Skyrim (Console + PC Thread)

2012-04-02 07:24:20 am

WOW.

Quote from Caelint:

I thought about using Alduin that way, just not exactly here. What I found is that you can actually ride Alduin for a few seconds when he flies away, thus landing you outside Helgen. I never managed to stay on Alduin long enough to stay inside Helgen closer to Helgen keep. It would've been awesome tho Sad

I'm glad you found something similar.

Not to sure about actually riding Alduin, but there might be the possibility that he might be able to bump the character into other directions I can hit the glitch a little more consistantly now.

Chrno

2012-04-11 02:05:32 pm

WOW.

This made me chuckle: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/62389156?page=1

Caelint

2012-04-12 06:36:38 am

The level of ignorance outside SDA is quite amusing when it comes to Skyrim speedrunning. 99% of people still think that the 2:16 by Bethesda is the fastest time. Cheesy

These threads are fun to read, but also makes me quite sad, I thought the popularity of the game will help towards speedrunning this game not the opposite. Guess I was wrong.

Scepheo

2012-04-12 10:25:04 am

Quote from Chrno:

Is Sovngarde actually on the map (even outside of the world boundries) or is it completly a whole other load because I might be able to trigger it to load if the trigger accesable using an OOB glitch.

Sovngarde and Skuldafn are completely different worlds from the regular world. So no, there is no way to get there except by triggering the Sovngarde portal and the flight with Odahviing, respectively.

Quote from Chrno:

Oh well, I'm looking into ways to skip/speed up the peace council but so far to no avail. The council is triggered when you sit in the seat so the most logical think to do would be to make the game think you are sitting down when you are in fact not, a little bit like the doormounting glitch where the game think you are still mounted on the hourse. From there you would be able to bump into the talkers around the table and speed up the whole process.

I think our best bet lies in making the game think that we've completed the civil war questline. As far as I could find, this is checked for during the conversation with the Jarl of Whiterun. However, the game doesn't actually check whether you've completed the questline, it merely checks if either Winterhold or Hjaalmarch has switched owners. So if you can get either of these to switch owner faster than the Counsil takes...

Apart from that, I'm doing some glitch hunting using the Creation Kit. The later quests in the main questline are a lot more foolproof. Not so much due to better coding, but more due to the fact that there are no objects that trigger quest stages (unless I'm missing something, of course) anymore. I doubt I'm going to find any skips past the Embassy (which has the dossiers that activate quest stages).

[quote="Chrno"]Is Sovngarde actually on the map (even outside of the world boundries) or is it completly a whole other load because I might be able to trigger it to load if the trigger accesable using an OOB glitch.[/quote]
Sovngarde and Skuldafn are completely different worlds from the regular world. So no, there is no way to get there except by triggering the Sovngarde portal and the flight with Odahviing, respectively.

[quote="Chrno"]Oh well, I'm looking into ways to skip/speed up the peace council but so far to no avail. The council is triggered when you sit in the seat so the most logical think to do would be to make the game think you are sitting down when you are in fact not, a little bit like the doormounting glitch where the game think you are still mounted on the hourse. From there you would be able to bump into the talkers around the table and speed up the whole process.[/quote]
I think our best bet lies in making the game think that we've completed the civil war questline. As far as I could find, this is checked for during the conversation with the Jarl of Whiterun. However, the game doesn't actually check whether you've completed the questline, it merely checks if either Winterhold or Hjaalmarch has switched owners. So if you can get either of these to switch owner faster than the Counsil takes...

Apart from that, I'm doing some glitch hunting using the Creation Kit. The later quests in the main questline are a lot more foolproof. Not so much due to better coding, but more due to the fact that there are no objects that trigger quest stages (unless I'm missing something, of course) anymore. I doubt I'm going to find any skips past the Embassy (which has the dossiers that activate quest stages).

R

2012-04-12 02:27:02 pm

Perhaps a really stupid question, but is the trigger your physical model sitting in the chair, or would an object placed on the chair activate the council? Basically was wondering if you could do something as simple as drag something heavy onto the chair and trigger the peace council without sitting down. Probably really dumb idea but just thought I'd ask.

Chrno

2012-04-12 03:35:27 pm

WOW.

Quote from R:

Perhaps a really stupid question, but is the trigger your physical model sitting in the chair, or would an object placed on the chair activate the council? Basically was wondering if you could do something as simple as drag something heavy onto the chair and trigger the peace council without sitting down. Probably really dumb idea but just thought I'd ask.

Good idea, but I think it's triggered as soon as you press A. The game needs to recognise that something is actually 'sitting' on it, and that is a seperate value altogether in the game's code if I'm not mistaken.

Reaver

2012-04-12 03:47:40 pm

Quote from Chrno:

Good idea, but I think it's triggered as soon as you press A. The game needs to recognise that something is actually 'sitting' on it, and that is a seperate value altogether in the game's code if I'm not mistaken.

How broken is the physics in this game? For example, if you stuck a fairly large object on the chair and sat down, would it force you off the chair or would you end up passing through the object and sitting in the chair? Was thinking maybe if you stuck something on the chair it may try to sit down triggering the start of the meeting, then stand up if it can't pass through the object.

Caelint

Edit history:

Caelint: 2012-04-12 04:02:56 pm

2012-04-12 03:50:23 pm

If you're quick enough you can stand up after triggering the peace talks, but you can't do anything, the game treats you like you're still sitting. It's a heavily scripted part unfortunately. Placing objects didn't work either (and I stacked a lot of them lol), I didn't manage to trigger the council or force myself off the chair.

Quote from Reaver:

How broken is the physics in this game? For example, if you stuck a fairly large object on the chair and sat down, would it force you off the chair or would you end up passing through the object and sitting in the chair?

The canned animations (sitting down for example) are smashing through everything in their paths, they are treated just like solid objects by the physics. The items are moving out of the way all the time not the characters.

Reaver

2012-04-12 04:00:24 pm

Cheers for the info. Was hoping you could trigger the talk and run off to continue doing other stuff. Well I'm fresh out of ideas.

Scepheo

2012-04-13 03:08:04 am

The game basically asks the player whether he is sitting in that exact chair. So putting something else in doesn't work. As soon as the player sits down, the game sets the quest stage to 60, which runs (yeah, literally) "Game.DisablePlayerControls()". So yeah, this sucks. Also, they made sure to disable giving your follower any commands (something I hadn't even thought of yet). And the quest doesn't give you back control until stage 300, which is triggered after the bit where you get a reward if you've helped your side. So unless we find a quest that also takes away and gives back control, and we somehow manage to get that to trigger during the peace council, there's no way we're gonna be running around in this bit.

Also, is the fastest "route" through the council already known?

Caelint

Edit history:

Caelint: 2012-04-13 06:06:52 am

2012-04-13 06:06:01 am

Quote from Scepheo:

Also, is the fastest "route" through the council already known?

No, can you check dialogue trees in the Creation Kit? That would be great. Two different routes are needed tho, one with the least amount of dialogues (the length of the sentences doesn't matter just the amount of them) for quisave/load spamming (if that method is acceptable) on PC, and the shortest conversation for consoles.

Scepheo

2012-04-13 08:28:25 am

Yeah, you can. I'd suggest you download it too as it's free and the basic "look at quest" stuff isn't that hard actually. I'll have a look at the dialogue but as there's plenty of conditions in there (are you in the Legion/Sons faction, have you traded cities etcetera) it might take a while to find a shortest route. The PC route should be the easier one to find, as there's no easy way of checking the actual (spoken) length of any given piece of dialogue.

Heidrage

2012-04-15 08:01:51 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

Quote from Chrno:

This made me chuckle: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/62389156?page=1

Should some one post the YT link of our current best run just to make a point?

Caelint

2012-04-16 05:56:03 am

I just checked my YT inbox, and I got a message from IGN (pretty big gaming site) a month ago saying they want to repost my run on their network. I don't know if I should do that, it's just a practice run after all. That would certainly help people realize there are Skyrim speedruns, but too much attention could hurt as well. I don't want plating patched lol.

Scepheo

Edit history:

Scepheo: 2012-04-16 09:53:33 am

2012-04-16 09:53:05 am

Considering that plating is a glitch in the physics engine, I doubt there's any realistic chance of it being patched any time soon. Especially since it's not at all specific to plates. So I'd have it shown.

I'm still not done looking at the dialogue of the council, but I did find out that there's some randomness built in. Which makes it suck even more. I'm increasingly happier with the fact that I'm planning a segmented run. Also, does anyone know if you can make the jump past the drawbridge in the Ratways without a plate? Because if you can't, I think it might be faster to luck-manipulate my way past the expert-gate below it.

And I'm gonna have do do a few playthroughs soon to see if I can find some way to deal frost damage en-route, due to Alduin's 25% weakness to frost. Which, again, may involve getting really lucky loot. I'm starting to think a well-optimised segmented run might clock in below the one-hour mark.

Related edit: is the optimal race already known?

Caelint

Edit history:

Caelint: 2012-04-16 10:50:51 am

Caelint: 2012-04-16 10:47:20 am

2012-04-16 10:39:44 am

Quote from Scepheo:

I'm increasingly happier with the fact that I'm planning a segmented run.

Are you planning a run on the PC version? With the 'recent' optimization patches (using 4GB ram for example), you should check if doormounting became stabler, even tho I doubt that.

Quote from Scepheo:

Also, does anyone know if you can make the jump past the drawbridge in the Ratways without a plate?

It is possible, check part 3 of my practice run, but it's SO close it must be race dependant. I think the plate is only used for SS consistency.

Quote from Scepheo:

Related edit: is the optimal race already known?

High elf is the fastest, I found no evidence of any khajiit speed bonus others suspected. High elf height is 1.08, which affects running speed and melee damage. Only orcs come close with 1.045, and I don't think that even the pretty decent orc racial can compensate for a ~3.34% loss of running speed and/or melee damage. As long as running is such a big part of the run, I consider high elf the optimal.

[quote="Scepheo"]I'm increasingly happier with the fact that I'm planning a segmented run.[/quote]
Are you planning a run on the PC version? With the 'recent' optimization patches (using 4GB ram for example), you should check if doormounting became stabler, even tho I doubt that.

[quote="Scepheo"]Also, does anyone know if you can make the jump past the drawbridge in the Ratways without a plate?[/quote]
It is possible, check part 3 of my practice run, but it's SO close it must be race dependant. I think the plate is only used for SS consistency.
[hidden]http://youtube.com/watch?v=f52vOMdj-WU&hd=1[/hidden]

[quote="Scepheo"]Related edit: is the optimal race already known?[/quote]
High elf is the fastest, I found no evidence of any khajiit speed bonus others suspected. High elf height is 1.08, which affects running speed and melee damage. Only orcs come close with 1.045, and I don't think that even the pretty decent orc racial can compensate for a ~3.34% loss of running speed and/or melee damage. As long as running is such a big part of the run, I consider high elf the optimal.

FlamingMage

2012-04-16 01:30:14 pm

Yes, High elf is optimal. Anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't timed the length you spend running relative to the length you spend in battle.

Chrno

Edit history:

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:11:43 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:07:57 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:07:45 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:07:34 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:07:29 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:07:11 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 04:01:47 pm

Chrno: 2012-04-16 03:59:52 pm

2012-04-16 03:59:26 pm

WOW.

Quote from Caelint:

I just checked my YT inbox, and I got a message from IGN (pretty big gaming site) a month ago saying they want to repost my run on their network. I don't know if I should do that, it's just a practice run after all. That would certainly help people realize there are Skyrim speedruns, but too much attention could hurt as well. I don't want plating patched lol.

I know what you mean, with every update I have been scarred to update in fear of patching out known glitches. It's totally up to you; the coverage for our little community would be great and the coverage for you as a runner would be awesome too. I just would not want 10 year-olds running around claiming they found the sequence breaks when you did!

I would tell them that there are better runs on the way and not allow them to use that one, after all, one or two new things have been found since that practise run - But it's your run and totally your choice!

Quote from Scepheo:

Related edit: is the optimal race already known?

I personally think that High Elf is optimal, but one or two people have been running some other races. I happen to remember Ilseroth used a different race in his 1:14 but I don't know if it made it faster or not. I mean with all the running and torch-glitching you have to do, the High Elf will most likely give a higher advantage anyway.

Talking of Doormounting, would there be any way to find out why the game crashes when you activate it? I'd really like to find a way of activating it without saving and reloading.

Edit: http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/120/1200215p1.html BITCH PLEASE.

[quote="Caelint"]I just checked my YT inbox, and I got a message from IGN (pretty big gaming site) a month ago saying they want to repost my run on their network. I don't know if I should do that, it's just a practice run after all. That would certainly help people realize there are Skyrim speedruns, but too much attention could hurt as well. I don't want plating patched lol.[/quote]
I know what you mean, with every update I have been scarred to update in fear of patching out known glitches. It's totally up to you; the coverage for our little community would be great and the coverage for you as a runner would be awesome too. I just would not want 10 year-olds running around claiming they found the sequence breaks when you did!

I would tell them that there are better runs on the way and not allow them to use that one, after all, one or two new things have been found since that practise run - But it's your run and totally your choice!
[quote="Scepheo"]Related edit: is the optimal race already known?[/quote]
I personally think that High Elf is optimal, but one or two people have been running some other races. I happen to remember Ilseroth used a different race in his 1:14 but I don't know if it made it faster or not. I mean with all the running and torch-glitching you have to do, the High Elf will most likely give a higher advantage anyway.

Talking of Doormounting, would there be any way to find out why the game crashes when you activate it? I'd really like to find a way of activating it without saving and reloading.

Edit: [url]http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/120/1200215p1.html[/url] BITCH PLEASE.

Scepheo

2012-04-17 05:34:32 am

Quote from Caelint:

I found no evidence of any khajiit speed bonus others suspected.

There are none. Seriously, why do people claim these sort of things when you can look in the code and see it's not there. Even the UESP wiki has pages that say stuff like "it's not sure if this is intended or accidental" (first that comes to mind: dwarven sphere/spider/centurion weakness to shock).

Also, did anyone know that if you save whilst running, then load, you may end up further than you were when you saved? I've managed to use this to glitch past the wall that Alduin smashes in Helgen. I'm going to test with this some more, perhaps even plating will become obsolete.

Caelint

2012-04-17 07:00:05 am

Quote from Chrno:

I know what you mean, with every update I have been scarred to update in fear of patching out known glitches. It's totally up to you; the coverage for our little community would be great and the coverage for you as a runner would be awesome too. I just would not want 10 year-olds running around claiming they found the sequence breaks when you did!

I would tell them that there are better runs on the way and not allow them to use that one, after all, one or two new things have been found since that practise run - But it's your run and totally your choice!

My thoughts exactly, and that's why I won't let them use it. The possible negative effects of a gaming site that big far outweighs the positive ones. I did this run for fun and for people who appreciate it here at SDA, not for trolls and 10 year olds.

Quote from Scepheo:

Also, did anyone know that if you save whilst running, then load, you may end up further than you were when you saved? I've managed to use this to glitch past the wall that Alduin smashes in Helgen. I'm going to test with this some more, perhaps even plating will become obsolete.

Sounds too good to be true, that would make SS (with resets) almost trivial.

[quote="Chrno"]I know what you mean, with every update I have been scarred to update in fear of patching out known glitches. It's totally up to you; the coverage for our little community would be great and the coverage for you as a runner would be awesome too. I just would not want 10 year-olds running around claiming they found the sequence breaks when you did!

I would tell them that there are better runs on the way and not allow them to use that one, after all, one or two new things have been found since that practise run - But it's your run and totally your choice![/quote]
My thoughts exactly, and that's why I won't let them use it. The possible negative effects of a gaming site that big far outweighs the positive ones. I did this run for fun and for people who appreciate it here at SDA, not for trolls and 10 year olds.

[quote="Scepheo"]Also, did anyone know that if you save whilst running, then load, you may end up further than you were when you saved? I've managed to use this to glitch past the wall that Alduin smashes in Helgen. I'm going to test with this some more, perhaps even plating will become obsolete.[/quote]
Sounds too good to be true, that would make SS (with resets) almost trivial.

Scepheo

2012-04-18 05:09:56 am

Haven't been able to use it to glitch past anything but the wall in Helgen so far. Bummer.

Heidrage

2012-04-19 11:05:44 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Quote from Chrno:

Edit: http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/120/1200215p1.html BITCH PLEASE.

Damn, we are not known enough around the world yet. We much become bigger. But once SDA produces a run, we will have the bigger dick Wink

ShadowWraith

2012-04-23 08:56:15 am

.

That was made when the game was released... Check the date. >_>

ZE3Z

2012-05-06 09:02:06 am

Im coming close to passing the one hour marker for my single segment run on master difficulty ^_^ the hint is I remain level one the entire run and use only scrolls for every fight. The way I get the scrolls while keeping my time fast will be my lil secret. If someone has already a single segment run under an hour please tell me and just maybe I'll share my lil secrets =P

Neviutz

2012-05-06 02:54:35 pm

Speed is all that matters.

Quote from ZE3Z:

Im coming close to passing the one hour marker for my single segment run on master difficulty ^_^ the hint is I remain level one the entire run and use only scrolls for every fight. The way I get the scrolls while keeping my time fast will be my lil secret. If someone has already a single segment run under an hour please tell me and just maybe I'll share my lil secrets =P

I don't see the reason for telling us that you're not going to tell us..

Anyhow, I haven't played the game/followed this thread in ages but if I recall correctly, someone mentioned on the earlier pages that Alduin level scaling only kicks in after level 10 so staying at level 1 would still be the same as if you hit level 3 or 4 and if I'm not mistaken that is the only fight to be fought during the run or was there something else that I forgot about?