Secret of Evermore (SNES)

PJ

2012-12-27 09:23:50 am

Is PJ

Oh duh. Totally forgot about that. Good call!

MetaSigma

2012-12-27 05:55:54 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Well for one the Segmented run does a few things the long way and takes extra time on other areas that I pretty much cut down/optimized/etc. Plus the irony is the Segmented run only builds segments for maxing out dmg, and not full optimization. The irony of it all is the Atlas glitch in the long run isn't worth the time you can gain if you just level up crush/use call beads/and execute everything properly. That and it goes from SS to RTA which is kinda it's own category.

nitwit

2012-12-27 09:19:23 pm

Did you know about Saturn's run? It was done on emu, but it's faster.

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/secret_of_evermore_in_236_ss_glitchless.html

The run's time was 2:36:xx.

MetaSigma

2012-12-28 06:03:58 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

I'm very well aware of Saturn's run, but one as I stated mine is on console and not emulator, and yes I am also aware his is currently faster, but again, console, and not emulator. Thus they count as separate (I don't make the rules Tongue

I just follow them)

MetaSigma

2013-01-01 12:27:50 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Ok 2:30:47 is my new best and there is atleast 5 mins possible of improvements (Between RNG and just me executing better) and wow I can't believe I just chopped 10 mins off that fast Cheesy

zewing

2013-01-01 08:43:01 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Nice man. Hope you keep it up as that's a pretty cool run to watch. Also dat voice acting really makes my day Smiley

MetaSigma

2013-01-01 08:44:17 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

hahaha thanks XD and yeah I'm already looking into several ways to cut down on time and make things even more streamlined. It should be exciting to watch (Plus I have to practice one particular skip in general since it's a one chance if you miss it you're screwed thing :P)

MetaSigma

2013-01-04 03:04:40 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

And now the time is even further at a cool 2:25:18 with still 5 mins of improvement (Mostly RNG and some just me making really silly mental errors that do add up. As well as a few new strats that SHOULD drop the time under 2:20)

zewing

2013-01-04 09:03:14 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Every post you make gets me excited. I really hope you get sub 2:20 as that would be insane for anyone to even try to beat.

MetaSigma

2013-01-06 03:18:00 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Well from what I've seen sub 2:20 is possible albeit the RNG from a LOT of things needs to go right. The biggest being the dog HAS to cooperate on the trigger skips (Fire Eyes, Diamond Eyes) almost right away or it wastes a LOT of time (At least 10 seconds per attempt). I had a 2:22 in the works until I got a #Thatsneverhappenedbefore moment at the end boss where the bombs for some reason spawned AFTER I had activated all the switches. They stop dropping once they've been activated and because I didn't have barrier on #Barrierstack, I got OHKOed annnnnnd was like, wow...that's new. Crazy thing was I was about a min behind my current times and because I had such a TERRIBLE final boss segment last time I could have had a 2:22:xx. Oh well after the marathon there will be more SoE :)!

MetaSigma

2013-01-14 08:27:02 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

So I just got a 2:22:03, and there is potential to get a sub 2:21:00. Biggest factors though are dependent upon THE @#%#$ DOG Going RIGHT when I TELL HIM TOO. Really though I was a full min ahead and I lost it on the diamond eyes skip because the dog randomly sniffs in any direction...and he decided to sniff in the wrong one 7 other times before he went right. The route at this point is nearly full optimized considering the sheer amount of RNG just to get a good time, alchemy dmg included can cost a lil over 2 to 5 seconds per boss maybe more in some cases if it gives you the low end of the table. I'm sure given enough attempts and ways to find out HOW to make the dog a little more manipulable that should honestly cut the true time down by about a full min to a min and a half depending. At that point 2:20:xx or lower IS possible, for now RNG seriously holds about 3 to 5 mins worth of time in it's hands. The other thing is #Sniff (Also know as Bone Buzzards and their ilk). #Sniff is by far the most annoying enemy in the GAME. They fly, dive bomb you, and even if they hit you from above you CANNOT hit them. Oh did I mention they have INSANE hit/evade and literally can combo you all over the place? Even with Crush they spawn so rapidly and usually in narrow areas (As do Vipers...) that no amount of RNG can save you from the. They just literally say here take this dmg and like it...jerks...

I have messed around with something called the Neutron Blade strat in a few variations, but while it does have the potential to save at least 2 to 3 mins (ONLY on the final boss) the amount of time required to GET said blade and then go back down to the surface and level it up isn't worth it. that +20 atk power REALLY does show, if only there was a way to level it up much much faster in Omnitopia then even if it was a full trade/trade time for time as the Sader sword takes to level up, then you would be looking at, about 1 min saved overall. I could check out the storage room in Omnitopia and see if that's plausible but I highly doubt it.

The infinite call bead strat has been found and is a legit working strat now. The trigger was found by *AsFarAsIGet* and DEFINITELY helps make the final battles faster. Duckfist had a great idea using hypnosis (Queen Fatass...I mean Camellia) on a call bead to literally hold enemies in place and lets me pound away at them without having to hunt them down. Then using Flare (Fire-eyes) on the Final Rimsala's and Magmar. However there was something ELSE I found that I had to adjust on the final boss. If you 8 cast on Magmar there is a chance that when you kill him. Carltron will not spawn...that's right The FINAL BOSS WILL NOT SPAWN. I had this happen twice in runs and literally the screen flashed white and the background where Carltron spawns was very...laggy and delayed. So much that I ended up getting the boy stuck IN the background and still had full control. IT WAS HILARIOUS. So as with other bosses that seem to cause this issue, Megataur, Aquagoth...I go from 8 casting to 7 casting, but instead of using Crush, I use Call Beads since they do MAX dmg on each hit. It's faster, more effective AND saves me from having to use Wax (Barrier ingredients).

I'm slowly breaking this game over my knee, and each time I do it...I find new little ways to improve it. I've already gone from a 1:15 average on Philosiraptors to about a min average. Best time was like...47 seconds. Switching between chars actually does save a few second when you can Combo the enemies back and forth when you have control. More stuff LIKE that should help make things faster, but I have to find WHEN, and WHERE to do this as right now I'm only doing it in Prehistoria, in LIMITED spots.

So I just got a 2:22:03, and there is potential to get a sub 2:21:00. Biggest factors though are dependent upon THE @#%#$ DOG Going RIGHT when I TELL HIM TOO. Really though I was a full min ahead and I lost it on the diamond eyes skip because the dog randomly sniffs in any direction...and he decided to sniff in the wrong one 7 other times before he went right. The route at this point is nearly full optimized considering the sheer amount of RNG just to get a good time, alchemy dmg included can cost a lil over 2 to 5 seconds per boss maybe more in some cases if it gives you the low end of the table. I'm sure given enough attempts and ways to find out HOW to make the dog a little more manipulable that should honestly cut the true time down by about a full min to a min and a half depending. At that point 2:20:xx or lower IS possible, for now RNG seriously holds about 3 to 5 mins worth of time in it's hands. The other thing is #Sniff (Also know as Bone Buzzards and their ilk). #Sniff is by far the most annoying enemy in the GAME. They fly, dive bomb you, and even if they hit you from above you CANNOT hit them. Oh did I mention they have INSANE hit/evade and literally can combo you all over the place? Even with Crush they spawn so rapidly and usually in narrow areas (As do Vipers...) that no amount of RNG can save you from the. They just literally say here take this dmg and like it...jerks...

I have messed around with something called the Neutron Blade strat in a few variations, but while it does have the potential to save at least 2 to 3 mins (ONLY on the final boss) the amount of time required to GET said blade and then go back down to the surface and level it up isn't worth it. that +20 atk power REALLY does show, if only there was a way to level it up much much faster in Omnitopia then even if it was a full trade/trade time for time as the Sader sword takes to level up, then you would be looking at, about 1 min saved overall. I could check out the storage room in Omnitopia and see if that's plausible but I highly doubt it.

The infinite call bead strat has been found and is a legit working strat now. The trigger was found by *AsFarAsIGet* and DEFINITELY helps make the final battles faster. Duckfist had a great idea using hypnosis (Queen Fatass...I mean Camellia) on a call bead to literally hold enemies in place and lets me pound away at them without having to hunt them down. Then using Flare (Fire-eyes) on the Final Rimsala's and Magmar. However there was something ELSE I found that I had to adjust on the final boss. If you 8 cast on Magmar there is a chance that when you kill him. Carltron will not spawn...that's right The FINAL BOSS WILL NOT SPAWN. I had this happen twice in runs and literally the screen flashed white and the background where Carltron spawns was very...laggy and delayed. So much that I ended up getting the boy stuck IN the background and still had full control. IT WAS HILARIOUS. So as with other bosses that seem to cause this issue, Megataur, Aquagoth...I go from 8 casting to 7 casting, but instead of using Crush, I use Call Beads since they do MAX dmg on each hit. It's faster, more effective AND saves me from having to use Wax (Barrier ingredients).

I'm slowly breaking this game over my knee, and each time I do it...I find new little ways to improve it. I've already gone from a 1:15 average on Philosiraptors to about a min average. Best time was like...47 seconds. Switching between chars actually does save a few second when you can Combo the enemies back and forth when you have control. More stuff LIKE that should help make things faster, but I have to find WHEN, and WHERE to do this as right now I'm only doing it in Prehistoria, in LIMITED spots.

FFgamer86

2013-01-14 02:34:07 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

I hope you work hard enough to get that sub 2:20. I would love to see a 2:19:xx for this game. Would be insane.

zewing

2013-01-14 05:16:26 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

I guess Meta just got a 2:19:xx now. I'll let him post the details and stuff....but wow is he really pushing this game.

MetaSigma

2013-01-14 06:04:20 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Hahaha yup, 2:19:07 and I have seen enough mistakes to confirm...2:17 or even SUB 2:17 is possible, and holy cow is it going to be tight on a LOT of things. Again thanks to all of you who were watching and those of you that were watching from AGDQ I APPRECIATE it very very much that you guys came in support. Means a TON to me, everyone Smiley

Still...I want to drop it even further...I can't rest on my laurels knowing that this game can be 30 mins faster *Supposedly* vs the current segmented run, and on top of that I should look into a recorder so I can pretty much knock out that segmented run once and for all Smiley

Sonikkustar

Edit history:

Sonikkustar: 2013-01-14 08:00:31 pm

2013-01-14 08:00:23 pm

The Great Farming Empire

This kind of improving is the stuff I like to see. Loving the progression of your times MetaSigma! I assume you're going to submit if a run is near 2:17? :3

MetaSigma

2013-01-14 08:45:32 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Well first things first =P let me get a recording device (Amarec doesn't work with my crappy EZCrap Cap Card so once I upgrade THAT at least...) but I'd say FOR NOW yes near or sub 2:17 is what I would submit for. I've already broken this game in so many ways (MANY OF THEM SOFTLOCK!!!) so unless something else comes up that drops it even lower yeah...2:17 is the magic time Smiley

FFgamer86

2013-01-15 12:49:37 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

I remember a conversation where someone asked whats the perfect run time around. and you said youd be happy with sub 2:20 and im like 2:16-2:17 and your like, no not that low. and i was like you will be surprised :))

MetaSigma

2013-01-15 04:28:04 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

I didn't think it'd save that much time to be honest, but hey even I can be surprised from time to time :9

Ironically I bet 2:15 is possible IF the new strats I've heard about can shave time. I'm going to test them out here in a bit to see how credible they can be to a run and what they would entail.

MetaSigma

2013-01-16 11:35:20 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

2:18:48 and ironically I had perhaps the BEST final boss rush fight ever. It was smooth, quick and a few slight tweeks REALLY made it much cleaner. This run had a lot of great RNG to begin with but it kinda faded till I nailed the final.

Also, I have found a way to literally manipulate the dog through triggers without having to hope he "sniffs" the right way through the trigger. I'm still not 100% accurate with it, but basically you get the dog as close to the trigger as you can. Hold right *since that's what way you usually go* and as you're depressing the directional pad you hit select within 1 to 2 frames (it's REALLY tight) and the game will still push the dog THROUGH the trigger. It's a great little trick that negates sniff RNG but does like I said take practice since it's def a "feel" trick. All in all I'm proud of this run and I plan on pushing this time down as much as I can.

Sub 2:18 here I come!!!

zewing

2013-01-17 01:03:47 am

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Bro do you even lif.......OMG IT'S META "ATLAS" SIGMA

But yeah it's like every time you set a goal it gets smashed in a day. Also what do you think you can possibly get? 2:10?

Vandaeron

2013-01-17 02:27:06 am

The best defense is invincibility.

Turns out, audience lifting during the splits improves run strongth.

Living proof! (Also sore proof. Note to self: make a better lifting rule.)

But yeah, here's to 2:18, for reals. With a perfect run you could shave off 3, maybe 4 or 5 minutes if it was really best case scenario at all points, there should definitely be enough wiggle room to kick it down to 2:18 or maybe 2:17. Any lower than that would probably be the realm of a dream run.

MetaSigma

2013-01-17 03:20:16 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

a perfect run would drop 4 or 5 mins easily. The problem is that also means EVERYTHING would have to fall my way, including sniffs not doing stupid double hits, dancing fools missing, alchemy dmg doing high dmg ALWAYS and just a myriad of other RNG bullshittery. The other thing is just seeing what else I can drop time. Some of it will be simple (Not talking to the guy to get the armour or dropping Tiny's call bead meaning less time spent in mud peppers). Still I'm sure there is more to find on this game Smiley

MetaSigma

2013-01-20 01:59:31 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Ok how is this for a time? 2:16:47...and let me add that I can drop that down UNDER 2:15 >:3!

Here is what I've discovered. The Dog #SniffPLZ can be rubber banded across triggers in Omnitopia (The Heater room, Alarm Room) and that alone saves a minute and 15 seconds if not more. On TOP of that this trick makes having to hope the dog listens obsolete as I can force the dog to listen at will.

The second skip in Omnitopia is like the Iceless of Evermore though. It's basically 3 skips all in quick succession, and the 2nd one the trigger box is VERY LARGE meaning I have to be DEAD ON with the dog and he has to not decide to sniff or stop.

All in all there is plenty of time to be saved from better execution/routing a hair/hoping for better alchemy dmg, but honestly sub 2:15 would be a great run as it literally crushes the segmented time in SO MANY WAYS and on top of that it REALLY is a damn good run. Hopefully the final battle of the sub 2:15 is amazing because my 2:18 had a SICK end game battle, and my 2:16 was 43 seconds off at the end. THAT is how great it was!

Ok how is this for a time? 2:16:47...and let me add that I can drop that down UNDER 2:15 >:3!

Here is what I've discovered. The Dog #SniffPLZ can be rubber banded across triggers in Omnitopia (The Heater room, Alarm Room) and that alone saves a minute and 15 seconds if not more. On TOP of that this trick makes having to hope the dog listens obsolete as I can force the dog to listen at will.

The second skip in Omnitopia is like the Iceless of Evermore though. It's basically 3 skips all in quick succession, and the 2nd one the trigger box is VERY LARGE meaning I have to be DEAD ON with the dog and he has to not decide to sniff or stop.

All in all there is plenty of time to be saved from better execution/routing a hair/hoping for better alchemy dmg, but honestly sub 2:15 would be a great run as it literally crushes the segmented time in SO MANY WAYS and on top of that it REALLY is a damn good run. Hopefully the final battle of the sub 2:15 is amazing because my 2:18 had a SICK end game battle, and my 2:16 was 43 seconds off at the end. THAT is how great it was!

drakonsan

2013-01-20 09:48:25 am

I passed out just before you got to the omnitopia skips in your first full run last night. This game's RNG is a beast.
I'm sure you'll see sub 2:15 by the end of the week, Meta, but I wonder if you could get 2:10 with obedient Philosoraptors, Poser Vigor, etc. It also looks like you could save a massive amount if time if the computer simply didn't cheat by having mobs hit you from 2-3 sprite lengths away.

MetaSigma

2013-01-20 10:15:08 am

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Mmmm really it's more the flying buggers, it's stupid crazy that they can not only block your path, but can also dive on you without any chance of dodging, and on top of that they can hit you flying (Or so it appears) and you can't counter it unless you nail them with crush. Of course then they breed like cockroaches so you kill one and it appears 1k more take their place. 2:10 I'm not sure is possible...SEGMENTED MAYBE. SS would be damn near PERFECT RNG, and almost no cheesy hits. Not to mention I'd have to execute EVERYTHING down to a T. Doable? Very, in the short future? Hahahahaha...we'll see about that ^^;;