SDA "Mark II" Speedrunning Tourney Discussion Thread (ALL CLEAR)

2009-02-16 10:04:56 am

Never give up!

Honestly, Jackal is probably my second choice as far as the game list. I wound up picking Wild Guns mainly because I'm more fond of the gameplay style.

As far as H.U.R.L. (my fourth choice if you were to ask me) You want to wait to set the speed until after you've started a new game. On the duck, were you trying to use the water balloons? They're a waste considering the price of the next-strongest weapon is only marginally higher.

Also, I still say leave any shenanigans regarding the first Shock Troopers to Enhasa.

Finally, let me also be honest when I say I'm still completely shocked that anyone even KNEW about Dinosaurs for Hire.

mikwuyma

2009-02-16 10:25:50 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Siyko: Sure I have respect for democracy, I have only the utmost respect for anyone who votes for Jackal.

Also your memories of Dinosaurs for Hire will probably be raped the moment you replay the game. Sad

Aquatiger:

Fair enough, Wild Arms is a good game too. If it gets picked I'll probably just try to one-life it instead of being concerned with getting good weapon pickups.

Shock Trooper shenanigans are all mine, mine I say!

Rael96

2009-02-16 11:40:47 am

Quote from mikwuyma:

Fair enough, Wild Arms is a good game too.

I thought it was okay. Tongue

X

2009-02-16 11:53:51 am

destroy them with lazers

Dinosaurs and Cadillacs! Come on people.

mikwuyma

2009-02-16 05:36:21 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Wild Guns, Wild Arms, same difference.

Enhasa

2009-02-17 10:56:13 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Dinosaurs for Hire is sadly way crappier than Dinosaurs and Cadillacs. Wild Arms also isn't as good as Gunners Heaven. I love Shock Troopers 1 but I hate 2 (a common sentiment from what I gather), but I didn't know anyone but Mike already knew about this.

To address Aqua: Magical Pop'n is a fun and easy and short platformer about this cute little princess (see avatar) who has to save the kingdom or something from some bad guy. She has a variety of moves and learns more along the way. Perfect game for a speedrunning tourney as there are various movement tricks and shortcuts to shave time, as well as some light route planning, but nothing overly demanding.

Umihara Kawase Shun is similar to the first game. There is a little girl with a backpack (strictly for show) and grappling hook. There is absolutely no plot, she's just in these different maps populated with sea life and you just have to make it to one of the exits. Really really short if your goal is just to speedrun to the end, one of the best speedrunning tourney games possible since it's so short but flexible.

Hmm, you picked the ones with little girls.

Here is some IRC that supports Pop'n love. (yeah, the best games in this tourney are the last tourney's non-winners, including Jackal ;))

Quote:

<Breakdown> magical pop'n is officially a lot of fun
<Breakdown> officially
<bsidwell> The Pop'n girl is cute, too.
<jewyama> yeah magical pop'n is great
<jewyama> that's why I voted for it
<jewyama> and saved us from Darkwing Duck
<Breakdown> I was an irresponsible voter
<Breakdown> didn't play any of them
<Breakdown> voted for pop'n
<Breakdown> trusting in the taste of others paid off for once

Dinosaurs for Hire is sadly way crappier than Dinosaurs and Cadillacs. Wild Arms also isn't as good as Gunners Heaven. I love Shock Troopers 1 but I hate 2 (a common sentiment from what I gather), but I didn't know anyone but Mike already knew about this.

To address Aqua: Magical Pop'n is a fun and easy and short platformer about this cute little princess (see avatar) who has to save the kingdom or something from some bad guy. She has a variety of moves and learns more along the way. Perfect game for a speedrunning tourney as there are various movement tricks and shortcuts to shave time, as well as some light route planning, but nothing overly demanding.

Umihara Kawase Shun is similar to the first game. There is a little girl with a backpack (strictly for show) and grappling hook. There is absolutely no plot, she's just in these different maps populated with sea life and you just have to make it to one of the exits. Really really short if your goal is just to speedrun to the end, one of the best speedrunning tourney games possible since it's so short but flexible.

Hmm, you picked the ones with little girls.

Here is some IRC that supports Pop'n love. (yeah, the best games in this tourney are the last tourney's non-winners, including Jackal ;))

[quote]<Breakdown> magical pop'n is officially a lot of fun
<Breakdown> officially
<bsidwell> The Pop'n girl is cute, too.
<jewyama> yeah magical pop'n is great
<jewyama> that's why I voted for it
<jewyama> and saved us from Darkwing Duck
<Breakdown> I was an irresponsible voter
<Breakdown> didn't play any of them
<Breakdown> voted for pop'n
<Breakdown> trusting in the taste of others paid off for once[/quote]

JaggerG

2009-02-18 08:30:23 am

Jumping Turtle

I played Pop'n for like 12 hours yesterday. It's not exactly top notch and doesn't have many good enemies, but the moves and the level design are superb. Definitely a fun game to speedrun at least.

X

2009-02-18 01:21:09 pm

destroy them with lazers

Enhasa I'd never noticed until you posted that your avatar was from the game. I always saw it as this blue flame head dude with yellow eyes and teeth.

Enhasa

2009-02-20 10:11:34 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yeah I'm tricky like that. Avatars that are like puzzles to figure out are the best. spineshark had one years back that I just stared at for 5 mins before I could figure out what it was.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2009-02-23 07:28:41 am

2009-02-23 07:17:23 am

Never give up!

Week 3's voting winner is obviously Jackal, getting more votes than the other games COMBINED.

Week 4 is what I like to call 'puzzle/miscellaneous' week. Here's the candidates.

Fire 'n' Ice: If any of you thinks this is that platformer with the wolf guy who shoots ice pellets, that's Fire and Ice (PC/Amiga). Don't confuse the two. Fire 'n' Ice is about an island of ice that's being melted by some evildoer and you have to use ice blocks to put out the flames.
Fire Striker: Knock an orb into the top of the level, or into enemies, by attacking it with your character. Kind of like how pinball might look if the flippers were mobile.
Lost Vikings: For those who didn't get to Enhasa's last tourney, the game's premise is that you have to guide three characters with specific abilities to the exit. If you lose any of them you might as well restart the level. I'd have used the second game, except I don't think the second game got released on the Genesis.
Super Solvers Operation Neptune: You pilot a sub, collect ship fragments and shoot things with ink pellets. However, at certain points in each level you're forced to answer math questions (get one wrong and you take damage). That math part is the reason why this game is for this week rather than the shooter week.
Flipull: If you can't get to a piece matching what you've got directly, try bouncing it off of that corner on the top left.

I will be putting in my vote for Super Solvers Operation Neptune this week. I personally think the worst game on the list is Flipull, but that's just me.

Honestly, out of the remaining three sets of games, this is the PC's best chance to claim a week.

Week 3's voting winner is obviously [b]Jackal[/b], getting more votes than the other games COMBINED.

Week 4 is what I like to call 'puzzle/miscellaneous' week.  Here's the candidates.

[b]Fire 'n' Ice:[/b] If any of you thinks this is that platformer with the wolf guy who shoots ice pellets, that's [i]Fire and Ice (PC/Amiga)[/i].  Don't confuse the two.  Fire 'n' Ice is about an island of ice that's being melted by some evildoer and you have to use ice blocks to put out the flames.
[b]Fire Striker:[/b] Knock an orb into the top of the level, or into enemies, by attacking it with your character.  Kind of like how pinball might look if the flippers were mobile.
[b]Lost Vikings:[/b] For those who didn't get to Enhasa's last tourney, the game's premise is that you have to guide three characters with specific abilities to the exit.  If you lose any of them you might as well restart the level.  I'd have used the second game, except I don't think the second game got released on the Genesis.
[b]Super Solvers Operation Neptune:[/b] You pilot a sub, collect ship fragments and shoot things with ink pellets.  However, at certain points in each level you're forced to answer math questions (get one wrong and you take damage).  That math part is the reason why this game is for this week rather than the shooter week.
[b]Flipull:[/b] If you can't get to a piece matching what you've got directly, try bouncing it off of that corner on the top left.

I will be putting in my vote for Super Solvers Operation Neptune this week.  I personally think the worst game on the list is Flipull, but that's just me.

Honestly, out of the remaining three sets of games, this is the PC's best chance to claim a week.

ColonelFatso

2009-02-23 09:01:06 am

Bahahahahahah Operation Neptune, what a memory trip

Guys, vote for this, it's epic.

Enhasa

2009-03-01 12:55:08 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Congrats Aqua, I am extremely impressed with the games you put together for this week. I have to be honest, I thought many of the past choices were highly questionable, but this was a banner week. (Not every game makes sense for a speedrunning tourney though, more in a sec.)

Fire n Ice: This is a top-tier console puzzle game, maybe my favorite on NES. That being said, I don't know why anyone would want to run this for a weekly. There's too much solutions to learn for one week, and the solutions are way more important than execution.
Fire Striker: This tourney was worth it for me just to learn about this game. I don't know how I've never heard of it before, since it's exactly the type of game that would get underground love (it's by some random company, it's got nice presentation, and it even has a 2p vs mode). Anyway, it's more like foosball than pinball, and really more like an Arkanoid game. Unfortunately, just like Odama, it's a far greater concept than it actually is fun.
Lost Vikings: I like 2 a lot more than 1, but 1 is still a great game. Like I said in the last tourney though, it's not exactly the best choice for a weekly though (11 people did vote for it last time though).
Operation Neptune: This is the perfect choice I think. Here is what I wrote about Operation Neptune before. It's hilariously genius for a weekly since it's easy (made for kids) yet figuring out where to take damage to save time is light planning fun. The most awesome bit is solving math questions quickly, or intentionally missing them to save time (but take damage). I can't emphasize enough the genius of this choice.
Flipull/Plotting: Unlike Aqua, I actually think the best game of this week is Plotting (but the poll says GB and like many arcade ports, they get crappier, so who knows). Anyway, Plotting somehow looks extremely easy but is actually extremely hard (at least to me), which is grounds for being considered an amazing puzzle game. Also the music absolutely owns like nothing else. My favorite puzzle game music or 80s era short infinite repeat song.

Congrats Aqua, I am extremely impressed with the games you put together for this week. I have to be honest, I thought many of the past choices were highly questionable, but this was a banner week. (Not every game makes sense for a speedrunning tourney though, more in a sec.)

[u]Fire n Ice[/u]: This is a top-tier console puzzle game, maybe my favorite on NES. That being said, I don't know why anyone would want to run this for a weekly. There's too much solutions to learn for one week, and the solutions are way more important than execution.
[u]Fire Striker[/u]: This tourney was worth it for me just to learn about this game. I don't know how I've never heard of it before, since it's exactly the type of game that would get underground love (it's by some random company, it's got nice presentation, and it even has a 2p vs mode). Anyway, it's more like foosball than pinball, and really more like an Arkanoid game. Unfortunately, just like Odama, it's a far greater concept than it actually is fun.
[u]Lost Vikings[/u]: I like 2 a lot more than 1, but 1 is still a great game. Like I said in the last tourney though, it's not exactly the best choice for a weekly though (11 people did vote for it last time though).
[u]Operation Neptune[/u]: This is the perfect choice I think. [url=http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=24276&highlight=operation+neptune]Here[/url] is what I wrote about Operation Neptune before. It's hilariously genius for a weekly since it's easy (made for kids) yet figuring out where to take damage to save time is light planning fun. The most awesome bit is [i]solving math questions quickly[/i], or intentionally missing them to save time (but take damage). I can't emphasize enough the genius of this choice.
[u]Flipull/Plotting[/u]: Unlike Aqua, I actually think the [i]best[/i] game of this week is Plotting (but the poll says GB and like many arcade ports, they get crappier, so who knows). Anyway, Plotting somehow looks extremely easy but is actually extremely hard (at least to me), which is grounds for being considered an amazing puzzle game. Also the music absolutely owns like nothing else. My favorite puzzle game music or 80s era short infinite repeat song.

AquaTiger

2009-03-01 08:19:23 pm

Never give up!

Somewhat to my chagrin, Fire 'n Ice won for puzzle week. I was really pulling for Operation Neptune, but alas, it was simply not meant to be.

Week 5, as might be expected by those who remember Enhasa's original arcade tourney, is beat-em-up week. The games:

River City Ransom: Let me quote Chocobahn's review's title on this, "School seized, girlfriend taken hostage. Call the cops? Nah, let me show off my kung fu skill." If I need to say more, you are sorely missing out.
Sonic Blast Man 2: I.... THINK this is a license game, although I don't ever remember any such license. Anyway, this is probably one of the more mindless beat-em-ups, although a tad bit cheap sometimes. At least you can roll out of danger somewhat.
Streets of Rage 3: I am well aware this decision is going to tick a lot of people off. Streets of Rage (or Bare Knuckle, depending on who you ask) is probably one of the best-known Genesis beat-em-ups, and ironically, the lack of discussion on the third game is what led me to pick it over the first two.
Ninja Rabbits: I struggled greatly finding a good PC beat-em-up that was still accessible - I'm sorry, but Renegade just sucks terribly on the PC. So I thought I'd put in something different as a filler. I wouldn't expect any PC choice to compare to the beat-em-ups on other systems anyway.
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs: I originally was going to do The King of Dragons, another Capcom beat-em-up. However, based on the reaction I got to my Genesis choice for shooter week, I decided I'd change my mind and pull one more license game. If only there were some compilation that had this...

I will reveal my vote later, but anyone who votes for Ninja Rabbits is a dunce.

Somewhat to my chagrin, [b]Fire 'n Ice[/b] won for puzzle week.  I was really pulling for Operation Neptune, but alas, it was simply not meant to be.

Week 5, as might be expected by those who remember Enhasa's original arcade tourney, is beat-em-up week.  The games:

[b]River City Ransom:[/b] Let me quote Chocobahn's review's title on this, "School seized, girlfriend taken hostage. Call the cops? Nah, let me show off my kung fu skill."  If I need to say more, you are sorely missing out.
[b]Sonic Blast Man 2:[/b] I.... THINK this is a license game, although I don't ever remember any such license.  Anyway, this is probably one of the more mindless beat-em-ups, although a tad bit cheap sometimes.  At least you can roll out of danger somewhat.
[b]Streets of Rage 3:[/b] I am well aware this decision is going to tick a lot of people off.  Streets of Rage (or Bare Knuckle, depending on who you ask) is probably one of the best-known Genesis beat-em-ups, and ironically, the lack of discussion on the third game is what led me to pick it over the first two.
[b]Ninja Rabbits:[/b] I struggled greatly finding a good PC beat-em-up that was still accessible - I'm sorry, but Renegade just sucks terribly on the PC.  So I thought I'd put in something different as a filler.  I wouldn't expect any PC choice to compare to the beat-em-ups on other systems anyway.
[b]Cadillacs and Dinosaurs:[/b] I originally was going to do The King of Dragons, another Capcom beat-em-up.  However, based on the reaction I got to my Genesis choice for shooter week, I decided I'd change my mind and pull one more license game.  If only there were some compilation that had this...

I will reveal my vote later, but anyone who votes for Ninja Rabbits is a dunce.

mikwuyma

2009-03-01 08:52:36 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

WHAAAAAT?!??!!? I was going to play the games and vote for week 4. Why did you start week 5 voting before Monday? It makes no sense. I was actually considering voting for operation neptune too Cry

EDIT: Why don't I see any time listed for a voting deadline?

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-03-01 09:28:53 pm

2009-03-01 09:04:42 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I bet everyone voted for the Amiga/PC game even though Aqua was like HEY GUYS THIS IS NOT THE PC GAME since nobody reads posts, lol. They just see a poll at the top and impulse vote.

Edit:

Uyama: operation neptune is amazing
Uyama: I would have so voted for this game
Uyama: wow there are so many math equations

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2009-03-02 03:49:08 am

2009-03-02 03:40:58 am

Never give up!

Mike: I'm actually attempting to be consistent here. Voting was always intended to end Sunday night and game submissions for the previous week have always closed Monday around midday (furthermore, I've explicitly closed submission time each week). I give the defined overlap because there were several instances of "Can I still submit a time for last week's game?" on Enhasa's previous tourneys.

Besides, one more vote for Neptune would not have changed the result because it would have forced a tiebreaker and as I said before, the game I vote for, sadly, loses any tiebreakers. (My vote counts half - this way it doesn't look like I'm rigging polls here.)

Why is there no voting deadline explicitly listed? I expected people to remember previous weeks and figure out at least the day I close the voting. Consistency, dammit!

If you're going to comment about the week 2/3 transition to counter my point, I don't remember having the chance that Sunday night to set up properly.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2009-03-02 03:56:26 pm

2009-03-02 11:59:30 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Short version: Vote Cadillacs and Dinosaurs!

If you were going for consistency, wouldn't you want a regular deadline time since that would enforce a regular schedule?

It's not a big deal in the end regardless, though Operation Neptune would have been fun to play (I probably won't play this week as a result).

I'll post my opinion on all of the beat 'em ups after I play Sonic Blast Man 2 and Ninja Rabbits.

EDIT: Played all of the games. Here are my thoughts.

River City Ransom: Fun game with memorable lines, does get a little tedious because of the limited moveset.

Sonic Blast Man 2: This is pretty much your generic SNES beat 'em up. Few enemies, kind of slow paced, and bad music. Sad

It's not a bad game, it's just nothing exceptional. Final Fight 3 (interesting movesets) or Peace Keepers (branching stage paths) would have been better choices IMO.

Streets of Rage 3: There's a reason why no one discusses this game, it's not as good as the first two. It's difficult for all of the wrong reasons. To make up for the fact the Japanese version was too easy, the bosses now have 4-7 (!) life bars, some are incredibly hard to hit (Mona and Lisa and the true final boss come to mind), all of your attacks do shitty damage, they also have little priority, and in later stages, whenever an enemy hits you, you're almost guaranteed to lose at least 20% of your life. To make things worse, only hard mode lets you play all of the stages. I'm under the suspicion that people are voting for this game because of Streets of Rage 2. Don't vote for this game, you will make me very sad. Sad

Seriously, if you're still determined to play this game, just try playing the first stage on hard, it will be very painful.

Ninja Rabbits: This game is awful. I know there aren't a lot of beat 'em ups for the PC, but there has to be a better game than this. Slow, unresponsive controls, enemies that attack faster than you, and an inability to dodge anything that's coming at you. This game's only positive is the funny ladder-climbing animation (you can tell this game was made on a budget).

Wasn't there some hyper violent PC beat 'em up called Xcutioner? I doubt it could be worse than this game.

Cadillacs and Dinosaurs:

Developed by Capcom? Check.
Dinosaurs? T-rexes, Triceratops, and Pterodactyls, oh my! Check.
Cadillac? Third stage, check.
Uzis and Rocket Launchers? Check.

This game sells itself.

Vote Cadillacs and Dinosaurs!

Short version: [b]Vote Cadillacs and Dinosaurs![/b]

If you were going for consistency, wouldn't you want a regular deadline time since that would enforce a regular schedule?

It's not a big deal in the end regardless, though Operation Neptune would have been fun to play (I probably won't play this week as a result).

I'll post my opinion on all of the beat 'em ups after I play Sonic Blast Man 2 and Ninja Rabbits.

EDIT: Played all of the games. Here are my thoughts.

River City Ransom: Fun game with memorable lines, does get a little tedious because of the limited moveset.

Sonic Blast Man 2: This is pretty much your generic SNES beat 'em up. Few enemies, kind of slow paced, and bad music. :( It's not a bad game, it's just nothing exceptional. Final Fight 3 (interesting movesets) or Peace Keepers (branching stage paths) would have been better choices IMO.

Streets of Rage 3: There's a reason why no one discusses this game, it's not as good as the first two. It's difficult for all of the wrong reasons. To make up for the fact the Japanese version was too easy, the bosses now have 4-7 (!) life bars, some are incredibly hard to hit (Mona and Lisa and the true final boss come to mind), all of your attacks do shitty damage, they also have little priority, and in later stages, whenever an enemy hits you, you're almost guaranteed to lose at least 20% of your life. To make things worse, only hard mode lets you play all of the stages. I'm under the suspicion that people are voting for this game because of Streets of Rage 2. [b]Don't vote for this game, you will make me very sad.[/b] :(

Seriously, if you're still determined to play this game, just try playing the first stage on hard, it will be very painful.

Ninja Rabbits: This game is awful. I know there aren't a lot of beat 'em ups for the PC, but there has to be a better game than this. Slow, unresponsive controls, enemies that attack faster than you, and an inability to dodge anything that's coming at you. This game's only positive is the funny ladder-climbing animation (you can tell this game was made on a budget).

Wasn't there some hyper violent PC beat 'em up called Xcutioner? I doubt it could be worse than this game.

[b]Cadillacs and Dinosaurs: [/b]

Developed by Capcom? Check.
Dinosaurs? T-rexes, Triceratops, and Pterodactyls, oh my! Check.
Cadillac? Third stage, check.
Uzis and Rocket Launchers? Check.

This game sells itself.

[b]Vote Cadillacs and Dinosaurs![/b]

Enhasa

2009-03-02 03:22:09 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I would have gotten other people to vote Operation Neptune so it would have won, but I don't really care and I don't blame anyone. I like Fire n Ice anyway and I will probably play through it once and post that time.

There are actually some truly great doujin beat em ups but they wouldn't apply here since we don't want to condone piracy of games you can currently buy oh no Maur's head exploded again and mine will too if this debate starts here

PS vote Cadillacs and Dinosaurs because this game has motherfucking Cadillacs and motherfucking Dinosaurs

ColonelFatso

2009-03-03 10:05:00 am

SNES needed moar Captain America and the Avengers

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2009-03-08 08:04:47 pm

2009-03-08 06:39:25 pm

Never give up!

Alright, the poll for weeks 6 and 7 doesn't start for another hour and a half, roughly, but I'm going to explain the situation now.

Weeks 6 and 7 are RPG weeks. There's only going to be one game, but you'll get both weeks to play it. Even with that, I know a lot of people aren't going to have the gall to play these games the entire way through in one sitting. So depending on the game, I may be compelled to allow saving, at least that which the game naturally allows. (I will be up front - if I do allow saving, a no-saves playthrough will probably have more standing than a playthrough with any saves at all.) Judgement call on this when we find out what game is the final decision, and I encourage opinions on this matter.

In addition, some of these games are more freeform and do not have traditional milestones. If necessary, I will explicitly define a game's milestones at the start of the competition.

Here's the games that will be voted on:

The Magic Candle (NES): Traditional RPG - in fact, this plays a lot like Dragon Quest (or Dragon Warrior, depending on who you ask). I must warn you, I know little of the plot and it may help to know Japanese or reference a guide on what some things mean.
E.V.O. (SNES): Platformer RPG. Evolution was never this fun, but it may have been at least this challenging.
Shining Force (Genesis): Tactical RPG. Closer to a traditional RPG in its approach to the individual units than Fire Emblem was, in my opinion, although you can (and have to, I think) promote units later on.
Excelsior Phase One: Lysandia (PC): Traditional RPG. Simplistic graphics but quite a bit of depth. Plus there's no separate screen for battles - those take place on whatever map you're on at the time.
Spellcaster (Sega Master System): Platformer RPG. Seems to share minor details with Rygar (play style, menu powers concept) or Goonies II (adventure scenes - sort of), and somewhat enjoyable.

I will tell you that in order to get Excelsior Phase One: Lysandia, you want to look up Eleventh Dimension Entertainment's site. While the version on that site says 'shareware' or 'unregistered', it's fully functional. (I've gotten annoying messages past the 10-day period, but never had the software 'break', so to speak.)

When it comes to it, even though I like E.V.O., there is a chance that my vote is going to Excelsior Phase One: Lysandia, mainly on the fond memories I have of the latter.

Edit: One more thing. Sometime in late week 6 or at the start of week 7, I'll put up a bonus game (that may be worth credit depending on how many people play it) for people to play if they've finished the main game. As the only hand-picked game in the whole tourney, I will say it's likely to come from either Namco or Taito's game archives. (Yes, I have a good idea of what it would be.)

Alright, the poll for weeks 6 and 7 doesn't start for another hour and a half, roughly, but I'm going to explain the situation now.

Weeks 6 and 7 are RPG weeks.  There's only going to be one game, but you'll get both weeks to play it.  Even with that, I know a lot of people aren't going to have the gall to play these games the entire way through in one sitting.  So depending on the game, I may be compelled to allow saving, at least that which the game naturally allows.  (I will be up front - if I do allow saving, a no-saves playthrough will probably have more standing than a playthrough with any saves at all.)  Judgement call on this when we find out what game is the final decision, and I encourage opinions on this matter.

In addition, some of these games are more freeform and do not have traditional milestones.  If necessary, I will explicitly define a game's milestones at the start of the competition.

Here's the games that will be voted on:

[b]The Magic Candle[/b] [i](NES)[/i]: Traditional RPG - in fact, this plays a lot like Dragon Quest (or Dragon Warrior, depending on who you ask).  I must warn you, I know little of the plot and it may help to know Japanese or reference a guide on what some things mean.
[b]E.V.O.[/b] [i](SNES)[/i]: Platformer RPG.  Evolution was never this fun, but it may have been at least this challenging.
[b]Shining Force[/b] [i](Genesis)[/i]: Tactical RPG.  Closer to a traditional RPG in its approach to the individual units than Fire Emblem was, in my opinion, although you can (and have to, I think) promote units later on.
[b]Excelsior Phase One: Lysandia[/b] [i](PC)[/i]: Traditional RPG.  Simplistic graphics but quite a bit of depth.  Plus there's no separate screen for battles - those take place on whatever map you're on at the time.
[b]Spellcaster[/b] [i](Sega Master System)[/i]: Platformer RPG.  Seems to share minor details with Rygar (play style, menu powers concept) or Goonies II (adventure scenes - sort of), and somewhat enjoyable.

I will tell you that in order to get Excelsior Phase One: Lysandia, you want to look up Eleventh Dimension Entertainment's site.  While the version on that site says 'shareware' or 'unregistered', it's fully functional.  (I've gotten annoying messages past the 10-day period, but never had the software 'break', so to speak.)

When it comes to it, even though I like E.V.O., there is a chance that my vote is going to Excelsior Phase One: Lysandia, mainly on the fond memories I have of the latter.

Edit: One more thing.  Sometime in late week 6 or at the start of week 7, I'll put up a bonus game (that may be worth credit depending on how many people play it) for people to play if they've finished the main game.  As the only hand-picked game in the whole tourney, I will say it's likely to come from either Namco or Taito's game archives.  (Yes, I have a good idea of what it would be.)

JaggerG

2009-03-09 01:33:06 am

Jumping Turtle

At one point I pondered gleefully that I may stand a better chance due to enabling of a segmented run, but alas, it's still an RPG, not among my favorite of genres. :^/ Fire 'N Ice took me a couple nights, I spent a lot of time on Rock 'n' Roll Racing and didn't even finish it, but an RPG...@_@

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2009-03-09 02:45:21 pm

2009-03-09 12:37:30 pm

Never give up!

Quote from JaggerG:

At one point I pondered gleefully that I may stand a better chance due to enabling of a segmented run, but alas, it's still an RPG, not among my favorite of genres. :^/ Fire 'N Ice took me a couple nights, I spent a lot of time on Rock 'n' Roll Racing and didn't even finish it, but an RPG...@_@

I would most recommend to you the two platforming RPGs (E.V.O. and Spellcaster), in that case. They're more like "platforming games with stat points" than RPGs proper.

E.V.O. I understand way better than Spellcaster, but I can still go into detail on things as needed.

While on the subject, I thought this week I'd also print out my alternates in case one of the games had gotten a speedrun before the week began, just to tell you guys what I had to narrow down:

NES: It was such a hard call to pick the dominant game, but the alternate would have been easy - Destiny of an Emperor. I was under the impression that The Magic Candle was shorter and simpler, which is what it took for it to win out - I don't know how many people would have liked the somewhat more complex Destiny of an Emperor.
SNES: This would have been the hardest to fill. Big Sky Trooper would have been my likely first alternate. Barring that, there was at least one anime-based RPG that could have fit here.... except it's long and quite strict on levelling (almost as strict as Crystalis for the NES is).
Genesis: I tried Sorcerer's Kingdom as another option, but that game is exponentially harsh at the beginning. I figured that was too much of a turnoff to make it the dominant game. I lacked other ideas so it became the alternate.
PC: The only other game I could have even thought of for competition was King's Bounty, and I decided that wasn't really a good idea.
Guest System: I originally contemplated Hybrid Heaven for this. When I found games on lesser systems that were exponentially more suited (I thought) to speedrunning, it had to go from the list entirely. My backups were Golden Axe: Warrior and Miracle Warriors: Seal of the Dark Lord, both fellow Master System titles.

I will print out my alternates for other weeks if asked.

P.S. I just realized this, but E.V.O. is one last leftover from Enhasa's previous tourney. So you could say it's already got some official endorsement.

[quote="JaggerG"]
At one point I pondered gleefully that I may stand a better chance due to enabling of a segmented run, but alas, it's still an RPG, not among my favorite of genres. :^/ Fire 'N Ice took me a couple nights, I spent a lot of time on Rock 'n' Roll Racing and didn't even finish it, but an RPG...@_@
[/quote]

I would most recommend to you the two platforming RPGs (E.V.O. and Spellcaster), in that case.  They're more like "platforming games with stat points" than RPGs proper.

E.V.O. I understand way better than Spellcaster, but I can still go into detail on things as needed.

While on the subject, I thought this week I'd also print out my alternates in case one of the games had gotten a speedrun before the week began, just to tell you guys what I had to narrow down:

NES: It was such a hard call to pick the dominant game, but the alternate would have been easy - Destiny of an Emperor.  I was under the impression that The Magic Candle was shorter and simpler, which is what it took for it to win out - I don't know how many people would have liked the somewhat more complex Destiny of an Emperor.
SNES: This would have been the hardest to fill.  Big Sky Trooper would have been my likely first alternate.  Barring that, there was at least one anime-based RPG that could have fit here.... except it's long and quite strict on levelling (almost as strict as Crystalis for the NES is).
Genesis: I tried Sorcerer's Kingdom as another option, but that game is exponentially harsh at the beginning.  I figured that was too much of a turnoff to make it the dominant game.  I lacked other ideas so it became the alternate.
PC: The only other game I could have even thought of for competition was King's Bounty, and I decided that wasn't really a good idea.
Guest System: I originally contemplated Hybrid Heaven for this.  When I found games on lesser systems that were exponentially more suited (I thought) to speedrunning, it had to go from the list entirely.  My backups were Golden Axe: Warrior and Miracle Warriors: Seal of the Dark Lord, both fellow Master System titles.

I will print out my alternates for other weeks if asked.

P.S. I just realized this, but E.V.O. is one last leftover from Enhasa's previous tourney.  So you could say it's already got some official endorsement.

Zealie

Edit history:

Zealie: 2009-03-10 07:10:23 am

2009-03-10 02:28:33 am

E.V.O. Owns! Tongue

If I had the game I would have speedrun it for SDA already. (unfortuanetly the game is hard to find and if you find it it's too expensive for me ;p). Word on the street is that it goes around for $70.
I'm roughly guessing here, but I don't think this game would take more then 3 hours of time for completing.
I only recently discovered this game was made by Enix. At the ending of the game it looks like they might have wanted to make a sequal of it... but (unfortunately) that never happened.
Would be a happy man if this game got selected Smiley

Enhasa

2009-03-14 03:09:45 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Just because we already discussed this on IRC the other day. Not trying to claim that this is what should have been done or anything like that. I like EVO and it will win so I'm good. Aqua is doing a good job and this tourney is kicking ass even if people thought they were voting for Amiga Fire and Ice. Tongue

For speedrunning tourney purposes, much nicer to define an RPG as some game where you gain levels or upgrades rather than anything to do with traditional menu-based combat.

No effort idea for 5 games already on SDA that would have been good candidates: Faxanadu, Actraiser pro, Crystalis wild warp, Kick Master, Legacy of the Wizard. Also Popful Mail could work for variety but it's longer.

5 games not on SDA: Zeliard, Alisia Dragoon, Alcahest, Ys 3, Arcus Odyssey.

Me and Mike really wanted to see Alcahest. Square's best on the SNES! (developed by HAL who everyone loves)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2009-03-15 08:41:14 pm

2009-03-15 08:33:38 pm

Never give up!

Quote from Enhasa:

For speedrunning tourney purposes, much nicer to define an RPG as some game where you gain levels or upgrades rather than anything to do with traditional menu-based combat.

The thing is RPGs defined that way are such a broad category, even in the heyday of the old systems. I was also gauging what kind people liked more (and even with E.V.O. in the list, I'm rather surprised not a single person voted for Spellcaster).

Anyway. E.V.O. obviously won, but there's one more vote before I conduct the exit poll. This time, you're not voting for a specific game - you're picking a favorite company. I will be drawing my bonus game (which may or may not be worth credit depending on how many people play it - if a LOT of people play it, I'm likely to make it worth partial credit) from the company that wins the vote. (I have a pretty good idea what games I'm picking from, but do suggest them if you feel the need.)

I couldn't narrow it down further than seven, however.

P.S. Note the case of Rare, where I explicitly state 'oldschool'. By this I mean pre-N64.

I also considered Irem and Takeru for the list, but not a whole lot of choice in those cases so I dropped them.

[quote="Enhasa"]For speedrunning tourney purposes, much nicer to define an RPG as some game where you gain levels or upgrades rather than anything to do with traditional menu-based combat.
[/quote]

The thing is RPGs defined that way are such a broad category, even in the heyday of the old systems.  I was also gauging what kind people liked more (and even with E.V.O. in the list, I'm rather surprised not a single person voted for Spellcaster).

Anyway.  E.V.O. obviously won, but there's one more vote before I conduct the exit poll.  This time, you're not voting for a specific game - you're picking a favorite company.  I will be drawing my bonus game (which may or may not be worth credit depending on how many people play it - if a LOT of people play it, I'm likely to make it worth partial credit) from the company that wins the vote.  (I have a pretty good idea what games I'm picking from, but do suggest them if you feel the need.)

I couldn't narrow it down further than seven, however.

P.S. Note the case of Rare, where I explicitly state 'oldschool'.  By this I mean pre-N64.

I also considered Irem and Takeru for the list, but not a whole lot of choice in those cases so I dropped them.