Secret of Mana

2013-05-27 12:39:08 pm

INTJ

Question: Why don't we simply skip talking to Mara in the city before the sewers? We have now 100% skip, even if the first dash past doesnt work. (for which - btw - only the vertical position is important, not how fast you dash)

luigimeister

2013-05-27 12:41:32 pm

Likes SoM far too much

Pretty sure guard is in front of the gate unless you talk to her. You could check if select skipping works

Yagamoth

2013-05-27 01:09:54 pm

INTJ

Actually I just tried it - the guard is not. And even if, clipping through him is pretty easy. It seems easier when you quickly walk up on the right and scroll the camera a little btw.

Up to now I always believed that the door would simply be inaccessible if you dont talk to her. But apparently I remembered that wrong oô

StingerPA

2013-06-01 06:16:02 pm

I was doing a playthrough of this today to learn all these tricks, and when I defeated Doom's Wall, I softlocked. Is that a known glitch with the boss? I know there's issues on the JP version of the game, but I hadn't heard of that with the English version, plus I've played through the english version probably 50 times and never had a softlock happen before on any boss.

http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/2364647

luigimeister

Edit history:

luigimeister: 2013-06-01 07:59:42 pm

luigimeister: 2013-06-01 07:03:11 pm

2013-06-01 07:02:32 pm

Likes SoM far too much

Not entirely sure what happened there. That's not even the way the J-Version softlocks. The J-Version just doesn't open up areas after bosses (as far as I know).

luigimeister

2013-06-01 08:02:00 pm

Likes SoM far too much

Also so what you're saying is that I could walk past the guard Yagamoth?

StingerPA

2013-06-01 08:47:39 pm

Luigi, I did the guard skip without talking to Mara in my playthrough today. You can see it at 2:42:30.

http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/b/411229331

pydoyks

2013-06-01 09:14:01 pm

If anyone is interested Khovastis and I got a 2:16 PB today. Our first completed run with the new skips/strats. http://www.twitch.tv/khovastis/c/2364845. Sub 2 seems like a possibility with 2 players.

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-06-02 09:16:10 am

2013-06-02 06:38:51 am

INTJ

Quote from StingerPA:

I was doing a playthrough of this today to learn all these tricks, and when I defeated Doom's Wall, I softlocked. Is that a known glitch with the boss? I know there's issues on the JP version of the game, but I hadn't heard of that with the English version, plus I've played through the english version probably 50 times and never had a softlock happen before on any boss.

http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/2364647

I have never seen that before o_o... Maybe, just maybe the Doom wall tried to cast the special attack at the same time you killed him? That's a very wild guess though.
Edit: The guess may not even be THAT wild. The status you get inflicted with when killing both eyes is very special and lengthy - and nowhere else to be seen in the game. Also, after each battle the game tries to remove all status effects from you (pretty much at the exact point your game froze). Potentially the game got into a "remove debuffs - all debuffs removed? No - Remove debuffs"-loop because it didn't remove that special status effect..

In any case, welcome to SoM, I hope to catch you running once in a while Smiley

Are you using Keyboard or Controllers?

Quote from luigimeister:

Also so what you're saying is that I could walk past the guard Yagamoth?

Yes, pretty simple as StingerPA shows in the archive - if you happen to miss it, simply Select-Skip through the guard.

Quote from pydoyks:

If anyone is interested Khovastis and I got a 2:16 PB today. Our first completed run with the new skips/strats. http://www.twitch.tv/khovastis/c/2364845. Sub 2 seems like a possibility with 2 players.

Nice, congratulations on a completed run. I learned it can go wrong pretty much anywhere ^^;... Also I'm going to hunt for sub 2h as well. While I don't think I can reach it, at least it's a good goal to have

[quote="StingerPA"]I was doing a playthrough of this today to learn all these tricks, and when I defeated Doom's Wall, I softlocked.  Is that a known glitch with the boss?  I know there's issues on the JP version of the game, but I hadn't heard of that with the English version, plus I've played through the english version probably 50 times and never had a softlock happen before on any boss.

http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/2364647[/quote]

I have never seen that before o_o... Maybe, just maybe the Doom wall tried to cast the special attack at the same time you killed him? That's a very wild guess though.
Edit: The guess may not even be THAT wild. The status you get inflicted with when killing both eyes is very special and lengthy - and nowhere else to be seen in the game. Also, after each battle the game tries to remove all status effects from you (pretty much at the exact point your game froze). Potentially the game got into a "remove debuffs - all debuffs removed? No - Remove debuffs"-loop because it didn't remove that special status effect..

In any case, welcome to SoM, I hope to catch you running once in a while :) Are you using Keyboard or Controllers?

[quote="luigimeister"]Also so what you're saying is that I could walk past the guard Yagamoth?[/quote]

Yes, pretty simple as StingerPA shows in the archive - if you happen to miss it, simply Select-Skip through the guard.

[quote="pydoyks"]If anyone is interested Khovastis and I got a 2:16 PB today. Our first completed run with the new skips/strats. http://www.twitch.tv/khovastis/c/2364845. Sub 2 seems like a possibility with 2 players.[/quote]

Nice, congratulations on a completed run. I learned it can go wrong pretty much anywhere ^^;... Also I'm going to hunt for sub 2h as well. While I don't think I can reach it, at least it's a good goal to have

StingerPA

2013-06-02 10:24:18 am

Quote from Yagamoth:

In any case, welcome to SoM, I hope to catch you running once in a while Smiley

Are you using Keyboard or Controllers?

I'm using keyboard with the 2nd controller set up on the numpad. I might start trying to run on console when I get access to my SNES next month.

Yagamoth

2013-06-02 10:27:35 am

INTJ

Nice, that's what I did at first too. I only want to mention - controlling 2 characters on keyboard is worlds easier than with 2 controllers in my opinion, so don't get frustrated if at first it feels really awkward Tongue

I'm also interested in seeing how someone else would handle it. My upside down setup is not necessarily optimal

TheAngryPanda

2013-06-02 03:25:42 pm

Speed > Safety

Actually I think your method is quite optimal unless you're playing games like I do (controller upside down normally). I can't really think of any other way to really deal with the situation aside from 1 hand on each controller which is arguably slower/the same.

StingerPA

Edit history:

StingerPA: 2013-06-08 03:06:17 pm

2013-06-08 03:05:51 pm

I just had my first completed run. It went alright other than 4 game overs, including one in the Mana Fortress. I ended up having to go back to my Frost Neko save and redo the Grand Palace skip. Also had an amazing Mana beast fight.

Part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/2396705
Part 2: http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/2396749

Yagamoth

2013-06-08 03:19:32 pm

INTJ

Very nice, completing a run despite game overs requires quite some dedication Smiley

I very much recommend utilizing the spell lockdown for fights like Vampire, Buffy or Hexas. It makes those fights much less of a headache once you have it down (much lesser chance of game over)

I have a writeup on how that is done in an easy way in the wiki here:
https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Secret_of_Mana

Basically:
1. Release overchage
2. Immediately after cast Analysis or Slow Down
3. Repeat

StingerPA

2013-06-13 05:40:19 pm

Just thought you'd like to know that I replicated my softlock from before. The only problem is that I did it on Spikey Tiger instead. I had the girl barreled, and I believe the boy and sprite were both normal status. I think Spikey may have been eating the barrel at the time he died, so that could explain it. Unfortunately, I was doing offline practice so I don't have a vid for it this time.

Yagamoth

2013-06-14 09:55:50 pm

INTJ

Hm... That may be indeed the case. If you think about it - in both cases the boss crowd controls your character into a special status where you cant do anything + a damage component

On the other hand, you are incredibly unlucky to find that out I guess. That has a to be a frame-thing

luigimeister

Edit history:

luigimeister: 2013-06-25 10:38:02 am

luigimeister: 2013-06-25 10:17:26 am

luigimeister: 2013-06-25 09:29:55 am

2013-06-25 09:22:05 am

Likes SoM far too much

So a weird thing happened yesterday in my run http://www.twitch.tv/luigimeister/c/2475274 I managed to open a spear orb chest immediately after talking to Phanna in the 2nd ruins. I have no clue how. Not sure if its useful, but its still a glitch. I know there's a chest with an orb in the ruins, so I guess I grabbed that.

Edit: I think maybe if you tap the talk button after a cut-scene you interact with the nearest thing. I talked to an npc in a similar way in that same run.

PJ

2013-06-25 10:27:32 am

Is PJ

Bahahaha. This game is the best.

doicm

2013-06-25 01:27:59 pm

?????

Dragondarch

2013-06-25 01:29:43 pm

Pudding%

Squaresoft, before they started making games that aren't brok...oh wait...

Patashu

2013-06-25 07:21:34 pm

So, when are we going to see a new Secret of Mana TAS? XD

ymh

2013-06-26 06:41:17 am

lol your reaction. now where's yaga ?

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-06-26 05:41:22 pm

2013-06-26 05:36:21 pm

INTJ

Huh... That's interesting - awesome Cheesy

There is indeed a chest on a balcony as in - in the same area.. I have 2 ideas on how to explain this. But first of my question - did you hit B at any point?

1) After the cutscene, for a short moment your coordinates were not set (=0,0 I think that's the top left corner), and at the same place there happened to be the chest and you immediately interacted with it after the cutscene with it.. Or maybe in the screen transition when fading to black since I assume you were still mashing B?

2) You manually somehow interacted with Phanna and the game stored the interaction-event until after the other event (the cutscene) was completed and executed the interaction-event at the first possible opportunity when you regained control over your characters. This idea seems possible, since we do know for a fact, that events are stored and executed at the first possible opportunity when you would regain control over your characters. That's how the Mana Fortress Barrier skip works.

In any case, I currently have no idea for a potential use for such a thing anyways.. But maybe, just maybe we'll find something in the future. Similar to how the knowledge of the map wrapping around was suddenly useful. Awesome Luigimeister, I love such mysteries ^^

Also it's quite the coincidence it happened to be a random chest you opened. Today I stumbled upon another person mentioning a glitch I haven't heard of before, where he randomly grabbed an Imp while attacking (those flying mini feary devils) and shook him like a chest, and right after the game froze. Unfortunately there is not more information on that.

And.. For some reason, I feel like the glitches and bugs in those SNES games only add to the charm. I wouldn't want to play a "fixed" and "patched" version of any of these games Smiley

Also, interesting to note: The Grey eye spawned-thing right after had the appearance of a chest for 1 frame...

Huh... That's interesting - awesome :D

There is indeed a chest on a balcony as in - in the same area.. I have 2 ideas on how to explain this. But first of my question - did you hit B at any point?

1) After the cutscene, for a short moment your coordinates were not set (=0,0 I think that's the top left corner), and at the same place there happened to be the chest and you immediately interacted with it after the cutscene with it.. Or maybe in the screen transition when fading to black since I assume you were still mashing B?

2) You manually somehow interacted with Phanna and the game stored the interaction-event until after the other event (the cutscene) was completed and executed the interaction-event at the first possible opportunity when you regained control over your characters. This idea seems possible, since we do know for a fact, that events are stored and executed at the first possible opportunity when you would regain control over your characters. That's how the Mana Fortress Barrier skip works.

In any case, I currently have no idea for a potential use for such a thing anyways.. But maybe, just maybe we'll find something in the future. Similar to how the knowledge of the map wrapping around was suddenly useful. Awesome Luigimeister, I love such mysteries ^^

Also it's quite the coincidence it happened to be a random chest you opened. Today I stumbled upon another person mentioning a glitch I haven't heard of before, where he randomly grabbed an Imp while attacking (those flying mini feary devils) and shook him like a chest, and right after the game froze. Unfortunately there is not more information on that.

And.. For some reason, I feel like the glitches and bugs in those SNES games only add to the charm. I wouldn't want to play a "fixed" and "patched" version of any of these games :)

Also, interesting to note: The Grey eye spawned-thing right after had the appearance of a chest for 1 frame...

StingerPA

2013-07-02 09:08:40 pm

I'm sorry Yaga, but you've been dethroned.

http://www.twitch.tv/stingerpa/c/2514597

Yagamoth

Edit history:

Yagamoth: 2013-07-03 04:50:02 am

Yagamoth: 2013-07-03 02:28:49 am

2013-07-03 02:28:12 am

INTJ

That put a smile on my face on this gray workday Smiley

Congratulations - finally someone beat my time, and you aren't even running it for that long Cheesy

I'll check out your video and then hopefully have enough motivation to challenge your run ^^

Edit: I just realized: Whenever the Watermelon has its mouth open you can't hit it. At least that's what it looks like in your video.
Edit 2: Also.. You still got Gold City equip? Nice.. As expected, there is still a ton of time to gain everywhere. Especially with knowing the boss' cues as to when they are vulnerable and when not Smiley