Speedrunner Roundtable July 10 at 9 PM EDT [locked]

2013-07-09 10:28:43 am

HELLO!

The issue being that we're not sure if the GDQs are social cons or srs bsns, so we're trying to make them both, and the two conflict.

If we want the GDQs to be social cons, then playing little league and making sure as many people as possible get time on the field is the way to go.

If we want to maximize the GDQs utility as a successful charity event (which actually does feed back into helping this community thrive *between* marathons), then we have to make choices based on popularity of the games and their ability to keep the stream lively and raise money.

Now, these two goals aren't in total conflict. the GDQs can't be *all* business or they'd get dull. We have to take chances, and we do take chances, as Mike has repeatedly pointed out with games like Starcraft. We're giving EVO another chance when it apparently didn't do so hot last time.

But it just isn't sustainable for people to use running a game as justification to go to a GDQ, if the reason people are wanting to go to one is to get together as a community.

I think the *answer* is to do more social gatherings. Flicky made one happen in his area. We can do more. I think non-SDA gatherings & conventions would be decent hubs for that sort of thing, in addition to SDA-specific things that are planned and executed from scratch just to get people together.

The issue being that we're not sure if the GDQs are social cons or srs bsns, so we're trying to make them both, and the two conflict.

If we want the GDQs to be social cons, then playing little league and making sure as many people as possible get time on the field is the way to go.

If we want to maximize the GDQs utility as a successful charity event (which actually does feed back into helping this community thrive *between* marathons), then we have to make choices based on popularity of the games and their ability to keep the stream lively and raise money.

Now, these two goals aren't in total conflict.  the GDQs can't be *all* business or they'd get dull.  We have to take chances, and we do take chances, as Mike has repeatedly pointed out with games like Starcraft.  We're giving EVO another chance when it apparently didn't do so hot last time.

But it just isn't sustainable for people to use running a game as justification to go to a GDQ, if the reason people are wanting to go to one is to get together as a community.

I think the *answer* is to do more social gatherings. Flicky made one happen in his area.  We can do more.  I think non-SDA gatherings & conventions would be decent hubs for that sort of thing, in addition to SDA-specific things that are planned and executed from scratch just to get people together.

zewing

2013-07-09 10:36:26 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

As for these marathons to get people to go to AGDQ I think these funds should only go to people who are either running games or helping with tech support. Why give somone money to loathe around when a participant is in need of the funding? Also in regardless to whether a person attends a marathon because they have a game to run or not....so what. Would you spend (in some cases) > $500 just to hang out with people when you could be using that money to go towards paying off loans or trying to better ur own situation? I understand this but as a speedrunner who only knows how to speedrun and nothing about tech if my games doesn't get in then I'm just gonna watch marathon at home. Nothing wrong with that.

RaneofSOTN

2013-07-09 11:54:48 am

I want off the ride....

I think this might be a little past the point of saying anything but I know Lenophis brought up my name as someone who went to a 'GDQ without a game and stated so publicly.

I want to state the fact that the majority of the reasons of my own going are rooted in having gone to the original CGDQ. Thats where I fell in love with the community and the idea of going to a place where people didn't judge, and it was nice to just talk, chill, and hang out. Basically what streaming was before streaming really got big.

As a fact of myself, I spend more time watching people play games than I do actually playing them. As noted by my ever-growing backlog and the fact that I have soo much to play, or that I haven't taken FF4 back from Obda. I just am not active as much as I used to be and that has to be a downer for some people but its just the fact.

I'm also in the same boat as sir Puwexil, most of what I run are jRPGs and I hold no notion of ever having another game at a 'GDQ. Especially not after the last BoI incident where apparently there was backlash over the dumbest of things but thats another matter and should be left out of it.

I will say that going to a 'GDQ is practically a life-changer. There is a reason we did another one, and another one, and another one. They are a great time and while the cost to hang out with people is really high, its one of those... "But i can hang out with everyone.." and thats kinda the idea. You can post out hang outs and stuff but its really these big events where you know you'll be able to hang out with the Romscoot, make idle threats of taking back the FF4 record from Obda, joke around with KeeFry and soo much more. Hang outs are great but they can be limited based on who can come. 'CGDQ just lifts that barrier and lets people really meet up.

If you want to help out, you will help out.

I travel co-ordinated for two years, and busted my balls until Valiuse came by. But at the end of the day, its all about the fact that I helped people get the marathon to enjoy it and get home safe. Even if I wasn't doing it all, there was that sense of relief that there was someone THERE to be THERE for them. If I didn't do that, I doubt people could have as much of a comforting mind in visiting. Just ask anyone who goes to 'GDQ. The most nerve racking part is getting there and getting home. and maybe when your running your game (on stream or off stream)

I think this might be a little past the point of saying anything but I know Lenophis brought up my name as someone who went to a 'GDQ without a game and stated so publicly.

I want to state the fact that the majority of the reasons of my own going are rooted in having gone to the original CGDQ. Thats where I fell in love with the community and the idea of going to a place where people didn't judge, and it was nice to just talk, chill, and hang out. Basically what streaming was before streaming really got big.

As a fact of myself, I spend more time watching people play games than I do actually playing them. As noted by my ever-growing backlog and the fact that I have soo much to play, or that I haven't taken FF4 back from Obda. I just am not active as much as I used to be and that has to be a downer for some people but its just the fact.

I'm also in the same boat as sir Puwexil, most of what I run are jRPGs and I hold no notion of ever having another game at a 'GDQ. Especially not after the last BoI incident where apparently there was backlash over the dumbest of things but thats another matter and should be left out of it.

I will say that going to a 'GDQ is practically a life-changer. There is a reason we did another one, and another one, and another one. They are a great time and while the cost to hang out with people is really high, its one of those... "But i can hang out with everyone.." and thats kinda the idea. You can post out hang outs and stuff but its really these big events where you know you'll be able to hang out with the Romscoot, make idle threats of taking back the FF4 record from Obda, joke around with KeeFry and soo much more. Hang outs are great but they can be limited based on who can come. 'CGDQ just lifts that barrier and lets people really meet up.

If you want to help out, you will help out.

I travel co-ordinated for two years, and busted my balls until Valiuse came by. But at the end of the day, its all about the fact that I helped people get the marathon to enjoy it and get home safe. Even if I wasn't doing it all, there was that sense of relief that there was someone THERE to be THERE for them. If I didn't do that, I doubt people could have as much of a comforting mind in visiting. Just ask anyone who goes to 'GDQ. The most nerve racking part is getting there and getting home. and maybe when your running your game (on stream or off stream)

RoboSparkle

2013-07-09 12:05:44 pm

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Quote from presjpolk:

I think the *answer* is to do more social gatherings. Flicky made one happen in his area. We can do more. I think non-SDA gatherings & conventions would be decent hubs for that sort of thing, in addition to SDA-specific things that are planned and executed from scratch just to get people together.

Flicky has made multiple of these happen and they were awesome. It's how we discovered that we live like an hour apart from each other and it rocks. There should be more gatherings that aren't marathons, but that's probably not a roundtable discussion unless SDA is going to start hosting non-marathon conventions or something.

Actually (this post is turning into a stream of consciousness) I AM going to ask that question: Can / Will SDA host events that aren't marathons? For the sole purpose of meeting with like-minded individuals and having a brilliant time? I'm well aware that we have the 'GDQs for that but it's obvious from this thread that there are people who are less inclined to do that sort of thing without having a game to run on stream.

I wasn't so worried about running a game at AGDQ because of my off-stream experiences at ESA gave me an idea of how awesome it would be; as such I would have gone to AGDQ without a game (as long as my finances hold up I'll be going to AGDQ 14 with or without a game) because of everything else they represent and offer. But Flicky's meetups have proven that we could just, for example, go to London, wander about, eat a meal together, then go to the arcade and generally have an awesome time. We didn't even need booze for that!

[quote="presjpolk"]I think the *answer* is to do more social gatherings. Flicky made one happen in his area.  We can do more.  I think non-SDA gatherings & conventions would be decent hubs for that sort of thing, in addition to SDA-specific things that are planned and executed from scratch just to get people together.[/quote]

Flicky has made multiple of these happen and they were awesome.  It's how we discovered that we live like an hour apart from each other and it rocks.  There should be more gatherings that aren't marathons, but that's probably not a roundtable discussion unless SDA is going to start hosting non-marathon conventions or something.

Actually (this post is turning into a stream of consciousness) I AM going to ask that question:  Can / Will SDA host events that aren't marathons?  For the sole purpose of meeting with like-minded individuals and having a brilliant time?  I'm well aware that we have the 'GDQs for that but it's obvious from this thread that there are people who are less inclined to do that sort of thing without having a game to run on stream.

I wasn't so worried about running a game at AGDQ because of my off-stream experiences at ESA gave me an idea of how awesome it would be; as such I would have gone to AGDQ without a game (as long as my finances hold up I'll be going to AGDQ 14 with or without a game) because of everything else they represent and offer.  But Flicky's meetups have proven that we could just, for example, go to London, wander about, eat a meal together, then go to the arcade and generally have an awesome time.  We didn't even need booze for that!

Kiyura

2013-07-09 12:08:46 pm

Wiiaboo

What exactly is it that's stopping anyone from proposing and organizing a meetup? Why does that need to be pegged on the staff? We're a community here, and that's not something that needs any kind of endorsement.

presjpolk

2013-07-09 12:09:30 pm

HELLO!

Quote from Kiyura:

What exactly is it that's stopping anyone from proposing and organizing a meetup? Why does that need to be pegged on the staff? We're a community here, and that's not something that needs any kind of endorsement.

Exactly.

Withhelde

2013-07-09 12:10:03 pm

Thinker & Dreamer

Because they turn out to be a pain in the ass to organize for the most part and want to push that responsibility to someone else.

UraniumAnchor

2013-07-09 12:10:16 pm

Not a walrus

Right now I think that's a bit out of scope for the site, yeah. Nobody's going to stop you from using the forums to organize it, of course, but no need to make it official or anything.

RoboSparkle

2013-07-09 12:12:45 pm

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Quote from Kiyura:

What exactly is it that's stopping anyone from proposing and organizing a meetup? Why does that need to be pegged on the staff? We're a community here, and that's not something that needs any kind of endorsement.

Well, nothing has stopped people from doing it. It's been done, multiple times. ESA is arguably a massive example of the community using these forums to organise a big event. I just wanted to ask whether SDA would do that. But thanks for answering UA.

dballin

Edit history:

dballin: 2013-07-09 03:53:05 pm

dballin: 2013-07-09 03:46:44 pm

dballin: 2013-07-09 03:43:34 pm

2013-07-09 03:17:06 pm

Balls jerky

Quote from Cool Matty:

Poxnor: I guess what I find ridiculous is that somehow running a game makes those considerations disappear? Suddenly, if you're running game, now you have time to go, now you can afford it? If you were going just to run the game, there'd be no reason to stay the rest of the marathon (after all, you'd still have to pay for the other nights!).

It seems to me that you're using your run as a justification in the most negative connotation possible: an excuse. Tongue

I believe people can (and for the most part, do) help in way more ways than just running games, and so the justification should really be "I want to go help them run this marathon". A run shouldn't be the overwhelming qualifier for that. If you don't think anything else is as important as your run of the game... yeesh.

With the current prevalence of pre-marathon fund raising marathons being able to afford it is certainly a lot easier if you run games. I imagine I'd have a really hard time raising money if I just streamed me modding chat or entering donations into the tracker. That's really all I've done for marathons so far. And doing the first action doesn't make people like you. Tongue

Separate, but equal. But not really. ^_^

late edit: that being said, I had a fucking blast at all 3 AGDQs whether I randomly drove 6 hours to crash the first one, stayed the entire time at the second, or showed up for the tail end this past year. It's been a great time hanging out with all the super cool peeps that go to these things and I'm a little sad that there's this much division over what I thought was supposed to be a really good time for all involved.

[quote="Cool Matty"]Poxnor: I guess what I find ridiculous is that somehow running a game makes those considerations disappear? Suddenly, if you're running game, now you have time to go, now you can afford it? If you were going just to run the game, there'd be no reason to stay the rest of the marathon (after all, you'd still have to pay for the other nights!).

It seems to me that you're using your run as a justification in the most negative connotation possible: an excuse. :P

I believe people can (and for the most part, do) help in way more ways than just running games, and so the justification should really be "I want to go help them run this marathon". A run shouldn't be the overwhelming qualifier for that. If you don't think anything else is as important as your run of the game... yeesh.[/quote]
With the current prevalence of pre-marathon fund raising marathons being able to afford it is certainly a lot easier if you run games. I imagine I'd have a really hard time raising money if I just streamed me modding chat or entering donations into the tracker. That's really all I've done for marathons so far. And doing the first action doesn't make people like you. :P Separate, but equal. But not really. ^_^

late edit: that being said, I had a fucking blast at all 3 AGDQs whether I randomly drove 6 hours to crash the first one, stayed the entire time at the second, or showed up for the tail end this past year. It's been a great time hanging out with all the super cool peeps that go to these things and I'm a little sad that there's this much division over what I thought was supposed to be a really good time for all involved.

Rakuen

2013-07-09 06:46:22 pm

Weegee Time

Quote from UraniumAnchor:

Right now I think that's a bit out of scope for the site, yeah. Nobody's going to stop you from using the forums to organize it, of course, but no need to make it official or anything.

Is it possible a meetups forum could be added with enough demand, like was done with the non-SDA marathons? I think that would be enough to both make people aware and to get the ball rolling on more events.

Poxnor

2013-07-09 06:53:42 pm

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Rakuen:

Is it possible a meetups forum could be added with enough demand, like was done with the non-SDA marathons? I think that would be enough to both make people aware and to get the ball rolling on more events.

What would make that even better (here I go with my ideas again Wink

) is if there were some easy way to keep a list of in which city, province/state/etc., and country each runner who wanted to participate lives. Then, you could know who lived around you; and, even better, if work or whatever led you to travel, you'd know if there is anyone to meet up with wherever you're going.

PJ

2013-07-09 06:56:57 pm

Is PJ

Quote from Poxnor:

Quote from Rakuen:

Is it possible a meetups forum could be added with enough demand, like was done with the non-SDA marathons? I think that would be enough to both make people aware and to get the ball rolling on more events.

What would make that even better (here I go with my ideas again Wink

) is if there were some easy way to keep a list of in which city, province/state/etc., and country each runner who wanted to participate lives. Then, you could know who lived around you; and, even better, if work or whatever led you to travel, you'd know if there is anyone to meet up with wherever you're going.

There was a thread and google map for exactly this, set up like 2-3 years ago. There were like 100 entries or something until people started dicking around and editing our locations/markers all over the place so that it was useless. But yea, that was a good idea.

Radix

2013-07-09 08:28:47 pm

I'm addicted to games

I dunno, I live in Pittsburgh along with several other runners and I only see them at AGDQ. Maybe I smell bad.

UraniumAnchor

2013-07-09 08:39:21 pm

Not a walrus

When did you move out of Texas? :p

Sir VG

2013-07-09 08:49:18 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Radix:

I dunno, I live in Pittsburgh along with several other runners and I only see them at AGDQ. Maybe I smell bad.

Just say you're gonna start speedrunning Metroid Prime again. I'm sure people will flood to your door at the news.

Mr. Kelly R. Flewin

2013-07-09 09:52:59 pm

Learning to Stream

Needs to be a marathon in Grand Forks or Fargo in Winter! Then us Canadians can sharpen our skates and skate down to the marathon Smiley

Sadly.. being a Canadian means any trips to the US get stupid expensive VERY quick. [Outside of Vegas for my honeymoon.. holy crap.. I mean $840 for 4 days, flight, hotel? That was cheap as chips! Funspot.... $400-600 each, cottage rental, car rental, gas, tournament entries... Love it though!]

This is what I hate the most... we're 2 countries.. part of 1 damn continent... but to cross each others borders... you need to hawk your Kidney or something to make it affordable.

If either marathon was a lot closer, I'd be more inclined to go for it, even just to hang out and wax nostalgia, and do goofy ass things on camera to entertain [Because when I feel comfortable, I turn from shy and hidden to happy go lucky merry maker, as PJ can attest]

Sadly, C4L didn't work because frankly it's been a long time since I played an FF Game and everyone who went plays constantly and can whip my ass blindfolded. ^^;;

I'd still go regardless of running something or not, just to be a part of history. Won't happen for a while due to large bills and wanting to start a family.. but it will happen.

But yeah... Part of History. To be there when the donation hits the "HOLY SHIT $1 MILLION DOLLARS?!?!?!", the epic thrashing of a game live, camraderie...

Till then I will sit back and donate happily... but I'm going to go for everything above. If I ever get good enough to run a game and am asked to run one? Hot Skippy!

But that's just my thoughts..

Needs to be a marathon in Grand Forks or Fargo in Winter! Then us Canadians can sharpen our skates and skate down to the marathon :)

Sadly.. being a Canadian means any trips to the US get stupid expensive VERY quick. [Outside of Vegas for my honeymoon.. holy crap.. I mean $840 for 4 days, flight, hotel? That was cheap as chips! Funspot.... $400-600 each, cottage rental, car rental, gas, tournament entries... Love it though!]

This is what I hate the most... we're 2 countries.. part of 1 damn continent... but to cross each others borders... you need to hawk your Kidney or something to make it affordable.

If either marathon was a lot closer, I'd be more inclined to go for it, even just to hang out and wax nostalgia, and do goofy ass things on camera to entertain [Because when I feel comfortable, I turn from shy and hidden to happy go lucky merry maker, as PJ can attest]

Sadly, C4L didn't work because frankly it's been a long time since I played an FF Game and everyone who went plays constantly and can whip my ass blindfolded. ^^;;

I'd still go regardless of running something or not, just to be a part of history. Won't happen for a while due to large bills and wanting to start a family.. but it will happen.

But yeah... Part of History. To be there when the donation hits the "HOLY SHIT $1 MILLION DOLLARS?!?!?!", the epic thrashing of a game live, camraderie...

Till then I will sit back and donate happily... but I'm going to go for everything above. If I ever get good enough to run a game and am asked to run one? Hot Skippy!

But that's just my thoughts..

Kiyura

2013-07-09 10:36:50 pm

Wiiaboo

Quote:

"HOLY SHIT $1 MILLION DOLLARS?!?!?!"

I'm gonna be the first to call it. AGDQ 2014. Gonna happen.

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2013-07-09 10:39:55 pm

2013-07-09 10:39:40 pm

Is PJ

Quote from Kiyura:

Quote:

"HOLY SHIT $1 MILLION DOLLARS?!?!?!"

I'm gonna be the first to call it. AGDQ 2014. Gonna happen.

I called it during the shoutouts at the end of AGDQ2013. Booyah!

Ghostwheel

Edit history:

Ghostwheel: 2013-07-09 11:51:11 pm

2013-07-09 11:50:55 pm

The artist formerly known as Qxy

I've been speedrunning for a year and a half now, and I've found that trying to make my way into the community has been an uphill battle with the recent explosion of new speedrunners. The community had always been small, and probably works best that way. But only a few people get to go to a live marathon, and the SRL front page requirements keep getting stricter as more people meet them. It's tough to not feel a little alienated when even if you do well in your own admittedly obscure game, you don't really have the same connection to the community that the people who have attended marathons has with each other. Now I've met some cool people here, my stream gets a steady 4-5 viewers to keep me company, and I had a great time at this year's SRG marathon. I'm happy where i am because speedrunning is a hobby for me which simultaneously lets me think in a vacuum and squeeze every ounce of difficulty I can out of my favorite games; anything else is a bonus. I didn't even know about streaming until the very end of last year. Now that the roundtable is upon us, I want to say what I can:

I think that the first step to bringing speedrunners together is to compile all of our information and make a complete knowledge base. This has the potential to be what every streamer wants to link to a new guy in the chat asking about tricks or wanting to get into running. If kept up to date, it also lets runners who have taken a break catch up on new strategies when they get back in the game. This is even more important today, in a world where less permanent forms of communication are often used between runners. It'll also help tie together the sprawling mass of communities that exist for different games. For instance, I had no idea when I started here why there weren't any threads about zelda or metroid games. The knowledge base doesn't need to have a guide in this case, but it can have links to all the loose pages and main hubs of information where runners of those games congregate. In addition, recording and streaming guides are definitely a plus if we want to promote the continuing production of high quality videos. This only works if people contribute, though, so I think a major goal should be to advertise the hell out of it, as others have said.

As I've said, people who go to live marathons tend to have a great time participating and become closer with the rest of the community. I As long as a conscious effort is continued to be made in letting new, qualified players participate, I'm confident that the more tight knit section of the community will continue to grow. I really don't have a problem with the way things are being done in this regard, and I'm happy that online marathons that let me break out and contribute in my own way are cropping up more often.

Other than that, I think that the structure of speedrunning communities can only get better from here. The SDA staff in particular has done fantastic work over the last year and a half, and I'm happy to see a roundtable like this pave the way for the future.

I've been speedrunning for a year and a half now, and I've found that trying to make my way into the community has been an uphill battle with the recent explosion of new speedrunners. The community had always been small, and probably works best that way. But only a few people get to go to a live marathon, and the SRL front page requirements keep getting stricter as more people meet them. It's tough to not feel a little alienated when even if you do well in your own admittedly obscure game, you don't really have the same connection to the community that the people who have attended marathons has with each other. Now I've met some cool people here, my stream gets a steady 4-5 viewers to keep me company, and I had a great time at this year's SRG marathon. I'm happy where i am because speedrunning is a hobby for me which simultaneously lets me think in a vacuum and squeeze every ounce of difficulty I can out of my favorite games; anything else is a bonus. I didn't even know about streaming until the very end of last year. Now that the roundtable is upon us, I want to say what I can:

I think that the first step to bringing speedrunners together is to compile all of our information and make a complete knowledge base. This has the potential to be what every streamer wants to link to a new guy in the chat asking about tricks or wanting to get into running. If kept up to date, it also lets runners who have taken a break catch up on new strategies when they get back in the game. This is even more important today, in a world where less permanent forms of communication are often used between runners. It'll also help tie together the sprawling mass of communities that exist for different games. For instance, I had no idea when I started here why there weren't any threads about zelda or metroid games. The knowledge base doesn't need to have a guide in this case, but it can have links to all the loose pages and main hubs of information where runners of those games congregate. In addition, recording and streaming guides are definitely a plus if we want to promote the continuing production of high quality videos. This only works if people contribute, though, so I think a major goal should be to advertise the hell out of it, as others have said.

As I've said, people who go to live marathons tend to have a great time participating and become closer with the rest of the community. I As long as a conscious effort is continued to be made in letting new, qualified players participate, I'm confident that the more tight knit section of the community will continue to grow. I really don't have a problem with the way things are being done in this regard, and I'm happy that online marathons that let me break out and contribute in my own way are cropping up more often.

Other than that, I think that the structure of speedrunning communities can only get better from here. The SDA staff in particular has done fantastic work over the last year and a half, and I'm happy to see a roundtable like this pave the way for the future.

oasiz

Edit history:

oasiz: 2013-07-10 04:44:08 am

oasiz: 2013-07-10 04:40:54 am

2013-07-10 04:39:46 am

Iha paska

Quote:

I think that the first step to bringing speedrunners together is to compile all of our information and make a complete knowledge base. . . .

RATTATADA TA TA TTA TTA TAAAAAA !!! https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Main_Page

Still fresh and new content is being added but that is the very idea of the KB !

Paraxade

Edit history:

Paraxade: 2013-07-10 10:04:21 am

Paraxade: 2013-07-10 10:03:23 am

Paraxade: 2013-07-10 09:51:46 am

Paraxade: 2013-07-10 09:50:55 am

2013-07-10 09:50:05 am

yeesh I should have been reading this thread earlier. I think I thought it was just an announcement thread for the roundtable and it wasn't til today I clicked on it and went oh wow there's 14 pages and some actual discussion here.

Anyway I have some thoughts, I've only read up to about page 7 but I have some points to make that I haven't seen anyone else bring up, plus I need to sleep soon and the roundtable stream is only 9 hours away, so may as well post now. Might add onto this later if I have time to read through more of the thread.

re: embedded players: I'm glad nate is planning to make the embedded player available on more runs as I personally don't really download runs anymore and prefer the convenience of the embedded player. That said, I still think we're long overdue to replace the embedded player completely. It has a huge host of problems like being crap quality, not having much functionality, being buggy, not playing ILs in the correct order... it overall just kinda sucks. Since pretty much every run ever is posted on YouTube too, I think the YouTube player would be a great replacement. There's kind of some bias around here against YouTube from way back when it used to suck, but it's actually very good and very functional these days; great quality video, player is to be loaded with features, including the ability to select different quality levels, which I think is a big one for a site like SDA. Then there's other pluses associated with it not directly related to the video like providing more exposure for the runner (if we embed a video posted from their account), allowing viewers to interact with the run/runner through the YouTube comments section, etc.. The only downside compared to the current player is the 30fps limit, but it beats the hell out of the embedded player in every other aspect. Either way our current player has gotta go.

re: people who only want to attend the marathon if they can run a game: From my perspective the difference between running a game and running tech support is that running a game lets you offer something unique to the marathon. Yeah, tech contributions are valuable and vital for the marathon to run smoothly, but everyone who does tech generally does the same basic thing as everyone else taking turns doing it and there's no personal touch between different tech guys for the most part. When you run a game you get to have a more personal impact on the marathon; you get to run a game, introduce your own personal taste and style into a small segment of the marathon, and you walk away feeling like you've had a larger impact than if you were just on the donation station for a while. Not trying to offend anyone who runs the donation station, but I see it as different types of work that are rewarding in different ways, and some people prefer one type to the other. Ego isn't really part of it. [ok I think I'm just really bad at expressing what I mean here, I am definitely not trying to put down anyone working on the donation station or doing tech stuff]

re: inclusion: I think including as many people as possible in the marathon is something important that's definitely worth putting a lot of time into. The problem as I see it though is all the ideas people are presenting about how to do it - generally, either "spread the games out among different runners" or "leave things how they are" - are flawed for two reasons. The first is that, as has been stated several times, the GDQs are a charity event, and the schedule needs to be optimized to maximize donations to make this thing successful. Community togetherness is fantastic, but it's not the ultimate goal of the marathon, as far as I see it. The second problem is that including everyone, or even a majority, is ridiculously hard as things stand right now, and this is compounded by the fact that every year the marathon gets substantially bigger. Think it's hard to include everyone now? Try it next year. Or the year after that. How many people do you think feel included in AGDQ 2018? The fact is it's just impossible and trying to solve this problem by changing how the marathon is scheduled makes no sense when the problem will just be exacerbated next year and eventually have no hope of being even remotely close to being solved. Inclusion is something we need to tackle but the proposed changes are going about it the wrong way.

The solution to me is to make AGDQ bigger than just the main marathon stream. We run the main marathon exactly the same way we always have, but we always have tons more going on behind the scenes - why not stream some of that on another account? Why not make that part of the show? Why not think of ways we can supplement the main marathon stream with more content? It adds a lot of value to the event as a whole and adds a whole ton of room for more people to get involved. Say flicky runs his speedrun competition thing, but with regular scheduled streams every day; like maybe instead of practice for 7 days then showdown, there's a streamed elimination round every day. Or maybe there's a competitive game scheduled for AGDQ, so we stream a scheduled race and whoever wins gets to run it in the main marathon... or just other random races, maybe Cosmo could rig something up so in-person races are special on SRL somehow. Or we could have someone do some WR attempts for a little while. Maybe all these ideas suck, but think about it, there's tons of potential here to kill two birds with one stone and make AGDQ a bigger event than just the one stream while also fostering inclusion in a futureproof way.

I mean, I dunno if we're there yet due to logistical or tech-related issues, but I can definitely see us getting to the point of having multiple streams a few years down the line at least. It seems to me to be the natural way to keep expanding this event beyond just making the marathon longer (because there's a limit to how much you can do that before you drive everyone insane). Otherwise we'll very easily get to the point where the marathon itself is too small for the number of attendees.

yeesh I should have been reading this thread earlier. I think I thought it was just an announcement thread for the roundtable and it wasn't til today I clicked on it and went oh wow there's 14 pages and some actual discussion here.

Anyway I have some thoughts, I've only read up to about page 7 but I have some points to make that I haven't seen anyone else bring up, plus I need to sleep soon and the roundtable stream is only 9 hours away, so may as well post now. Might add onto this later if I have time to read through more of the thread.

re: embedded players: I'm glad nate is planning to make the embedded player available on more runs as I personally don't really download runs anymore and prefer the convenience of the embedded player. That said, I still think we're long overdue to replace the embedded player completely. It has a huge host of problems like being crap quality, not having much functionality, being buggy, not playing ILs in the correct order... it overall just kinda sucks. Since pretty much every run ever is posted on YouTube too, I think the YouTube player would be a great replacement. There's kind of some bias around here against YouTube from way back when it used to suck, but it's actually very good and very functional these days; great quality video, player is to be loaded with features, including the ability to select different quality levels, which I think is a big one for a site like SDA. Then there's other pluses associated with it not directly related to the video like providing more exposure for the runner (if we embed a video posted from their account), allowing viewers to interact with the run/runner through the YouTube comments section, etc.. The only downside compared to the current player is the 30fps limit, but it beats the hell out of the embedded player in every other aspect. Either way our current player has gotta go.

re: people who only want to attend the marathon if they can run a game: From my perspective the difference between running a game and running tech support is that running a game lets you offer something unique to the marathon. Yeah, tech contributions are valuable and vital for the marathon to run smoothly, but everyone who does tech generally does the same basic thing as everyone else taking turns doing it and there's no personal touch between different tech guys for the most part. When you run a game you get to have a more personal impact on the marathon; you get to run a game, introduce your own personal taste and style into a small segment of the marathon, and you walk away feeling like you've had a larger impact than if you were just on the donation station for a while. Not trying to offend anyone who runs the donation station, but I see it as different types of work that are rewarding in different ways, and some people prefer one type to the other. Ego isn't really part of it. [ok I think I'm just really bad at expressing what I mean here, I am definitely not trying to put down anyone working on the donation station or doing tech stuff]

re: inclusion: I think including as many people as possible in the marathon is something important that's definitely worth putting a lot of time into. The problem as I see it though is all the ideas people are presenting about how to do it - generally, either "spread the games out among different runners" or "leave things how they are" - are flawed for two reasons. The first is that, as has been stated several times, the GDQs are a charity event, and the schedule needs to be optimized to maximize donations to make this thing successful. Community togetherness is fantastic, but it's not the ultimate goal of the marathon, as far as I see it. The second problem is that including everyone, or even a majority, is ridiculously hard as things stand right now, and this is compounded by the fact that every year the marathon gets [i]substantially[/i] bigger. Think it's hard to include everyone now? Try it next year. Or the year after that. How many people do you think feel included in AGDQ 2018? The fact is it's just impossible and trying to solve this problem by changing how the marathon is scheduled makes no sense when the problem will just be exacerbated next year and eventually have no hope of being even remotely close to being solved. Inclusion is something we need to tackle but the proposed changes are going about it the wrong way.

The solution to me is to make AGDQ bigger than just the main marathon stream. We run the main marathon exactly the same way we always have, but we always have tons more going on behind the scenes - why not stream some of that on another account? Why not make that part of the show? Why not think of ways we can supplement the main marathon stream with more content? It adds a lot of value to the event as a whole and adds a whole ton of room for more people to get involved. Say flicky runs his speedrun competition thing, but with regular scheduled streams every day; like maybe instead of practice for 7 days then showdown, there's a streamed elimination round every day. Or maybe there's a competitive game scheduled for AGDQ, so we stream a scheduled race and whoever wins gets to run it in the main marathon... or just other random races, maybe Cosmo could rig something up so in-person races are special on SRL somehow. Or we could have someone do some WR attempts for a little while. Maybe all these ideas suck, but think about it, there's tons of potential here to kill two birds with one stone and make AGDQ a bigger event than just the one stream while also fostering inclusion in a futureproof way.

I mean, I dunno if we're there yet due to logistical or tech-related issues, but I can definitely see us getting to the point of having multiple streams a few years down the line at least. It seems to me to be the natural way to keep expanding this event beyond just making the marathon longer (because there's a limit to how much you can do that before you drive everyone insane). Otherwise we'll very easily get to the point where the marathon itself is too small for the number of attendees.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-07-10 10:14:08 am

2013-07-10 10:13:28 am

INTJ

I thought about this for a while now, but it seems the next 'natural' step would be the *GDQs becoming actual conventions with main stage etc....

zewing

2013-07-10 10:27:16 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

World Record attempts aren't generally good to watch until you see runner is on a roll and making people race to get into marathon is just a way to cause separation or intensify salt to someone who is already there.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-10 10:49:11 am

2013-07-10 10:49:03 am

<(^_^)>

Quote from zewing:

World Record attempts aren't generally good to watch until you see runner is on a roll and making people race to get into marathon is just a way to cause separation or intensify salt to someone who is already there.

I'm pretty sure Parax was just throwing around examples of things to watch on the side of the marathon, not necessarily just WR attempts Tongue