Secret of Mana

2013-11-24 03:15:47 pm

Well i actually did my first attemps on that game and got a 2:57:XX. There is much time for improvements.
There are some things which confuses me sometimes.... Here the examples:
1) Great Viper : Immediatly after entering bossfight and bringing boy in middle of the room, he starts casting and kills me in lock........ Just RNG?
2) Rope Pole event: Sometimes attacking with the boy, casting with the girl and walking with the spite make them walk huge distances and sometimes not even a frame..... e.g. last room to FrostGiant Passing over with the spite doesnt work for me...

Yagamoth

2013-11-24 03:32:45 pm

INTJ

Quote:

1) Great Viper : Immediatly after entering bossfight and bringing boy in middle of the room, he starts casting and kills me in lock........ Just RNG?

- If you are talking about the spellcasts - that's pure RNG. nothing we can do about
- If you are talking about getting hit and locked down - there are positions where you will not get hit before your charge attack is ready. I suggest simply practicing this fight for a while to get a feel for it. Aside from using a spell lockdown, there is no really good explanation for the quicker method without

Quote:

2) Rope Pole event: Sometimes attacking with the boy, casting with the girl and walking with the spite make them walk huge distances and sometimes not even a

This is timing dependant. If you hit the rope-pole right after starting to cast, you will walk a long distance. If you wait just a little, the distance is shorter. If you wait more than 1 second it becomes more or less random on how far you walk. I believe this is dependant on the frame-rule stuff. Again, I suggest trying it out a bit. Hitting the rope-pole right after starting to cast should be reliably long distance though.
If you get stuck mid-air, simply cast + hit rope pole again. That's usually the quickest way to recover.

Glad to see you running Smiley

[quote]1) Great Viper : Immediatly after entering bossfight and bringing boy in middle of the room, he starts casting and kills me in lock........ Just RNG?
[/quote]
- If you are talking about the spellcasts - that's pure RNG. nothing we can do about
- If you are talking about getting hit and locked down - there are positions where you will not get hit before your charge attack is ready. I suggest simply practicing this fight for a while to get a feel for it. Aside from using a spell lockdown, there is no really good explanation for the quicker method without

[quote]
2) Rope Pole event: Sometimes attacking with the boy, casting with the girl and walking with the spite make them walk huge distances and sometimes not even a [/quote]

This is timing dependant. If you hit the rope-pole right after starting to cast, you will walk a long distance. If you wait just a little, the distance is shorter. If you wait more than 1 second it becomes more or less random on how far you walk. I believe this is dependant on the frame-rule stuff. Again, I suggest trying it out a bit. Hitting the rope-pole right after starting to cast should be reliably long distance though.
If you get stuck mid-air, simply cast + hit rope pole again. That's usually the quickest way to recover.

Glad to see you running :)

Thyias

Edit history:

Thyias: 2013-11-24 03:34:35 pm

2013-11-24 03:34:22 pm

Thanks for this information Yaga... But theres another thing... maybe i am just too stupid for it Cheesy

but you uploaded your SavePack which is pretty awesome thanks for it. But i am using SNES 1.53 on x-64 and it doesnt work for me. It tells me the snapshot format is wrong. What can i do about that?

I tryed it with 1.51 aswell...

StingerPA

2013-11-24 03:35:37 pm

1) That's really just RNG with the viper. It's pretty rare, so we don't account for it, and it's all a matter of experience and knowing how to react if it does happen.

2) It depends on when you hit the pole during the spell cast. If you hit it early in the cast, you'll walk further than if you hit it near the end. Obviously, you need to be holding the direction you want to go with the sprite before hitting the rope pole, otherwise the game's flag for keeping you from walking will interfere with you going through the wall.

And as for the save state pack, try this version: https://snes9x-rr.googlecode.com/files/snes9x-1.51-rerecording-v7-win32.zip

Thyias

2013-11-24 03:41:14 pm

Thanks Stinger. Working perfectly right now Smiley

Is that emulator best for running games? Then i use that one from now on. But SavePack works properly and as intended Smiley

Thanks

Yagamoth

2013-11-24 03:43:16 pm

INTJ

I recommend using BizHawk, since it's more accurate than snes9x

Thyias

2013-11-24 03:44:45 pm

Is it allowed for speedrunning? Cause i know there are some which doesnt count for SDA submitted runs cause of lag reduction and stuff

StingerPA

2013-11-24 03:46:56 pm

Bizhawk is the best for emulating the games, but the save pack I made only works on SNES9x 1.51rr. The difference is about 20-30 seconds because SNES9x runs slower than Bizhawk, which runs at (almost) identical speeds to console.

The only emulators that aren't allowed for most SNES games are ZSNES and a couple of older ones. The current emulators that are used are either accurate to console or slower than console. Don't worry about SDA regulations since all they care about are console runs.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-11-24 03:48:10 pm

2013-11-24 03:47:23 pm

INTJ

You can not submit any emulator runs for SDA. None at all, you would have to use actual console for this. However, for practice and casual running they are fine.

On another note: 1p2c is also not a valid category to submit to SDA. Using 2 controllers is automatically considered to be a "coop"-run. And since playing alone is so much less efficient and effective compared to 2 actual people, a 1p2c run would most likely be rejected on the basis of being a "unoptimized coop" run.

Edit: Oh yeah, if you care about racing or actually accurate times, ZSNES is strongly discouraged, even not allowed for SRL.

Thyias

2013-11-24 03:49:06 pm

Omg XD poor i couldnt remember that.... But nevertheless i will still run this category XD

StingerPA

2013-11-24 03:50:48 pm

1P2C is an excellent speedrun even if SDA doesn't recognize it. It's not like what they say is law everywhere across speedrunning, just what they put on their site.

Thyias

2013-11-24 03:52:33 pm

Yeah i know and i respekt that.. Smiley

I hope i have the opportunity to play 2p 2c over on SNES9x or via BizHawk if it allows network play. Cause i wanna push this game cause its soo much fun. So if someone of you got the time Cheesy

even if i am low in acting both characters 1 is managable Cheesy

StingerPA

2013-11-24 03:59:37 pm

SNES9x does do netplay, Bizhawk does not. The problem that I'd expect is that there's always significant lag and you wouldn't get a quality run out of it unless you live pretty close to each other to reduce the lag. We could try and see, though, since I've never tried to do a speedrun over netplay.

Thyias

2013-11-24 04:02:09 pm

Well i guess the only possibility is Yaga and me.. USA and Germany could cause great lags and aswell 6 hours difference in Time Cheesy

But if we are online same time (i catch you streaming if i got the time) we can try

Musashi

Edit history:

Musashi: 2013-11-24 05:50:04 pm

Musashi: 2013-11-24 05:48:47 pm

2013-11-24 05:45:14 pm

But time flows like a river...

yo

Quote from Yagamoth:

On another note: 1p2c is also not a valid category to submit to SDA. Using 2 controllers is automatically considered to be a "coop"-run. And since playing alone is so much less efficient and effective compared to 2 actual people, a 1p2c run would most likely be rejected on the basis of being a "unoptimized coop" run.

Wah that's sux lol, how it can be a co-op if it's played by one guy?
But I see that they should allow then all games which can be played by one guy, I have in mind double dragon and beat'em'all in general, but meh, SoM is a particular game...

So, what's next, real co-op and sub 3hours 1p?

Musashi

Edit history:

Musashi: 2013-11-24 05:47:15 pm

2013-11-24 05:46:53 pm

But time flows like a river...

Fuck, double post...

StingerPA

2013-11-24 06:15:30 pm

It's considered co-op because 2 controllers are used, and there's no way to prove that there wasn't actually a 2nd person on the 2nd controller.

Real co-op is gonna happen at AGDQ, and I think we're planning on doing real attempts aside from our practice runs. I'll probably start 1c in the next couple of months. Sub 3 is the goal I'll be shooting for, but I'll have to wait until I actually do real runs in order to see how realistic it is.

Thyias

2013-11-25 01:43:13 pm

There are some stuff i "found" out and dont know if you recognized them. If you kill a boss and disable the 2nd controller, you can sometimes walk on even the textbox is on the screen. Dunno if thats helpful, but there are situations after the bossfight where you can run stright to the door and it saves a lil time.

Yagamoth

2013-11-25 02:09:21 pm

INTJ

Actually... That's one of the things I keep forgetting about. Do you know what exactly causes this? It would indeed be quite helpful after some bosses.

StingerPA

2013-11-25 02:26:12 pm

It seems to happen randomly to me, but I think there's a consistent element to it. For example, I have a different strategy when i kill the minotaur now, and before I changed it, I used to get that walking during the "You got ___ Orb!" textbox.

Old: Kill minotaur, stay on the boy, hold up
New: Kill minotaur, swap to the girl, hold up

With the old character swaps, I occasionally was able to move during the orb textbox, but now that I'm controlling the girl, I've never gotten it since.

I figure you have to stay on the boy, and maybe it has something to do with when you disconnect the 2nd controller.

Thyias

2013-11-25 02:54:04 pm

Well the things i figured out is, it works on some bosses. if you disconnect the 2nd controller while walking in any direction... but i couldnt make any effort about it cause in most cases, position is readjustmented...

Musashi

2013-11-25 06:36:47 pm

But time flows like a river...

Quote from StingerPA:

It's considered co-op because 2 controllers are used, and there's no way to prove that there wasn't actually a 2nd person on the 2nd controller.

Real co-op is gonna happen at AGDQ, and I think we're planning on doing real attempts aside from our practice runs. I'll probably start 1c in the next couple of months. Sub 3 is the goal I'll be shooting for, but I'll have to wait until I actually do real runs in order to see how realistic it is.

Okay I see... well then make your run with a webcam to see your hands! Grin

And yeah, you should definitly try to do a good run during practice or between runs in AGDQ, then submit it as 3 players run, since you all met sound nice, but I think that's funnier and better if you are at marathon... well meeting guys and be here than speedrunning. Wink

Anyway good luck for the marathon, will check it of course, I hope SoM is not in the middle of the night in Europe xD, will try to donate too if you make a good run ! <3

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-11-27 03:56:40 am

2013-11-27 03:56:01 am

INTJ

http://marathon.speeddemosarchive.com/schedule

^ "Note that start times are based on your computer's local timezone."

So it looks like it's going to be 16:50 for you ^^

Musashi

Edit history:

Musashi: 2013-11-27 08:41:13 am

Musashi: 2013-11-27 08:36:14 am

2013-11-27 08:32:21 am

But time flows like a river...

Yeah... damn middle of the day, not that good. Cheesy

I'll give a try anyway, np!

I was just wondering, first congrats Crow for your accepted run, you just won 2 mins from my run, I thought you discovered new strategies? So I thought you could improve it more. Tongue

Well, I can't wait to see the run anyway, want to check all the new things I am excited, congrats again, SDA deserves a good SoM run! Tongue

Thyias

2013-11-27 03:01:41 pm

Hey Yaga if you got the time we could at least test it today cause if it doesnt work properly.... then we can cancel it :/