Speedrun Leaderboards Discussion Topic (SRL)

kirkq

Edit history:

kirkq: 2013-08-15 08:02:48 am

kirkq: 2013-08-15 07:58:50 am

2013-08-15 07:57:34 am

Die Hard 2013.

"Times"

Lenophis, if you're so against me please answer each question yes or no. I'm trying to solicit feedback in a tangible form.

Rane: If your run is on twitch that's between you and them. I'm linking to a link of your twitch archive, which you practically knowingly created. What am I even circumventing? I'll link to whatever minimal reference of your video you want. If you want me to link to your website with your ads and your users hosted video, I really have no need to link directly to the video feed in all cases. The case law you're supplying can hardly be applied to this. If leaderboards were just a premium link to go through the twingalaxies site and pull times at all times we would have a problem.

ShadowWraith

Edit history:

ShadowWraith: 2013-08-15 07:59:42 am

2013-08-15 07:59:15 am

.

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

Say i do runs on twitch just to do the live feeds and never ever save a video but later upload high quality videos to my own server. And I bank off the ad revenue of the webpages people view to get my run. By linking to the run (download of it) people are thusly circumventing my ad revenue. Problem. I stated that this as a general statement. Circumventing a page was seen as enough course to engage legal action by NYTimes vs another paper. What would be the minimum here?

I'm not arguing against things. I just want to bring up the gray areas as reasons to step back and think if this is really a GOOD FREAKING idea. Would you want to be called up on b/c someone else linked a run that is hosted on a user's site (for instance old runs of Resident Evil that are/were on Zero's {a famous resident evil} website?

Case of Youtube/twitch, cool! User created site?.... ehhhhh problems.

Easy enough to just link to the page on your website that has the video player/download link, no?

[quote="RaneofSOTN"]
Say i do runs on twitch just to do the live feeds and never ever save a video but later upload high quality videos to my own server. And I bank off the ad revenue of the webpages people view to get my run. By linking to the run (download of it) people are thusly circumventing my ad revenue. Problem. I stated that this as a general statement. Circumventing a page was seen as enough course to engage legal action by NYTimes vs another paper. What would be the minimum here?

I'm not arguing against things. I just want to bring up the gray areas as reasons to step back and think if this is really a GOOD FREAKING idea. Would you want to be called up on b/c someone else linked a run that is hosted on a user's site (for instance old runs of Resident Evil that are/were on Zero's {a famous resident evil} website?

Case of Youtube/twitch, cool! User created site?.... ehhhhh problems.[/quote]

Easy enough to just link to the page on your website that has the video player/download link, no?

Lenophis

2013-08-15 08:00:29 am

0-10

Quit assuming everything is a personal attack. If a green name had said what I said, you would've just edited it in silence and moved on. Wink

zewing

2013-08-15 08:01:30 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

@blubber using turbo is TAS. Why would you put times that use turbo on an RTA leaderboard? They have a nico leaderboard to handle their turbo times.

RaneofSOTN

Edit history:

RaneofSOTN: 2013-08-15 08:05:39 am

RaneofSOTN: 2013-08-15 08:05:09 am

2013-08-15 08:01:49 am

I want off the ride....

Quote from ShadowWraith:

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

Say i do runs on twitch just to do the live feeds and never ever save a video but later upload high quality videos to my own server. And I bank off the ad revenue of the webpages people view to get my run. By linking to the run (download of it) people are thusly circumventing my ad revenue. Problem. I stated that this as a general statement. Circumventing a page was seen as enough course to engage legal action by NYTimes vs another paper. What would be the minimum here?

I'm not arguing against things. I just want to bring up the gray areas as reasons to step back and think if this is really a GOOD FREAKING idea. Would you want to be called up on b/c someone else linked a run that is hosted on a user's site (for instance old runs of Resident Evil that are/were on Zero's {a famous resident evil} website?

Case of Youtube/twitch, cool! User created site?.... ehhhhh problems.

Easy enough to just link to the page on your website that has the video player/download link, no?

If i put the link, but what if some 3rd party does that? Some guy who doesn't know I bank off the renevue for the pages to even host the run. THat run gets popular and I start losing money....
that person who linked the run (and didn't go to the page but the download directly)... is now responsible and put that off to you. only gray areas I am worried of, are the case of some person comes by drops a link in and later vanishes.

Just think if i ran some small website, didn't expect a huge increase in traffic and suddenly i dont have that revenue cause the run was directly linked instead of the page? Well I'm probably gonna do some internet trolling and see reprimand, or ask / etc.

Quote from Kirkq:

Rane: If your run is on twitch that's between you and them. I'm linking to a link of your twitch archive, which you practically knowingly created. What am I even circumventing? I'll link to whatever minimal reference of your video you want. If you want me to link to your website with your ads and your users hosted video, I really have no need to link directly to the video feed in all cases. The case law you're supplying can hardly be applied to this. If leaderboards were just a premium link to go through the twingalaxies site and pull times at all times we would have a problem.

I said i never saved that public display on twitch. It was just done there. Please read. (Guess what twitch doesn't save stuff by default, and at best its saved for what 1week 2weeks? and that isn't even guarenteed if i erased it).

[quote="ShadowWraith"][quote="RaneofSOTN"]
Say i do runs on twitch just to do the live feeds and never ever save a video but later upload high quality videos to my own server. And I bank off the ad revenue of the webpages people view to get my run. By linking to the run (download of it) people are thusly circumventing my ad revenue. Problem. I stated that this as a general statement. Circumventing a page was seen as enough course to engage legal action by NYTimes vs another paper. What would be the minimum here?

I'm not arguing against things. I just want to bring up the gray areas as reasons to step back and think if this is really a GOOD FREAKING idea. Would you want to be called up on b/c someone else linked a run that is hosted on a user's site (for instance old runs of Resident Evil that are/were on Zero's {a famous resident evil} website?

Case of Youtube/twitch, cool! User created site?.... ehhhhh problems.[/quote]

Easy enough to just link to the page on your website that has the video player/download link, no?
[/quote]
If i put the link, but what if some 3rd party does that? Some guy who doesn't know I bank off the renevue for the pages to even host the run. THat run gets popular and I start losing money....
that person who linked the run (and didn't go to the page but the download directly)... is now responsible and put that off to you. only gray areas I am worried of, are the case of some person comes by drops a link in and later vanishes.

Just think if i ran some small website, didn't expect a huge increase in traffic and suddenly i dont have that revenue cause the run was directly linked instead of the page? Well I'm probably gonna do some internet trolling and see reprimand, or ask / etc.

[quote="Kirkq"]Rane: If your run is on twitch that's between you and them.  I'm linking to a link of your twitch archive, which you practically knowingly created.  What am I even circumventing?  I'll link to whatever minimal reference of your video you want.  If you want me to link to your website with your ads and your users hosted video, I really have no need to link directly to the video feed in all cases.  The case law you're supplying can hardly be applied to this.  If leaderboards were just a premium link to go through the twingalaxies site and pull times at all times we would have a problem.[/quote]
I said i never saved that public display on twitch. It was just done there. Please read. (Guess what twitch doesn't save stuff by default, and at best its saved for what 1week 2weeks? and that isn't even guarenteed if i erased it).

LLCoolDave

2013-08-15 08:02:40 am

I'm not sure if kirkq or Cosmo ever replied to it, but I think linking to runs hosted on private servers should be offlimits without permission solely based on bandwidth considerations.

As for the linking question, I would consider an unlisted youtube video linked to from the SDA Forums game topic publicized. We have a high enough Page Rank to make it likely the relevant post will show up high on a naive google search for a run of the game.

ShadowWraith

2013-08-15 08:02:52 am

.

Lenophis: He's not viewing it as a personal attack, he's trying to direct you towards helping the discussion. Also, fwiw, SDA does have records. We do not track world records, this is true, but they are tracked internally as SDA records.

ShadowWraith

2013-08-15 08:07:47 am

.

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

If i put the link, but what if some 3rd party does that? Some guy who doesn't know I bank off the renevue for the pages to even host the run. THat run gets popular and I start losing money....
that person who linked the run (and didn't go to the page but the download directly)... is now responsible and put that off to you. only gray areas I am worried of, are the case of some person comes by drops a link in and later vanishes.

Just think if i ran some small website, didn't expect a huge increase in traffic and suddenly i dont have that revenue cause the run was directly linked instead of the page? Well I'm probably gonna do some internet trolling and see reprimand, or ask / etc.

Just ask the moderators to update the link for your run? Make sure you're diligent about adding your own runs to it, since there's a grace period for other people to do so? There's plenty of ways around this.

jet

2013-08-15 08:08:04 am

Quote from zewing:

@blubber using turbo is TAS. Why would you put times that use turbo on an RTA leaderboard? They have a nico leaderboard to handle their turbo times.

I just want to say that this shouldn't be the case for everything and it should be based on games/consoles (I'm not sure if the way you're saying this is just for YI or all games in general). There are games where everyone who runs it use Turbo (international versions of final fantasy, for example) and there is the TGFX16 which has Turbo buttons on the official controllers.

Svenne

2013-08-15 08:09:06 am

Smörgåsbord

Quote from kirkq:

If Leaderboards can "morally" do all these things, which I perceive are acceptable. You're effectively in my opinion just saying that we can't put information in a database that we are already tangentially linking to.

Grayer Questions:

Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/zelda2/

As the owner of that leaderboard I guess I have to say no. I mean you can link it as: "for more records, go to", but not take the times because you do not have the content of those players and I cannot give you the right to add their times without having you ask them first. Every single time has the approval from the runner, to be on my site.

When Menboo said no on being on my leaderboard, guess what, I respected his wishes. The Mario 3 RTA leaderboard by Walwconut did not. Menboo did a copyright claim to get the link of from wikipedia. So they forced the leaderboard to remove it. I am pretty sure if you can get wikipedia to remove a link, you could do that on your leaderboard aswell? Go to whatever company that you have your servers on and ask them to do the same.

http://smb3rta.wikia.com/wiki/Leaderboards?action=history

I still want a combined leaderboard, just have to be done right. If done right, even I would want my times on there believe it or not.

[quote="kirkq"]If Leaderboards can "morally" do all these things, which I perceive are acceptable.  You're effectively in my opinion just saying that we can't put information in a database that we are already tangentially linking to.

Grayer Questions:

Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/zelda2/
[/quote]

As the owner of that leaderboard I guess I have to say no. I mean you can link it as: "for more records, go to", but not take the times because you do not have the content of those players and I cannot give you the right to add their times without having you ask them first. Every single time has the approval from the runner, to be on my site.

When Menboo said no on being on my leaderboard, guess what, I respected his wishes. The Mario 3 RTA leaderboard by Walwconut did not. Menboo did a copyright claim to get the link of from wikipedia. So they forced the leaderboard to remove it. I am pretty sure if you can get wikipedia to remove a link, you could do that on your leaderboard aswell? Go to whatever company that you have your servers on and ask them to do the same.

http://smb3rta.wikia.com/wiki/Leaderboards?action=history

I still want a combined leaderboard, just have to be done right. If done right, even I would want my times on there believe it or not.

kirkq

2013-08-15 08:09:48 am

Die Hard 2013.

Rane: The "What if some guy steals my run and uploads it" argument always applies. There is literally no way to make the site to avoid that. Moderators will police it as best they can and that is all that can be expected. It's like when people upload pictures to wikipedia they don't have right to. How can moderators be expected to perfectly deal with that? Regarding the twitch archive, no one is downloading your twitch archive. They are linking to it. If it exists it's between you and twitch. If it doesn't exist it's no one's problem. Runs are removed if the video doesn't exist. This has been stated in multiple places.

LLCoolDave: Private servers is probably something we can work to not to link to. Defining private is a bit difficult though.

kirkq

Edit history:

kirkq: 2013-08-15 08:13:57 am

kirkq: 2013-08-15 08:13:33 am

2013-08-15 08:13:06 am

Die Hard 2013.

Regarding wikia.com, I was told that Menboo's issue was a Terms of Service violation, which has nothing to do with laws, precedent, or contacting ISPs. It's purely between wikia.com and the users. If that's not the case I'd be interested to see what the issue actually was.

If the argument is that someone is going to contact the ISP every time we do something someone doesn't like, then I can't do anything.

Piston

2013-08-15 08:14:00 am

Heh, amateurs...

Quote from kirkq:

Let me ask a string of questions related to the opt out issue. Really they are just yes or no questions in my opinion.

Separate from "being in a time table": (Imagine links at the top of the game page)

Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the SDA Knowledge Base for each game as a resource?
What if the SDA Knowledge Base for each game links to the SDA Records page, can we still link to it?
Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the SDA Records page as a resource?
Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the SDA forum game thread as a resource?
If the first post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?
If the tenth post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?
Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the Leaderboards forum game thread as a resource?
If the first post in these Leaderboards forum threads is about someone's run on youtube or SDA or twitch who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to moderate it out of existence?
If the tenth post in these Leaderboards forum threads is about someone's run on youtube or SDA or twitch who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to moderate it out of existence?

If Leaderboards can "morally" do all these things, which I perceive are acceptable. You're effectively in my opinion just saying that we can't put information in a database that we are already tangentially linking to.

Grayer Questions:

Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/zelda2/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://redcandle.us/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://redcandle.us/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link
Can Leaderboards forum threads link to these?
Can Leaderboards link to SDA forum game pages that link to these?

I believe if there is a Knowledge Base for a game, definitely link it. KB has the potential to be a fantastic resource to link especially with the more technical runs that we see. Despite some scowls at some out-dated KB articles, that falls to the runners. Its a community responsibility to update the KB in the case that a new guy or gal comes along and is curious about information on the game. The same statement goes for other game wikis that are independent of SDA's KB. If the community prefers their own database or wiki, link it. Linking the game SDA page, Knowledge Base, outside wiki, or broad information site (like a ZSR site) just provides a solid never ending cycle of information. Whether its opt-in, opt-out or anything else, definitely link all of these.

I'm not sure on the external leaderboards. Not familiar with these sites, or whether they have a solid contribution to an internal involvement of the community rather than a select few people. I imagine someone else could give a better insight there.

[quote="kirkq"]Let me ask a string of questions related to the opt out issue.  Really they are just yes or no questions in my opinion.

Separate from "being in a time table": (Imagine links at the top of the game page)

Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the SDA Knowledge Base for each game as a resource?  
What if the SDA Knowledge Base for each game links to the SDA Records page, can we still link to it? 
Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the SDA Records page as a resource?
Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the SDA forum game thread as a resource?
If the first post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?
If the tenth post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?
Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the Leaderboards forum game thread as a resource?
If the first post in these Leaderboards forum threads is about someone's run on youtube or SDA or twitch who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to moderate it out of existence?
If the tenth post in these Leaderboards forum threads is about someone's run on youtube or SDA or twitch who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to moderate it out of existence?

If Leaderboards can "morally" do all these things, which I perceive are acceptable.  You're effectively in my opinion just saying that we can't put information in a database that we are already tangentially linking to.

Grayer Questions:

Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://nintendo-records.com/zelda2/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://redcandle.us/
Can Leaderboards link to: http://redcandle.us/Zelda_II:_The_Adventure_of_Link
Can Leaderboards forum threads link to these?
Can Leaderboards link to SDA forum game pages that link to these?[/quote]

I believe if there is a Knowledge Base for a game, definitely link it. KB has the potential to be a fantastic resource to link especially with the more technical runs that we see. Despite some scowls at some out-dated KB articles, that falls to the runners. Its a community responsibility to update the KB in the case that a new guy or gal comes along and is curious about information on the game. The same statement goes for other game wikis that are independent of SDA's KB. If the community prefers their own database or wiki, link it. Linking the game SDA page, Knowledge Base, outside wiki, or broad information site (like a ZSR site) just provides a solid never ending cycle of information. Whether its opt-in, opt-out or anything else, definitely link all of these.

I'm not sure on the external leaderboards. Not familiar with these sites, or whether they have a solid contribution to an internal involvement of the community rather than a select few people. I imagine someone else could give a better insight there.

blubbler

2013-08-15 08:15:19 am

Quote from zewing:

@blubber using turbo is TAS. Why would you put times that use turbo on an RTA leaderboard? They have a nico leaderboard to handle their turbo times.

I think there is a pretty big difference between using save-states, frameadvance and memory watch and just using turbo. When a big part of the community uses turbo, it deserves some place on a leaderboard. Saying that there's a nico leaderboard sounds like fragmentation to me. I thought the purpose was to collect all (competitive) times and let the user decide what he considers legit via filters (and I think the default should be to unlist turbo times).

RaneofSOTN

2013-08-15 08:15:46 am

I want off the ride....

Quote from kirkq:

Rane: If it exists it's between you and twitch. If it doesn't exist it's no one's problem. Runs are removed if the video doesn't exist. This has been stated in multiple places.

But it exists on the internet still (on my own servers). Gray area. You guys say freely link. I say "ehhhhh". Only point i'm getting across is. You dont have anything listed in your plan to handle this. This is also un-nerving. I'm done with "The devil is in the details". Just please go out and read references. You are blanketing everything in your favor... and I'm merely pointing out the gray areas. Cover them all, and really see if its viable to allow a mass "data pull".

Quote from luigimeister:

Well technically speaking the video-game company owns the footage (especially if the content creators aren't commenting over it) and the content creators shouldn't be able to monetize it in the first place. Luckily for lpers, speedrunners and the like, video-game companies ignore it for the most part. It's not really the best example of monetized/user-created content. So if anyone can get legally angry it would have to be the video-game company, and I doubt they really care if someone is spreading around game footage of their games that they're fine with being on the internet. In short, I don't really see how this is a morally grey issue at all. Most speedrunners don't own anything about a video except the possible commentary.

sorry I missed this. But the thing is. The video game company has the rights to the game stuff/etc. But the performance of the WR in question is my performance. If i soo choose to not allow people to link to it, or etc. That is my deal. That "run" is my content. I have no right against anyone else's run to say what to do with it. I have no rights to all runs of game XXXX. But if that run is mine. Where-in I performed those actions, it is my own performance. This is even the case for people doing cover songs. They can be sued /etc for singing a song, but that performance was theirs and is usually the basis in which they make money (which often causes the case).

But either way, our runs are moving into entertainment. People watch them and gain an entertainment value out of it. Thus my content is the run, the game maker's content is the game. But I have added significant value to that content and made it "towards more of my own." Thus the run (and only that run) applys to be my own content.... Gray issue. Problems.

[quote="kirkq"]Rane: If it exists it's between you and twitch.  If it doesn't exist it's no one's problem.  Runs are removed if the video doesn't exist.  This has been stated in multiple places.[/quote]
But it exists on the internet still (on my own servers). Gray area. You guys say freely link. I say "ehhhhh". Only point i'm getting across is. You dont have anything listed in your plan to handle this. This is also un-nerving. I'm done with "The devil is in the details". Just please go out and read references. You are blanketing everything in your favor... and I'm merely pointing out the gray areas. Cover them all, and really see if its viable to allow a mass "data pull".

[quote="luigimeister"]Well technically speaking the video-game company owns the footage (especially if the content creators aren't commenting over it) and the content creators shouldn't be able to monetize it in the first place. Luckily for lpers, speedrunners and the like, video-game companies ignore it for the most part. It's not really the best example of monetized/user-created content. So if anyone can get legally angry it would have to be the video-game company, and I doubt they really care if someone is spreading around game footage of their games that they're fine with being on the internet. In short, I don't really see how this is a morally grey issue at all. Most speedrunners don't own anything about a video except the possible commentary. [/quote]
sorry I missed this. But the thing is. The video game company has the rights to the game stuff/etc. But the performance of the WR in question is my performance. If i soo choose to not allow people to link to it, or etc. That is my deal. That "run" is my content. I have no right against anyone else's run to say what to do with it. I have no rights to all runs of game XXXX. But if that run is mine. Where-in I performed those actions, it is my own performance. This is even the case for people doing cover songs. They can be sued /etc for singing a song, but that performance was theirs and is usually the basis in which they make money (which often causes the case).

But either way, our runs are moving into entertainment. People watch them and gain an entertainment value out of it. Thus my content is the run, the game maker's content is the game. But I have added significant value to that content and made it "towards more of my own." Thus the run (and only that run) applys to be my own content.... Gray issue. Problems.

kirkq

Edit history:

kirkq: 2013-08-15 08:26:58 am

kirkq: 2013-08-15 08:24:13 am

kirkq: 2013-08-15 08:17:47 am

2013-08-15 08:17:29 am

Die Hard 2013.

Rane, I've read resources. I try to educate myself on this. Link me relevant resources if you have them.

Saying "There is a gray area case that could possibly apply even though it's fundamentally different and it probably doesn't" again stops me from doing anything. If you went and read case law and said "something in here is related to what we are doing", you literally could not create a website. It's about the prior case law and the extent of it.

zewing

2013-08-15 08:24:14 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

I understand how the entire J community uses turbo for their rpg's but I know of mega man runners that use turbo and I'm sure as hell not gonna accept their times being put in same group as mine. Turbo graf is an acception I understand but seriously why are u trying to argue for turbo? Don't you think ur wasting ur time and my time?

Theworm826

2013-08-15 08:27:08 am

Quote from blubbler:

Quote from zewing:

@blubber using turbo is TAS. Why would you put times that use turbo on an RTA leaderboard? They have a nico leaderboard to handle their turbo times.

I think there is a pretty big difference between using save-states, frameadvance and memory watch and just using turbo. When a big part of the community uses turbo, it deserves some place on a leaderboard. Saying that there's a nico leaderboard sounds like fragmentation to me. I thought the purpose was to collect all (competitive) times and let the user decide what he considers legit via filters (and I think the default should be to unlist turbo times).

I know this isn't just a Yoshi's Island issue, but I'd be interested in what other YI runners have to say about this.

Zewing, do you believe Kaede's run is the record or not because of turbo?

I think turbo with the JP community should be up to each game's community to decide how they want to handle it. I agree with you on your megaman sentiment though, I generally don't like turbo, but it does rule out an entire community of runners so it's worth addressing.

[quote="blubbler"][quote="zewing"]@blubber using turbo is TAS.  Why would you put times that use turbo on an RTA leaderboard?  They have a nico leaderboard to handle their turbo times.[/quote]
I think there is a pretty big difference between using save-states, frameadvance and memory watch and just using turbo. When a big part of the community uses turbo, it deserves some place on a leaderboard. Saying that there's a nico leaderboard sounds like fragmentation to me. I thought the purpose was to collect all (competitive) times and let the user decide what he considers legit via filters (and I think the default should be to unlist turbo times).[/quote]

I know this isn't just a Yoshi's Island issue, but I'd be interested in what other YI runners have to say about this.

Zewing, do you believe Kaede's run is the record or not because of turbo?

I think turbo with the JP community should be up to each game's community to decide how they want to handle it. I agree with you on your megaman sentiment though, I generally don't like turbo, but it does rule out an entire community of runners so it's worth addressing.

RaneofSOTN

2013-08-15 08:29:06 am

I want off the ride....

Quote from kirkq:

Rane, I've read resources. I try to educate myself on this. Link me relevant resources if you have them.

my resources are at home. I'll link you either during lunch or after work. I am very sorry. I'm being a horrible worker as I am trying to handle things that dont require total focus. but there are some points to the case I mentioned earlier. sorry for any delay in this.

zewing

2013-08-15 08:29:21 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

My understanding is turbo would be banned from this leaderboard and personally I won't accept a time better than me if it uses any type of TAS tool regardless on how much better it is.

LLCoolDave

2013-08-15 08:29:27 am

Quote from zewing:

Turbo graf is an acception I understand but seriously why are u trying to argue for turbo? Don't you think ur wasting ur time and my time?

You're the one wasting everyone's time by trying to be the sole person to dictate the will of a community. If there is a competitive scene for turbo fire megaman then I don't see how an encompasing leaderboard could try to ignore it. The leaderboard isn't trying to instill value into individual categories, it is there to state the facts about people's performance in all competed categories.

Lenophis

2013-08-15 08:29:49 am

0-10

Quote from ShadowWraith:

Lenophis: He's not viewing it as a personal attack

Quote from kirkq:

Lenophis, if you're so against me

Are you sure about that, Shadow?

I will say this, I like the idea behind the leaderboard. However, I very much don't like the implementation approach being taken here. The strong-arm bully tactics are being called out, and instead of backing off, you're digging your feet in the sand further, saying "don't give a shit, deal with it." Guess what, you will meet resistance when you do that. The world does not revolve around you guys.

Quote:

If the first post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?
If the tenth post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?

If you guys give a damn at all about respecting the wishes of others, you can bet the answer will be yes, that is, not to link.

Quote:

Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the Leaderboards forum game thread as a resource?

...You want to ask us if the leaderboard can link to the leaderboard...?

If this thread hasn't completely degenerated when I return in 14 hours, I can answer more.

[quote="ShadowWraith"]Lenophis: He's not viewing it as a personal attack[/quote]
[quote="kirkq"]Lenophis, if you're so against me[/quote]
Are you sure about that, Shadow?

I will say this, I like the idea behind the leaderboard. However, I very much don't like the implementation approach being taken here. The strong-arm bully tactics are being called out, and instead of backing off, you're digging your feet in the sand further, saying "don't give a shit, deal with it." Guess what, you will meet resistance when you do that. The world does not revolve around you guys.

[quote]If the first post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?
If the tenth post in these SDA forum game threads is about someone who doesn't want their run up, do you want us to not link to it?[/quote]
If you guys give a damn at all about respecting the wishes of others, you can bet the answer will be yes, that is, not to link.

[quote]Can Leaderboards Game Pages link to the Leaderboards forum game thread as a resource?[/quote]
...You want to ask us if the leaderboard can link to the leaderboard...?

If this thread hasn't completely degenerated when I return in 14 hours, I can answer more.

Samura1man

2013-08-15 08:30:23 am

This is hot topic, hi

zewing

2013-08-15 08:30:29 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

hi

jet

2013-08-15 08:35:32 am

I'm not trying to argue for turbo, but the way you've worded posts made it sound like you want runs that use turbo in general off the leaderboards and in their own seperate one, which kind of defeats the purpose of the leaderboards, really.

Categories being made and filters would help separate runs but keep them on the same leaderboard instead of having information fragmented. It's just sorting issues really.