Skies Of Arcadia Legends...GC

2009-05-13 04:55:15 am

THE GAME!!

I'm afraid I can provide you with any tips, but I'd just like to wish you well with this speedrun. I'd love to see a speedrun of this epic masterpiece of a game!

Zyre

2009-06-12 05:52:58 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Yeah, I haven't updated this like I wanted to, but here I am.

I haven't given up yet. However, I'm still trying to record the first segment. I've had two successful electri box drops while recording, but neither were optimal. The first one I ended up with Aika taking a couple of critical hits in the first battle, then getting into an encounter after the second forced battle, and failing to escape twice in a row in that encounter. To top it off, the boss killed Aika (but not before she got a use of the electri box on him). Some would say that I should have kept it, but I stubbornly decided to rerecord.

The second drop came and all was well up to the boss. Then, one of my suspicions about spell boxes came true: the electri box broke on the first use. So now I'm rethinking how the spell boxes work. Basically, the spell boxes start with a % chance of breaking. Each use of the box increases the chance of breaking the next time used. Some boxes' chance of breaking increases more per use than others (example: Riselem box breaks after about 3-4 uses, while Electri can last up to about 8). I'll probably have more evidence the more I use these spell boxes.

So that's where I'm at. I've got some free time tonight, so I'll be working on recording that segment again.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering why I didn't just finish the segment on that second drop. I was planning on using the same box for the boss in the first dungeon.

Yeah, I haven't updated this like I wanted to, but here I am.

I haven't given up yet.  However, I'm still trying to record the first segment.  I've had two successful electri box drops while recording, but neither were optimal.  The first one I ended up with Aika taking a couple of critical hits in the first battle, then getting into an encounter after the second forced battle, and failing to escape twice in a row in that encounter.  To top it off, the boss killed Aika (but not before she got a use of the electri box on him).  Some would say that I should have kept it, but I stubbornly decided to rerecord.

The second drop came and all was well up to the boss.  Then, one of my suspicions about spell boxes came true: the electri box broke on the first use.  So now I'm rethinking how the spell boxes work.  Basically, the spell boxes start with a % chance of breaking.  Each use of the box increases the chance of breaking the next time used.  Some boxes' chance of breaking increases more per use than others (example: Riselem box breaks after about 3-4 uses, while Electri can last up to about 8).  I'll probably have more evidence the more I use these spell boxes.

So that's where I'm at.  I've got some free time tonight, so I'll be working on recording that segment again.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering why I didn't just finish the segment on that second drop.  I was planning on using the same box for the boss in the first dungeon.

lordofflames

2009-07-28 11:04:36 am

Hey I have noticed you haven't said anything for a while, I'm hoping that you will have a big update for us all here soon. I'm excited to see this game get done!

Zyre

2009-09-08 08:50:05 am

The Speedrunning Teacher

So yeah, I haven't updated in a while. Part of it is my own laziness, and part of it is just life.

Can't say that I've made any progress since my last post, as I've been distracted with a few other games of late. But now that I've gotten away from SoAL for a while, I'm ready to get back to work on it. So expect to hear more from me soon!

AmazingAmpharos

2009-09-09 02:31:48 pm

I should have posted this months ago, but as we progressed further in the game, it became clear very quickly that this game is not going to end up at a decent time at all. The thing is that you can have Pirate's Wrath by Antonio II just fine, but it does way less damage than you'd hope. The effects of being underleveled are really harsh in this game, and magic, including boxes, becomes less of a patch to that problem as you progress in the game (due to the way the formulas work, magic is at its best early in the game). Of course, Antonio II was beatable like that, but it would be a long and grueling fight... which would basically be the story of every boss fight with it being plausible that you'd start running into bosses who were borderline impossible at the lowest of levels. I do mean by "long and grueling" that "these fights are going to be adding hours to the game we didn't expect" long.

This game under 10 hours is probably a pipe dream, and it may be optimal to fight a somewhat healthy number of random encounters that you can hopefully finish quickly. As I think about it, stacking up on learning silver (for Riselem, which you are definitely going to need since Paranta Seeds from Ilchymis are obviously your best hope of passing the endgame in an even remotely respectable time) might have the double benefit of giving you Eterni which you could luck abuse to help you build experience (and, if you are super ardent about it, maybe Eternes early enough for it to be useful? That is a ton of magic experience, unfortunately). Another concern ends up being that a good speedrun of this game might not be that big of a deviation from normal play; that's not encouraging for what's going to be hoping to become the longest run on the site...

If there's some element to this game that we've missed that lets you beat midgame bosses quickly at low levels, that would be great, but I'm doubtful that we did miss anything like that.

I should have posted this months ago, but as we progressed further in the game, it became clear very quickly that this game is not going to end up at a decent time at all. The thing is that you can have Pirate's Wrath by Antonio II just fine, but it does way less damage than you'd hope. The effects of being underleveled are really harsh in this game, and magic, including boxes, becomes less of a patch to that problem as you progress in the game (due to the way the formulas work, magic is at its best early in the game). Of course, Antonio II was beatable like that, but it would be a long and grueling fight... which would basically be the story of every boss fight with it being plausible that you'd start running into bosses who were borderline impossible at the lowest of levels. I do mean by "long and grueling" that "these fights are going to be adding hours to the game we didn't expect" long.

This game under 10 hours is probably a pipe dream, and it may be optimal to fight a somewhat healthy number of random encounters that you can hopefully finish quickly. As I think about it, stacking up on learning silver (for Riselem, which you are definitely going to need since Paranta Seeds from Ilchymis are obviously your best hope of passing the endgame in an even remotely respectable time) might have the double benefit of giving you Eterni which you could luck abuse to help you build experience (and, if you are super ardent about it, maybe Eternes early enough for it to be useful? That is a ton of magic experience, unfortunately). Another concern ends up being that a good speedrun of this game might not be that big of a deviation from normal play; that's not encouraging for what's going to be hoping to become the longest run on the site...

If there's some element to this game that we've missed that lets you beat midgame bosses quickly at low levels, that would be great, but I'm doubtful that we did miss anything like that.

Zyre

2009-09-09 02:53:05 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Well, I was never even considering a sub-10 hour run of the game, more like a sub-20. Sub-15 would be fantastic though...

Now that you mention it, all those bosses around that Antonio II point of the game (basically, all the bosses you fight before you get the Delphinius) are gonna be long. Once you get the Delphinius, I don't think there is that many SP between Pirate's Wrath and Prophecy, but I'd have to look and see. Prophecy does require that the SP bar be full, but it is a nice extra, powerful hit.

I'll have to look at what random fights I can one-shot the foes with. Pyres to start with on the really low level beginners, but more planning is gonna be needed for the rest of them. It sounds like I won't be able to run from a lot of battles to start with if I'm gonna need all those levels.

Seems more planning will be required.

Zyre

2009-09-21 10:32:03 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Finally! I have some news. I have the first segment recorded now. It isn't optimal, but considering that it has taken numerous recording and resets just to get that Electri Box to drop and not break on the first two uses, I'm going to take it. I can attribute the mistakes to the excitement that I was feeling when I got the drop in the first place.

And for now, the plan is to only fight the battles that I can one-shot the foes in and run from battles where I can't. This should help with all of the magic experience that I'll need, and also net gold and exp in the process.

Off to continue planning!

Toothache

2009-09-22 01:48:43 pm

Let the music play!

Hey good news. Good luck with the run, can't wait to see it once it is finished.

Zyre

2009-10-19 03:12:35 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

A little progress to report here, for those still interested.

I've made some headway on segments 2 and 3, almost to the point that I could record them if I really wanted to right now. There isn't too much planning at this point since item availability is limited, but soon I'll need to start planning for much, much farther ahead in the game. Especially with the mystery merchant since he only shows up at certain locations at different points of the game.

As for the segments themselves, 2 just needs to be practiced some more. I can navigate the Shrine very easily, and there is one battle that you are forced to start, but can run from. I also know what monsters I can OHKO and which to run from.

Segment 3 needs a little more planning, but is good overall. The highlight will be taking down the Shrine's Sentinel in 4 turns total. Some luck manip required, but 4 turns.

Something that has caught my attention: Cutlass Fury could potentially be more useful than Pirate's Wrath, at least until endgame fights. Since Cutlass Fury deals about 2k damage per use for 7 SP, and Pirate's Wrath deals about 5.5k for 21 SP, using Cutlass Fury for 3 turns deals a slight bit more damage total than Pirate's Wrath. The only downside is that I would need 7 SP per turn, and it uses up Vyse's turn. Seems that there is a debate about which is better for the endgame stuff, but perhaps this info will help out more with the midgame boss battles. What do you guys think?

A little progress to report here, for those still interested.

I've made some headway on segments 2 and 3, almost to the point that I could record them if I really wanted to right now.  There isn't too much planning at this point since item availability is limited, but soon I'll need to start planning for much, much farther ahead in the game.  Especially with the mystery merchant since he only shows up at certain locations at different points of the game.

As for the segments themselves, 2 just needs to be practiced some more.  I can navigate the Shrine very easily, and there is one battle that you are forced to start, but can run from.  I also know what monsters I can OHKO and which to run from.

Segment 3 needs a little more planning, but is good overall.  The highlight will be taking down the Shrine's Sentinel in 4 turns total.  Some luck manip required, but 4 turns.

Something that has caught my attention: Cutlass Fury could potentially be more useful than Pirate's Wrath, at least until endgame fights.  Since Cutlass Fury deals about 2k damage per use for 7 SP, and Pirate's Wrath deals about 5.5k for 21 SP, using Cutlass Fury for 3 turns deals a slight bit more damage total than Pirate's Wrath.  The only downside is that I would need 7 SP per turn, and it uses up Vyse's turn.  Seems that there is a debate about which is better for the endgame stuff, but perhaps this info will help out more with the midgame boss battles.  What do you guys think?

Zyre

2009-11-05 01:54:37 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Progress Report:

I'm making some good headway on how to optimize the run. Playing through the game as if I was speedrunning it helps a great amount in the planning. I'm up to about the 6th or 7th segment now (Just freed the pirates from the Colosseum) and making good time.

Found a couple of playlists on Youtube of playthroughs of the game, one with a time of around 36 hours (Longplays.com) and another with nearly 22 hours (it has 132 videos, each between 5 to 11 minutes long). Considering that these two playthroughs are taking their time and playing somewhat casually, I'm very confident that not only will this run get under 20 hours, but that there seems to be a really great chance of completing it in less than 15. That's some good motivation right there.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2009-11-05 03:50:25 pm

2009-11-05 03:29:06 pm

Good good. I take it you'll be planning a fair bit of the game before starting the real thing for seg#2?

Re Cutlass Fury v's Pirate's Wrath, I think you should be using PW on any enemy that has more than a PW's-worth of HP left. Bear in mind that while it's about 500HP difference over three rounds in favour of CF, that's two turns you could spend focusing between 4 and 8SP (depending on Vyse's level), using items, attacking etc. For that matter, do bosses act differently when they reach critical HP?

Actually, hold that thought. IIRC anyone using Focus performs their move before any S-Moves. This would probably cause a problem or two with PW at lower levels, as there's a chance of maxing out SP before you do the move, seeing as the party's max SP is based on their total SP levels (which in turn is based on base level). With that in mind, farming EXP with Lambda Burst or Rain of Swords in certain areas might be an idea if you're close to raising the SP level shortly before a boss.

Any thoughts to dealing with bosses that have Sacrulen (such as the one in Yafutoma)? I always used to deal with them by spamming focus moves and getting Crew specials out in quick succession to minimise the number of moves the boss had, but the smaller your crew, obviously the less effective this would be. Plus I believe you can't skip a Crew special as you can normal S-Moves.

Good good. I take it you'll be planning a fair bit of the game before starting the real thing for seg#2?

Re Cutlass Fury v's Pirate's Wrath, I think you should be using PW on any enemy that has more than a PW's-worth of HP left. Bear in mind that while it's about 500HP difference over three rounds in favour of CF, that's two turns you could spend focusing between 4 and 8SP (depending on Vyse's level), using items, attacking etc. For that matter, do bosses act differently when they reach critical HP?

Actually, hold that thought. IIRC anyone using Focus performs their move before any S-Moves. This would probably cause a problem or two with PW at lower levels, as there's a chance of maxing out SP before you do the move, seeing as the party's max SP is based on their total SP levels (which in turn is based on base level). With that in mind, farming EXP with Lambda Burst or Rain of Swords in certain areas might be an idea if you're close to raising the SP level shortly before a boss.

Any thoughts to dealing with bosses that have Sacrulen (such as the one in Yafutoma)? I always used to deal with them by spamming focus moves and getting Crew specials out in quick succession to minimise the number of moves the boss had, but the smaller your crew, obviously the less effective this would be. Plus I believe you can't skip a Crew special as you can normal S-Moves.

Zyre

2009-11-05 06:22:53 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Yeah, I'm doing much more planning before I record any more segments (although the more that I test my plans, the more I want to go back and rerecord the first one, we'll see how I feel about that).

Thanks for the thoughts about CF vs PW. That was something that had crossed my mind recently. Constant CFs would use up Vyse's turn, where PW would allow one or two turns for Vyse to perform other things (like you said, items, healing, etc). I think the best course of action would be to see which would perform better on an individual boss basis.

To my knowledge, bosses don't act differently when they reach critical HP. So far that has proven true, but I can't say for the later bosses. I don't remember any ATM, though.

I'll test to see if Focus occurs before most of the S-Moves. I know that some S-Moves always go first (Drachma's Spirit Charge and Fina's Lunar Light, for example) no matter what the other moves are. Getting the most out of my SP will be crucial about mid-game. Right now in early game (where I'm currently revising my plan and testing at) it isn't too much to worry about.

Bosses with Sacrulen are gonna end up with a mix of luck-manip and extreme planning. Luckily, IIRC there aren't too many of them. Crew specials would be a good route to go, but in the end it will be like you said: small crew, less effective. I don't think the crew will be very large; just the required recruits and one or two optionals. But what about Prophecy? If I play my SP right, I can max it out, use Prophecy, and then play like normal. I don't recall if I can skip Prophecy's animation (again, something to check when I test it later), but it becomes a powerful hit that skips the enemy's turn.

Yeah, I'm doing much more planning before I record any more segments (although the more that I test my plans, the more I want to go back and rerecord the first one, we'll see how I feel about that).

Thanks for the thoughts about CF vs PW.  That was something that had crossed my mind recently.  Constant CFs would use up Vyse's turn, where PW would allow one or two turns for Vyse to perform other things (like you said, items, healing, etc).  I think the best course of action would be to see which would perform better on an individual boss basis.

To my knowledge, bosses don't act differently when they reach critical HP.  So far that has proven true, but I can't say for the later bosses.  I don't remember any ATM, though.

I'll test to see if Focus occurs before most of the S-Moves.  I know that some S-Moves always go first (Drachma's Spirit Charge and Fina's Lunar Light, for example) no matter what the other moves are.  Getting the most out of my SP will be crucial about mid-game.  Right now in early game (where I'm currently revising my plan and testing at) it isn't too much to worry about.

Bosses with Sacrulen are gonna end up with a mix of luck-manip and extreme planning.  Luckily, IIRC there aren't too many of them.  Crew specials would be a good route to go, but in the end it will be like you said: small crew, less effective.  I don't think the crew will be very large; just the required recruits and one or two optionals.  But what about Prophecy?  If I play my SP right, I can max it out, use Prophecy, and then play like normal.  I don't recall if I can skip Prophecy's animation (again, something to check when I test it later), but it becomes a powerful hit that skips the enemy's turn.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2009-11-06 01:28:23 am

2009-11-05 08:35:11 pm

Yeah, I think you're right about Prophecy, I don't think the crew itself affects it, which would make it useful. It was Blue Rogues I was thinking about really, but I used Prophecy for big damage as you say. If your SP levels are low enough, Prophecy may not cost much more than PW anyway, but the way I remember some of those bosses, I wouldn't really like to rely on something like that. Though you can't really abuse anything other than items in SoA.

Regarding move priority, I believe they're categorised into defence, healing/buffs, focus, attacking moves/magic, and standard attacks, and happen in that order (or at least something close). I can't check it myself right now though. When multiple combatants use something from the same category, it's the character's Quick stat that determines who acts first.

Zyre

2009-11-08 09:57:34 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Something else that has caught my attention: Main Cannons vs Sub Cannons. I've been looking over the Item FAQs guide at GameFAQs, and I noticed that the Sub Cannons actually have a higher Attack power than Main Cannons at a lower SP cost too. Plus, the Subs can extend into other rounds if I have the SP to spare, and they are cheaper to buy as well. The only drawback though is the decrease in accuracy. It isn't much at about a 10% decrease, but it can affect it. I don't think that this would be too detrimental though, as this is all segmented and I can just reset if I miss too many times in the fight.

mocliamtoh

2009-11-09 09:01:46 am

My name is unpronounceable

The only thing you have to remember is that the sub cannons don't get the attack boost from the character's strength. I don't know how much this is a factor, especially considering your low levels, but it's something to not forget about.

I remember when I played through the game though. As soon as I got torpedos, I don't think I ever had more than one main cannon equipped, if that. Instead, I'd generally use magic.

Zyre

2009-11-15 05:22:45 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Another little progress report (for those who are still interested, you know who you are ;D)

Not much farther along from where I was when I last posted, sadly. But the reason for it is that I discovered that I need to have at least two Crystales Boxes for the Bleigock and Executioner fights to optimize them. Trying to get through them with only one was very trying, and having two makes it better. Since the earliest (and currently only) place to get them is back on Sailor's Isle, I had to go back and re-plan from there forward. And it shows, time-wise, that it was the smarter move. I have now saved perhaps 5 minutes so far with that second box on me. Bleigock goes down one turn sooner, and the Executioner can go down in two turns (though at the moment, he goes down in three but it was just a matter of about 20 hp left, something to luck manipulate).

Thankfully so far being slightly underlevelled hasn't shown to be too much of a problem, but that's still kinda early to say.

If you're interested, I'm only level 9 when I fight the Executioner.

Another little progress report (for those who are still interested, you know who you are  ;D)

Not much farther along from where I was when I last posted, sadly.  But the reason for it is that I discovered that I need to have at least two Crystales Boxes for the Bleigock and Executioner fights to optimize them.  Trying to get through them with only one was very trying, and having two makes it better.  Since the earliest (and currently only) place to get them is back on Sailor's Isle, I had to go back and re-plan from there forward.  And it shows, time-wise, that it was the smarter move.  I have now saved perhaps 5 minutes so far with that second box on me.  Bleigock goes down one turn sooner, and the Executioner can go down in two turns (though at the moment, he goes down in three but it was just a matter of about 20 hp left, something to luck manipulate).

Thankfully so far being slightly underlevelled hasn't shown to be too much of a problem, but that's still kinda early to say.

If you're interested, I'm only level 9 when I fight the Executioner.

bmn

2009-11-16 04:30:17 am

Two turns Executioner at Lv.9? O_O

Zyre

2009-11-16 08:18:00 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Quote from bmn:

Two turns Executioner at Lv.9? O_O

You better believe it. I just tested it and pulled it off! Grin

Requires quite a bit of luck manip though, but that's the same for almost every segment. Roll Eyes

koesherbacon

2009-11-26 01:19:01 am

Hi dudes,

I saw this thread from a google search. First, that's awesome. I love the game! Got a question for you, though. I see you have segments 1-35 finished. I don't suppose you have those hosted somewhere do you? mediafire.com, maybe? I would love to see what you have so far! How many segments do you suppose it will be?

Sending you good wishes! Hope you can finish it up soon, I'm dying to see your finished product!

bmn

2009-11-26 08:48:09 am

1 out of about 35 segments >_>

Zyre

2009-11-26 08:22:49 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Quote from bmn:

1 out of about 35 segments >_>

Yeah, that's where I'm at (although I may re-record that first one as when I watch it I flinch at some of the mistakes I made, it's only about 10 seconds worth though).

Zyre

Edit history:

Zyre: 2009-12-15 08:42:13 pm

2009-12-14 01:17:42 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Been a while, hasn't it? Bet you want to hear some good news.

Well, I shouldn't disappoint.

Slow and steady is the theme here today. I decided to go back and re-record the first segment again, partly because I didn't like, but also because I realized that it would be smarter for me (and save me a huge headache) to split it and save while on Alfonso's ship. So, for your viewing pleasure, and to act as a bit of a teaser, I'm going to upload the old first segment (mistakes and all) to my website later today when I get the chance. It goes from the beginning of the game, to the first save point on Pirate Isle.

Low Quality
Medium Quality
High Quality

So now my finished segments return to 0, but I know that the newer recordings will be a much better show and will make working with luck much easier.

But that doesn't mean that I've been slacking anywhere else. I've been able to play, plan, and test up to the entrance to the Prynn Temple. No major snags so far, but this is still fairly early on. Estimated time up to the Prynn Temple entrance: 1:55. A fair amount of that is cutscenes, but still an admirable time.

EDIT: I know that I said I was going to put it up on Youtube, but they aren't cooperating with me right now. I'm putting a LQ, MQ, and HQ version up on my website and you can directly download from there, plus I'm going to take a moment to make a flash video player on my site for those who'd rather stream it.

Been a while, hasn't it?  Bet you want to hear some good news.

Well, I shouldn't disappoint.

Slow and steady is the theme here today.  I decided to go back and re-record the first segment again, partly because I didn't like, but also because I realized that it would be smarter for me (and save me a huge headache) to split it and save while on Alfonso's ship.  So, for your viewing pleasure, and to act as a bit of a teaser, I'm going to upload the old first segment (mistakes and all) to my website later today when I get the chance.  It goes from the beginning of the game, to the first save point on Pirate Isle.

[url=http://www.zyreshaven.net/soalvideos/Old_SOALpart1_LQ.mp4]Low Quality[/url]
[url=http://www.zyreshaven.net/soalvideos/Old_SOALpart1_MQ.mp4]Medium Quality[/url]
[url=http://www.zyreshaven.net/soalvideos/Old_SOALpart1_HQ.mp4]High Quality[/url]

So now my finished segments return to 0, but I know that the newer recordings will be a much better show and will make working with luck much easier.

But that doesn't mean that I've been slacking anywhere else.  I've been able to play, plan, and test up to the entrance to the Prynn Temple.  No major snags so far, but this is still fairly early on.  Estimated time up to the Prynn Temple entrance: 1:55.  A fair amount of that is cutscenes, but still an admirable time.

EDIT: I know that I said I was going to put it up on Youtube, but they aren't cooperating with me right now.  I'm putting a LQ, MQ, and HQ version up on my website and you can directly download from there, plus I'm going to take a moment to make a flash video player on my site for those who'd rather stream it.

bmn

Edit history:

bmn: 2009-12-17 09:28:03 am

2009-12-17 09:09:39 am

Yeah, looking at that segment I can see why you'd want to scrap it. Sure, luck matters more in SoA than most RPGs, but you seemed to have a disproportionate amount of bad luck in the battles. That and the horrible mistake on the outside... Shame the big luck manip is right at the start of the game.

I'd definitely support an approach of saving at almost every save point. I'd much rather see close-to-perfect play than a lower number of segments plagued with bad luck.

P.S. Poor Antonio -_-

Zyre

2009-12-17 08:03:37 pm

The Speedrunning Teacher

Great news! The first segment has been re-recorded and I feel much more confident about this one. The only gripes about this one is missing a couple of attacks (one of the soldiers still had some fight in him) and one extra battle (but nothing that I couldn't destroy in one shot Wink

). But other than that, the Electri box is as good as mine! Mwahahaha!

Luckily, this first segment is the most luck dependent one I've encountered so far, with a 1% drop rate for that box. The next closest luck dependent segment so far has been either the Bleigock or Executioner fights, which go the way I want them to about 1 in 4 times.

mocliamtoh

2009-12-18 10:52:06 am

My name is unpronounceable

Quote from Zyre:

Luckily, this first segment is the most luck dependent one I've encountered so far, with a 1% drop rate for that box. The next closest luck dependent segment so far has been either the Bleigock or Executioner fights, which go the way I want them to about 1 in 4 times.

1 in 4? Thats really good as far as luck manip goes. It's really nice to hear that you are still working on this, even with all the planning and replanning.

Now I wish I could play it...stupid exams.