SGDQ 2014 Game Submissions (note: we're using Google form) [locked]

2014-02-02 12:32:36 am

Quote from iongravirei:

Regarding Mighty Switch Force 1, I'd like to mention that a good run of NG+, including the bonus levels, is shorter than 25 minutes, and mistakes don't cost much time. I made the estimate 35 because I assumed setting up 3DS for the marathon run would take a bit longer than a console game. I felt that this was worth mentioning because tony's estimate is 30.

Vouching for this, I thought about taking 3DS setup into my estimate as well. This has nothing to do with submitting NG+ myself, I will also say that I think that NG+ is a more technically impressive and entertaining category than NG, having run both. Here's a video that demonstrates the difference pretty well:

TonyOgbot

Edit history:

TonyOgbot: 2014-02-02 12:52:12 am

2014-02-02 12:51:35 am

This might be a crazy thought, but we could maybe do a NG and a NG+ run at the same time to showcase the differences between the two? The game isn't long, and with the differences between routing, that could really be a fun thing to observe.

It would be like a race, but more a demonstration between the two different runs.

Gaël

2014-02-02 02:49:20 am

I don't agree with Final Fantasy IV being insta-cut because of:

Quote:

"This has been done at multiple GDQs and recent enough that it can still use a break."

"Multiple GDQs" = AGDQ2011 and SGDQ 2013;
AGDQ2011 was more than 3 years ago, also this run was 4:29:52, there are a lot a skips/strats that have been found since (nowadays runners use RTA because it is faster) and the record has been lowered to 3:29:55 (1 hour slower than the AGDQ2011 run)
SGDQ2013 run was with large-skip glitches which is another category

"recent enough that it can still use a break"
Maybe the run from last year is still too "fresh" to be at SGDQ2014 but being another category it should be part of the preliminary game list, to reconsider once the submissions are over.

Now I will list the games that had a run at AGDQ2014 (aka 3 weeks ago) or at SDGQ2013 that apparently don't need to "use a break":

Star Fox 64 (AGDQ2014)
Bastion (AGDQ2014)
Super Monkey Ball 2 (AGDQ2014)
Quake (AGDQ2014)
Half-Life (AGDQ2014)
Half-Life 2 (AGDQ2014)
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (AGDQ2014)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (AGDQ2014 + SGDQ2013)
Streemerz (AGDQ2014)
Metroid: Zero Mission (AGDQ2014)
Metroid Fusion (SGDQ2013)
Donkey Kong Country (AGDQ2014)
Quantum Conundrum (AGDQ2014)
Super Mario Bros. 2 (AGDQ2014)
Kirby's Dream Land (SGDQ2013)
Super Mario World (AGDQ2014 + SGDQ2013)
Castlevania 64 (SGDQ2013)
Braid (SGDQ2013)
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (AGDQ2014 + SGDQ2013)
Mega Man 3 (AGDQ2014)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (AGDQ2014)
Mega Man (AGDQ2014)
Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (AGDQ2014)

I feel like the actual reason for cut is " A RPG, I don't like RPG speedrun, let's cut that shit ... need a reason ... let's just say it need a break ..."

I don't agree with Final Fantasy IV being insta-cut because of:
[quote]"This has been done at multiple GDQs and recent enough that it can still use a break."[/quote]

"Multiple GDQs" = AGDQ2011 and SGDQ 2013;
AGDQ2011 was more than 3 years ago, also this run was 4:29:52, there are a lot a skips/strats that have been found since (nowadays runners use RTA because it is faster) and the record has been lowered to 3:29:55 (1 hour slower than the AGDQ2011 run)
SGDQ2013 run was with large-skip glitches which is another category

"recent enough that it can still use a break"
Maybe the run from last year is still too "fresh" to be at SGDQ2014 but being another category it should be part of the preliminary game list, to reconsider once the submissions are over.

Now I will list the games that had a run at AGDQ2014 (aka 3 weeks ago) or at SDGQ2013 that apparently don't need to "use a break":

[hidden]Star Fox 64	(AGDQ2014)
Bastion (AGDQ2014)
Super Monkey Ball 2 (AGDQ2014)
Quake (AGDQ2014)
Half-Life (AGDQ2014)
Half-Life 2 (AGDQ2014)
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (AGDQ2014)
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (AGDQ2014 + SGDQ2013)
Streemerz (AGDQ2014)
Metroid: Zero Mission (AGDQ2014)
Metroid Fusion (SGDQ2013)
Donkey Kong Country (AGDQ2014)
Quantum Conundrum (AGDQ2014)
Super Mario Bros. 2 (AGDQ2014)
Kirby's Dream Land (SGDQ2013)
Super Mario World (AGDQ2014 + SGDQ2013)
Castlevania 64 (SGDQ2013)
Braid (SGDQ2013)
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (AGDQ2014 + SGDQ2013)
Mega Man 3 (AGDQ2014)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (AGDQ2014)
Mega Man (AGDQ2014)
Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (AGDQ2014)[/hidden]

I feel like the actual reason for cut is " A RPG, I don't like RPG speedrun, let's cut that shit ... need a reason ... let's just say it need a break ..."

Sir VG

2014-02-02 02:51:58 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Well, if it makes you feel any better, Final Fantasy IV will be done at Crystals For Life as well, which will be a grand total of about 6 weeks before SGDQ.

Also, your attitude needs a slight adjustment. There's games on the already cut list we all don't like. It's fine to make jokes, but no need to get that pissy about it.

z1mb0bw4y

Edit history:

z1mb0bw4y: 2014-02-02 03:05:02 am

2014-02-02 03:04:30 am

Gets the cake.

All of the games you mentioned are shorter than the 4 hours that FFIV apparently takes, and in addition to that most of those games are more fast-paced in general and feature more exciting tricks overall than I would assume a FFIV run could have.

Also, this list is still a work in progress. Many of the games you mentioned may get cut, but you have to remember that we're doing these marathons for a charity. A lot of those games are big-name titles that have previously brought in tens of thousands of viewers and lots and lots of donations, so there's a reason they're being considered again so quickly.

Gaël

2014-02-02 04:13:28 am

First, I'd like to apologize on the pissiness of my previous post but I didn't mean to be rude to anyone, Romscout said on this last post that he will answer questions about the cuts, even the salty ones Grin

, "as long as it actually has some reasoning/criticism in the post and not just being angry"
Maybe he didn't realize Deuceler offered another category that the one done last year.

Quote from Sir VG:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, Final Fantasy IV will be done at Crystals For Life as well, which will be a grand total of about 6 weeks before SGDQ.

As far as I know, Essentia will run DieHard% at C4L and I don't think a game should be cut because it was run at another,non-GDQ, marathon (even more true since the possible marathon saturation). Also if C4L become a permanent thing it will always be 3 months before or after any GDQs, will that mean that there won't be anymore RPG at GDQs ? I hope not.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2014-02-02 04:53:54 am

2014-02-02 04:19:29 am

Fucking Weeaboo

I don't think it'll ever be a case of "no more RPGs at GDQs". While C4L will be a dedicated RPG marathon, it doesn't mean it will hold all the RPGs hostage. I mean, look how well Chrono Trigger did at AGDQ2014. It brought it ALL THE MONEYS.

The thing is, the length of the marathons just can't get any longer than what AGDQ 2014 was. And virtually all RPGs are long. VERY long. So they have to be somewhat selective on which ones they do, especially since there are a lot of great ones (especially by old Squaresoft).

So don't get too salty. There will always be RPGs. But I think running the same RPGs in back to back GDQs is not a wise choice anymore, especially with their* exploding popularity.

*their, as in the GDQs.

TheBirdOfPrey

2014-02-02 07:49:05 am

no offense but if an 8 hour run makes the cut (which i hope to dear god it won't, no matter how good the run is) I, and many others would SERIOUSLY question the choices being made by the game deciders.

LP3Tristan

2014-02-02 08:23:43 am

Quote from Duke Bilgewater:

Quote from iongravirei:

Regarding Mighty Switch Force 1, I'd like to mention that a good run of NG+, including the bonus levels, is shorter than 25 minutes, and mistakes don't cost much time. I made the estimate 35 because I assumed setting up 3DS for the marathon run would take a bit longer than a console game. I felt that this was worth mentioning because tony's estimate is 30.

Vouching for this, I thought about taking 3DS setup into my estimate as well. This has nothing to do with submitting NG+ myself, I will also say that I think that NG+ is a more technically impressive and entertaining category than NG, having run both. Here's a video that demonstrates the difference pretty well:

Thought I would just quote this post to get your attention but just noticed you Hit & Run run got accepted (so far) I also submitted one although i gave a very generous time would you be down for a race?

mikwuyma

2014-02-02 08:57:12 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Just one note about this topic, I just want to emphasize that this topic is for debating cuts and going over games that made it in the first round, not a soapbox for people's opinions.

RPGs: I'm not romscout but I can at least talk more at length about RPGs. What Sir VG said is correct, running the same RPGs in back to back GDQs is not a wise choice. In fact, it wasn't a wise choice even back in 2011.

We know that a lot of RPGs (or at least Square Enix ones) have a very divided viewpoint. On one hand, there's a lot of RPG fans. On the other hand, they're not the most action-packed watch (so people who aren't fans aren't exactly going to be converted), they can get stale fast if repeated too soon, and most are quite long, which means moreso than any other genre, we have to be really careful about the rpgs we pick. If a 30 minute run bombs then that's not too great but at least it's not too hard to recover, but if a 6+ hour run bombs, then that's a gigantic slog.

One note about Chrono Trigger: I know that a large portion of the donations raised during the game were during the final hour/hour and a half where there was a push for a million, but even if you ignore the last hour/ hour and a half where it raised 100k, the game still averaged over 10k an hour. The game started at around 844k total donations iirc, and in 4-4 and a half hours it got up to 900k.

BTW, this also isn't taking into consideration the donation goals and name bid wars before the game even started. I know some people want to say that rpgs are not doing as well in GDQs as they used to, but that simply isn't the case.

Just one note about this topic, I just want to emphasize that this topic is for debating cuts and going over games that made it in the first round, not a soapbox for people's opinions.

RPGs: I'm not romscout but I can at least talk more at length about RPGs. What Sir VG said is correct, running the same RPGs in back to back GDQs is not a wise choice. In fact, it wasn't a wise choice even back in 2011.

We know that a lot of RPGs (or at least Square Enix ones) have a very divided viewpoint. On one hand, there's a lot of RPG fans. On the other hand, they're not the most action-packed watch (so people who aren't fans aren't exactly going to be converted), they can get stale fast if repeated too soon, and most are quite long, which means moreso than any other genre, we have to be really careful about the rpgs we pick. If a 30 minute run bombs then that's not too great but at least it's not too hard to recover, but if a 6+ hour run bombs, then that's a gigantic slog.

One note about Chrono Trigger: I know that a large portion of the donations raised during the game were during the final hour/hour and a half where there was a push for a million, but even if you ignore the last hour/ hour and a half where it raised 100k, the game still averaged over 10k an hour. The game started at around 844k total donations iirc, and in 4-4 and a half hours it got up to 900k.

BTW, this also isn't taking into consideration the donation goals and name bid wars before the game even started. I know some people want to say that rpgs are not doing as well in GDQs as they used to, but that simply isn't the case.

johannhowitzer

2014-02-02 09:25:13 am

Viking it up

Also, people very often seem to forget that THE RPG GENRE IS NOT FINAL FANTASY. Final Fantasy is one series of RPGs in a vast ocean of excellent games, and the RPG genre even has sub-genres like ARPG, TRPG, etc. - Chrono Trigger was NOT the only RPG in AGDQ2014! We also had Secret of Mana, Fire Emblem (the mercykill should be a big indicator of why RPGs are a risk), Skyrim, and Borderlands 2 - though the latter two have more action owing to first person. Also possibly D&D, though I didn't watch that so for all I know it could have been an action spinoff.

Just because we're not getting a Final Fantasy does not mean the RPG genre as a whole is blacklisted from GDQs. In fact, since Final Fantasy represents some of the longer RPG speedruns, like 9 and 10, the opposite will be the case - as Final Fantasies take a break and leave their time slots open, other RPGs will get a chance to shine.

Deuceler

Edit history:

Deuceler: 2014-02-02 10:27:51 am

Deuceler: 2014-02-02 09:38:53 am

2014-02-02 09:38:34 am

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

As far as Final Fantasy IV is concerned, by reading my submission comment I was aware that the game had been done - but seeing as how it is one that I run, I figured what the hell. I agree with all of Rom's decisions as far as game cuts go (and all three of my submissions got cut).

People need to quit taking their games being cut so personally, they aren't doing it because you aren't an elite speed runner or because they dislike your game and community - they are doing it because it is necessary. If all 300 people that submitted on Day 1 got their games in, SGDQ would suck and it would be a month long.

CVagts

2014-02-02 09:43:43 am

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

Quote from johannhowitzer:

Fire Emblem (the mercykill should be a big indicator of why RPGs are a risk)

I don't agree with this. It might be an indicator of why FIRE EMBLEM games are a risk, but not indictive of RPGs as a whole. RPGs do tend to have more RNG than most genres, but a lot of RPGs, particularly ones that have been submitted for GDQs past and present, have ways and methods you can use to mitigate it. The Fire Emblem runner at AGDQ 2014 eschewed these methods and it came back to bite him, but that in no way reflects badly on the genre as a whole.

RaneofSOTN

2014-02-02 10:01:11 am

I want off the ride....

Quote from Gaël:

""

Just wanna say as the runner for the game. Back then in AGDQ'11, there wasn't a concept of a SS run of FF4. There wasn't even an idea of a MARATHON run of FF4. I did a lot of work getting it to the point and I knew the run would be about 4 hours (at the time i hadn't done a clean run) but i put the estimate at 5 cause I didn't know how things would go (MP underflow not found and well Baigan and the Magus Sisters being trolls...) it took 4:30 cause of the donation name incentives and me being constantly worried.

AGDQ'11 was the first "clean" SS of ff2us that I am aware of. It was the first time I beat it from start to finish without a failure somewhere. I also spend the whole month before hand routing FF2us and FF4j (PSX version).

And I hate to say it but.. I dont wanna see FF4 run in a marathon again unless its the PSP version. Its cleaner, its crisper. The Visuals are very very nice. It has a "SPEED UP!" button (which can be used to great avail) and would force a glitchless run and different strats at the end. I think it'd just be a "better" run. Otherwise Die Hard % is more entertaining. After about Golbez there is a fall off for the run for a bit, and lets face it. No one wants to risk anything on D.Machin grind.

[quote="Gaël"]""[/quote]
Just wanna say as the runner for the game. Back then in AGDQ'11, there wasn't a concept of a SS run of FF4. There wasn't even an idea of a MARATHON run of FF4. I did a lot of work getting it to the point and I knew the run would be about 4 hours (at the time i hadn't done a clean run) but i put the estimate at 5 cause I didn't know how things would go (MP underflow not found and well Baigan and the Magus Sisters being trolls...) it took 4:30 cause of the donation name incentives and me being constantly worried.

AGDQ'11 was the first "clean" SS of ff2us that I am aware of. It was the first time I beat it from start to finish without a failure somewhere. I also spend the whole month before hand routing FF2us and FF4j (PSX version).

And I hate to say it but.. I dont wanna see FF4 run in a marathon again unless its the PSP version. Its cleaner, its crisper. The Visuals are very very nice. It has a "SPEED UP!" button (which can be used to great avail) and would force a glitchless run and different strats at the end. I think it'd just be a "better" run. Otherwise Die Hard % is more entertaining. After about Golbez there is a fall off for the run for a bit, and lets face it. No one wants to risk anything on D.Machin grind.

iongravirei

Edit history:

iongravirei: 2014-02-02 10:04:43 am

2014-02-02 10:02:53 am

Good morning!

Quote from TonyOgbot:

This might be a crazy thought, but we could maybe do a NG and a NG+ run at the same time to showcase the differences between the two? The game isn't long, and with the differences between routing, that could really be a fun thing to observe.

It would be like a race, but more a demonstration between the two different runs.

I think that would be cool to watch. Has a category comparison like that been done at a marathon before?

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2014-02-02 11:20:59 am

Claimh Happy

Races are already hard to follow, and that's when both screens are doing the same thing. People that aren't familiar with the game (which is lot of people in this case) won't be able to deal with following both runs.

Naegleria

(user is banned)

2014-02-02 12:29:43 pm

Metal Wolf Chaos is definitely worth the time investment.

cwolf20

Edit history:

cwolf20: 2014-02-02 12:40:03 pm

2014-02-02 12:37:59 pm

Races may be tough to follow, but the commentators can make that following much easier. Golden and Sinister made the SM race that much more amazing because even a layperson could follow. However, the cost of commentary like that is reduced donation reading.

Duke Bilgewater

2014-02-02 12:42:23 pm

Quote from LP3Tristan:

Thought I would just quote this post to get your attention but just noticed you Hit & Run run got accepted (so far) I also submitted one although i gave a very generous time would you be down for a race?

As long as your time is close to mine so that the race will be entertaining, sure. I've raced the game before, it's pretty fun to do.

Also, I agree that having two different categories side by side will be too confusing. Also, in the case of MSF, NG is only interesting on its own - if it was shown next to NG+, it would look like the same route, but slower and with fewer tricks.

ancientpower

2014-02-02 12:43:49 pm

Races are great, especially for games that have a lot of downtime because there's twice as much going on on screen. I personally haven't ever really had time following a race, because you're typically tracking and comparing progress rather than wanting to know how the runners did a trick.

As for sacrificing donation reading for commentary, that's hardly a bad thing. Commentary should take priority over donations with some obvious exceptions.

SomeGuest

2014-02-02 12:46:13 pm

Quote from ancientpower:

Races are great, especially for games that have a lot of downtime because there's twice as much going on on screen.

Twice the downtime, you mean?
If it's a close race, I don't see your point being valid.

BioSpark

2014-02-02 12:57:30 pm

i just submitted three categories of metroid fusion as three separate games. i hope that's not a problem, but you can get rid of low% and 100% if it is.

romscout

2014-02-02 01:44:20 pm

that Metroidvania guy

Ok, I was reviewing stuff from the thread this morning.

Ty: I watched darkpapo1's most recent highlighted run this morning. The game does have some charm, and it has tricks, but I don't think it has enough going for it that it'd be able to compete through second round anyway. I'll admit part of this is because I had absolutely no commentary sample (since the runner didn't use a mic), but even watching the game as a casual viewer, a bunch of the tricks failed to give me that initial "holy shit!" you get when watching runs like this. That's probably because I haven't played it, and the same would go for a lot of other people who haven't played it, which will be a lot. I also had the rest of the committee checking out the run and giving their assessment, and it's unanimous so far that even though this game is pretty adorable and has nice tricks, there's no point in adding it back on since it would likely just get cut in the next round anyway.

Sonic + All Stars Racing: This was definitely one of the hastier decisions early on, so all of us in the committee went back and watched runs/time trials of this game. The consensus was that there while there was stuff that would be impressive to people who have played it a lot, this doesn't come across as fast paced for a racer, and there's no tech that is obviously impressive enough for casual viewers to appreciate. The game sold well, but it has no buzz around the speedrunning community and so a large chunk of people at the event and watching online would likely find it dull. Perhaps this was too hasty of a cut for round 1, but it definitely wouldn't have made it past round 2 anyway.

Gone Home: This cut is pretty straightforward. You run to the end immediately. Great. Not worth the setup time. The dev could definitely be involved with the Bioshock 2 run, though.

Minish Cap estimate: I appreciate you following the guideline of 5 minutes per half hour of gameplay. We account for this when looking at the games, and as you could tell by how far behind we got at AGDQ, lenient estimates are a must.

DS (specifically MSF) races: This would be new territory for us, although I'm not opposed to trying it. I know at least me and Vulajin would bring 3DS caps. I'm not sure having more than 2 person races would be worth the hassle, though. As for showing off 2 different categories at once, that would just get confusing to a lot of people very fast. We have done stuff in the past like that, showing slightly different versions of a game off for instance, and the general reaction was "what am I even watching?".

FF4: Mike's post explains our stance pretty well. Mike and I both love JRPGs, and wish we could get away with having more. But because of their length and how divided people are about them, we need to be very careful with RPG decisions and usually can't risk having a long one done back to back years.

Ok, I was reviewing stuff from the thread this morning.

Ty: I watched darkpapo1's most recent highlighted run this morning. The game does have some charm, and it has tricks, but I don't think it has enough going for it that it'd be able to compete through second round anyway. I'll admit part of this is because I had absolutely no commentary sample (since the runner didn't use a mic), but even watching the game as a casual viewer, a bunch of the tricks failed to give me that initial "holy shit!" you get when watching runs like this. That's probably because I haven't played it, and the same would go for a lot of other people who haven't played it, which will be a lot. I also had the rest of the committee checking out the run and giving their assessment, and it's unanimous so far that even though this game is pretty adorable and has nice tricks, there's no point in adding it back on since it would likely just get cut in the next round anyway.

Sonic + All Stars Racing: This was definitely one of the hastier decisions early on, so all of us in the committee went back and watched runs/time trials of this game. The consensus was that there while there was stuff that would be impressive to people who have played it a lot, this doesn't come across as fast paced for a racer, and there's no tech that is obviously impressive enough for casual viewers to appreciate. The game sold well, but it has no buzz around the speedrunning community and so a large chunk of people at the event and watching online would likely find it dull. Perhaps this was too hasty of a cut for round 1, but it definitely wouldn't have made it past round 2 anyway.

Gone Home: This cut is pretty straightforward. You run to the end immediately. Great. Not worth the setup time. The dev could definitely be involved with the Bioshock 2 run, though.

Minish Cap estimate: I appreciate you following the guideline of 5 minutes per half hour of gameplay. We account for this when looking at the games, and as you could tell by how far behind we got at AGDQ, lenient estimates are a must.

DS (specifically MSF) races: This would be new territory for us, although I'm not opposed to trying it. I know at least me and Vulajin would bring 3DS caps. I'm not sure having more than 2 person races would be worth the hassle, though. As for showing off 2 different categories at once, that would just get confusing to a lot of people very fast. We have done stuff in the past like that, showing slightly different versions of a game off for instance, and the general reaction was "what am I even watching?".

FF4: Mike's post explains our stance pretty well. Mike and I both love JRPGs, and wish we could get away with having more. But because of their length and how divided people are about them, we need to be very careful with RPG decisions and usually can't risk having a long one done back to back years.

Solid

Edit history:

Solid: 2014-02-02 01:58:15 pm

2014-02-02 01:56:51 pm

fite me 1v1 kid u wont

If you want to see how darkpapo1's commentary is you can go watch his transformer run that was done during srg3, he has really good commentary.

ASRT should really be reconsidered though, I disagree about it being dull to a new viewers. Considering the game was hugely popular among two big fanbase which is the cart racer one and Sonic/Sega fans. And popular streams that do occasional casual play are usually really popular, I could see people having interest into seeing a speedrun since the game doesn't have the most "popular" runners in the community so it would be "new" for them. On top of that the game isnt repetitive since its on a different track each time and the pacing is really good for a cart game. Its no F-Zero but its faster and more diverse than Mario Kart which was actually ran last AGDQ.

m1_michael

2014-02-02 02:29:49 pm

If ya'll are considering Silent Hill 3 I should point out that I should have put 1 hour as the estimate. It's extremely unlikely I'll surpass 55 minutes even with setup time, but since I'm running on the PC it's always possible setup will end up taking 5, maybe even 10 extra years. Thank you.