's revenge will go down easy making this a better option than waiting for additional waves, orlan's nuke etc. point is we don't need anything but mira's forces to beat this mission (and honestly we only really need her seige breakers and anti-air).
basically our ss route is on the slow side so i tried to come up with something better and i think i have a MUCH better solution. once you recruit mira you get two seige breakers. these babies have range to hit orlan's pf from the low ground, specifically if you seige them on the left scrap masher directly south of the pf. the problem with doing this is a) vision and b) orlan's forces. both of these can be remedied without too much difficulty. using a floating building you can spot for the seige breakers, taking out the two problematic turrets near the edge of the base and getting to work on orlan's forces. orlan's forces will trickle out and try to attack the tanks as you start attacking the pf. but you get plenty of other forces to deal with his crap the only real threat being his jackson's revenge, which i died to after clearing half the pf's life (but suggested to me the strategy's completely viable). it strikes me that with better kiting the jackson's revenge will go down easy making this a better option than waiting for additional waves, orlan's nuke etc. point is we don't need anything but mira's forces to beat this mission (and honestly we only really need her seige breakers and anti-air).
It took a lot of effort, but I found a new strategy which ended up being 1:18 faster than the current record. No spectres used and I ditch gas harvesting completely. Instead I mass produce SCVs for minerals and the ending. I start with sending out a Banshee to the southern Nexus because it's the most protected one and there's no other way to take it out than with a cloaked unit, then I take out the middle Nexus with the three starting Vikings (which is really tough because of the shitty flight mechanics in this game) and the top one with two Reapers. I drop pod two more Reapers to the southern Nexus for their cluster bombs, all in all a 20 second improvement. The largest improvement though comes from the ending where I mass build Turrets and one Bunker for aggro. Funny thing with the Marines inside, the Mothership will target the Bunker most of the time, otherwise it will kill the repairing SCVs. Also you can't have too many SCVs clumped together or it will use its vortex which also warps in units. Simply put, a lot of **** that can go wrong.
We require more minerals
Quote from Endless:
In Lab Rat, has anyone figured out a consistent way of getting the sentry bots outside the gas chamber to stay put, and the ones in the eradicator room to follow your lings?
Pull your drones and have them attack the turrets/sentry bots outside the gas chamber. Run the lings up the ramp. When the drones die the sentry bots won't follow.
Basically they only chase what they can see. If the units they are attacking die and nothing else is in range they just reset.
Quote from Freezard:
It took a lot of effort, but I found a new strategy which ended up being 1:16 faster than the current record. No spectres used and I ditch gas harvesting completely. Instead I mass produce SCVs for minerals and the ending. I start with sending out a Banshee to the southern Nexus because it's the most protected one and there's no other way to take it out than with a cloaked unit, then I take out the middle Nexus with the three starting Vikings (which is really tough because of the shitty flight mechanics in this game) and the top one with two Reapers. I drop pod two more Reapers to the southern Nexus for their cluster bombs, all in all a 20 second improvement. The largest improvement though comes from the ending where I mass build Turrets and one Bunker for aggro. Funny thing with the Marines inside, the Mothership will target the Bunker most of the time, otherwise it will kill the repairing SCVs. Also you can't have too many SCVs clumped together or it will use its vortex which also warps in units. Simply put, a lot of **** that can go wrong if you do one mistake.
Also I just realized I could have kept the Medics inside the Bunker and stimmed constantly, but it would have cost SCVs instead. Well, something to keep in mind.
Also I just realized I could have kept the Medics inside the Bunker and stimmed constantly, but it would have cost SCVs instead. Well, something to keep in mind.
Wow, nice! You even get the purifier before it destroys the first base!
You already mentioned one possible improvement, the medics in the bunker. Some others:
- The top left turret is built too far away and never fires at the purifier, build it closer.
- You have leftover minerals and idle SCVs with group build before the purified arrives, perhaps one more turrets could be built?
- It looks like you do not have the viking upgrades, which I think are possible to have if you play the Zerg viking mission first instead.
We require more minerals
That's not how the mission archive works in SC2. If you play the Zerg viking mission and then play the Protoss one via the mission archive you won't have any upgrades that you purchased via the armory. It's silly and the reason why the IL runners vastly prefer the master archive in HotS.
Ah, I didn't notice that turret not firing. The SCVS kept getting stuck so I spaced em out a little, but too much apparently. Anyway I got a 3:54 using stim and better turret placements, but I can't do much about the minerals cause if I have more than five SCVs/units nearby, the Mothership will do its vortex. Sometimes it will do it anyway if the Vikings are in a wrong position cause it's a pretty big radius. I updated the video above, thanks for the tips.
Quote from Raelcun:
That's not how the mission archive works in SC2. If you play the Zerg viking mission and then play the Protoss one via the mission archive you won't have any upgrades that you purchased via the armory. It's silly and the reason why the IL runners vastly prefer the master archive in HotS.
Hmm, that's odd. According to Liquipedia:
"Completing Haven's Fall prior to undertaking Safe Haven, and purchasing the Mercenary contract for the Hel's Angels and the range upgrade for Vikings from the Armory makes this mission vastly simpler."
I don't have the possibility to check for myself at the moment.
Got another hots mission down,
Death From Above 5:51 [Brutal]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z8hXLmFpWhc#t=32s
Comments on the new strat(do watch it first if youre gonna read):
Video pretty much speaks for itself: The big time constraint is domination spell cooldown (cannot be improved by kerrigan ability efficiency) thus all work before will be to get as much done as possible for maximum consistency in success. in this attempt some things fail some work brilliantly, but enough to take it down. some tricks less obvious to spot: dehaka kills the guy who would otherwise speak and delay cutscene. (if only one marine follows him he can instead kill upper marine whom speaks longer). Overlords on follow command so to stack easier and draw less aggro. Since vikings are faster than ovs and medivacs, suicide some backwards when vikings would otherwise try to follow. lings take less cargo and cheaper at time of departure therefore lings. torn on targeting turret to have ovs survive whom can be healed up and act meatshield or should tank be killed off first for fast safety of spawn banelings. Failed attempt (forgetting to micro back kerrigan) at mind controling bc before it hurts kerrigan, so it can tank dmg, yamato away, and kerrigan can jump across platform to help kill psy destroyer.
but then most things should be quite clear, its not a very complicated strat but afaik its new, faster than mutas and maybe infestor+medivac can be applied to other missions.
Death From Above 5:51 [Brutal]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z8hXLmFpWhc#t=32s
Comments on the new strat(do watch it first if youre gonna read):
Video pretty much speaks for itself: The big time constraint is domination spell cooldown (cannot be improved by kerrigan ability efficiency) thus all work before will be to get as much done as possible for maximum consistency in success. in this attempt some things fail some work brilliantly, but enough to take it down. some tricks less obvious to spot: dehaka kills the guy who would otherwise speak and delay cutscene. (if only one marine follows him he can instead kill upper marine whom speaks longer). Overlords on follow command so to stack easier and draw less aggro. Since vikings are faster than ovs and medivacs, suicide some backwards when vikings would otherwise try to follow. lings take less cargo and cheaper at time of departure therefore lings. torn on targeting turret to have ovs survive whom can be healed up and act meatshield or should tank be killed off first for fast safety of spawn banelings. Failed attempt (forgetting to micro back kerrigan) at mind controling bc before it hurts kerrigan, so it can tank dmg, yamato away, and kerrigan can jump across platform to help kill psy destroyer.
but then most things should be quite clear, its not a very complicated strat but afaik its new, faster than mutas and maybe infestor+medivac can be applied to other missions.
Quote from jolin012:
Got another hots mission down,
Death From Above 5:51 [Brutal]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z8hXLmFpWhc#t=32s
Death From Above 5:51 [Brutal]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z8hXLmFpWhc#t=32s
Looks great! I don't really see much to improve with this strat except maybe baiting the BC closer to the infestor with a medivac while you are waiting for the domination cool down. Also you can tell the 30 broolings spawned by the domination blast to attack the disruptor instead of running off (might as well hit F2 to get broodlings + banelings). Still though I'm not sure that's enough to kill the disruptor before that volley of banelings so there might not be much time saved.
And once again Terran units is the way to go for Zerg, lol. Nice improvement 
Not the best frame rate in the video though.
I improved the mission by 33 seconds, but it's the same strategy/route really, I'm just covering more ground by splitting up the Reapers. Also I'm collecting the far away mineral deposits with drop pods, nets you about 500 minerals. I'd say it's pretty optimized, I only missed two mineral deposits which would have saved 2 seconds and then you can probably collect the four mineral deposits at the Brutalisk if you're a monster at multi-tasking... but that's too much for me.
I improved the mission by 33 seconds, but it's the same strategy/route really, I'm just covering more ground by splitting up the Reapers. Also I'm collecting the far away mineral deposits with drop pods, nets you about 500 minerals. I'd say it's pretty optimized, I only missed two mineral deposits which would have saved 2 seconds and then you can probably collect the four mineral deposits at the Brutalisk if you're a monster at multi-tasking... but that's too much for me.
nice run jolin. i think my question is if getting multiple infestors over and dominating the terran units you apocalypse might be faster. it looks like there are about two thors and three battlecruisers which could potentially mop up all the marines and what not before attacking the psi disruptor though you'd probably need to use kerrigan to bait them into range and definitely want her spawing as many broodlings and banelings as possible.
also freezard, that's awesome. i'm not sure that's actually the current strat for welcome to the jungle just optimized better it looks completely new to me, though it's been a while since i saw the il strat instead of the ss one.
also freezard, that's awesome. i'm not sure that's actually the current strat for welcome to the jungle just optimized better it looks completely new to me, though it's been a while since i saw the il strat instead of the ss one.
Medivacs is probably not the way to go, this should have been more obvious to try in the first place:
Death From Above 4:47 (-1:04) [Brutal]
The reason for the low framerate is because my 4yo laptop cant seem to get higher even with a suitable codec. but some of the lags are from the game lagging as well heh. anyways, the strategy can probably do sub 4 mins with better fewer mistakes and incorporating ordinary attacks vs Psy Destroyer while kerrigan is at full health anyways. My best was 4:18 but unfortunately I had gotten too used to the stop-and-discard-recording hotkey and you can figure the rest...
(╯°益°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Tips on executing the strat:
try to go a little left of the barracks as you go past at 0:57 in video, so to bait raven (our arch nemesis) to ensure its dead or it iwll seek you out later on. A mechanic of this map is that you are granted vision of the vikings, so when vikings are in air we can see turrets, but when we are close to vikings they land, and we dont see turrets. tactic is to tease a burrow so that vikings start to lift, when they start to lift we got just enough time to kill a turret retreat and burrow. A mistake i make (why it takes so long to heal up) is to not go far back enough. stay out of range of tanks( or crushing grip them) while healing to full health. 2 fast psyonic shifts and a heal and insta burrow is fast enough for the yamato cannon not to go off, it can be heard charging up in the video.
Death From Above 4:47 (-1:04) [Brutal]
The reason for the low framerate is because my 4yo laptop cant seem to get higher even with a suitable codec. but some of the lags are from the game lagging as well heh. anyways, the strategy can probably do sub 4 mins with better fewer mistakes and incorporating ordinary attacks vs Psy Destroyer while kerrigan is at full health anyways. My best was 4:18 but unfortunately I had gotten too used to the stop-and-discard-recording hotkey and you can figure the rest...
(╯°益°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Tips on executing the strat:
try to go a little left of the barracks as you go past at 0:57 in video, so to bait raven (our arch nemesis) to ensure its dead or it iwll seek you out later on. A mechanic of this map is that you are granted vision of the vikings, so when vikings are in air we can see turrets, but when we are close to vikings they land, and we dont see turrets. tactic is to tease a burrow so that vikings start to lift, when they start to lift we got just enough time to kill a turret retreat and burrow. A mistake i make (why it takes so long to heal up) is to not go far back enough. stay out of range of tanks( or crushing grip them) while healing to full health. 2 fast psyonic shifts and a heal and insta burrow is fast enough for the yamato cannon not to go off, it can be heard charging up in the video.
With exams finishing up soon, it's time to start routing the SS for HOTS. I will try and route all of the maps that are not completed on the IL list past the 30th of april.
I do realize some stuff was spoken about earlier towards the SS, but i'll try to edit this post to make things easier. These are some initial questions I will be asking and
trying to answer through my routing.
Questions
is the mutalisk strain necessary for the strategy used on the reckoning?
How many Kerrigan levels will I require at a bare minimum?
What IL strats are pretty much non-viable and require a SS route?
What mission path should I take?
Which evolutions are necessary?
What missions can I save time by not changing to "optimal" Kerrigan setups through menu time?
Is there any time that can be saved on the chrystalis mission?
What are the mechanics of the second boss on Supreme?
My initial thoughts are the zergling and baneling evolutions will be necessary using raptors and splitters of course
as splitters make a number off missions MUCH easier to complete, especially the Kaldir mission set.
Meaning.... mission path will be
Char
Zerus
Kaldir
Raynor
Narud
Mengsk
Zerus is done before Kaldir as getting Kerrigan into the Chrystalis should be done ASAP.
I do realize some stuff was spoken about earlier towards the SS, but i'll try to edit this post to make things easier. These are some initial questions I will be asking and
trying to answer through my routing.
Questions
is the mutalisk strain necessary for the strategy used on the reckoning?
How many Kerrigan levels will I require at a bare minimum?
What IL strats are pretty much non-viable and require a SS route?
What mission path should I take?
Which evolutions are necessary?
What missions can I save time by not changing to "optimal" Kerrigan setups through menu time?
Is there any time that can be saved on the chrystalis mission?
What are the mechanics of the second boss on Supreme?
My initial thoughts are the zergling and baneling evolutions will be necessary using raptors and splitters of course
as splitters make a number off missions MUCH easier to complete, especially the Kaldir mission set.
Meaning.... mission path will be
Char
Zerus
Kaldir
Raynor
Narud
Mengsk
Zerus is done before Kaldir as getting Kerrigan into the Chrystalis should be done ASAP.
nice run jolin thanks for explaining how you had vision of the turrets. i was wondering how that happened.
dime, i'll try to go through your questions as best i can though i haven't tested any of this.
-the reckoning can be beaten with pure mutalisks and in fact there's speculation that the time it takes to morph brood lords doesn't make them significantly advantageous. the optimal number of mutalisks has to my knowledge yet to be determined.
-okay, i looked through for a chart of how many levels kerrigan gains from each mission and failing to find one, made my own. kerrigan starts at level 1 (not 0). she does not gain levels either automatically or from bonus objectives on the first three and last three missions. on char she automatically gets 5 levels for completing the first mission plus 7 more (2,3,2) from bonus objectives on the missions there. the crucible gives 10 levels for free and supreme gives 5. bonus objectives on zerus give 8 (3,1,4). harvest of screams gives 5 levels on kaldir, every other level there only gives bonus levels of 6 total (2,3,1). conviction is the only mission of the space missions that gives levels, specifically 9 automatically and 2 bonus. skygeirr has 4 automatic levels on phantoms of the void plus 8 total bonus levels (3,2,3). since i don't think the abilities at level 10, 35, or 60 are that useful, the only real question is how quickly can you get to level 50 (level 5 being reached after the fourth mission and level 20 reached on zerus at a point where you can't alter kerrigan's abilities). the earliest this can happen is after conviction, and i do think they are necessary for infested so fifteen bonus objectives are going to need to be collected out of 23 (after which point i think bonus objectives can be ignored). i'll let you make the assessment of which 8 not to collect. depending on whether your route includes freeing the brutalisks on hand of darkness i imagine you will finish the game at level 54-56.
-it's pretty early to make this assessment. i'd play around and see your results. as of right now no route uses top tier abilities the only missions i can really see having non-viable strats are conviction and the char missions, maybe waking the ancient.
-your mission path of char, zerus, kaldir, raynor, narud appears to be the fastest by far considering how good primal kerrigan is on kaldir.
-i'm not convinced any evlotions are necessary as i don't think zerglings and banelings are used enough that upgrading them actually saves time but some experimentation needs to be done. i'm guessing it's extremely close favoring getting zerglings but not banelings. it might be interesting to practice routes both getting and not getting their evolutions and assessing whether doing the missions actually generates the savings.
-i don't know which missions you do and don't need to change kerrigan's stats in general it comes down to whether a strat requires leaping strike or kinetic blast, banelings or mend. most current strats very specifically need these abilities to be one or the other.
-the crucible can be shortened based on how quickly you get to the initial waypoint, but otherwise no.
-the second boss has two attacks of spitting acid in a circle and ramming. i actually don't know if you can bait him into only doing one of these. it seems the best strat is to have your army attack him while dodging attacks with kerrigan psionic shifting any other enemies that appear and attacking when she's free, but there may be a more aggressive faster strat, mostly the key seems to be keeping your army alive.
dime, i'll try to go through your questions as best i can though i haven't tested any of this.
-the reckoning can be beaten with pure mutalisks and in fact there's speculation that the time it takes to morph brood lords doesn't make them significantly advantageous. the optimal number of mutalisks has to my knowledge yet to be determined.
-okay, i looked through for a chart of how many levels kerrigan gains from each mission and failing to find one, made my own. kerrigan starts at level 1 (not 0). she does not gain levels either automatically or from bonus objectives on the first three and last three missions. on char she automatically gets 5 levels for completing the first mission plus 7 more (2,3,2) from bonus objectives on the missions there. the crucible gives 10 levels for free and supreme gives 5. bonus objectives on zerus give 8 (3,1,4). harvest of screams gives 5 levels on kaldir, every other level there only gives bonus levels of 6 total (2,3,1). conviction is the only mission of the space missions that gives levels, specifically 9 automatically and 2 bonus. skygeirr has 4 automatic levels on phantoms of the void plus 8 total bonus levels (3,2,3). since i don't think the abilities at level 10, 35, or 60 are that useful, the only real question is how quickly can you get to level 50 (level 5 being reached after the fourth mission and level 20 reached on zerus at a point where you can't alter kerrigan's abilities). the earliest this can happen is after conviction, and i do think they are necessary for infested so fifteen bonus objectives are going to need to be collected out of 23 (after which point i think bonus objectives can be ignored). i'll let you make the assessment of which 8 not to collect. depending on whether your route includes freeing the brutalisks on hand of darkness i imagine you will finish the game at level 54-56.
-it's pretty early to make this assessment. i'd play around and see your results. as of right now no route uses top tier abilities the only missions i can really see having non-viable strats are conviction and the char missions, maybe waking the ancient.
-your mission path of char, zerus, kaldir, raynor, narud appears to be the fastest by far considering how good primal kerrigan is on kaldir.
-i'm not convinced any evlotions are necessary as i don't think zerglings and banelings are used enough that upgrading them actually saves time but some experimentation needs to be done. i'm guessing it's extremely close favoring getting zerglings but not banelings. it might be interesting to practice routes both getting and not getting their evolutions and assessing whether doing the missions actually generates the savings.
-i don't know which missions you do and don't need to change kerrigan's stats in general it comes down to whether a strat requires leaping strike or kinetic blast, banelings or mend. most current strats very specifically need these abilities to be one or the other.
-the crucible can be shortened based on how quickly you get to the initial waypoint, but otherwise no.
-the second boss has two attacks of spitting acid in a circle and ramming. i actually don't know if you can bait him into only doing one of these. it seems the best strat is to have your army attack him while dodging attacks with kerrigan psionic shifting any other enemies that appear and attacking when she's free, but there may be a more aggressive faster strat, mostly the key seems to be keeping your army alive.