So, I just made comparisons with Behemoth's and zoast's best runs and apparently, the best point zoast ever got was when leaving Draygon's room, when he was 23 seconds ahead of Behemoth's 43:12. Great run indeed, can't not have 15 missiles from now on. The 2 round Phantoon is something I am really looking forward to, hope to see it live someday.
SDA Forum
Wow, i need to compare our tourians.
Thanks guys! Yeah, that was a pretty solid run, i can't believe i made it through tourian after the debacle in room 3. Other than botwoon, I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of time to ridley (and certainly the 3 rooms before him). Of course, there's the possible 2 round fast phantoon as well. One last place I inexplicably lost time is crateria towards tourian, must've dropped 6-7 seconds there alone.
I played briefly with that draygon strat, it seems like it has potential, but is there a backup for a goo pattern in round 2? I guess get him with ammo and through the back of the head? If you can this is surely the best strat if you get good drops from botwoon and a good round 1 @ dray.
I just want to point out that, although i'm sure it's a riskier strat, you can 2 spark him in goo pattern very fast, and it should be as fast as that 3 round. I imagine you guys know that strat, though.
Also, just to point out a couple of minor movement optimizations or backups here..
-No power bomb @ crabs before WS. I didn't really test this, but the movement is easier to do optimally and I know that laying a pb going up towards WS lags like hell.
-No power bomb to clear the floor in WS before phantoon. You'd think this is slower, but if you execute it right, unless I did something wrong, it was like less than 10 frames slower in game time, and probably saves some lag frames. It might be faster game time if you execute it clean enough.
-Shooting the door in CWJ room and mock off the pedestal, spin jump up. From my test this is slightly faster than bounceball then jump and shoot.
-The wj morph strat in the room before ice.
-Backup zeb skip to take no dmg. Suprised I actually used this. Best to clear the top rinka completely or it can get in the way, and sometimes the turret shoots you anyway.
I can't think of anything else atm. Today I found a cool room 3 grouping strat that saves a decent bit of health, and should be fast as the bounceball group. Might be a little riskier though without plenty of practice. I sure as hell didn't have the confidence to use it in this run.
Thanks guys! Yeah, that was a pretty solid run, i can't believe i made it through tourian after the debacle in room 3. Other than botwoon, I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of time to ridley (and certainly the 3 rooms before him). Of course, there's the possible 2 round fast phantoon as well. One last place I inexplicably lost time is crateria towards tourian, must've dropped 6-7 seconds there alone.
I played briefly with that draygon strat, it seems like it has potential, but is there a backup for a goo pattern in round 2? I guess get him with ammo and through the back of the head? If you can this is surely the best strat if you get good drops from botwoon and a good round 1 @ dray.
I just want to point out that, although i'm sure it's a riskier strat, you can 2 spark him in goo pattern very fast, and it should be as fast as that 3 round. I imagine you guys know that strat, though.
Also, just to point out a couple of minor movement optimizations or backups here..
-No power bomb @ crabs before WS. I didn't really test this, but the movement is easier to do optimally and I know that laying a pb going up towards WS lags like hell.
-No power bomb to clear the floor in WS before phantoon. You'd think this is slower, but if you execute it right, unless I did something wrong, it was like less than 10 frames slower in game time, and probably saves some lag frames. It might be faster game time if you execute it clean enough.
-Shooting the door in CWJ room and mock off the pedestal, spin jump up. From my test this is slightly faster than bounceball then jump and shoot.
-The wj morph strat in the room before ice.
-Backup zeb skip to take no dmg. Suprised I actually used this. Best to clear the top rinka completely or it can get in the way, and sometimes the turret shoots you anyway.
I can't think of anything else atm. Today I found a cool room 3 grouping strat that saves a decent bit of health, and should be fast as the bounceball group. Might be a little riskier though without plenty of practice. I sure as hell didn't have the confidence to use it in this run.
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 09:38:57 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 09:37:42 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-22 09:36:10 pm
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from zoast:
Wow, i need to compare our tourians.
Thanks guys! Yeah, that was a pretty solid run, i can't believe i made it through tourian after the debacle in room 3. Other than botwoon, I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of time to ridley (and certainly the 3 rooms before him). Of course, there's the possible 2 round fast phantoon as well. One last place I inexplicably lost time is crateria towards tourian, must've dropped 6-7 seconds there alone.
I played briefly with that draygon strat, it seems like it has potential, but is there a backup for a goo pattern in round 2? I guess get him with ammo and through the back of the head? If you can this is surely the best strat if you get good drops from botwoon and a good round 1 @ dray.
I just want to point out that, although i'm sure it's a riskier strat, you can 2 spark him in goo pattern very fast, and it should be as fast as that 3 round. I imagine you guys know that strat, though.
Also, just to point out a couple of minor movement optimizations or backups here..
-No power bomb @ crabs before WS. I didn't really test this, but the movement is easier to do optimally and I know that laying a pb going up towards WS lags like hell.
-No power bomb to clear the floor in WS before phantoon. You'd think this is slower, but if you execute it right, unless I did something wrong, it was like less than 10 frames slower in game time, and probably saves some lag frames. It might be faster game time if you execute it clean enough.
-Shooting the door in CWJ room and mock off the pedestal, spin jump up. From my test this is slightly faster than bounceball then jump and shoot.
-The wj morph strat in the room before ice.
-Backup zeb skip to take no dmg. Suprised I actually used this. Best to clear the top rinka completely or it can get in the way, and sometimes the turret shoots you anyway.
I can't think of anything else atm. Today I found a cool room 3 grouping strat that saves a decent bit of health, and should be fast as the bounceball group. Might be a little riskier though without plenty of practice. I sure as hell didn't have the confidence to use it in this run.
Thanks guys! Yeah, that was a pretty solid run, i can't believe i made it through tourian after the debacle in room 3. Other than botwoon, I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of time to ridley (and certainly the 3 rooms before him). Of course, there's the possible 2 round fast phantoon as well. One last place I inexplicably lost time is crateria towards tourian, must've dropped 6-7 seconds there alone.
I played briefly with that draygon strat, it seems like it has potential, but is there a backup for a goo pattern in round 2? I guess get him with ammo and through the back of the head? If you can this is surely the best strat if you get good drops from botwoon and a good round 1 @ dray.
I just want to point out that, although i'm sure it's a riskier strat, you can 2 spark him in goo pattern very fast, and it should be as fast as that 3 round. I imagine you guys know that strat, though.
Also, just to point out a couple of minor movement optimizations or backups here..
-No power bomb @ crabs before WS. I didn't really test this, but the movement is easier to do optimally and I know that laying a pb going up towards WS lags like hell.
-No power bomb to clear the floor in WS before phantoon. You'd think this is slower, but if you execute it right, unless I did something wrong, it was like less than 10 frames slower in game time, and probably saves some lag frames. It might be faster game time if you execute it clean enough.
-Shooting the door in CWJ room and mock off the pedestal, spin jump up. From my test this is slightly faster than bounceball then jump and shoot.
-The wj morph strat in the room before ice.
-Backup zeb skip to take no dmg. Suprised I actually used this. Best to clear the top rinka completely or it can get in the way, and sometimes the turret shoots you anyway.
I can't think of anything else atm. Today I found a cool room 3 grouping strat that saves a decent bit of health, and should be fast as the bounceball group. Might be a little riskier though without plenty of practice. I sure as hell didn't have the confidence to use it in this run.
Phantoon 2 Round is definitely a hard strategy but, I'm sure with practice you guys will get it down sooner or later hopefully.
Know that draygon strategy? I developed that strategy for console years ago. Yea Behemoth posted my Draygon 2 Rounder after me so just look at that smv for the fastest 2 round.
Well I wish you the both the best of luck and I can't wait to see how far this game can progress moving forward.
I think the one posted earlier kills him in the middle of the room, the one i'm talking about is pretty much the same but attacks him as soon as his belly is exposed from the right wall.
I can do phantoon 2 round with with some frequency, given the right set of patterns(& flames). I try to get 11-12 in the 1st round so left side can be done way easier without him leaving the screen, but it's easier to screw up in the 1st round.
I can do phantoon 2 round with with some frequency, given the right set of patterns(& flames). I try to get 11-12 in the 1st round so left side can be done way easier without him leaving the screen, but it's easier to screw up in the 1st round.
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Its roughly the same speed considering Draygons death animation because he goes towards the middle anyway. So you don't lose much time overall. Also as you've pointed out its riskier then what we've displayed and consistency along with speed is key IMO.
I see glad to here that you've been getting consistent with it, hopefully Draygon becomes consistent for you as well!!!
I see glad to here that you've been getting consistent with it, hopefully Draygon becomes consistent for you as well!!!
Edit history:
giganotabehemoth87: 2015-02-23 01:40:21 am
giganotabehemoth87: 2015-02-23 01:38:14 am
giganotabehemoth87: 2015-02-23 01:36:44 am
giganotabehemoth87: 2015-02-23 01:35:13 am
No Power bomb before WS - This is something I've tested in the past and also tested just recently. It's a lot slower to leave the PB till the return trip, by at least 50 frames. It's very deceptive as the lag does indeed look bad but you have to consider you're always moving, where's leaving it till later you have to wait quite a bit for the door to open. I did some smv tests of this but we might be able to turn them into a comparison video just to show. If not I'll just post them here soon.
That's really cool about the blocks in WS, it will be good to save a power bomb here. unfortunately my button setup doesn't alow me to aim down so i can't crouch and aim down in the tight space. Also I should point out, if you do use a power bomb here, It's faster to land a soft morph from the previous jump and roll left and lay the pb like I do in my runs. Another deceptive one this, but running over to jump + mock ball/bounce and lay the pb is quite a few frames slower, up to 20 frames or so iirc.
Regarding the 2 rounder, the consistency of it lies largely on how good round 1 went. That is: 4 initial missile shots followed by 6 or possibly 7 doppler shots (you can get away with 5 but this is not advised) . To make this task easier I believe standing at the left side wall and waiting for his return swoop to be the best method, regardless of what pattern it is, using your own counting method to time his arrival like the old days. Obviously letting him go off screen does slow it down a little but i feel it's the best way and sometimes we can't avoid it anyway with certain patterns. Each pattern has a different timing and it didn't take me long to figure them all out. Typically left side patterns have the longest time interval off screen, right side has the fastest and middle patterns are somewhere in between. Here are two smv's (1.52) showing a left and a right side pattern and my method to use them to my advantage. In both of these I got 7 missiles on the dopplers just to demonstrate that it's easy enough with the right timing so only a portion of his sprite is in the room, to give you the distance to deliver all 7 comfortably, and also that you only need 4 + 1 in the second round (1 being the super). Also note that in the fast left smv in round 2 i let him go off screen because the smokes were in the way. It could have been possible to clear them and still nail the 2 rounder but for safety i let him go off screen. Hopefully this helps.
That's really cool about the blocks in WS, it will be good to save a power bomb here. unfortunately my button setup doesn't alow me to aim down so i can't crouch and aim down in the tight space. Also I should point out, if you do use a power bomb here, It's faster to land a soft morph from the previous jump and roll left and lay the pb like I do in my runs. Another deceptive one this, but running over to jump + mock ball/bounce and lay the pb is quite a few frames slower, up to 20 frames or so iirc.
Regarding the 2 rounder, the consistency of it lies largely on how good round 1 went. That is: 4 initial missile shots followed by 6 or possibly 7 doppler shots (you can get away with 5 but this is not advised) . To make this task easier I believe standing at the left side wall and waiting for his return swoop to be the best method, regardless of what pattern it is, using your own counting method to time his arrival like the old days. Obviously letting him go off screen does slow it down a little but i feel it's the best way and sometimes we can't avoid it anyway with certain patterns. Each pattern has a different timing and it didn't take me long to figure them all out. Typically left side patterns have the longest time interval off screen, right side has the fastest and middle patterns are somewhere in between. Here are two smv's (1.52) showing a left and a right side pattern and my method to use them to my advantage. In both of these I got 7 missiles on the dopplers just to demonstrate that it's easy enough with the right timing so only a portion of his sprite is in the room, to give you the distance to deliver all 7 comfortably, and also that you only need 4 + 1 in the second round (1 being the super). Also note that in the fast left smv in round 2 i let him go off screen because the smokes were in the way. It could have been possible to clear them and still nail the 2 rounder but for safety i let him go off screen. Hopefully this helps.
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 06:59:51 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 06:59:24 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 03:51:33 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 03:50:50 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Regarding the WS no Power Bomb you should be able to do it Behemoth you just have to hold Angle Down on the D-Pad and Un-Morph with the Jump Button. Its been a while, but I remember doing it and it working. So try that and see if any thing good comes from it. If not you might want to test if bombing is faster.
Wow that's great you guys are starting to get consistent at the Phantoon 2 round so Sneaky Paradox from M2K2 was right when he posted on our thread a while ago you can do it consistently. He was the first person I've ever seen even do the strategy good job from him because he found it about 3 years ago and I never thought it would ever be used because my kill was faster. Due to Behemoth's route that kill actually has a purpose. Now you guys have to do it in a run!!!
Wow that's great you guys are starting to get consistent at the Phantoon 2 round so Sneaky Paradox from M2K2 was right when he posted on our thread a while ago you can do it consistently. He was the first person I've ever seen even do the strategy good job from him because he found it about 3 years ago and I never thought it would ever be used because my kill was faster. Due to Behemoth's route that kill actually has a purpose. Now you guys have to do it in a run!!!
Tested the strategies mentioned by Zoast in WS right before the green door on the bottom of the room. I'm posting 2 smvs and you can use Snes9x 1.51 to play them.
WSTest1: The softmorph strategy mentioned by Behemoth.
WSTest2: No Power Bomb, just shot the blocks on the way.
Result: The softmorph + Power Bomb is faster by 45/50 frames in average. I used frame advance for both strategies to make them equal in terms of optimization. Let me know if I did something wrong.
Edit: Just out of curiosity, the power bomb in this room generates only around 10 to maybe 15 lag frames, so it's not that bad.
WSTest1: The softmorph strategy mentioned by Behemoth.
WSTest2: No Power Bomb, just shot the blocks on the way.
Result: The softmorph + Power Bomb is faster by 45/50 frames in average. I used frame advance for both strategies to make them equal in terms of optimization. Let me know if I did something wrong.
Edit: Just out of curiosity, the power bomb in this room generates only around 10 to maybe 15 lag frames, so it's not that bad.
Excellent stuff, zoast. I couldn't catch the run live unfortunately (kind of had a long weekend), but this was a 42 in my eyes.
I was meaning to ask: have you done some tests with the choice of HJB-Ice and Ice-HJB? Here is a video comparison I did some time ago in case you didn't see it:
Looking at it now, I think I could've done the norfair mainstreet climb a little better in HJB-Ice to save some frames, though this was compensated by a perfect door shift to the 1st big heated room (in HJB-Ice). Still, both vids show the same techniques for the majority of the rooms. Just wanted to know if you've done tests to see which method is faster. Though, looking at your 43:04, I think the drops on the way up after HJB can come in handy without relying so much on the bugs drops after sbooster. Also if you take Ice-HJB the long jump softmorph you see after exiting the Ice beam room is +40-50 frames faster (and even easier to do without HJB on) than the method used of freezing the geemers or wall jumping up to the tunnel. All in all, both method have their fair share of trade offs and they are both apart by frames (in TAS), and certainly not by more than 1 sec or 2 in console play if both are well executed.
I was meaning to ask: have you done some tests with the choice of HJB-Ice and Ice-HJB? Here is a video comparison I did some time ago in case you didn't see it:
Looking at it now, I think I could've done the norfair mainstreet climb a little better in HJB-Ice to save some frames, though this was compensated by a perfect door shift to the 1st big heated room (in HJB-Ice). Still, both vids show the same techniques for the majority of the rooms. Just wanted to know if you've done tests to see which method is faster. Though, looking at your 43:04, I think the drops on the way up after HJB can come in handy without relying so much on the bugs drops after sbooster. Also if you take Ice-HJB the long jump softmorph you see after exiting the Ice beam room is +40-50 frames faster (and even easier to do without HJB on) than the method used of freezing the geemers or wall jumping up to the tunnel. All in all, both method have their fair share of trade offs and they are both apart by frames (in TAS), and certainly not by more than 1 sec or 2 in console play if both are well executed.
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 02:53:53 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 09:12:09 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 09:08:27 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 09:05:25 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Here is a strategy you can use for a possible Super Missile drop at the UN Elevator. Its only about 3 frames slower then the fastest strategy which make it the second fastest strategy out there.
If you choose to go High Jump Boots first that is.
I remember the days I use to make .smv files with no rerecords. :sniffle:
If you choose to go High Jump Boots first that is.
I remember the days I use to make .smv files with no rerecords. :sniffle:
Attachment:
Here is the vid comparison for the early PB/delayed PB that Behemoth spoke of. We figured it would be best to compare the 4 .smv in just one clip for better viewing.
Good stuff, 4N6. That drop could come in handy for those doing HJB-Ice, even if it's a missile or supers drop (health wouldn't be necessary).
Good stuff, 4N6. That drop could come in handy for those doing HJB-Ice, even if it's a missile or supers drop (health wouldn't be necessary).
Edit history:
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:31:29 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:28:11 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:27:47 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:25:41 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:23:51 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:22:36 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:22:21 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:11:35 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 09:07:20 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 08:16:15 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 08:10:32 pm
zoast: 2015-02-23 08:00:32 pm
Good stuff! Thanks for the clarifications, new strat, and so forth. Also, I love the split screen vids, so sexy.
The only nitpicking I can say is that in HJ-ice you can jump through the HJ e-tank and quickdrop through the last hole, shooting the geemer, and softmorphing. I don't think that would make up all the difference, but like you mentioned, I do like the drops. I usually do the freeze strat for consistency coming out of ice, I have timed and am aware of that strat especially from my time playing low%, but yeah I might reconsider that choice now that you point it out.
As for ws pb to clear the debris before phantoon, I usually jump a little later than that and try to shoot all 3 blocks below before I land. I hit it pretty well in my new PB. Then again you might be able to do this with the pb strat too. Anyway, I re-timed myself attempting these two using soft morph and now I seem to get 30-3x IGT frame differences roughly? If there are 10-15 lag frames, I might still skip power bombing there... I was curious how much that lagged, so I'm very glad to know! I'll continue testing my execution/re-evaluating my decision during my practices.
Here are some new tourian metroid group strat possibilities I just came up with (my intended 1st room strat can be seen in the second "run-through" in this reel) -
1st room is ~30 frame slower but uses 80 less energy, however is hard to get right, so I don't know if it's worth going for... there may be a better strat still out there. The idea is to not have to worry about energy whatsoever going into tourian, the currently used strat is very good but it would be nice not to be forced to have 100-130 energy entering tourian. 3rd room strat is very close in time to the bounceball group behemoth uses, but it uses quite a bit less energy, which is not as important in 3rd room but still could help if the drops aren't falling right.
Here is a backup strat for pre-bowling, not recommending this for normal runs of course, but it might come in handy if you are in need of health, or perhaps supers. Loses 2 seconds.
The only nitpicking I can say is that in HJ-ice you can jump through the HJ e-tank and quickdrop through the last hole, shooting the geemer, and softmorphing. I don't think that would make up all the difference, but like you mentioned, I do like the drops. I usually do the freeze strat for consistency coming out of ice, I have timed and am aware of that strat especially from my time playing low%, but yeah I might reconsider that choice now that you point it out.
As for ws pb to clear the debris before phantoon, I usually jump a little later than that and try to shoot all 3 blocks below before I land. I hit it pretty well in my new PB. Then again you might be able to do this with the pb strat too. Anyway, I re-timed myself attempting these two using soft morph and now I seem to get 30-3x IGT frame differences roughly? If there are 10-15 lag frames, I might still skip power bombing there... I was curious how much that lagged, so I'm very glad to know! I'll continue testing my execution/re-evaluating my decision during my practices.
Here are some new tourian metroid group strat possibilities I just came up with (my intended 1st room strat can be seen in the second "run-through" in this reel) -
1st room is ~30 frame slower but uses 80 less energy, however is hard to get right, so I don't know if it's worth going for... there may be a better strat still out there. The idea is to not have to worry about energy whatsoever going into tourian, the currently used strat is very good but it would be nice not to be forced to have 100-130 energy entering tourian. 3rd room strat is very close in time to the bounceball group behemoth uses, but it uses quite a bit less energy, which is not as important in 3rd room but still could help if the drops aren't falling right.
Here is a backup strat for pre-bowling, not recommending this for normal runs of course, but it might come in handy if you are in need of health, or perhaps supers. Loses 2 seconds.
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 11:57:32 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 11:48:50 pm
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-23 11:47:46 pm
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Glad you guys like the strat. Also I agree with zoast I love the videos smokey!!!
Oh cool you did the rinka boost. I showed Behemoth it a while ago. I'm glad you figured it out for yourself!!!
Also just so you guys know in UN before HJB unmorphing early after the E-Tank is slower its faster for console to just let Samus bounce. Its only 1 frame faster for TAS to unmorph early and that is because of sub-pixel stuff and whatnot.
Oh cool you did the rinka boost. I showed Behemoth it a while ago. I'm glad you figured it out for yourself!!!
Also just so you guys know in UN before HJB unmorphing early after the E-Tank is slower its faster for console to just let Samus bounce. Its only 1 frame faster for TAS to unmorph early and that is because of sub-pixel stuff and whatnot.
Edit history:
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-25 04:22:44 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-25 04:22:07 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-25 04:20:16 am
lxx4xNx6xxl: 2015-02-24 06:25:47 am
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Quote from zoast:
both rinka boosts are very old strats, i remember msds highlighting the boost out of room 4 like 2 or more years ago, although lioran modified it.
Anyway, I just think it's more useful these days..... I've been using it in my runs for quite some time, now.
Anyway, I just think it's more useful these days..... I've been using it in my runs for quite some time, now.
Yea I showed behemoth about 3 or so years ago before he got his first 29. Looked almost exactly like that instead I jumped to shoot the door and land on it do to the lack of Angle Down.
Yea it takes less damage then that hopper. Also its about 30 frames faster ta boot. I'm glad to see it being used is all.
Thanks guys! Yeah these vids have their charm, certainly very useful for strats comparisons, that way we can see in action how much time we are saving/losing instead of 'frames' language :P. Yeah agree, no need for the constant reminder about who discovered what, old timers and contributors know who they are, I've seen people talk about my contributions w/o mentioning me; I've learned to move on from that and just get to the actual discussion of the game.
HJB-Ice/Ice-HJB: Thanks for the heads up. I think it's actually faster what you mentioned all along in ET's room, that way you get the drop and eliminate the knock back damage from the geemer. Also if you take HJB-Ice (HJB equipped) I highly suggest to not use the long jump-softmorph to the tunnel because it's hard as hell. You might end up screwing it and waste even more time, unless you develop some level of consistency for sure.
Group strats: Wow those look very stylish. I really like the one you did from 1:33-1:42, it looks easier to do, at least for me. Also the 3rd metroid room looks very stylish, just like the first room by letting the last metroid almost latch onto you w/o moving. I've had a hard time trying to do the bounce ball that Behemoth does for some reason, but this looks better for me so I can time correctly the bounce ball or even a long jump to the platform before the door (if it is possible).
Pre-bowling alley: that's very cool. Have you had some better success with more health here? Judging by this video alone it could be helpful for ammo drops though, for health I probably might use the pipe bugs. (I think the minimum is +125?).
HJB-Ice/Ice-HJB: Thanks for the heads up. I think it's actually faster what you mentioned all along in ET's room, that way you get the drop and eliminate the knock back damage from the geemer. Also if you take HJB-Ice (HJB equipped) I highly suggest to not use the long jump-softmorph to the tunnel because it's hard as hell. You might end up screwing it and waste even more time, unless you develop some level of consistency for sure.
Group strats: Wow those look very stylish. I really like the one you did from 1:33-1:42, it looks easier to do, at least for me. Also the 3rd metroid room looks very stylish, just like the first room by letting the last metroid almost latch onto you w/o moving. I've had a hard time trying to do the bounce ball that Behemoth does for some reason, but this looks better for me so I can time correctly the bounce ball or even a long jump to the platform before the door (if it is possible).
Pre-bowling alley: that's very cool. Have you had some better success with more health here? Judging by this video alone it could be helpful for ammo drops though, for health I probably might use the pipe bugs. (I think the minimum is +125?).
I've seen some SRL runners using a strategy to farm both crabs after WS lake when returning from WS and I realized that it is slower than the one I'm using so I decided to post a comparison video. The difference is just around 20 frames in the video, but I've seen some runners (I'm no exception) messing up the turn around to quickly fall through the door on the bottom which makes the other strategy also safer. Anyway, watch and decide for yourselves.
Obs.: I used frame advance in both videos due to not having a controller to play (mine is broken), but I optimized both the same way. You can destroy the breakable block on the top area by shooting it diagonaly as soon as you go up the slope on the ground, but it's not required, it will only alow you to save some frames by jumping from the the next ledge, but you can just fall using the backdown trick to avoid the metallic stuff on the way.
https://mega.co.nz/#!2hJgRR5T!IwfFS6C-hnySyKpjyseMcvrEccTwVtJWWJKLwra77Gg
Obs.: I used frame advance in both videos due to not having a controller to play (mine is broken), but I optimized both the same way. You can destroy the breakable block on the top area by shooting it diagonaly as soon as you go up the slope on the ground, but it's not required, it will only alow you to save some frames by jumping from the the next ledge, but you can just fall using the backdown trick to avoid the metallic stuff on the way.
https://mega.co.nz/#!2hJgRR5T!IwfFS6C-hnySyKpjyseMcvrEccTwVtJWWJKLwra77Gg
This is a very basic question in the midst of a conversation with heavyweights, but I hope someone can provide some insight.
Can anyone explain why the game randomly seems to ignore button inputs? Specifically the jump coming out of the wave beam room to hit the furthest left part of the spikes and thus take no damage. I'm pretty consistent at it, but it feels like for no reason at all it will just ignore the jump input and I'll run right off the platform. Also, seemingly random occurrences where the game stops responding to shoulder button input. I ran into it last night during practicing the ledge grabs exiting the wave room area. I would end up just spin jumping and my down angle to break the spin would be completely ignored. This has cropped up in other areas at different times too. (I'm running the old old spazer/early ice KPDR route, if that helps illustrate where I'm talking about.)
I don't think there's anything wrong with my controller as the buttons respond normally if I just sit there and press them. It seems that through the course of playing, the game gets bogged down in my attempts to tell it to do things and just discards certain inputs. Does that make any sense? I know about the shooting delay with things like supers and missiles, so I'm not talking about that. I'm mostly just confused as to why it drops inputs while I'm moving.
Can anyone explain why the game randomly seems to ignore button inputs? Specifically the jump coming out of the wave beam room to hit the furthest left part of the spikes and thus take no damage. I'm pretty consistent at it, but it feels like for no reason at all it will just ignore the jump input and I'll run right off the platform. Also, seemingly random occurrences where the game stops responding to shoulder button input. I ran into it last night during practicing the ledge grabs exiting the wave room area. I would end up just spin jumping and my down angle to break the spin would be completely ignored. This has cropped up in other areas at different times too. (I'm running the old old spazer/early ice KPDR route, if that helps illustrate where I'm talking about.)
I don't think there's anything wrong with my controller as the buttons respond normally if I just sit there and press them. It seems that through the course of playing, the game gets bogged down in my attempts to tell it to do things and just discards certain inputs. Does that make any sense? I know about the shooting delay with things like supers and missiles, so I'm not talking about that. I'm mostly just confused as to why it drops inputs while I'm moving.
Quote from Mishrak:
Can anyone explain why the game randomly seems to ignore button inputs? Specifically the jump coming out of the wave beam room to hit the furthest left part of the spikes and thus take no damage. I'm pretty consistent at it, but it feels like for no reason at all it will just ignore the jump input and I'll run right off the platform.
If your controller is ok then the only reason for the game to ignore an input would be lag frames, but there are no lag frames in that area so you're definitely pressing jump at least one frame too late. I don't know if you play on console or emulator and what kind of TV you use, but that can make a difference from when you press the button to when the game responds. I've been playing on emulator and I know the game responds 1 or 2 frames after I press the button. This is a pain cause I have to press the button earlier than I actually should and as we go for visual to, for example, jump from a ledge, pressing the button when you actually should will be too late and Samus will run off of the ledge. Frame perfect tricks like the cwj on WS lake are even harder, mainly cause there's a frame perfect jump from the door that you do by visual and the cwj itself that you also go for visual. This trick is a pain for me because of the emulator and sometimes I have to stick to the bomb jump to cross the lake.
Quote from Mishrak:
Also, seemingly random occurrences where the game stops responding to shoulder button input. I ran into it last night during practicing the ledge grabs exiting the wave room area. I would end up just spin jumping and my down angle to break the spin would be completely ignored. This has cropped up in other areas at different times too.
When you spinjump you usually hold forward + jump button, when you press the angle button Samus will only unspin if you release either the dpad (forward) or the jump button, so the only reason for Samus not to unspin is that you're not releasing one of these buttons. If you're doing everything right, then the problem is probably the controller. Now, if you're using a keyboard to play, there is usually a limit number of buttons you can press/hold at the same time or something like that iirc.
Edit: Oh yeah, you can also break the spin by changing the direction of the jump, even if you're holding Forward + Jump + Angle Down/Up, if you change the direction Samus will unspin and turn around.
Quote from Reeve:
I don't know if you play on console or emulator and what kind of TV you use, but that can make a difference from when you press the button to when the game responds.
I'm playing on an SNES with a flat panel LCD that probably has a crappy refresh time now that you mention that. That would actually explain a lot. I suppose it might be a good idea to locate a decent CRT? I never thought I'd want to use one again.
Quote from Reeve:
When you spinjump you usually hold forward + jump button, when you press the angle button Samus will only unspin if you release either the dpad (forward) or the jump button, so the only reason for Samus not to unspin is that you're not releasing one of these buttons. If you're doing everything right, then the problem is probably the controller.
That explains it. I must have never realized that holding forward or jump would prevent the breaking of the spin. In all likelihood I'm holding forward there.
Thanks so much for your reply, Reeve.
Quote from Mishrak:
I'm playing on an SNES with a flat panel LCD that probably has a crappy refresh time now that you mention that. That would actually explain a lot. I suppose it might be a good idea to locate a decent CRT? I never thought I'd want to use one again.
A friend recently changed his LCD for an old CRT after seeing the article below. He got all euphoric by how his gameplay improved because of it, so I strongly recomend you to try it.
https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/CRT_Television
Quote from Mishrak:
Thanks so much for your reply, Reeve.
Anytime, dude!