INTJ
How much do you think does it save over the course of the run, to have 2 players on a screen transition?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean there. How does having 2 controllers active at a screen transition speed things up?
SDA Forum
So i have just recently picked up this game in Japanese.. I have figured out through testing with my Gamesaver that when the boss starts to explode and you open/close your menu no matter how fast it seems to stop the softlocking. Also I would like to present the Idea of a 2P2C run at AGDQ if we can get two runners of the game there I think it would be a nice run.
I'm already planning on attending AGDQ, and I know that Yaga and Luigi might as well. Theoretically, we could do a 3 player run if all three of us are there. I would also say that 1P2C would a very good run as well, so I think it should be run regardless of how many of us show up. Also, if a co-op run were planned for AGDQ, please put it near the end of the schedule. Seeing as how we all live a ways away from each other, it wouldn't be very easy for us to practice the co-op before the event. Giving us a few days for on-site practice would go a long ways toward making the marathon run much better.
As far as the softlock prevention goes, I think we actually knew that already. Yaga or Luigi could correct me if I'm wrong. The thing is, we don't want to risk letting a run go to waste just because we forgot to open a menu after the boss. Not to mention that there's some bosses that if they go right, you can't actually open the menu because they're casting magic on you. I wouldn't want to run a version of the game that would force me to use slower strategies just because it has faster text.
Yaga, I just did some quick testing, and it appears that the 2nd player gains you 19 frames of movement per screen transition. I don't have a clue how many screen transitions there are, but I could estimate somewhere around maybe 300? Assuming you have perfect movement, it would save about a minute and a half. Now when you consider that you're not going to save exactly 19 frames each screen, I'd say it goes down to at most a full minute. It's significant, but it's not too big of a deal. The 2 player run would gain a lot more from just having 1 AI to deal with instead of 2.
As far as the softlock prevention goes, I think we actually knew that already. Yaga or Luigi could correct me if I'm wrong. The thing is, we don't want to risk letting a run go to waste just because we forgot to open a menu after the boss. Not to mention that there's some bosses that if they go right, you can't actually open the menu because they're casting magic on you. I wouldn't want to run a version of the game that would force me to use slower strategies just because it has faster text.
Yaga, I just did some quick testing, and it appears that the 2nd player gains you 19 frames of movement per screen transition. I don't have a clue how many screen transitions there are, but I could estimate somewhere around maybe 300? Assuming you have perfect movement, it would save about a minute and a half. Now when you consider that you're not going to save exactly 19 frames each screen, I'd say it goes down to at most a full minute. It's significant, but it's not too big of a deal. The 2 player run would gain a lot more from just having 1 AI to deal with instead of 2.
I'm already planning on attending AGDQ as well and will be working on this game heavily until AGDQ so there should be at least 2 there out of 4 and on the Japanese cart its what I have and will be grinding it into Muscle Memory and with 2C your odds of being able to open a menu is pretty high i haven't had an issue with it.
INTJ
I will be attending AGDQ - at least I'm heavily planning on
In any case - SoM can't be a race in say, the first "big" Marathon. There are too many subtleties, tricks and glitches to explain, so splitting attention between two screens would be bad.
To be completely honest - I think a well executed 1p2c run would be more interesting to watch from a viewer perspective.
But, if more than one runner will be at AGDQ it would be quite absurd to ask the others to be sitting out while the one does everything, since SoMs most awesome and special feature is the 3 player coop - so I definitely also vote for practicing 3 player coop there. Also - what to do about the bosses.. I agree, if one would use the menu for another it would be quite weird I guess ^^
In any case - SoM can't be a race in say, the first "big" Marathon. There are too many subtleties, tricks and glitches to explain, so splitting attention between two screens would be bad.
To be completely honest - I think a well executed 1p2c run would be more interesting to watch from a viewer perspective.
But, if more than one runner will be at AGDQ it would be quite absurd to ask the others to be sitting out while the one does everything, since SoMs most awesome and special feature is the 3 player coop - so I definitely also vote for practicing 3 player coop there. Also - what to do about the bosses.. I agree, if one would use the menu for another it would be quite weird I guess ^^
I think explaining the glitches for a 3P3C/2P2C run would be the same for a 1P2C run you just sub char number for name to make ease of explaining but yea a 3P3C run would be great!!! And again about the bosses as I keep going through practice the availability to open a menu is pretty easy after a boss dies and it kinda just natural now if i think its worth it I don't know yet because I am not doing runs. If the time evens out then the cost of game kinda makes it worth it at least for me until I get a English cart.
I'm predicting a civil war between SoM runners to decide who gets to run the game.
For bosses, I'd recommend that one person use the 1P2C strats so that they can time the menus themselves. That would be the easiest way to do it since all of us would be very familiar with the 1P2C strats, and I don't see the bosses going any faster with 2 players.
Also, I can already guarantee that the JP version has faster text. I was doing some testing and I was gaining time out of nowhere with it.
For bosses, I'd recommend that one person use the 1P2C strats so that they can time the menus themselves. That would be the easiest way to do it since all of us would be very familiar with the 1P2C strats, and I don't see the bosses going any faster with 2 players.
Also, I can already guarantee that the JP version has faster text. I was doing some testing and I was gaining time out of nowhere with it.
I don't see an issue, if 4 of us show up one sits out and explains, I have no problem sitting out if this happens. If 3 show up and there is a multi-tap we do a 3P3C run. etc....
All it would take to work out the timings is do a run in a Room of the hotel one day as a practice and to time everything.... Just would have to put in some work and some of the bosses would be faster because tanks would be set up where they need to be to do the bosses with less RNG from the stupid AI.
All it would take to work out the timings is do a run in a Room of the hotel one day as a practice and to time everything.... Just would have to put in some work and some of the bosses would be faster because tanks would be set up where they need to be to do the bosses with less RNG from the stupid AI.
just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it
@cenwigf I really hate to be that guy but right now there are 3 incredibly great SoM runners planning on attending AGDQ and they have a great track record. If you could get a very sick time from now and mid august there's a better chance for you to run and hell even if you can't you could still be there to help out with commentary at the very least (not saying you won't have shot at running). It's not favortisim or anything it's just credibility and reliability.
@zewing if you read one of my previous post i offer to do commentary
And i have been testing more with the Jap version and I have found some bosses you don't have to worry about softlocking like Frost Gigas because if you get the quick kill he will be casting on everyone and atm im at like 35-40 quick kills in practice and not one have softlocked.... I will be keeping you all posted through this and runs when i start doing them about my findings.
And i have been testing more with the Jap version and I have found some bosses you don't have to worry about softlocking like Frost Gigas because if you get the quick kill he will be casting on everyone and atm im at like 35-40 quick kills in practice and not one have softlocked.... I will be keeping you all posted through this and runs when i start doing them about my findings.
INTJ
I'm interested in seeing how the Japanese run progress goes 
I also have a multitap, if that would be a problem. The main concern I currently have is, that my upside down controller setup would make me unfit for bosses.. Unless I learn that setup for handling my main guy in first place.
Edit: Btw. I think our runs are not that high level yet, that one with a lot of dedication couldn't learn it withing a month or two. There is still a lot to optimize
I also have a multitap, if that would be a problem. The main concern I currently have is, that my upside down controller setup would make me unfit for bosses.. Unless I learn that setup for handling my main guy in first place.
Edit: Btw. I think our runs are not that high level yet, that one with a lot of dedication couldn't learn it withing a month or two. There is still a lot to optimize
INTJ
Quick double post:
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/2622589
^ Stinger and I watched Stingers savestate run and tried to commentate over good movement and boss strategies. As it turns out it's probably only for already established runners who have a good understanding on how SoM running works, as we didn't try to explain any of the basics. So it's not the type of commentary we would provide for marathons
Again, thanks a lot Stinger for putting this run together, we now have a really good idea on how a strong run looks ^^
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/2622589
^ Stinger and I watched Stingers savestate run and tried to commentate over good movement and boss strategies. As it turns out it's probably only for already established runners who have a good understanding on how SoM running works, as we didn't try to explain any of the basics. So it's not the type of commentary we would provide for marathons
Again, thanks a lot Stinger for putting this run together, we now have a really good idea on how a strong run looks ^^
But time flows like a river...
Thanks for answer Yaga, I'll give a try on new glitches, seems funny to try this game again! ^-^
That's weird for amazon, I already purchased without problem (I am swiss too), so don't know, you should try ebay.de, they are cool with us.
Anyway a marathon run could be awesome, good luck on that, but I think Yaga should do the commentary, he loves the theory.
That's weird for amazon, I already purchased without problem (I am swiss too), so don't know, you should try ebay.de, they are cool with us.
Anyway a marathon run could be awesome, good luck on that, but I think Yaga should do the commentary, he loves the theory.
But time flows like a river...
Ah yeah... I know that, got this for arcade stick. :/
This is because we are not in the european union, fuck that. XD
Ofc we play video games, we are the best Secret of Mana players.
Anyway just watched your WR, I can see the mistakes (eh well... a perfect SoM run is impossible, we all know the random of this game), but it's well played, so I could see the new tricks and glitches, but I guess the Joch skip for example, almost impossible on a one player run... or maybe there is a way to bypass, I will try, maybe with a good timing, who knows.
Nobody tried a one player run with the news tricks? I'm sure a japanese player is trying a sub 2-hour run, they are crazy!
This is because we are not in the european union, fuck that. XD
Ofc we play video games, we are the best Secret of Mana players.
Anyway just watched your WR, I can see the mistakes (eh well... a perfect SoM run is impossible, we all know the random of this game), but it's well played, so I could see the new tricks and glitches, but I guess the Joch skip for example, almost impossible on a one player run... or maybe there is a way to bypass, I will try, maybe with a good timing, who knows.
Nobody tried a one player run with the news tricks? I'm sure a japanese player is trying a sub 2-hour run, they are crazy!
INTJ
http://www.twitch.tv/yagamoth/c/2326673
~1:54
I execute the Joch Barrier skip with basically only 1 controller. But as mentioned - the tricky part is to manage to get through the great temple without all the Spirits ^^
~1:54
I execute the Joch Barrier skip with basically only 1 controller. But as mentioned - the tricky part is to manage to get through the great temple without all the Spirits ^^
But time flows like a river...
Yeah... that's the problem, and for PureLand too, since the glitch required two controllers... I think it's just impossible. 
Or I have to find a way to clear the game with weapon glitch and not using the magic, but I think it's almost impossible too, too random, IA, blablabla.
Or I have to find a way to clear the game with weapon glitch and not using the magic, but I think it's almost impossible too, too random, IA, blablabla.