Speedrunner Roundtable July 10 at 9 PM EDT [locked]

2013-07-08 12:01:12 am

0-10

Quote from Flip:

Yes, from my somewhat limited experience, if everybody has the attitude that they're there to help, then nobody gets (horribly) overworked.

There could even be an intimidation factor going on. Some people just aren't technically inclined or literate like some others are. There's also the nobody wants to be "that person" that "breaks" the marathon. Whether it's that accidental click that destroys the stream, too slow in reading donations, your foot unplugging a cable, or whatever the case is, I'm sure some people just don't want to experience it. Maybe some assurances that even if you blow up the station, we can all laugh about it later. There's already enough pressure on everyone to make sure it's a success and that nothing goes wrong, we don't want to add to it because someone screwed up, regardless of what it was or how it happened.

Rakuen

2013-07-08 12:07:07 am

Weegee Time

Quote from Dragondarch:

Quote from presjpolk:

I still think it's weird to have 2d and 3d mixed. Putting Playstation and Nintendo 64 as 'old' seems wrong to me. We need 3 tiers Kappa

Probably a good idea. SNES/Genesis and before, PS1/PS2 and others for that generation, and PS3/Wii/360 onwards would probably be a good split.

[/quote]
The whole idea is sustainable organization. PS3/Wii/360 onwards only makes sense until the console generation after PS4/WiiU/XB1. Granted I'm looking at a time that's 5+ years off, but it's better to plan for that inevitability than to have to have a similar conversation and change later on.

Of course, if that's an acceptable trade off then by all means go that route. At least you'd only have to split up one forum instead of two.

Reed

2013-07-08 12:08:12 am

@tiburonCS

Quote from Dragondarch:

Quote:

I thought of that myself, but how would handhelds fit in then? The best way I can think of is something along the lines of "GBA connects to Gamecube, so they are together," but that methodology isn't quite airtight, imo.

Maybe GB/GBC with oldest, GBA with old, DS/PSP onwards with new?

Going by Wikipedia's way of categorizing them seems obvious enough. But according to wiki, Game Boy is fourth gen, while Game Boy Color/Light/Pocket is fifth. I don't know if it bothers you guys to split it there.

Poxnor

2013-07-08 12:09:46 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from Sir VG:

In order to spread the work out and make sure one or two people don't feel that they have to carry all the load, make it that everybody who runs a game HAS to work the donation tracker for some period of time. Doesn't need to be long - but at least an hour or two during the marathon. Many hands make light work. I've worked the donation trackers before, but I was OK with it, because I knew that at some point, I was gonna get a chance to play. I considered it a fair trade.

It was never explicitly stated at C4L, but this was how it worked (and probably each participant worked way more than a few hours at the tech stations -- but, I never had to ask anyone; they just did it). If you were rested, fed, and not gaming: grab a computer and help out. The whole system worked. In my opinion, asking people to fly across the continent just to work logistics is unnecessary.

Dragondarch

2013-07-08 12:10:18 am

Pudding%

Well, the idea would be that the "newer consoles" would last until PS5 gen, then a new forum would be made.

Also, there's probably no good way of handling the handhelds due to when they were released. And (personally) I see GB/GBC as too similar to split up.

Reed

2013-07-08 12:15:03 am

@tiburonCS

Quote from Dragondarch:

Well, the idea would be that the "newer consoles" would last until PS5 gen, then a new forum would be made.

Also, there's probably no good way of handling the handhelds due to when they were released. And (personally) I see GB/GBC as too similar to split up.

It seems a bit weird to have Sega Saturn games in the same forum as a console that's a successor to a console that hasn't been released yet.

Dragondarch

2013-07-08 12:20:45 am

Pudding%

Not quite sure what you mean, Reed.

My thoughts are that it would look like this:

"Oldest Consoles"
NES, Master System
SNES, Genesis
GameBoy/Color
Atari 2600
(Probably some other older stuff I'm forgetting)

"Old Consoles"
PS1, N64, Saturn
PS2, GameCube, XBox, Dreamcast
GBA

"Newer Consoles"
PS3, 360, Wii
PS4, XB1, WiiU
DS, 3DS, PSP, PSVita

Reed

2013-07-08 02:04:47 am

@tiburonCS

Quote from Dragondarch:

Not quite sure what you mean, Reed.

My thoughts are that it would look like this:

"Oldest Consoles"
NES, Master System
SNES, Genesis
GameBoy/Color
Atari 2600
(Probably some other older stuff I'm forgetting)

"Old Consoles"
PS1, N64, Saturn
PS2, GameCube, XBox, Dreamcast
GBA

"Newer Consoles"
PS3, 360, Wii
PS4, XB1, WiiU
DS, 3DS, PSP, PSVita

Oh ok, didn't realize you were talking about creating a new forum. This looks pretty good.

moooh

2013-07-08 03:03:17 am

Exoray

So which one of you guys are going to be the one that goes through every single thread in each board in order to determine which new board it should belong to? Smiley

Rakuen

2013-07-08 06:06:57 am

Weegee Time

It looks like you're splitting it up by generation, just putting multiple generations under each umbrella. So what about generation sub-forums under each heading? Then as more generations appear, sub-forums only need to be moved under the correct forum root instead of throwing around individual threads again.

Quote from moooh:

So which one of you guys are going to be the one that goes through every single thread in each board in order to determine which new board it should belong to? Smiley

I've done a similar task on another forum. As long as the thread movements are obvious, I'd estimate between 30 and 40 hours of effort depending on how responsive the forums are during the process. I'd consider doing it myself but I'm not sure how much free time I have available. :s

Svenne

2013-07-08 06:42:18 am

Smörgåsbord

I need to ask some stuff about the leaderboards, because of some reason major drama regarding menboo and the japanese players.

So a time ago a part of the Super Mario Bros. 3 community (not me or the onces I represent) made a leaderboard, taking all runs and videos they could find on the internet and made a leaderboard for three different categories. Some japanese players came and ask them to remove their time/videos on this leaderboard and the once hosting the leaderboard just said no. Even if the japanese and english versions are different enough to have to seperate leaderboards, they ignored the japanese players requests about a seperate leaderboard etc. The request were made several time and often these player were met by shitty remarks from a part of the community I really won't have any part of. This lead to the japanese player menboo to take legal action, using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights they had to remove his video but kept his time. But it was too late, he seemed to been so pissed of by everything that he stopped speedrunning alltogether. He deleted his twitch, twitter, nico and quit the team.

So that is a bit of the back-story but I want to know is: will the leaderboard only exist by submissions and race times? Also, will SDA allow their runs onto this leaderboard? These two questions are all easy to answer: yes or no! Cheesy

I need to ask some stuff about the leaderboards, because of some reason major drama regarding menboo and the japanese players.

So a time ago a part of the Super Mario Bros. 3 community (not me or the onces I represent) made a leaderboard, taking all runs and videos they could find on the internet and made a leaderboard for three different categories. Some japanese players came and ask them to remove their time/videos on this leaderboard and the once hosting the leaderboard just said no. Even if the japanese and english versions are different enough to have to seperate leaderboards, they ignored the japanese players requests about a seperate leaderboard etc. The request were made several time and often these player were met by shitty remarks from a part of the community I really won't have any part of. This lead to the japanese player menboo to take legal action, using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights they had to remove his video but kept his time. But it was too late, he seemed to been so pissed of by everything that he stopped speedrunning alltogether. He deleted his twitch, twitter, nico and quit the team.

So that is a bit of the back-story but I want to know is: will the leaderboard only exist by submissions and race times? Also, will SDA allow their runs onto this leaderboard? These two questions are all easy to answer: yes or no! :D

moooh

2013-07-08 06:57:40 am

Exoray

I guess it will be completely up to each runner whether or not their runs would be appearing somewhere else.

Lag.Com

2013-07-08 07:30:14 am

sda loyalist

Reading this thread is really starting to hurt... it makes me fully realise just how far I am away from the marathons now.

Going to AGDQ2011 was one of the most important events in my life; it was strange to be among so many like-minded people and be respected. I tried to help Nate out in the tech department but I didn't think that would happen before the time. I just happened to know a little about what was going on and decided to help. It ruined my sleep schedule and I was dead on my feet sometimes, but I wouldn't have swapped the experience for anything.

AGDQ2012 wasn't quite the same; I wasn't "needed" like I was in 2011, but I was still welcome and I got to talk to more people. I said I wanted to help more but was dissuaded from taking the mic so I abandoned that idea. However I did get to be onscreen more this time, because I had more games but also to provide couch commentary. It was starting to become clear that people's contributions to the marathon were being rated... an unnamed person has managed to make quite a name for themselves by being caustic to other speedrunners and outrageous to the stream. For some reason this is a winning formula.

I didn't go to AGDQ2013 partially because of finances but also because of the amount of people who have proven poisonous to other members of the community who were still invited. If I'm not mistaken, there were more issues between attendees than ever this time. However small the ratio is, the fact that it is (apparently) growing is worrying. Moderating the chat was a harder job than ever before, because so many watchers were intent on disrupting proceedings.

I apologise for not mentioning SGDQ events here, my memories of those are more muddled. The only thing I remember being annoyed at is people talking over the PC runs all the time, but that's not a community problem.

SDA has only been growing throughout its entire existence, and the growth sped up dramatically after CGDQ. I'm not trying to oppose this; I just want the growth to be managed. I want larger checks put in place to prevent harassment and bullying, or at the very least shunning those who promote it and trying to prevent people from doing it at marathon events and on stream.

C4L proved that community events can help SDA and I only ever see myself going to these smaller and more intimate gatherings now, at least partially because that way Emily and I won't be the target of as much hatred.

Reading this thread is really starting to hurt... it makes me fully realise just how far I am away from the marathons now.

Going to AGDQ2011 was one of the most important events in my life; it was strange to be among so many like-minded people and be respected. I tried to help Nate out in the tech department but I didn't think that would happen before the time. I just happened to know a little about what was going on and decided to help. It ruined my sleep schedule and I was dead on my feet sometimes, but I wouldn't have swapped the experience for anything.

AGDQ2012 wasn't quite the same; I wasn't "needed" like I was in 2011, but I was still welcome and I got to talk to more people. I said I wanted to help more but was dissuaded from taking the mic so I abandoned that idea. However I did get to be onscreen more this time, because I had more games but also to provide couch commentary. It was starting to become clear that people's contributions to the marathon were being rated... an unnamed person has managed to make quite a name for themselves by being caustic to other speedrunners and outrageous to the stream. For some reason this is a winning formula.

I didn't go to AGDQ2013 partially because of finances but also because of the amount of people who have proven poisonous to other members of the community who were still invited. If I'm not mistaken, there were more issues between attendees than ever this time. However small the ratio is, the fact that it is (apparently) growing is worrying. Moderating the chat was a harder job than ever before, because so many watchers were intent on disrupting proceedings.

I apologise for not mentioning SGDQ events here, my memories of those are more muddled. The only thing I remember being annoyed at is people talking over the PC runs all the time, but that's not a community problem.

SDA has only been growing throughout its entire existence, and the growth sped up dramatically after CGDQ. I'm not trying to oppose this; I just want the growth to be managed. I want larger checks put in place to prevent harassment and bullying, or at the [i]very least[/i] shunning those who promote it and trying to prevent people from doing it [i]at marathon events and on stream[/i].

C4L proved that community events can help SDA and I only ever see myself going to these smaller and more intimate gatherings now, at least partially because that way Emily and I won't be the target of as much hatred.

Kiyura

Edit history:

Kiyura: 2013-07-08 07:34:38 am

2013-07-08 07:31:38 am

Wiiaboo

At the roundtable, Cosmo will explain what the leaderboard is and how it will work. This has been in the works for quite a while. Maybe let him give a good intro and if you still have questions you can ask then? It seems like a waste to go over really simple questions about it now, when we can spend the same time doing it with a much larger audience in two days.

Svenne

2013-07-08 07:35:43 am

Smörgåsbord

Well, only one of my questions was towards him, the second one was to see if SDA would put up all runs here onto that leaderboard. But I got that one covered. I better have the hard questions in writing right now so he cannot ignore them, which usually is what happens during these things.

Edenal

Edit history:

Edenal: 2013-07-08 07:42:55 am

2013-07-08 07:39:48 am

Hockey enthusiast

Something that's been bothering me for quite some time are the constant online marathons with the sole purpose of raising money to a select few runners who wants to attend *GDQ/ESA. And I might be out on thin ice here, but seeing prominent members of the SDA(and SRL/ESA)-staff taking part in these marathons turns it into a popularity contest. The benefactor might be a close friend but that does not change that it's highly questionable from a moral standpoint.
And I for one, would like to see anyone involved in planing or organizing a major on-site marathon not taking part in any kind of fundraiser with a single or a few benefactors.

Edit: I'm thinking a online-marathons like TheMegaMarathon https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApLPxc7ItywhdFZLUFhqbWJHcGF2Yk1iRExCZzk2Znc#gid=2 , and not events like the Shin-Thon II.

Onin

2013-07-08 07:44:42 am

I feel like part of the problem of this hive nest that was opened, is the idea that AGDQ/SGDQ is the most prestigious event in the speedrunning community. It's the one event everyone wants to be at just because it's a big thing. It's the MLG of speedrunning. But it also isn't, since the runners don't get anything but the honour of performing from it, being a charity event.

Perhaps someone should look into the possibility of a competitive speedrunning event. Something that can coexist with AGDQ and distract the fame-hunters, something that gives out cash prizes to runners instead of charity. I think there would be enough demand for such a different style, different attitude of event.
Though I guess that'd be more of an SRL-flavoured event than SDA.

Lee

2013-07-08 07:49:17 am

While I don't mind raising funds for only a few people to go to marathon events and whatnot, I'd also like to see this kind of stuff be a little more centralized. 3 or 4 marathons all to help 2 or 3 people get to a marathon could be way better served as just 1 marathon. Honestly with the amount of money raised by a single marathon we could probably cover costs for anyone who needed it, instead marathon fatigue has set in already and it's not even time for SGDQ yet. I have no moral issues with helping someone get to a marathon, but I would like to see a reduction in overflow.

Although I think with the current spate of slightly dubious marathons, people are starting to become more picky about which marathons they do take part in.

Cool Matty

Edit history:

Cool Matty: 2013-07-08 08:00:55 am

2013-07-08 07:59:36 am

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Lag.com: just because people act like asses sometimes isn't really a qualifier to banning people from a marathon. Most people, if you sit them down and tell them to wise up, will do so. If for some reason it still escalates beyond that, then that's something that needs to be addressed, but I feel like just banning people for anything they've done in the past creates an adversarial situation. There's other ways to punish people anyway (and such methods have been used in the past).

I also think your analysis of AGDQ2013 is completely off-base. There were issues, but other than one particular instance (which was handled privately and punishments were issued), I think it was rather smooth. And this is coming from someone who doesn't particularly like a few people at AGDQ Tongue

jape

2013-07-08 08:02:23 am

looking forward to the roundtable

Edenal

2013-07-08 08:08:05 am

Hockey enthusiast

Quote from Lee:

Text

Well said. I see that this "issue" has been vented before. Looking forward to the roundtable and what others think about it.

Lag.Com

2013-07-08 08:10:27 am

sda loyalist

Deliberately attacking other members of your peer group on sexist and other ignorant grounds isn't a qualifier to banning people from a marathon? How about being an asshole at a marathon? Apparently not either!

Make some rules.

Cool Matty

2013-07-08 08:13:17 am

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Quote from Lag.Com:

Deliberately attacking other members of your peer group on sexist and other ignorant grounds isn't a qualifier to banning people from a marathon? How about being an asshole at a marathon? Apparently not either!
Make some rules.

There will never be effective rules without communication, something that I sense is severely lacking right here.

Lag.Com

2013-07-08 08:14:32 am

sda loyalist

You're saying past behaviour isn't a good indicator of how someone will behave at a marathon. I'm saying it is.

Cool Matty

2013-07-08 08:22:58 am

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Quote from Lag.Com:

You're saying past behaviour isn't a good indicator of how someone will behave at a marathon. I'm saying it is.

Actually I'm saying something completely unrelated right now. I'm saying if you want something taken care of, making vague hints to it on a thread months/years later isn't going to get it solved. And there have been many instances of people who were less than nice on the forums who turned out perfectly fine people in person anyway. If it's that big of an issue (And I'm not trying to downplay it, seriously), then it should have been addressed as soon as it happened. No beating around the bush, nothing.