Star Fox 64 "Red Line" - Video on p.3

Sir VG

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-02-25 03:02:28 pm

2006-02-11 01:24:30 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Seeing TSA's SF64 run was quite fun. But let's up the stakes some.

A "Red Line" run consists of getting on the hard route and staying on there the entire game. This is, of course, NOT the optimal route, but it's more challenging.

How to follow the route:

Corneria: Keep Falco alive, fly through all the arches in the water portion.
Sector Y: 100+ Kills
Aquas: Only one route.
Zoness: Shoot all the spotlights.
Sector Z: Shoot down all 6 missiles
Area 6: Only one route

I've done my v1 run, but I'm sure it can be improved. But the hardest parts? Aquas, Zoness, and Venom vs Star Wolf.

Aquas is hard with the funky finger configuration I have to have to do fast and keep myself alive. Imagine having to hit C-Left, B, A, Z, and the stick all at the same time. The right hand gets a bit cramped.

Zoness is hard to get a couple of the spolights. Keeping Katt and Falco alive is a MUST, as they'll take out a couple spotlights each.

Star Wolf battle is usually tricky but fortunately there's a cheat to it by hitting Start when they show up, which cuts the cutscene and allows you to sneak up behind them. I managed to take out Wolf before he got out of formation.

I also got a bit unlucky with Andross, as an asteroid came out of nowhere and smacked me into his mouth. Byebye wings/dual lasers. ;_; Flying w/o wings during the 2nd Andross battle and the escape sequence isn't easy.

Good points? Excellent Corneria, excellent on the 1st 2 robots at Sector Y (I took out the first one before Slippy was done analysing!).

Time: 46:30

Still plenty of room to improve, but this was just v1 after all.

Thread title:

Seeing TSA's SF64 run was quite fun.  But let's up the stakes some.

A "Red Line" run consists of getting on the hard route and staying on there the entire game.  This is, of course, NOT the optimal route, but it's more challenging.

How to follow the route:

Corneria: Keep Falco alive, fly through all the arches in the water portion.
Sector Y: 100+ Kills
Aquas: Only one route.
Zoness: Shoot all the spotlights.
Sector Z: Shoot down all 6 missiles
Area 6: Only one route

I've done my v1 run, but I'm sure it can be improved.  But the hardest parts?  Aquas, Zoness, and Venom vs Star Wolf.

Aquas is hard with the funky finger configuration I have to have to do fast and keep myself alive.  Imagine having to hit C-Left, B, A, Z, and the stick all at the same time.  The right hand gets a bit cramped.

Zoness is hard to get a couple of the spolights.  Keeping Katt and Falco alive is a MUST, as they'll take out a couple spotlights each.

Star Wolf battle is usually tricky but fortunately there's a cheat to it by hitting Start when they show up, which cuts the cutscene and allows you to sneak up behind them.  I managed to take out Wolf before he got out of formation.

I also got a bit unlucky with Andross, as an asteroid came out of nowhere and smacked me into his mouth.  Byebye wings/dual lasers. ;_;  Flying w/o wings during the 2nd Andross battle and the escape sequence isn't easy.

Good points?  Excellent Corneria, excellent on the 1st 2 robots at Sector Y (I took out the first one before Slippy was done analysing!).

Time: 46:30

Still plenty of room to improve, but this was just v1 after all.

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-11 02:59:29 pm

Sleeping Terror

Heh, this sounds like fun. So I tried a run. I haven't played SF64 in years and years, and I didn't remember too much... took me a few seconds to remember how to boost, even.

Corneria: Held down boost, shot a bunch of stuff. Not a hard level. Got blue lasers, of course.

Sector Y: I thought I needed 150 HIT. I didn't boost as much, but I still played rather wildly. Coming up on the boss, I had 89 HIT, and was about to give up when I remembered that I only needed 100. Hahaha.

Aquas: Too dark to see much... so I kept smashing my fingers down on C<, B, and A, and moved the control stick a lot. Wait... can you fail this mission? I was thinking I needed HITs, and I got 120 or so, but now that I think about it more I'm not sure if you can even fail.

Zoness: Nearly flew past a couple searchlights. One, I didn't even see (I guess I wasn't looking at the screen, if I didn't see it...), but I caught it in my wild shooting just before I went past. This was where I remembered about bombs.

Sector Z: Went well enough. I don't like this level much, and I was worried about it, but it wasn't as close as Zoness, Area 6, or Venom.

Area 6: I was pretty close to death before the checkpoint, and again at the end of the level. I also accidentally looped a bunch while trying to boost. I need to stop doing that.

Venom: Star Wolf went down in a few seconds each, but they took my shields down to about half 'cause I wasn't really paying attention to whether I was being shot at or not. Andross-face is easy. On Andross-brain, I flew into him after a good strafing run, and he tore off a wing. Bye bye blue lasers. I might have died, but I killed him with the last possible shot before I flew into him a second time. Then, on the escape, I flew into a couple walls and lost my other wing... finished with no wings and nothing in the shield bar.

Total time: roughly 42:40 (I wasn't recording, so I can't give an exact time). Or was it 41:40? Well, something around there.

I'm just glad I didn't die or screw up, since I haven't played in so long. It's rather fun to play the game like this... makes it a lot more maniacal. I just wish the scoring system were more conductive to it.

Heh, this sounds like fun. So I tried a run. I haven't played SF64 in years and years, and I didn't remember too much... took me a few seconds to remember how to boost, even.

Corneria: Held down boost, shot a bunch of stuff. Not a hard level. Got blue lasers, of course.

Sector Y: I thought I needed 150 HIT. I didn't boost as much, but I still played rather wildly. Coming up on the boss, I had 89 HIT, and was about to give up when I remembered that I only needed 100. Hahaha.

Aquas: Too dark to see much... so I kept smashing my fingers down on C<, B, and A, and moved the control stick a lot. Wait... can you fail this mission? I was thinking I needed HITs, and I got 120 or so, but now that I think about it more I'm not sure if you can even fail.

Zoness: Nearly flew past a couple searchlights. One, I didn't even see (I guess I wasn't looking at the screen, if I didn't see it...), but I caught it in my wild shooting just before I went past. This was where I remembered about bombs.

Sector Z: Went well enough. I don't like this level much, and I was worried about it, but it wasn't as close as Zoness, Area 6, or Venom.

Area 6: I was pretty close to death before the checkpoint, and again at the end of the level. I also accidentally looped a bunch while trying to boost. I need to stop doing that.

Venom: Star Wolf went down in a few seconds each, but they took my shields down to about half 'cause I wasn't really paying attention to whether I was being shot at or not. Andross-face is easy. On Andross-brain, I flew into him after a good strafing run, and he tore off a wing. Bye bye blue lasers. I might have died, but I killed him with the last possible shot before I flew into him a second time. Then, on the escape, I flew into a couple walls and lost my other wing... finished with no wings and nothing in the shield bar.

Total time: roughly 42:40 (I wasn't recording, so I can't give an exact time). Or was it 41:40? Well, something around there.

I'm just glad I didn't die or screw up, since I haven't played in so long. It's rather fun to play the game like this... makes it a lot more maniacal. I just wish the scoring system were more conductive to it.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2006-02-11 08:16:18 pm

2006-02-11 04:45:45 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Indeed it's easy to accidently loop when you're just wanting to boost.

v2 run completed. 42:33 was the time.

It's still possible to do some improvement on it.

1) Stop accidental looping. I did it twice.
2) Boss 3 at Sector Y could be done a bit faster. I still got a +10 bonus, but ugh that guy drives me nuts.
3) A bit faster on the Star Wolf battle.
4) Better Andross 2 battle. Less dancing more blasting.

No deaths, no wings lost. Must cleaner run that I'm happier with. I only lost Slippy at the end of Zoness, but meh.

A funny thing I just figured out.

Bill in $/# of units destroyed = 64. Haha Nintendo.

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-12 01:24:41 pm

Sleeping Terror

You'll have to do a bit better than that. ~_^

I just got 39:35. Lost lasers a couple times, looped once or twice, and had a couple poor boss battles, so I know this can be better.

Sir VG

2006-02-12 09:20:00 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

You'll have to do a bit better than that. ~_^

I just got 39:35. Lost lasers a couple times, looped once or twice, and had a couple poor boss battles, so I know this can be better.

Yes dear.

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-12 10:37:17 pm

Sleeping Terror

*laughs*

KennyMan666

2006-02-12 11:01:01 pm

Precursor

You have to steer clear!

(if anybody gets that reference, they win cookies. And yes, it has something to do with the "Yes dear". Recite the entire conversation and you win cookies with CREAM.)

Anyway, I was considering a Hard Path Lylat Wars run when the first SF64 runs were submitted. I'm looking forward to seeing one.

-Suzaku-

2006-02-12 11:05:28 pm

Eternal Understudy

Old Fred: You've got to steer clear.
Ringo: Steer clear?
Old Fred: Yes, steer. Clear?
Ringo: Yes, dear.

I like Cookies.

And looking forward to the run. Star Fox rules.

MatrixTN

2006-02-13 12:05:24 am

You got a deletion wish?

Quote:

Bill in $/# of units destroyed = 64

I knew that, figured that out after I saw TSA's first one. Go, go, go!

KennyMan666

2006-02-13 12:44:31 am

Precursor

Suzaku wins. As does Yellow Submarine in general.

*dumps a bag of cookies with cream on Suzaku's head*

I forgot the "got", though.

I wonder how low this run can go. Is sub-35 even likely?

Sir VG

2006-02-13 01:02:26 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

Suzaku wins. As does Yellow Submarine in general.

In the town, where I was born, lived a man, who sailed the seas. And he told us of his life, in the land, of submarines...

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-02-13 01:13:12 am

2006-02-13 01:09:10 am

Sleeping Terror

So are we planning to submit this? I can't see how it fits into any of the usual categories. It is fun, though, so I'm not about to argue against it.

I pondered trying to rationalize it as a 100% run, but I think that would be better defined as getting "Mission Accomplished" and a gold medal on each level, along with the best ending.

Rael

2006-02-13 01:19:35 am

I am he as you are he as you are me...oops, wrong movie.

Anyway, back on topic. This could just be the official hard mode, like metroid prime and mzm

soteos

Edit history:

soteos: 2006-02-13 01:25:21 am

2006-02-13 01:24:15 am

But there already is an expert mode.

And is this run being done in expert mode? Since it is going for the harder planets, it wouldn't make much sense to not use expert mode to make it as hard a run as possible.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2006-02-13 01:36:12 am

2006-02-13 01:33:33 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

But there already is an expert mode.

And is this run being done in expert mode? Since it is going for the harder planets, it wouldn't make much sense to not use expert mode to make it as hard a run as possible.

I was only doing mine on Normal. But the route isn't as easy as you think, especially trying to do things fast. Aquas can kill you quite easily trying to rush things, and doing Zoness fast is insane. Area 6 is no pushover either.

Personally, I could see 4 styles of runs for SF64:

Normal "Optimal Route"
Normal "Red Line" Route
Expert "Optimal Route"
Expert "Red Line" Route

But that's just my opinion.

Quote:

I pondered trying to rationalize it as a 100% run, but I think that would be better defined as getting "Mission Accomplished" and a gold medal on each level, along with the best ending.

That would be REALLY hard, especially since...

1) You'd have to keep your wingmen alive the entire game. Slippy is almost impossible.
2) Going through Zoness means Katt shows up in Sector Z. That creates an extra person going after those missiles, which would cost you 11 points...and that level is already tough enough as is.

Getting one in Vector is easy...in fact I did it on v2. You kill Star Wolf fast enough, there's your medal right there.

[quote]But there already is an expert mode.

And is this run being done in expert mode? Since it is going for the harder planets, it wouldn't make much sense to not use expert mode to make it as hard a run as possible.[/quote]

I was only doing mine on Normal.  But the route isn't as easy as you think, especially trying to do things fast.  Aquas can kill you quite easily trying to rush things, and doing Zoness fast is insane.  Area 6 is no pushover either.

Personally, I could see 4 styles of runs for SF64:

Normal "Optimal Route"
Normal "Red Line" Route
Expert "Optimal Route"
Expert "Red Line" Route

But that's just my opinion.

[quote]I pondered trying to rationalize it as a 100% run, but I think that would be better defined as getting "Mission Accomplished" and a gold medal on each level, along with the best ending. [/quote]

That would be REALLY hard, especially since...

1) You'd have to keep your wingmen alive the entire game.  Slippy is almost impossible.
2) Going through Zoness means Katt shows up in Sector Z.  That creates an extra person going after those missiles, which would cost you 11 points...and that level is already tough enough as is.

Getting one in Vector is easy...in fact I did it on v2.  You kill Star Wolf fast enough, there's your medal right there.

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-13 06:41:07 pm

Sleeping Terror

Quote:

That would be REALLY hard, especially since...

1) You'd have to keep your wingmen alive the entire game. Slippy is almost impossible.
2) Going through Zoness means Katt shows up in Sector Z. That creates an extra person going after those missiles, which would cost you 11 points...and that level is already tough enough as is.

Getting one in Vector is easy...in fact I did it on v2. You kill Star Wolf fast enough, there's your medal right there.

1) Impossible? Not really. I did it on my last run.
2) That's if you go through Zoness. In a 100% run, sure, you'd always have to get "Mission Accomplished"... but you don't have to go to the hardest level available. You just need to end up going through Area 6 for the good ending.
3) Venom? Yep. I did it on my last run.

The only real hard part will be getting all the gold medals while going fast.

I tried another redline run. It was going well at first.... I killed the Sector Y boss in less than four seconds, before his intro text had completely vanished. But then I screwed up Zoness, twice, and quit.

Also! I timed the end-of-level HIT counter... contrary to TSA's comments, it takes just as long no matter how many enemies you kill. So go wild! (I think getting a gold medal will cost a couple seconds, however.)

[quote]That would be REALLY hard, especially since...

1) You'd have to keep your wingmen alive the entire game.  Slippy is almost impossible.
2) Going through Zoness means Katt shows up in Sector Z.  That creates an extra person going after those missiles, which would cost you 11 points...and that level is already tough enough as is.

Getting one in Vector is easy...in fact I did it on v2.  You kill Star Wolf fast enough, there's your medal right there.[/quote]

1) Impossible? Not really. I did it on my last run.
2) That's if you go through Zoness. In a 100% run, sure, you'd always have to get "Mission Accomplished"... but you don't have to go to the hardest level available. You just need to end up going through Area 6 for the good ending.
3) Venom? Yep. I did it on my last run.

The only real hard part will be getting all the gold medals [i]while[/i] going fast.

I tried another redline run. It was going well at first.... I killed the Sector Y boss in less than four seconds, before his intro text had completely vanished. But then I screwed up Zoness, twice, and quit.

Also! I timed the end-of-level HIT counter... contrary to TSA's comments, it takes just as long no matter how many enemies you kill. So go wild! (I think getting a gold medal will cost a couple seconds, however.)

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-13 08:33:24 pm

Sleeping Terror

38:48!

I screwed up the escape at the very end and lost almost a minute. ;_;

Sir VG

2006-02-13 08:45:37 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Damn woman, you're kicking my ass. Stop that, you're hurting my pride. Cry

You are recording these, right?

StrangenessDSS

Edit history:

StrangenessDSS: 2006-02-15 02:05:08 am

2006-02-15 01:58:14 am

Sleeping Terror

Quote:

You are recording these, right?

Of course.

I tried another redline run today... got the same time. No deaths, just a lot of slow boss fights. Sigh.

I've also tried beating TSA's run, using the same route. After a couple attempts where I failed Sector X (I hate that warp), I made it through with no wings and no shields. I was 2 seconds ahead going into Bolse, 20 seconds ahead taking down the shield... and then having only a single laser really started hurting my time. Ended up a couple minutes slower, but I know I can beat his run if I keep trying.

Then I made an attempt at a 100%! I haven't timed things yet, but I'm guessing the ideal route is Corneria - Meteo - Fortuna - Solar - Macbeth - Area 6 - Venom. I finished at 35:47... except it wasn't quite a 100%, 'cause I had only 146 HITs in Corneria, and I accidentally shot down Falco in Solar. But most levels had a pretty comfortable buffer, so I could do more boosting and still get gold.

My arm hurts now. Too much button mashing.

[quote]You are recording these, right?[/quote]
Of course.

I tried another redline run today... got the same time. No deaths, just a lot of slow boss fights. Sigh.

I've also tried beating TSA's run, using the same route. After a couple attempts where I failed Sector X (I hate that warp), I made it through with no wings and no shields. I was 2 seconds ahead going into Bolse, 20 seconds ahead taking down the shield... and then having only a single laser really started hurting my time. Ended up a couple minutes slower, but I know I can beat his run if I keep trying.

Then I made an attempt at a 100%! I haven't timed things yet, but I'm guessing the ideal route is Corneria - Meteo - Fortuna - Solar - Macbeth - Area 6 - Venom. I finished at 35:47... except it wasn't quite a 100%, 'cause I had only 146 HITs in Corneria, and I accidentally shot down Falco in Solar. But most levels had a pretty comfortable buffer, so I could do more boosting and still get gold.

My arm hurts now. Too much button mashing.

Asteron

2006-02-15 02:56:14 am

Quote:

Personally, I could see 4 styles of runs for SF64:

Normal "Optimal Route"
Normal "Red Line" Route
Expert "Optimal Route"
Expert "Red Line" Route

Personally I think there should only be

Normal "Optimal Route"
Expert "Red Line" Route

You should either go for pure speed, or speed given the highest difficulty. It's a shame venom 1 is not in their though. Venom 1 on expert is so fun.

Sir VG

2006-02-15 02:57:48 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Well, there is both a Normal and Expert "Optimal" mode up, so you'll have at least 3.

VorpalEdge

2006-02-15 09:00:23 pm

welcome to the machine

I would personally not even count 'red line' as a category (come on, it's increase in difficulty is LAUGHABLE.), but if you will do that, I'd use four categories. Normal, normal red, expert, expert red.

darkwasabi

Edit history:

darkwasabi: 2006-02-15 09:22:21 pm

2006-02-15 09:21:46 pm

King of hearts

Yeah, I think it being red is just a color for a different path, and doesn't have much to do with increased difficulty, even if it says so. The only hard stages are Area 6 and Venom, the rest are just easy.

Damn, now I want to play the game again but I don't have it anymore. Now I can only play it on an emulator using a PS2 or GameCube controller, they're just not right for it...

StrangenessDSS

2006-02-15 09:36:26 pm

Sleeping Terror

The red stages are all harder than their opposing blue stages (Sector Y > Meteo, Zoness > Sector X, etc). And the whole game is pretty easy.

The good thing about a redline run is that it's almost entirely different than a pure speed run. Yeah, it's not all that much harder, but it is a different set of levels that you wouldn't see otherwise.

Sir VG

2006-02-15 10:24:48 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

While some of the areas are not much harder (like Sector Y and Sector Z), Aquas can be hard if you're trying to do it fast. Worse than that, it's painful on the hand, which some other kickass runner can probably attest to. Area 6 is hard too, mainly because of the sheer number of enemies. It is the highest point count for a medal (300 if I remember right?), which should give you an idea.