Serious Sam FE [locked]

Stubgaard

2005-05-05 04:30:05 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

stx-Vile: I seriously (pun intended!) enjoy watching your speedruns! Keep up the good work man!

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-06 08:44:39 pm

2005-05-06 07:56:21 pm

The man made of sticks

I could use a few opinions right about now. I've looked ahead at level 10, Metropolis, which may well end up being the longest run of the game. However, what I'm concerned about is that I've run into a few different tricks where my definition of what should be allowed in Serious Sam running is not concrete. I've provided two different examples from the same level here. The first one:

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/trick1.avi

This one I have no problem using. It avoids some enemy spawn triggers and stays within the boundries of the map. This second one is where I'm having trouble reaching a decision:

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/trick2.avi

Obviously there isn't completely noclipping mode like in previous levels, which I'm against using entirely. There's obviously a lot of visual glitches involved here, but entire portions of the level can be skipped.

Should I implement this shortcut or not? Personally, I'm leaning towards "no" but if anyone thinks otherwise, let me know.

As for the next level in line, Suburbs, my current time is 2:06. I'm still working on it, though.

EDIT: if I did rule out this trick, I'd probably end up doing the same in Karnak, where similar tricks are possible... bleh, now I can't decide. Huh?

I could use a few opinions right about now.  I've looked ahead at level 10, Metropolis, which may well end up being the longest run of the game.  However, what I'm concerned about is that I've run into a few different tricks where my definition of what should be allowed in Serious Sam running is not concrete.  I've provided two different examples from the same level here.  The first one:

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/trick1.avi

This one I have no problem using.  It avoids some enemy spawn triggers and stays within the boundries of the map.  This second one is where I'm having trouble reaching a decision:

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/trick2.avi

Obviously there isn't completely noclipping mode like in previous levels, which I'm against using entirely.  There's obviously a lot of visual glitches involved here, but entire portions of the level can be skipped.

Should I implement this shortcut or not?  Personally, I'm leaning towards "no" but if anyone thinks otherwise, let me know.

As for the next level in line, Suburbs, my current time is 2:06.  I'm still working on it, though.

EDIT: if I did rule out this trick, I'd probably end up doing the same in Karnak, where similar tricks are possible... bleh, now I can't decide.  ???

elbryan42

2005-05-06 08:48:35 pm

I say the first trick is all good, but not the second one. The second may not be clipping per se, but it's still no fun to watch.

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-07 12:38:21 am

2005-05-07 12:35:01 am

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/08_-_Suburbs_-_153_stxVile.zip

This is a level where I thought I'd have to slow down and handle the battles as scripted by the game, but it's another example of how picking the right enemies to kill or ignore can make the going much quicker. In the first half, I target certain Arachnids and Reptiloids specifically, then retreat to the hidden corner briefly since I usually get attacked by Reptiloid projectiles from too many directions to defend myself (that tree can be completely destroyed by the tommy gun... weird).

The second area is rather straightforward. The reason the screen changes very briefly when I press the two switches is because the game wants to show me what the switches do, and it assumes that players will have cleared the area thoroughly before activating the switches. I have to make those transitions as brief as possible. Smiley

Also, it seems like you'd be able RJ from the first area to the second, either over the door or the hidden area in the corner... but no luck. It's blocked off by invisible walls and shows more of those graphical glitches from trick2.avi.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/08_-_Suburbs_-_153_stxVile.zip

This is a level where I thought I'd have to slow down and handle the battles as scripted by the game, but it's another example of how picking the right enemies to kill or ignore can make the going much quicker.  In the first half, I target certain Arachnids and Reptiloids specifically, then retreat to the hidden corner briefly since I usually get attacked by Reptiloid projectiles from too many directions to defend myself (that tree can be completely destroyed by the tommy gun... weird).

The second area is rather straightforward.  The reason the screen changes very briefly when I press the two switches is because the game wants to show me what the switches do, and it assumes that players will have cleared the area thoroughly before activating the switches.  I have to make those transitions as brief as possible. :)

Also, it seems like you'd be able RJ from the first area to the second, either over the door or the hidden area in the corner... but no luck.  It's blocked off by invisible walls and shows more of those graphical glitches from trick2.avi.

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-08 09:01:59 am

2005-05-08 01:20:00 am

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/09_-_Sewers_-_138_stxVile.zip

My least favorite level... ironically, I could see underwater better in this cheap avi than in the game. I have a hard time predicting where the electro-fish will be... I may come back to this one later.

I'm not going to use the second Metropolis trick, and possibly not the similar ones in Karnak, citing the policy of glitches on this website whereby if they ARE allowed in some form or another, then perhaps a separate category can be provided for runs implementing this trick, or something,

It's hard to make this distinction, since technically I've already skipped whole segments using rocket jumps, like in Dunes... maybe Radix can clear this up.

EDIT: Radix has ruled in favor of using the shortcut, as i'm still on solid ground and not free-floating or noclipping, like in the Valley of the Kings example. I wouldn't worry about the run becoming too boring, though, since there's still the end arena, where the battles play out in stages like the end of Dunes. I can't do anything to avoid it.

EDIT2: I changed the zip file above to replace the avi with a new one when I realized that I had left the music turned off when I recorded it. If you want one with the game BGM, feel free to redownload.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/09_-_Sewers_-_138_stxVile.zip

My least favorite level... ironically, I could see underwater better in this cheap avi than in the game.  I have a hard time predicting where the electro-fish will be... I may come back to this one later.

I'm not going to use the second Metropolis trick, and possibly not the similar ones in Karnak, citing the policy of glitches on this website whereby if they ARE allowed in some form or another, then perhaps a separate category can be provided for runs implementing this trick, or something,

It's hard to make this distinction, since technically I've already skipped whole segments using rocket jumps, like in Dunes... maybe Radix can clear this up.

EDIT: Radix has ruled in favor of using the shortcut, as i'm still on solid ground and not free-floating or noclipping, like in the Valley of the Kings example.  I wouldn't worry about the run becoming too boring, though, since there's still the end arena, where the battles play out in stages like the end of Dunes.  I can't do anything to avoid it.

EDIT2: I changed the zip file above to replace the avi with a new one when I realized that I had left the music turned off when I recorded it.  If you want one with the game BGM, feel free to redownload.

yoshmaster5

2005-05-09 02:21:24 am

Also tenkiforecast

I started playing it again.

It is HARD. mainly: Dunes and Suburbs. holy crap...

and where are all the statues to get to Moon mountain? I can't find all of them!

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-09 02:51:00 am

2005-05-09 02:49:05 am

The man made of sticks

I believe there's 9 total, though I'm not sure how many are in the temple itself. There's one where you get the rocket launcher and four right at the end. The others are found along the way.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/10_-_Metropolis_-_918_stxVile.zip

Despite the time, only slight improvements can be made since the entire fight sequence is heavily scripted. Killing most creatures won't make the next ones appear faster. I'm not satisfied with this one due to sloppy play, but I'm moving along much like I did with Valley of the Kings. There's some obvious improvements in mind, like being at the end doors right when they open, which is tricky but possible.

Incidentally, here's something unusual that I never noticed before, since I can hardly remember the times I didn't play in Serious skill.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Metropolis_shot1.jpg
http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Metropolis_shot2.jpg

The first shot is in Hard skill, and the second is in Serious skill... I have no idea why the atmosphere completely changes between the two.

I believe there's 9 total, though I'm not sure how many are in the temple itself.  There's one where you get the rocket launcher and four right at the end.  The others are found along the way.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/10_-_Metropolis_-_918_stxVile.zip

Despite the time, only slight improvements can be made since the entire fight sequence is heavily scripted.  Killing most creatures won't make the next ones appear faster.  I'm not satisfied with this one due to sloppy play, but I'm moving along much like I did with Valley of the Kings.  There's some obvious improvements in mind, like being at the end doors right when they open, which is tricky but possible.

Incidentally, here's something unusual that I never noticed before, since I can hardly remember the times I didn't play in Serious skill.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Metropolis_shot1.jpg
http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Metropolis_shot2.jpg

The first shot is in Hard skill, and the second is in Serious skill... I have no idea why the atmosphere completely changes between the two.

elbryan42

2005-05-09 05:16:26 pm

Very nice! Smiley

Although I would've loved to see you tackle the Kleer Skelton onslaught in that hall, but oh well. Wink

You're making me want to play through Serious mode now. Stop it. Tongue

Juncti

2005-05-09 10:35:46 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Man, you're like the FPS master or something. Just finished watching the Doom post and got caught up on the SS progress. Seems you just lay waste to hordes of monsters without trouble.

Any other FPS runs in the works? With the Doom run maybe you could be the one to make the Wolfenstein 3d run we've been discussing on here. I believe the record is somewhere around 30 minutes.

Anyway, looking forward to whatever else you're putting out. Very fun watches and definate keepers.

yoshmaster5

2005-05-09 10:48:56 pm

Also tenkiforecast

Can't wait to see a SE run.

Also, for the third one to come out. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

wassupnext

2005-05-10 04:55:20 am

SDA fan

stx-Vile, nice runs overall. You're pretty good. I would to co-op with you, someday. I frequently play SS since I aw your first speed run...

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-10 05:31:28 am

2005-05-10 05:30:53 am

The man made of sticks

Quote:

Any other FPS runs in the works? With the Doom run maybe you could be the one to make the Wolfenstein 3d run we've been discussing on here. I believe the record is somewhere around 30 minutes.

I have nothing going on at the moment, but I'm probably going to move on to the Second Encounter once these runs are finished. I don't think I'll be trying a Wolf3D run though, since I'm not as charmed by its gameplay as I used to be. Smiley

Quote:

stx-Vile, nice runs overall. You're pretty good. I would to co-op with you, someday. I frequently play SS since I aw your first speed run...

Admittedly, I haven't played much coop... ever. Smiley

But perhaps I can change that someday.

stx-Vile

2005-05-10 06:36:34 pm

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/11_-_Alley_Of_The_Sphinxes_-_616_stxVile.zip

Four more to go, minus improvement attempts for earlier levels.

elbryan42

2005-05-11 03:01:21 am

AWESOME! You're a god, dude. Smiley

yoshmaster5

2005-05-11 04:24:22 am

Also tenkiforecast

One thing after replaying it: me hates Metropolis. Mainly the Kleer skeleton onslaught coming after you... Cry

jesus... even the MINIGUN wouldn't take all of them out... and with Rockets you kill yourself... X_X

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-11 04:57:51 am

2005-05-11 04:56:20 am

The man made of sticks

I'm not sure if you know, but there's a hidden Cannon in the segment that begins after collecting the four items from the suburb-like area. Shoot the wall with a rocket to reach it.

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Metropolis_secret_before.jpg
http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Metropolis_secret_after.jpg

In Serious skill, that gives you 17 cannonballs. That's quite the equalizer for that Kleer horde. Smiley

I would have collected it in my own run and spent the last rocket jump allotted by my health/armor to reach the outside ledge again, but since the final arena's fights are controlled more by time than how fast you kill the monsters, it wasn't necessary.

elbryan42

2005-05-11 06:20:49 am

Sweet! Didn't know about that. I always just used grenades, rockets and the minigun. But I tend to run out of ammo. Cannonballs will definitely help. Smiley

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-12 02:39:50 am

2005-05-12 01:38:35 am

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/12_-_Karnak_-_707_stxVile.zip

Basically a repeat of Metropolis... a trick jump at the start, walking to the end, and fighting the last battles of the stage. I got knocked away from the exit door at the end, costing some seconds, though I prefer that to getting juggled to death by the Werebulls, especially when I was concentrating on the more important targets.

That start jump is kinda strange because once you jump out the window, it'll appear as a solid wall from outside, as well as act like one. Things can only pass through it from inside the room... weird.

EDIT: Incidentally, I like this wallpaper screenie:

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/Karnak.jpg

yoshmaster5

2005-05-12 03:44:50 am

Also tenkiforecast

Finally got past the Kleer swarm. The Cannonballs did the trick. ^_^

Awsome runs too... much better than I can do on FPS's... I prefer to have fun in the games...

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-05-12 04:46:25 am

2005-05-12 04:44:46 am

Great Karnak run! Grin

Just beat First Encounter (again). I'll be installing Second Encounter again. I've only beaten SE on the XBox, but only played about halfway through on the PC. I've had the game for years, but never really played through it before. After that, I'm going back to Next Encounter on PS2. I love that game, possibly more than FE and SE. I beat the game, but still have yet to unlock all of the secret levels though. I love the variety of NE (not to mention the Super Combo Killing Sprees). So many new enemies.

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-13 06:18:14 am

2005-05-13 06:06:20 am

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/13_-_Luxor_-_534_stxVile.zip

Credits to someone named Prestige who made a demo of the trick jump used here. Also, the second RJ used in this run, which probably looks pointless, was to avoid a nasty monster spawn trigger (large lava golems and reptiloids, among other things).

stx-Vile

Edit history:

stx-Vile: 2005-05-13 06:20:07 pm

2005-05-13 06:13:21 pm

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/14_-_Sacred_Yards_-_129_stxVile.zip

I ducked out early on this one, since it wasn't that much fun because of the shortcuts used here... I guess it wasn't that interesting to pursue when the first half-minute is just running in a straight line, and it turns out to be a third of the total run. Tongue

BTW, that's a really important health pill... certainly the most useful in any run I've done, since a rocket jump costs exactly 50 health. I used a similar strategy in Alley of the Sphinxes with an armor shard, but that just made one of the rocket jumps easier.

stx-Vile

2005-05-14 03:44:05 am

The man made of sticks

http://www.dashevil.sytes.net/stx-Vile/15_-_The_Great_Pyramid_-_558_stxVile.zip

Running straight to the pyramid to initiate the countdown on the door is the idea here... any time spent after that is up to me. During the final fight I lost a great majority of my health to the same laser attack, which is pretty easy to avoid, normally. I didn't feel like losing time dodging the blasts again, though. The final fight can be annoying since the boss isn't always in the right position to get zapped when you jump through the hoops in the same pattern... it just depends on how often he decides to attack and when.

Anyway, that makes a complete set of runs for the entire game. Any comments or suggestions? The only other course of action I can think of is retrying some levels to shoot for lower times or produce smoother demos, but you guys watch these more than me. Are any of them ugly enough to warrant another play? If not, I'll move on to the Second Encounter sometime soon.

Stubgaard

2005-05-14 04:17:38 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

I think it's good enough as it is, surely some seconds can be shaved off here and there, but I honestly don't think it's worth the effort, and besides, personally I'd much rather want to see a 2nd Encounter speedrun, as I found the 1st Encounter a little too "easy" to get through Grin

(a little sarcasm hasn't hurt anyone!)

stx-Vile

2005-05-14 07:49:03 pm

The man made of sticks

I've tried to improve Valley of the Kings but can't get the cooperation I need from the monsters. I wasn't satisfied with the current run because of some ugly mistakes, but I can come back to it later on if it keeps bothering me. I'm going to wrap things up instead.