Speedruns on TV

2005-07-26 07:07:23 am

PwNzRd!

If anyone here actually watches G4TV, then you would know that they would interrupt the speed run like 600 times to jam some commercials or commentary from crappy hosts or something in there. Grin

transience

2005-07-26 11:36:03 am

trust the fungus

heh, I'm sure the people who commentate know enough to add anything useful to the conversation.

"he doesn't stop pressing the b button to run!"

Yoshi348

2005-07-26 06:20:21 pm

dinosaur from the past

They'd say that on a Playstation game, too.

bushwacker

2005-07-28 04:07:40 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I just watched the 19:47 Mario 64 on G4... What a goddamn travesty.

First, they shoved it in a corner so it was two inches high while Hello Kitty or something was playing in the background.

Second, when they came back from commercials, they skipped ahead by a minute.

Third, they started the movie (and thus the timer) when Mario was in the castle, then to make up for the 10+ second deficit, they left the timer running, against all logic, into the ending cutscene.

They need to show a speedrun right or not show it all, imo.

Radix

2005-07-28 04:16:13 am

I'm addicted to games

Yep, I saw it... and I told Eddie Taylor. We'll see what his reaction is.

Cygnus

Edit history:

Cygnus: 2005-07-28 04:30:08 am

2005-07-28 04:29:05 am

Ben Goldberg

I want to know who would want to watch some cinema over a speed run, really. I think that the show would get much better ratings if they showed the speedrun the whole time. Especially a speedrun as entertaining as SM64.

soteos

2005-07-28 05:40:57 am

I don't recall seeing the name Eddie Taylor (or any name) being credited. Hmm maybe there is an issue with copyright.

Pweisger

2005-07-28 07:25:26 am

PwNzRd!

Told ya... those damn G4 bastards; don't know what's good for them...

Morfans

2005-07-28 10:30:48 am

Hell is where the heart is.

Back to copyright and that baseball thing

Quote:

So why should a game company own the copyright on every conceivable image sequence from a game they created.

Well, I'm no copyright lawyer (thank god) but...

Because they own the name, characters and likenesses thereof.

If you make a "film" (speedrun) starring Mario and all the characters in the Mario universe and you have not licensed them from Nintendo then you are breaching their copyright.

The characters that appear in speedruns are totally and utterly THEIR property and we are using them without permission.

Of course, it's not worth the time, effort and publicity for them to do anything about it.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2005-07-28 04:07:33 pm

2005-07-28 04:07:17 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Lucky you in the USA then. You can always cry "fair use" and display what you want.

On the german wikipedia every screenshot of a videogame gets removed as soon as a mod gets wind of it.

All legal crap aside, showing off with the work of the runners here and not crediting them, not even mentioning them while making money (by stuffing it with commercials) is immoral at least, a subtitle or a short announcement surely wouldn't hurt.

Morfans

2005-07-28 04:18:53 pm

Hell is where the heart is.

Oh absolutely. No argument there. Even just a 5 second credit screen "Running (or Playing) By Xxxxx" would be good manners.

A half hour profile documentary before AND after with interviews, opinions and full sexual history would be better but I guess that's a bit much to ask.

Radix

2005-07-28 05:04:52 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

Because they own the name, characters and likenesses thereof.

If you make a "film" (speedrun) starring Mario and all the characters in the Mario universe and you have not licensed them from Nintendo then you are breaching their copyright.

You're thinking of trademarks.

TSA

Edit history:

TSA: 2005-07-28 05:11:31 pm

2005-07-28 05:10:11 pm

Retired

Copyright is protection of an "expression" of an idea. You can make a game about a hero saving a princess from an evil villian, you just can't make a game about Link saving Zelda from Ganondorf or Mario saving Peach from Bowser...as Radix said, those characters are trademarks. Trademarks apply to slogans, icons or other visual/textual properties associated with intellectual property own by some entity. Copyright is for expression of ideas. Patents are for inventions.

Just to be clear - the name Zelda isn't illegal to use in a game for a character so long as it isn't a female princess with pointy ears with a triangle mark on her right hand and wears royal clothing and has blonde hair...etc...etc...you know, the whole likeness issue. Nor could you make a character who looks EXACTLY like Zelda, but change the name.

Unless it's parody.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2005-07-28 05:54:33 pm

2005-07-28 05:54:17 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Quote:

A half hour profile documentary before AND after with interviews, opinions and full sexual history would be better but I guess that's a bit much to ask.

I curious about that sexual history part.

Elaborate please. Grin

Morfans

2005-07-28 06:01:56 pm

Hell is where the heart is.

So I was 100% correct!

Quote:

Well, I'm no copyright lawyer

Told you. :-)

Even so...

Quote:

You can make a game about a hero saving a princess from an evil villian, you just can't make a game about Link saving Zelda from Ganondorf or Mario saving Peach from Bowser...

True, but irrelevant. It's a different set of circumstances. We use their game engine and their game world and their characters inside a game they developed. All we do is play the game (very, very fast). There's nothing there that's ours.

I don't have a game anywhere near me to check, but surely there's a whole load of legal splurge inside the game manual that clarifies what you may and may not do with the game you have purchased. "No reselling, hiring, lending or recording yourself completing it very quickly and showing your mates" or something?

Radix

2005-07-28 06:20:59 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

I don't have a game anywhere near me to check, but surely there's a whole load of legal splurge inside the game manual that clarifies what you may and may not do with the game you have purchased. "No reselling, hiring, lending or recording yourself completing it very quickly and showing your mates" or something?

A game manual is not a legal document and game companies don't write or enforce laws. Just because nintendo says you can't make backup copies of games doesn't make it true.

Anyway remember the quake map scam of 1997? Some "companies" took a lot of user-made quake maps that were released on the internet and put them on CD (bsp files only, no txt files) and sold them. When word got out, all hell broke lose. The next generation of maps all had "screw you actura" text in them or (C) notices in the map.

Am I going to have to brand videos with speeddemoarchive.com - <runner's name> covering 25% of the video to prevent this bullshit?

Meanwhile, those maps were all made with quake's textures. Nobody had gotten around to making a total conversion or even just including all their own textures yet. Those textures are (C) id Software, as is the game engine. Does id own every single map made for quake using their textures? No freaking way! That's why the map outrage occured.

And that's why the speed run outrage will occur.

[quote]I don't have a game anywhere near me to check, but surely there's a whole load of legal splurge inside the game manual that clarifies what you may and may not do with the game you have purchased. "No reselling, hiring, lending or recording yourself completing it very quickly and showing your mates" or something?
[/quote]

A game manual is not a legal document and game companies don't write or enforce laws. Just because nintendo says you can't make backup copies of games doesn't make it true.

Anyway remember the quake map scam of 1997? Some "companies" took a lot of user-made quake maps that were released on the internet and put them on CD (bsp files only, no txt files) and sold them. When word got out, all hell broke lose. The next generation of maps all had "screw you actura" text in them or (C) notices in the map.

Am I going to have to brand videos with speeddemoarchive.com - <runner's name> covering 25% of the video to prevent this bullshit?

Meanwhile, those maps were all made with quake's textures. Nobody had gotten around to making a total conversion or even just including all their own textures yet. Those textures are (C) id Software, as is the game engine. Does id own every single map made for quake using their textures? No freaking way! That's why the map outrage occured.

And that's why the speed run outrage will occur.

Morfans

2005-07-28 06:42:20 pm

Hell is where the heart is.

Quote:

Am I going to have to brand videos with speeddemoarchive.com - <runner's name> covering 25% of the video to prevent this bullshit?

If you did that then they would just not show them. Which is maybe a better thing anyway.

Hopefully this can all be solved amicably. Time will tell. But mixing good will, honesty, property, ego and profit is never going to be a happy mix.

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2005-07-28 10:07:51 pm

2005-07-28 10:07:35 pm

I'm addicted to games

Even if it does turn out that we're powerless, G4 is still being just damn rude.

But at least there's some comfort in it ... if someone sees it and it piques their interest enough, but they didn't see any info (obviously) then go to google and type in "mario 64 speed run" ... Mario64.html is the first result. Tongue

soteos

2005-07-28 11:55:42 pm

Actually the name idea wouldn't be a bad idea, if you put the runner's name and website or whatever in a corner of the video screen.
Of course, I don't know what problems that entails, or how much effort is required to brand the runs.

transience

2005-07-29 01:30:01 am

trust the fungus

even if you could just do it for like ten seconds in the middle of a run, at least then people would see it and know where it came from.

of course, the effort involved, particularly with older runs, is probably pretty large.

TSA

2005-07-29 01:37:28 am

Retired

Well, go get the Mario and Zelda NES vids, they went to TG. I don't know HOW G4 got the vids without being told who they were by.

It doesn't matter, Cinematech is a pathetic excuse for a show and I'd rather not have my work associated with it. They want to do a Speed Runs feature, then they can do that if they credit something like this site, like EGM at least did for the runs they took in their article.

trihex

2005-07-30 05:15:34 pm

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

I recently got G4 at my dad's house. And though everyone seems to be bitching at them (I agree, what they're doing is somewhat selffish), does anyone know the title of the show whenever they play the speedruns? Is it called like "Speedrun cinema" or whatever? I was hoping to watch the next airing.

bushwacker

2005-07-30 07:41:27 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

"cinematech"

trihex

2005-07-31 11:40:58 pm

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

I just saw a LoZ speed-run that aired on G4. Man, that stuff is retarded. Why would you use that dumb TV border? God, that's like using the wooden border on a GB Player! And then they minimize the main attraction and show this other crap that has nothing to do with it. Honestly, I was severly dissaponted and confused at what G4 is trying to air during "Cinematch."

Yoshi348

2005-08-01 01:22:24 am

dinosaur from the past

Earlier in the topic it was stated that it's a show about cutscenes. Just showing... cutscenes. Yep, these folks know what gamers care about alright.