Sonic 3 and Knuckles!

2006-03-19 09:05:45 am

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

Eh, I've never liked glitches in games, much less using them to get better times. Feels like cheating to me. If/when I do a Knuckles run, it'll be glitchless. Impressive, nonetheless.

mike89

2006-03-19 11:11:44 pm

SEGA Junkie

Just did a Sonic run. I'm not as happy with this one.

AI1: 0:59
AI2: 1:42
HC1: 1:29
HC2: 2:09
MG1: 1:49
MG2: 2:52 (didn't use the aforementioned glitch, as it was proving too troublesome)
CN1: 1:03
CN2: 3:26 (really screwed this boss up - I let it go off screen when I had 7 hits, costing me about 15 seconds)
IC1: 2:39 (screwed this level up in general - not sure which path to take here)
IC2: 1:28
LB1: 2:47
LB2: 2:30 (another level in which I lost my way)
MH1: 1:19
MH2: 1:31
FB1: 2:33
FB2: 3:36
SO1: 3:25 (this is where my run begins to fade - I just looked very sloppy in this, SO2 and LR2)
SO2: 4:02 (forgot the lightning shield, and it just went backwards from there)
LR1: 2:31
LR2: 4:27 (I expected this to be bad, but not this bad. I spent the better part of a minute trying to ascend to Knuckles :x)
HP: 0:39 (boss fight was not good, but the time isn't that bad)
SS: 1:08 (home to the biggest cut in the game, you can trick the game into thinking the bottom of the level is in a different place, and skip the majority of the level)
DE1: 2:31
DE2: 3:24 + 0:48 = 4:12 (2 deaths costing ~55 seconds, explained later)

TOTAL: 57 minutes 42 seconds, 2 deaths

Okay. Now I know no way to explain what happened on DE2, so I'll just put up a video of it instead.

http://www.soniccenter.org/mike89/wtf.avi

Lost another life afterwards because I missed an Insta-Shield, but... losing a life to a glitch on the final boss... damn that sucked.

Just did a Sonic run. I'm not as happy with this one.

AI1: 0:59
AI2: 1:42
HC1: 1:29
HC2: 2:09
MG1: 1:49
MG2: 2:52 (didn't use the aforementioned glitch, as it was proving too troublesome)
CN1: 1:03
CN2: 3:26 (really screwed this boss up - I let it go off screen when I had 7 hits, costing me about 15 seconds)
IC1: 2:39 (screwed this level up in general - not sure which path to take here)
IC2: 1:28
LB1: 2:47
LB2: 2:30 (another level in which I lost my way)
MH1: 1:19
MH2: 1:31
FB1: 2:33
FB2: 3:36
SO1: 3:25 (this is where my run begins to fade - I just looked very sloppy in this, SO2 and LR2)
SO2: 4:02 (forgot the lightning shield, and it just went backwards from there)
LR1: 2:31
LR2: 4:27 (I expected this to be bad, but not this bad. I spent the better part of a minute trying to ascend to Knuckles :x)
HP: 0:39 (boss fight was not good, but the time isn't that bad)
SS: 1:08 (home to the biggest cut in the game, you can trick the game into thinking the bottom of the level is in a different place, and skip the majority of the level)
DE1: 2:31
DE2: 3:24 + 0:48 = 4:12 (2 deaths costing ~55 seconds, explained later)

TOTAL: [b]57 minutes 42 seconds[/b], 2 deaths

Okay. Now I know no way to explain what happened on DE2, so I'll just put up a video of it instead.

[url]http://www.soniccenter.org/mike89/wtf.avi[/url]

Lost another life afterwards because I missed an Insta-Shield, but... losing a life to a glitch on the final boss... damn that sucked.

yoshmaster5

2006-03-20 01:09:59 am

Also tenkiforecast

0_o;;;;;

yikes.

Sandbag29

2006-03-20 01:32:22 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yea. Not good. We usually demand a no-deaths run in these types of games 8o]

Keep trying, mike89 And use the glitch, even if it's hard.

-Suzaku-

Edit history:

-Suzaku-: 2006-03-20 01:35:48 am

2006-03-20 01:35:03 am

Eternal Understudy

Quote:

Yea. Not good. We usually demand a no-deaths run in these types of games 8o]

Keep trying, mike89 And use the glitch, even if it's hard.

hush up, Sandbag. Make a run, then come back and tell people what to do.

Good job, Mike. I personally think you should try again for deathless. I've seen your skill and I know that you're capable of this! Don't pull a 'Suzaku' and send in a run with deaths Wink

derDivisor47

2006-03-20 02:11:12 am

The Error happenend to me too - more than once, on Sonic Mega Collection and on Megadrive.
Actually I thought Sonic speedruns would be messed up by runnig too fast a lot.

Is the Knuckles Glitch luckfree? - can a good player pull it off everytime?

Can I compare my times with Sonic Mega Collection to yours when I run my PAL version in 60hz mode?

Daniel

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2006-03-20 02:53:39 am

2006-03-20 02:52:42 am

SEGA Junkie

Here's another one to add to the bloopers list:

http://www.soniccenter.org/mike89/wtf2.avi

I then took a death at that point as I knew I wouldn't be able to proceed in the level, therefore I cut my losses and lost minimal time. I don't know what triggers this one, it seems to happen about one time in every five.

Suzaku, I'll definitely be playing again for deathless. They all will be when I'm done.

derDivisor47: The "Knuckles glitch" works for all characters, and no you can't get it consistently. That's why I'm considering not using it for Sonic/Tails (Knuckles pretty well needs it as it saves about a minute).

And I'll be playing in PAL-60 mode on SMC, too. So comparing won't be an issue (but it wouldn't have been anyway).

HeroPenguin

2006-03-20 04:12:05 am

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

One in five? That's very odd, I've NEVER seen that happen. Your Death Egg wtf was another ouch, but that one I think I have experienced once. It's a shame Sonic games are always so buggy, because aside from those they normally are good. :/

derDivisor47

Edit history:

derDivisor47: 2006-03-20 04:33:28 am

2006-03-20 04:28:01 am

Quote:

The "Knuckles glitch" works for all characters, and no you can't get it consistently. That's why I'm considering not using it for Sonic/Tails (Knuckles pretty well needs it as it saves about a minute).

And I'll be playing in PAL-60 mode on SMC, too. So comparing won't be an issue (but it wouldn't have been anyway).

If it is rather "random" shouldn't we consider banning that glitch. The variing number of tries needed could be the importent seconds needed to set up a record - and imo that would be lame.
(btw: in Carneval Night Knuckles will start at his usual position after using the glitch, right ?)

Great that we can compare. S3&K is my all-time favorite game and I am really looking forward for your run - unfortunately I won't be competiton. I usually prefer exploring around.
What type of controller do you use? I rather like the analog stick and didn't expect that in advance.

About Sonic games being buggy: did you guys ever notice thta it is mentioned in the instruction-manual not to move very fast after being hit. If you get stuck you shoul hit reset. So the staff knew that there were some bugs before the game was released.

Daniel

[quote]The "Knuckles glitch" works for all characters, and no you can't get it consistently. That's why I'm considering not using it for Sonic/Tails (Knuckles pretty well needs it as it saves about a minute).

And I'll be playing in PAL-60 mode on SMC, too. So comparing won't be an issue (but it wouldn't have been anyway).[/quote]
If it is rather "random" shouldn't we consider banning that glitch. The variing number of tries needed could be the importent seconds needed to set up a record - and imo that would be lame.
(btw: in Carneval Night Knuckles will start at his usual position after using the glitch, right ?)

Great that we can compare. S3&K is my all-time favorite game and I am really looking forward for your run - unfortunately I won't be competiton. I usually prefer exploring around.
What type of controller do you use? I rather like the analog stick and didn't expect that in advance.

About Sonic games being buggy: did you guys ever notice thta it is mentioned in the instruction-manual not to move very fast after being hit. If you get stuck you shoul hit reset. So the staff knew that there were some bugs before the game was released.

Daniel

-Suzaku-

2006-03-20 04:32:24 am

Eternal Understudy

Quote:

If it is rather "random" shouldn't we consider banning that glitch.

Not at all. Most things in most runs are random. If the glitch is too, too bad. It just shows true patience for the runner to continue until it is pulled off.

derDivisor47

2006-03-20 04:42:08 am

Quote:

Most things in most runs are random. If the glitch is too, too bad.

Well I can't think of something else in S3&K that is random in a way that it affects a speedrun - and it should be easy for mike98 to prove me wrong.
But I alone don't make the rules....

mike98: may the random be with you Cheesy

Daniel

mike89

2006-03-20 04:49:18 am

SEGA Junkie

And Tails is now done too.

AI1: 1:01
AI2: 1:44
HC1: 1:06
HC2: 1:47
MG1: 1:26
MG2: 3:03 (lost my fire shield, which cost me at least half a minute on the boss)
CN1: 1:08
CN2: 2:55 (beating my PR!)
IC1: 1:42 (and again!)
IC2: 1:19
LB1: 2:27
LB2: 2:13
MH1: 1:18
MH2: 1:37
FB1: 2:07 (expect big things from this level when I get around to the final submission!)
FB2: 3:35
SO1: 2:43 (Worst. Boss. Fight. Ever. Thank goodness I'm not revealing this run.)
SO2: 3:14 (this boss fight gave act 1 a run for its money, but it was okay I guess)
LR1: 2:46
LR2: 3:41
HP: 0:36
SS: 1:07 (same exploit as Sonic)
DE1: 2:12
DE2: 3:57 (finished in one run this time, so my time is shown as such)

TOTAL: 50 minutes 44 seconds, deathless

And with easy improvements to MG2 and Sandopolis, this could easily go sub 50.

There's my preparations complete. Just looking at my exam schedule my school holidays start three weeks from today. Then comes the speedruns, assuming I can get well enough accustomed to the GameCube controller for Sonic...

And Tails is now done too.

AI1: 1:01
AI2: 1:44
HC1: 1:06
HC2: 1:47
MG1: 1:26
MG2: 3:03 (lost my fire shield, which cost me at least half a minute on the boss)
CN1: 1:08
CN2: 2:55 (beating my PR!)
IC1: 1:42 (and again!)
IC2: 1:19
LB1: 2:27
LB2: 2:13
MH1: 1:18
MH2: 1:37
FB1: 2:07 (expect big things from this level when I get around to the final submission!)
FB2: 3:35
SO1: 2:43 (Worst. Boss. Fight. Ever. Thank goodness I'm not revealing this run.)
SO2: 3:14 (this boss fight gave act 1 a run for its money, but it was okay I guess)
LR1: 2:46
LR2: 3:41
HP: 0:36
SS: 1:07 (same exploit as Sonic)
DE1: 2:12
DE2: 3:57 (finished in one run this time, so my time is shown as such)

TOTAL: [b]50 minutes 44 seconds[/b], deathless

And with easy improvements to MG2 and Sandopolis, this could easily go sub 50.

There's my preparations complete. Just looking at my exam schedule my school holidays start three weeks from today. Then comes the speedruns, assuming I can get well enough accustomed to the GameCube controller for Sonic...

HeroPenguin

2006-03-20 07:32:07 am

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

Quote:

About Sonic games being buggy: did you guys ever notice thta it is mentioned in the instruction-manual not to move very fast after being hit. If you get stuck you shoul hit reset. So the staff knew that there were some bugs before the game was released.

YES.

mike89

2006-03-21 06:21:59 am

SEGA Junkie

Heh, just had a thought.

Could Radix/Nate look at the MG2 vid and decide if that strat is legal? I wouldn't want to have my run knocked back for that - but then I wouldn't like my run not going sub 40 because of it either.

Sandbag29

2006-03-21 11:02:32 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

When mike89's done with his exams, He'll probably shatter the mark.

Suzaku, you hush up. I'd rather grab a controller and... well, I won't do that [yet]

One question, mike. How bad do you want these runs?

yoshmaster5

2006-03-21 04:30:41 pm

Also tenkiforecast

WOW... *looks forwards* I cannot wait. Grin

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2006-03-22 08:25:45 pm

2006-03-22 08:25:09 pm

it's legal.

sorry for the delay in responding: like i moron i forgot to post here after i found out.

Arrow

2006-03-22 08:31:03 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

Ok, hold up. Why is this trick legal, but the wall skip in SMB3 not legal? They seem the same to me.

nate

2006-03-22 09:15:29 pm

would be one for radix; all i know is he looked at it and said well, it's like [something else i forgot now]. i think it may have to do with the fact that it does not resemble a secret world in that you are not walking around outside the map or something.

Arrow

2006-03-22 09:35:57 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

I'm not saying the one in Sonic 3 should be illegal... I agree, it doesn't look like you're leaving the world. But I'm just wondering why the one in Mario 3 wasn't allowed, when it's essentially the same thing.

HeroPenguin

2006-03-22 10:51:29 pm

Rock on, Earthbound. Rock on.

I thought Radix's beef with certain glitches was that it didn't make sense from the character's point of view... Going through a solid wall doesn't exactley make sense.

I don't mind the glitch being used, I think it's an impressive find and a good trick, but I personally wouldn't use it, simply because it is a glitch.

Radix

2006-03-22 11:08:04 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

the wall skip in SMB3 not legal?

You're confusing me with another site.

nate

2006-03-23 12:56:53 am

;-[

mike89

2006-03-23 05:14:43 am

SEGA Junkie

Thanks for that, Radix/Nate.

I'm not going to use it for Sonic or Tails anyway, since it saves too little time and often takes too long to work to be useful. (Besides, as Tails I'd miss the fire shield, which would screw the run over.)

However, with Knuckles it saves a minute or more, so it's definitely going to be in that one.

MatrixTN

2006-03-23 09:15:34 pm

You got a deletion wish?

Quote:

I'm just wondering why the one in Mario 3 wasn't allowed, when it's essentially the same thing.

It's not permitted because Twin Galaxies doesn't.

Quote:

Going through walls you normally can't go through

They list Bowser's castle as such an example.