(SNES) Super Punch Out - Single Segment Record [2:43.37]

2012-08-13 12:52:29 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Yeah, I've grown an appreciation for your IL, because since I've started attempts on Narcis a couple of days ago, I have yet to beat it. My best at the moment is 9"54, which is just improv on one of his many many patterns that he has. I came close to getting the phase 1 like 4 times the other night, but he didn't get hit by the final rapid punch in all of them. Actually, your IL uses the old TAS strat I'm using except for 2 key points: you use a right when he comes back in at phase 1 and you don't rapid punch him at phase 2. You were probably playing it safe on the latter, but is there a reason you used a right punch for your 5th punch?

DK28

2012-08-13 01:25:45 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

I remember I had one solid night of playing him with no success. At one point the controller took flight, unhooked and slid into the kitchen. Ahh, memories. Anyway, to your question, that's habit. Just from playing this game for so many years casually, I favor the right because it's faster. I never knew anything about speed running or technical info when I was a teenager so I just liked that I got in an extra punch here and there. I've just never changed my ways and resort to that unless I'm actively thinking about it. I must have been in auto-pilot at that particular moment.

zallard1

2012-08-13 05:41:03 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Wow, totally baffled by this one... I finally landed both DK28's strat and the old TAS strat, and neither produce a dizzy for me. Not really sure why both of them fail... the only difference I notice is that DK's jab when Narcis marches back is quite a few frames slower than mine. This game's dizzy system is so confusing sometimes. I attached videos of both attempts.

Attachments:

DK28_strat.mp4

TAS_strat.mp4

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-08-15 07:51:07 pm

2012-08-15 07:47:59 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

I beat DK's Narcis IL by 2 frames with a completely different strat that I was toying with on some lousy luck attempts. Just posting it here in case anyone's interested. This strat also shows the other animation when Narcis gets KO'd, which is kind of funny.

Of course I'm still aiming for an 8 second time, but that'll be a while. I did eventually start knocking him down a couple of times with the TAS strat, but I'm still confused about the criteria for him getting dizzy. Oh well, at least it's happening anyways. Also unrelated to Narcis, I actually landed the 2 uppercuts on Nick Bruiser's phase 2 with the normal phase 1, which lowers the time to 8"73. I'll have to start attempting the TAS strat on him soon.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-08-20 03:08:19 am

zallard1: 2012-08-20 03:07:10 am

zallard1: 2012-08-20 03:06:18 am

2012-08-20 03:01:54 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Narcis's RNG is still incredibly strong, so I opted to attempt another fight last night. I thought "why not Nick Bruiser?" He's still got the largest gap from the TAS time, so a good improvement on that would make for a good, long break from Narcis's RNG madness.

The problem with this is that after an hour of attempts, this happened...

During that hour, I got 5 TAS dizzies, 4/5 of them were frame perfect (unsure of where I lost frames on the imperfect one). What's interesting to note is that I went straight from 8"73 to 7"52, which is mostly due to the fact that once you hit the 2 frame perfect attacks, there's basically no way you can lose frames since everything is buffered attacks against this guy. I thought the luck would be difficult to put up with though, since you need the correct opening, the 2 punches before the dizzy can't be blocked, and the delay that Nick does just before the first attack in phase 2 varies alot and needs to be juuuuuust perfect to where his attack gets intercepted such that his move timer is reset. Maybe I just got incredibly lucky. This is also the only fight where the opponent's guard can be punched through. I'm not sure whether I should be enthusiastic by this, or saddened that the game is basically telling me that I'm not allowed to procrastinate on Narcis Tongue

With this, now all the Circuit champs are at frame perfect status! There are 11/16 TAS times so far, and the ones that aren't frame perfect make up 1.05 seconds of difference from the TAS. If any of the Narcis TAS strats can be hit, the total difference will most likely be dropped to under half a second or hopefully less.

Narcis's RNG is still incredibly strong, so I opted to attempt another fight last night. I thought "why not Nick Bruiser?" He's still got the largest gap from the TAS time, so a good improvement on that would make for a good, long break from Narcis's RNG madness.

The problem with this is that after an hour of attempts, this happened...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_aQ2J63FQ

During that hour, I got 5 TAS dizzies, 4/5 of them were frame perfect (unsure of where I lost frames on the imperfect one). What's interesting to note is that I went straight from 8"73 to 7"52, which is mostly due to the fact that once you hit the 2 frame perfect attacks, there's basically no way you can lose frames since everything is buffered attacks against this guy. I thought the luck would be difficult to put up with though, since you need the correct opening, the 2 punches before the dizzy can't be blocked, and the delay that Nick does just before the first attack in phase 2 varies alot and needs to be [i]juuuuuust[/i] perfect to where his attack gets intercepted such that his move timer is reset. Maybe I just got incredibly lucky. This is also the only fight where the opponent's guard can be punched through. I'm not sure whether I should be enthusiastic by this, or saddened that the game is basically telling me that I'm not allowed to procrastinate on Narcis :P

With this, now all the Circuit champs are at frame perfect status! There are 11/16 TAS times so far, and the ones that aren't frame perfect make up 1.05 seconds of difference from the TAS. If any of the Narcis TAS strats can be hit, the total difference will most likely be dropped to under half a second or hopefully less.

KHANanaphone

2012-08-20 03:07:30 am

Fiiive

Daaaaaaaaamn

sinister1

2012-08-20 08:55:35 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Way to go Zallard!!! Man, when this is done I hope Master-88 verifies because for once his assessment will be spot on!

DK28

2012-08-20 10:44:25 am

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

TAS!!! CHEATER!!!

<3

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-09-08 10:36:23 pm

2012-09-08 05:55:46 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

So I haven't updated what I've been doing in this game in a while, but long story short, Narcis Prince is still awful.

I've been fitting in attempts whenever I can, but, it's pretty overwhelming how lucky you need to be in order to complete this strategy. To illustrate this better than I can in words, here's an uncut ~50 minute Narcis IL attempt session I did today.

This is a pretty accurate representation of how IL attempts on this guy usually goes. The closest I got to knocking Narcis down occurs at 39:40 in the video if you want to skip to that. Also, here's an interesting collection of statistics if you don't want to watch the video...

There are 229 attempts in the video.
146/229 (63.75%) attempts failed to land a single punch (1st gutter)
62/229 (27.07%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #2 (2nd gutter)
5/229 (2.18%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #3 (the punch that stuns him)
6/229 (2.62%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #5 (the punch right after narcis walks back in front of you)
8/229 (3.49%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #6 (the left counter; needs to be a certain pattern of 3)
1/229 (0.43%) ended by landing only 2 of 3 rapid punches
1/229 (0.43%) landed all 3 rapid punches, but did not produce a dizzy
0/229 (0%) of attempts knocked Narcis down

If I (or anyone for that matter) can record a sub 9 second Narcis Prince video for SDA, then I'd have no reservations on submitting the ILs I have for the table.

EDIT: Got a 9.15 just now. 2 instances of bad luck happened (he dodged punch 5 and deployed the wrong pattern) but it was still ok enough to save some time over the other IL. Now the total difference between the TAS and the IL table is 0.90 seconds; sub 1 second!

So I haven't updated what I've been doing in this game in a while, but long story short, Narcis Prince is still awful.

I've been fitting in attempts whenever I can, but, it's pretty overwhelming how lucky you need to be in order to complete this strategy. To illustrate this better than I can in words, here's an uncut ~50 minute Narcis IL attempt session I did today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB_rz_OBVaU

This is a pretty accurate representation of how IL attempts on this guy usually goes. The closest I got to knocking Narcis down occurs at 39:40 in the video if you want to skip to that. Also, here's an interesting collection of statistics if you don't want to watch the video...

There are 229 attempts in the video.
146/229 (63.75%) attempts failed to land a single punch (1st gutter)
62/229 (27.07%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #2 (2nd gutter)
5/229 (2.18%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #3 (the punch that stuns him)
6/229 (2.62%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #5 (the punch right after narcis walks back in front of you)  
8/229 (3.49%) attempts ended at trying to land punch #6 (the left counter; needs to be a certain pattern of 3)
1/229 (0.43%) ended by landing only 2 of 3 rapid punches
1/229 (0.43%) landed all 3 rapid punches, but did not produce a dizzy
0/229 (0%) of attempts knocked Narcis down

If I (or anyone for that matter) can record a sub 9 second Narcis Prince video for SDA, then I'd have no reservations on submitting the ILs I have for the table.

EDIT: Got a 9.15 just now. 2 instances of bad luck happened (he dodged punch 5 and deployed the wrong pattern) but it was still ok enough to save some time over the other IL. Now the total difference between the TAS and the IL table is 0.90 seconds; sub 1 second!

Heidrage

2012-09-08 05:58:03 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

^^ Pro

zallard1

2012-09-14 08:09:22 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

9.05 on Narcis. STILL gave me the wrong pattern though, but its nice to see at least some kind of improvement. I think I need to change my goal to something like sub 8.80 being submittable, cause I'm getting really close to sub 9 with a suboptimal strat.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-09-17 08:19:19 pm

2012-09-16 09:53:08 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

It is done... and no I'm not improving this ever. I lost 13 frames off of the TAS, but the luck for this guy is ridiculous compared to every other fight in the game. If anyone can improve it, then you are strong.

My plan now is to improve Bear Hugger by at least 1 frame. So long as that time is in the 12 second range (instead of 13.01), I'd be satisfied with it. After that, then I think I'll be done with this IL table. Now the time difference between the TAS and the table is now 0.41 seconds compared to 0.90 just a few posts up; yes Narcis wasted THAT much time with the "dumb luck" strat.

PJ

2012-09-16 10:47:24 pm

Is PJ

Congrats, zallard! You've been at this fight for way too long. Must feel good to move on. ^_^

Mr. K

2012-09-16 11:45:25 pm

Yes

Congratulations! Never has the phrase "Piece of cake" been uttered with such understatement. I'm really impressed by your determination in getting the time this close to the TAS. Great job!

DK28

2012-09-17 11:51:09 am

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Well done zallard! You may now shotgun slide into the sunset. Smiley

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-09-18 07:04:15 pm

2012-09-17 08:19:05 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Thanks all! Funny thing that happened last night... right after I completed Narcis, I tried Bear Hugger for like 20 minutes. Within that time frame, I landed the TAS strat successfully, as well as the random uppercut in phase 2! The problem? I tied my 13.01 in that run. Tongue

Oh well, at least I'm 2 for 2 on landing that uppercut with the TAS strat.

EDIT: Did more attempts today. Getting the dizzy down way better than before, mostly due to realizing that Bear's stride before he points to his stomach is 5 frames apart. If you don't remember, in Hoy's final phase I needed to use his stance change as a visual cue to land the final super, and the only reason that I hit that frame perfectly is that it takes me 5 frames to react to a visual cue if I'm on point. Today I got a 12"90 knockdown twice, which would've yielded a 12"96... unfortunately the phase 2 uppercut failed in both attempts due to bad luck (I expected this). Either way, progress is looking good! It's only a matter of time until Bear Hugger is at 12 seconds.

Thanks all! Funny thing that happened last night... right after I completed Narcis, I tried Bear Hugger for like 20 minutes. Within that time frame, I landed the TAS strat successfully, as well as the random uppercut in phase 2! The problem? I tied my 13.01 in that run. :P

Oh well, at least I'm 2 for 2 on landing that uppercut with the TAS strat.

EDIT: Did more attempts today. Getting the dizzy down way better than before, mostly due to realizing that Bear's stride before he points to his stomach is 5 frames apart. If you don't remember, in Hoy's final phase I needed to use his stance change as a visual cue to land the final super, and the only reason that I hit that frame perfectly is that it takes me 5 frames to react to a visual cue if I'm on point. Today I got a 12"90 knockdown twice, which would've yielded a 12"96... unfortunately the phase 2 uppercut failed in both attempts due to bad luck (I expected this). Either way, progress is looking good! It's only a matter of time until Bear Hugger is at 12 seconds.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-09-24 02:09:18 am

zallard1: 2012-09-24 02:09:04 am

zallard1: 2012-09-24 02:08:22 am

2012-09-18 08:45:17 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

12.98

Obviously I need to adjust my goal if I got this within like 2 days of attempts. Might be shooting for the TAS time on Bear Hugger since I know the gut punch timing for sure now. Also making the TAS time a goal since I actually would've gotten the 12.92 earlier if it had not been for the phase 2 uppercut luck not being on my side.

Also, I think I'll add the total difference between the IL table and the TAS to the first post since I keep bringing it up every time I improve something.

zallard1

2012-09-24 02:19:28 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Why, hello there TAS time Bear Hugger. It's nice to finally make your acquaintance. This marks the first frame perfect circuit in the IL table: the Minor Circuit! 75% of the table is now frame perfect as well.

Next thing I'm gonna do is revisit Dragon Chan and see if I can cut those 3 frames down a bit. That fight is actually deceptively difficult to optimize though, since there is quite a few more delayed hits than most fights in the game. If I manage to get Dragon to at most 1 frame off of the TAS, then I think I'm gonna call it quits for now on the IL table. Heike's phase 2 is surprisingly annoying with the unstunned uppercut when you try to land it frame perfectly. I dunno what it is, but it feels like every time I throw the uppercut at a time I feel is frame perfect, he dodges. I have a similar problem with Piston Hurricane, but replace "dodges" with "won't get dizzy." Also Mad Clown can keep his lousy frame; he's earned it.

PJ

2012-09-24 08:34:00 am

Is PJ

Wow, awesome fight zallard! Cheesy

I'm proud of you. <3

sinister1

2012-09-24 08:58:09 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Nice work Zallard, you have really shown this game who is boss! Also that 0'13"13 Sandman thing........mind = blown

DK28

2012-09-24 12:14:04 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

This thread is why I don't get any work done...

+1 on <3 zallard

And Mad Clown keeps that frame for respect.

zallard1

2012-09-25 02:48:02 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Thanks guys!

Sick avatar RNG, DK28. Mad Clown earns that frame cause I haven't gotten a frame perfect phase 1 in ages. His randomness doesn't help that much either. Also, double 13 Sandman is the scariest coincidence. I still don't understand how that's even possible.

DK28

Edit history:

DK28: 2012-09-25 10:50:08 am

DK28: 2012-09-25 10:49:58 am

2012-09-25 10:49:35 am

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from zallard1:

Sick avatar RNG, DK28.

The forum knows. Spooky...

<- Again?! Now I'm scared.

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-09-25 11:52:03 am

2012-09-25 11:51:16 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Wow, considering you have only one SPO avatar of 19 and both posts in this thread in a row are specifically that one, there's a 0.277% chance of what just happened happening. This craziness is either due to the 13"13 anomaly or it's a sign that you should give Narcis some IL attempts today. You might have the touch.

You might have the powaaaaaaah, yeah!

In related news, I got a 7"37 on Dragon the other night (one frame off of PB), so practice is going well. Verification might be required soon Smiley

EDIT:
<- Appropriate avatar for the situation.

DK28

2012-09-25 02:52:22 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Or it could be that beyond the 13'13, the first knockdown was 5"5. So it required two. Wink

And that avatar is appropriate for any situation.