(SNES) Super Punch Out - Single Segment Record [2:43.37]

Heidrage

2012-06-30 07:22:18 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Check out the thread, I have a full playthrough in it on the second page

DK28

2012-06-30 09:28:21 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Damn zallard. Smokin hot! Shocked

And yes, Masked Muscle is a dick. No pun intended.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-07-04 06:58:05 pm

2012-07-04 06:57:13 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Small update today. No new times to report, but instead a problem I've run into. I just noticed today that the Rick Bruiser IL that I did was the wrong strategy! I did the TAS strategy's phase 1 upside down, which totally explains why I could never ever get on par with the TAS in phase 1. Now I'm getting 6"99 knockdowns finally... but oh yeah there's a problem. Rick Bruiser's phase 3 refill seems to be bad whenever I get anywhere near the TAS time. I've attached a video comparing 2 fights where I do identical attacks, but one fails. I have no idea what is manipulating Rick's phase 3 refill to be bigger than the TAS strategy, or if it's just random. I don't think it's random though, cause no other refills up to this point have been random in any of my IL attempts. Anyone have any idea what's causing this?

Attachment:

AC12815_HQ.mp4

Heidrage

2012-07-04 07:58:32 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

I just spent some time on this. I dont know. He does take longer to get up when you get the bad refill though. I can look into this more this weekend. School is eating up my time...

zallard1

2012-07-04 08:05:00 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Yeah I noticed that too... it's really strange. Usually the types of punches in phase 1 determine the refill type in phase 3 for Rick... but maybe speed is a factor too? It seems counter intuitive too, cause I always thought the faster you go, the "better" the refills (or the more likely you get a KO).

Heidrage

2012-07-04 08:09:56 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

I do know it is not about speed. Like do the fight normal but somewhere in the opening combo throw a high left instaid of a low right dealing out less dmg but still getting the dizzy in phase one. And then finish the fight normally. He will either have more energy in phase 2 or 3 (prolly phase 2) and it will mess up the fight. I think in this case some where you are hitting for slightly less dmg in phase 1 somewhere and I have no idea where...

zallard1

2012-07-04 10:57:30 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

So wow ok, I kept doing attempts on Rick and had problems with the refill the entire time. Every time I got 10"05 or 10"07, I got bad refills 100% of the time, yet 10"09 or above he gave me good refills. Then out of nowhere I get a 10"01 at the end of phase 2 (par with TAS) which is the first time this has happened so far. In phase 3 he gave me the good refill, then this happened...

Another one down.

Heidrage

Edit history:

Heidrage: 2012-07-04 11:17:22 pm

2012-07-04 11:09:23 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Ok, so I looked at the video you posted a few hours ago again. When you get the bad refill, you hit him 1 frame later (in phase 2 final hit) than when you get the good refill. Check this out for me please. Count the number of frames (in an encode like the one you posted) from when he finishes his attack (he stops moving left) to the frame when he gets hit (first frame when his sprite changes) and it should be around 25-26 frames. If my idea is right, then if it was 25 frames you will get the good refill, and if it was 26 frames then a bad refill would happen. So this might not be a random thing but a frame perfect thing because the first phase was so fast. This is just my theory.

Also, grats

Edit: just counted the TAS, they had a 24 frame count. So I am thinking this is a 2 frame window thing

zallard1

2012-07-04 11:35:12 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

I already deleted my previous attempts but I could record a few videos tomorrow and count the frames in phase 2 just to see if that's true. In the run I just did, he stops when the timer is at 9"56 and he is struck at 10"01 (counting 24 frames in VLC)

PJ

2012-07-04 11:37:07 pm

Is PJ

Wow zallard.

<3

Heidrage

Edit history:

Heidrage: 2012-07-04 11:43:40 pm

2012-07-04 11:41:25 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

I used VLC as well. But this really is the only thing I can think of that can cause this to happen. I counted the pixles of the health bars at 600% view and everything is perfect besides the time of the last hit. I am sure doing this in an emulator would be the best way to test

Edit: Also, you are destroying this game on the theoretical and a performance level. I commend you on this.

zallard1

2012-07-04 11:47:38 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

I don't doubt your theory; I'm almost certain the timing of the last hit is most likely the culprit. I was actually thinking maybe it was the dodge, cause I dodged in the opposite direction that the TAS does, so I swapped to a left dodge. Maybe that lent a hand in manipulating the 3rd refill? Also thanks Heidman/PJ for your encouragement! It's always great to see you guys posting nice things in this thread <3

Oh, I keep forgetting to mention this! This week, sinister1 has invited me to his stream in a skype call for Frame Perfect Fridays. Try to make it Heidman, I think you'll find some off the stuff I'm gonna talk about useful for blindfolded play Smiley

Heidrage

2012-07-05 12:06:25 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

Perhaps it has a smaller animation window? Leading to the proper timing for the hit?

Getting the smallest amount of feedback really does help motivation. I try to help the cause with the games I care about when I can. This being an example, Banjo-Kazooie, Contra series, and plenty more. I really wish even lurkers posted small stuff from time to time because others would NEVER get out of motivation.

I will try. I cant make any promises due to my school schedule... Just to be safe (cuz I am 80% sure I will miss it) post a link here to the recording. Or call/text me before you start (850-459-2079).

DK28

2012-07-05 10:21:07 am

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from PJ:

Wow zallard.

<3

+1

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-07-05 11:37:25 pm

zallard1: 2012-07-05 11:16:55 pm

zallard1: 2012-07-05 10:41:26 pm

zallard1: 2012-07-05 10:39:45 pm

zallard1: 2012-07-05 10:27:46 pm

zallard1: 2012-07-05 10:26:14 pm

2012-07-05 07:02:14 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

I tested some stuff today regarding Rick... I think Heidman is right. I got 2 similarly timed low supers, a 24 and a 25. The 24 got me the good refill while the 25 got me the bad one. I should maybe test it more, but I guess I don't feel much like it since Rick's time is already complete Tongue

EDIT: I landed the 2 Macho jabs just now. At first I thought you had to shift his guard down a 2nd time, so i did that and landed it... then the next time I tried it without the 2nd guard shift and it still lands. The only requirement is that the first punch needs to be the 2nd frame or else Macho's move timer runs out and he attacks with his first jab (which he blocks if intercepted). Now that I know this, Macho Man attempts have begun.

EDIT2: Might be a little harder than I thought. The dizzy is fairly strict (not bad when going for TAS times anyways) and he randomly hops around during several punches. He also loves starting exercise programs at the beginning of phase 2, which is pretty bad. That didn't stop me from getting a 9"47 though which is 2 frames from the TAS Smiley

I tested some stuff today regarding Rick... I think Heidman is right. I got 2 similarly timed low supers, a 24 and a 25. The 24 got me the good refill while the 25 got me the bad one. I should maybe test it more, but I guess I don't feel much like it since Rick's time is already complete :P

EDIT: I landed the 2 Macho jabs just now. At first I thought you had to shift his guard down a 2nd time, so i did that and landed it... then the next time I tried it without the 2nd guard shift and it still lands. The only requirement is that the first punch needs to be the 2nd frame or else Macho's move timer runs out and he attacks with his first jab (which he blocks if intercepted). Now that I know this, Macho Man attempts have begun.

EDIT2: Might be a little harder than I thought. The dizzy is fairly strict (not bad when going for TAS times anyways) and he randomly hops around during several punches. He also loves starting exercise programs at the beginning of phase 2, which is pretty bad. That didn't stop me from getting a 9"47 though which is 2 frames from the TAS :)

Heidrage

2012-07-06 03:16:36 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

And here I thought it was frame perfect. Guess I was wrong. Great find. I think I tried this too, just never landed it. He will crush a great IL by flaunting his mounds of muscles.

zallard1

2012-07-06 11:51:53 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Well, it kind of is frame perfect. Frame 1 you need your guard down and frame 2 you need to start your punch animation. From there you can buffer the 2nd punch if you did your first punch correctly. If you try to start your punch during frame 1 or 3, he'll block either the first or the 2nd punch respectively. At least it's the very first punch in the strategy though, so it's not as much of a headache as it could be.

zallard1

2012-07-06 06:38:30 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

The stream will probably start in a little bit!

DK28

2012-07-06 06:38:47 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

But I'm still at work! Sad

zallard1

2012-07-07 12:06:20 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Damn this was a long stream! I was absent for a little bit of it near the end but it was pretty fun! I coached sinister1 into getting a frame perfect Gabby Jay fight and a Heike Kagero fight that's 4 frames from the TAS. I think sinister1 might be somewhat addicted to this game now, at least the Heike Kagero fight which I'm pretty happy about! I also saw Heidman improved his pb by a frame during the stream, so I'll say this again; I expect a TAS matching Heike Kagero IL from one of you two by the end of the week. Get to it guys Smiley

Oh, and if you missed the stream, here's a link to the recording.

sinister1

2012-07-07 01:05:45 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Just want to say I am going after the Heike Kagero TAS time of 10"60. So far my best is 10"64 which is 2 frames off, both of which were lost in phase 1 Sad

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-07-08 02:41:33 pm

2012-07-07 05:28:35 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Oh man, that's awesome! You got a frame perfect phase 2! I don't think I've done that yet in my attempts. Let's see that 10"60 added to the table Wink

EDIT: Improved Super Macho Man by a frame. Just 1 more frame until we have another frame perfect fighter on the table!