Awesome, that sounds good to me. Just out of curiosity, is there any reason you + the rest of the SDA staff aren't being more open about what specifically is being planned for the site, though? 
I suppose keeping things vague can lower hype and expectations a bit and avoid putting unnecessary pressure on you all to get this stuff running, but it'd be cool to know what specifically is in the pipeline. I ask mostly because it's hard to gauge the direction the staff is taking the site in when everything said on the matter is so vague.
SDA Forum
Not a walrus
Quote from Paraxade:
Awesome, that sounds good to me. Just out of curiosity, is there any reason you + the rest of the SDA staff aren't being more open about what specifically is being planned for the site, though? I suppose keeping things vague can lower hype and expectations a bit and avoid putting unnecessary pressure on you all to get this stuff running, but it'd be cool to know what specifically is in the pipeline. I ask mostly because it's hard to gauge the direction the staff is taking the site in when everything said on the matter is so vague.
Well, the next big feature I'm working on is streamlining the submission/comment/torrent process, so that there's an actual form for it instead of having to PM/email an admin.
After that, probably making Public Verification a mostly automatic process for runs that have sat for long enough (we're thinking 60 days for now).
Most of the rest of the stuff on my plate is a bunch of backend tweaks and fixes that only the staff will notice.
Automatic game pages are an obvious thing, but I don't know how far out that's going to be, so I don't want to set a timeframe on that.
I wonder if people are more daunted by the instructions in the kb about submitting videos than anything else. When I look over the instructions in the kb, and "ways to get your run rejected" or how to get your run ready for submission, I feel like I'd either have to be a programmer or video developer to understand any of these things.
Bottom line: The average video gamer that doesn't deal with video creation will struggle with encoding a video unless instructions are written out clearly for them. The problem is that it looks too hard (and I struggle with it too). I have so much trouble figuring out which version of which codec to use, which is okay, which is too much trouble to deal with, how to get the video to sync with audio using virtualdub, etc., when it seems like streaming or just recording straight off of amarec (if possible) does it automatically for you.
As an added note, some people have approached me on irc, stating that they feel DVDs are required for submission. I think they got that idea from here: http://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Console_Recording#Recording_Equipment
...I think I lost my train of thought...I usually do.
Bottom line: The average video gamer that doesn't deal with video creation will struggle with encoding a video unless instructions are written out clearly for them. The problem is that it looks too hard (and I struggle with it too). I have so much trouble figuring out which version of which codec to use, which is okay, which is too much trouble to deal with, how to get the video to sync with audio using virtualdub, etc., when it seems like streaming or just recording straight off of amarec (if possible) does it automatically for you.
As an added note, some people have approached me on irc, stating that they feel DVDs are required for submission. I think they got that idea from here: http://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Console_Recording#Recording_Equipment
...I think I lost my train of thought...I usually do.
SEGA Junkie
Alright, I'm taking the first step towards putting strategy wiki pages together for the games that I run. I'm working on the Sonic 2 one right now, since that one at least had a base to start from. Each of the levels will have its own page, which I imagine looking kind of like one of these, with videos and strats for both characters, for an IL-level time or an SS safe strat.
Is there anything immediately obvious that I'm missing? (There is, I just need to know what!) I'm going to try and do up all the games I run with a similar template.
Is there anything immediately obvious that I'm missing? (There is, I just need to know what!) I'm going to try and do up all the games I run with a similar template.
<(^_^)>
I'm not sure if this was mentioned or not, but something needs to be done with the spam on the knowledge base... I personally find it harder and harder to care about it if it's overrun by more spammers and if anyone can make their own account without any approval (aka spammer). I think it'd help with welcoming new users to the SDA community if the knowledge base is more friendly.
ideally it would use the same authentication system as the forum. i've already written an api for use with the sda queue which can be expanded as necessary. if we all decide that we are sticking with mediawiki, even in the short- to medium-term, then i will probably have to do this myself if there is not already a third-party library.
i think requiring a forum account to edit the kb would completely eliminate the spam since there's no way they would be able to figure that out.
i think requiring a forum account to edit the kb would completely eliminate the spam since there's no way they would be able to figure that out.
Make it so.
Quote from mike89:
Alright, I'm taking the first step towards putting strategy wiki pages together for the games that I run. I'm working on the Sonic 2 one right now, since that one at least had a base to start from. Each of the levels will have its own page, which I imagine looking kind of like one of these, with videos and strats for both characters, for an IL-level time or an SS safe strat.
Is there anything immediately obvious that I'm missing? (There is, I just need to know what!) I'm going to try and do up all the games I run with a similar template.
Is there anything immediately obvious that I'm missing? (There is, I just need to know what!) I'm going to try and do up all the games I run with a similar template.
When we're sure what the template is going to be etc I'm more than happy to give you a hand with that one Mike if you want to delegate some levels to me
The KB could be re-worded to be a bit less daunting, but I think people need to realize that if you do a little bit of reading and put in a tiny bit of effort, submitting videos to SDA is isanely simple.
Before I started speedrunning I had never once attempted to capture and edit/finalize a video. I use one of the cheapest setups possible (video out on a Tv, to a dazzle, and amarec tv with only free codecs). And with Anri-chan getting a recorded run in order for submission takes very little effort from me outside of waiting on Anri-Chan to process the file.
I think SDA is doing great things and is on the right path by a wide margin. Just because something appears to be getting bigger or more popular, doesn't mean that the roots of where it come from have to be completely torn out of the ground and redone. SDA certainly could evolve and make things a bit more streamline, but we have to remember the entirety of this site is done on a volunteer basis. This isn't anyones real job, it's maintained through dedication and free time given up by the staff.
As someone who has come into the Speedrunning community from the Fighting Game scene, I can tell you that something growing more popular and more recognized by the masses can come with a lot of cons. The things SDA does well, it does extremely well and the core of that needs to be protected before worrying about making sure it "keeps up with the growth and popularity".
For my salt if SDA continues to be:
1. A community of people who raises 100's of 1000's of dollars a year for charity.
2. A community largely devoid of Drama, Assholes, Petty Internet Bullshit, and other negative things.
3. A community that embraces competition but does so in an extremely friendly mannner (sharing strats, intelligent discussion, and full of praise).
4. A place where anyone in the world can find a vast amount of amazing speedruns to watch and download on demand.
Then it will be more than a success.
The staff here doens't turn blind eyes when valid concerns are raised, and for my salt, that's more than we should ask. Hell submissions could take 2 years to get fully processed and onto the site, is that really an issue if the community is solid and boatloads of money are being raised for charity? IMO, not really.
Basically, I'm all for improvements and advancements with SDA, but let's not lose sight that what's been built up here over the years is pretty fucking awesome. And trying to make sweeping changes for the sake of growth and increased popularity in speedrunning may not be the best step forward.
Before I started speedrunning I had never once attempted to capture and edit/finalize a video. I use one of the cheapest setups possible (video out on a Tv, to a dazzle, and amarec tv with only free codecs). And with Anri-chan getting a recorded run in order for submission takes very little effort from me outside of waiting on Anri-Chan to process the file.
I think SDA is doing great things and is on the right path by a wide margin. Just because something appears to be getting bigger or more popular, doesn't mean that the roots of where it come from have to be completely torn out of the ground and redone. SDA certainly could evolve and make things a bit more streamline, but we have to remember the entirety of this site is done on a volunteer basis. This isn't anyones real job, it's maintained through dedication and free time given up by the staff.
As someone who has come into the Speedrunning community from the Fighting Game scene, I can tell you that something growing more popular and more recognized by the masses can come with a lot of cons. The things SDA does well, it does extremely well and the core of that needs to be protected before worrying about making sure it "keeps up with the growth and popularity".
For my salt if SDA continues to be:
1. A community of people who raises 100's of 1000's of dollars a year for charity.
2. A community largely devoid of Drama, Assholes, Petty Internet Bullshit, and other negative things.
3. A community that embraces competition but does so in an extremely friendly mannner (sharing strats, intelligent discussion, and full of praise).
4. A place where anyone in the world can find a vast amount of amazing speedruns to watch and download on demand.
Then it will be more than a success.
The staff here doens't turn blind eyes when valid concerns are raised, and for my salt, that's more than we should ask. Hell submissions could take 2 years to get fully processed and onto the site, is that really an issue if the community is solid and boatloads of money are being raised for charity? IMO, not really.
Basically, I'm all for improvements and advancements with SDA, but let's not lose sight that what's been built up here over the years is pretty fucking awesome. And trying to make sweeping changes for the sake of growth and increased popularity in speedrunning may not be the best step forward.
My feelings on The Demon Rush
I'm a little late weighing in here, but I decided it would be best to hang back a bit and then weigh in, rather than go in swinging.
RE: Posting speed and being up to date: It's no secret that we can be faster about posting runs, and that's being worked on thanks to UA's tireless work. Even then, yes, we can be better about this, but at the same time, we're trying to improve and this is on a volunteer basis. However, it seems like some people want us to be 100% up to date on records and news, which is not going to happen.
The Sunday Sequence Break is a show dedicated to speedrun news and reviewing the records of the week, and even some of their records aren't up to date when they talk about them, as evidenced by hundreds of people correcting Flicky, Feasel, and PJ when one fact about the record is wrong. I'm not saying TSSB is bad at their job, I'm just saying it's a nearly impossible task with how many people there are speedrunning and streaming. Every week there's at least 40 new records, and that's not taking into account how many records broken repeatedly within a week.
Do I think we should try to chase the newest records and constantly try to be the most up to date place? No, there are already places more up to date than us video-wise (twitch and youtube), and news-wise there's The Sunday Sequence Break. If you want a leaderboard, it's no secret that Cosmo has been working on one for ages and it would be senseless for us to try and make our own and compete (especially since we're not trying to compete with SRL). If SDA tried to be up to date on records, it would be a losing battle.
Re: The forums being used less: I think Heidman hit this right on the head. More and more people are talking on IRC and Skype to discuss strategies. The forum is still a good place to archive the strategies, but far from perfect. For example, if a topic is very active, some of the best strategies can be buried within pages of pages of posts.
This is why I feel that along with being a video archive, SDA should use its Knowledge Base and link it with the game pages so SDA can also become a strategy and knowledge archive.
People have been saying SDA has been stagnant and hasn't really changed much within 10 years (marathons notwithstanding), and I think this is the best move to not only make SDA more up to date and relevant, but also keep SDA focused on its mission of being an archive.
Now will this happen right away? No, and this won't be a quick process. It's not an easy task especially since the Knowledge Base is overrun with spam bots right now, but I think we can overcome such problems.
I have been talking with Mr. K, Mike89, and some others about some basic formatting. We also had a forum member contact us privately about making a certification system for the kb and forums (!), which is pretty awesome. While such a system, won't get rid of the spam, it will definitely help deter future spam when we clean up the KB.
While there are steps we can take to link game pages to an appropriate page to the knowledge base. The community has to step and do what they've been wanting for a while, help us.
No one person knows all of the current strategies for every game, so this is going to have to be a group effort.
I will be making a post about how to revise the KB sometime this weekend.
RE: Posting speed and being up to date: It's no secret that we can be faster about posting runs, and that's being worked on thanks to UA's tireless work. Even then, yes, we can be better about this, but at the same time, we're trying to improve and this is on a volunteer basis. However, it seems like some people want us to be 100% up to date on records and news, which is not going to happen.
The Sunday Sequence Break is a show dedicated to speedrun news and reviewing the records of the week, and even some of their records aren't up to date when they talk about them, as evidenced by hundreds of people correcting Flicky, Feasel, and PJ when one fact about the record is wrong. I'm not saying TSSB is bad at their job, I'm just saying it's a nearly impossible task with how many people there are speedrunning and streaming. Every week there's at least 40 new records, and that's not taking into account how many records broken repeatedly within a week.
Do I think we should try to chase the newest records and constantly try to be the most up to date place? No, there are already places more up to date than us video-wise (twitch and youtube), and news-wise there's The Sunday Sequence Break. If you want a leaderboard, it's no secret that Cosmo has been working on one for ages and it would be senseless for us to try and make our own and compete (especially since we're not trying to compete with SRL). If SDA tried to be up to date on records, it would be a losing battle.
Re: The forums being used less: I think Heidman hit this right on the head. More and more people are talking on IRC and Skype to discuss strategies. The forum is still a good place to archive the strategies, but far from perfect. For example, if a topic is very active, some of the best strategies can be buried within pages of pages of posts.
This is why I feel that along with being a video archive, SDA should use its Knowledge Base and link it with the game pages so SDA can also become a strategy and knowledge archive.
People have been saying SDA has been stagnant and hasn't really changed much within 10 years (marathons notwithstanding), and I think this is the best move to not only make SDA more up to date and relevant, but also keep SDA focused on its mission of being an archive.
Now will this happen right away? No, and this won't be a quick process. It's not an easy task especially since the Knowledge Base is overrun with spam bots right now, but I think we can overcome such problems.
I have been talking with Mr. K, Mike89, and some others about some basic formatting. We also had a forum member contact us privately about making a certification system for the kb and forums (!), which is pretty awesome. While such a system, won't get rid of the spam, it will definitely help deter future spam when we clean up the KB.
While there are steps we can take to link game pages to an appropriate page to the knowledge base. The community has to step and do what they've been wanting for a while, help us.
No one person knows all of the current strategies for every game, so this is going to have to be a group effort.
I will be making a post about how to revise the KB sometime this weekend.
Sounds nice.
Why not make a news post linking to the Sunday Sequence break vod each week even if they make a few mistakes? I'm sure most of the viewers of the website have not heard of it but would find it interesting. The post could write a bit to highlight some links to the more popular runs in the list for that episode (or whatever runs he finds interesting). It would fulfill the goal of the site being more relevant and up to date on the latest records even if it doesn't go on the game pages itself until verified right?
Why not make a news post linking to the Sunday Sequence break vod each week even if they make a few mistakes? I'm sure most of the viewers of the website have not heard of it but would find it interesting. The post could write a bit to highlight some links to the more popular runs in the list for that episode (or whatever runs he finds interesting). It would fulfill the goal of the site being more relevant and up to date on the latest records even if it doesn't go on the game pages itself until verified right?
Obsessicus Parrotus
As somebody that hasn't been speedrunning for more than 2 years, and has only been on this site less than that, but cares a lot about this site, and how much everyone has taught me about gaming and speedrunning(hell even hardware and recording) in general, I want to know what I can do as a the little guy. It has been something I have wondered about every week or so since last Ooctober: How can I, someone who doesn't stream but wants to help this site, help it? Just to make the aforementioned change easier.
Not a walrus
As far as the queue is concerned, right now the biggest thing the general public can help with is verification. I know we bang on about that a lot, but it really is true. Some of the games on that list have been sitting there for months, but we also have some plans in place to transition to public verification for games that have sat for a while.
The other thing that will need some crowdsourcing later is migrating the old game pages to the new system, but that's not ready yet nor do I have a good ETA. Still a lot of backend improvements I need to make first.
The other thing that will need some crowdsourcing later is migrating the old game pages to the new system, but that's not ready yet nor do I have a good ETA. Still a lot of backend improvements I need to make first.
I apologize for sounding a little explosive, but I feel like this needs to be said. This is a couple of pages too late, too but I'm very surprised at the number of people complaining about how hard it is to get SDA quality video:
ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN.
Like seriously, I dunno what you guys are complaining about and how you continue to mess it up (@ inverted colors guy) when Anri-Chan is available for use (and stickied in Tech Support). I don't even know how to encode video and I still get SDA quality without me or nate having to tamper with it, BECAUSE HE WROTE AN APP SPECIFICALLY FOR ENCODING VIDEO TO SDA. I don't spend any more than 10 minutes selecting the proper settings before my computer goes to town on it. I've even used it to produce 720p videos for YouTube by setting it to D1F2. Are we not promoting use of Anri-Chan or are people just unobservant that Anri is available? Does it not do a good job somewhere? Are people too ashamed to use it? Can I say anything else to drive my point across other than "SDA quality video is easy, wtf are you doing"?
I think the first thing I want to see changed about SDA is, I want it to be impossible for people to complain about producing SDA quality video. As a matter of fact, why don't I see anything about Anri-Chan on the FAQ or anywhere on the main site?
ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN. ANRI-CHAN.
Like seriously, I dunno what you guys are complaining about and how you continue to mess it up (@ inverted colors guy) when Anri-Chan is available for use (and stickied in Tech Support). I don't even know how to encode video and I still get SDA quality without me or nate having to tamper with it, BECAUSE HE WROTE AN APP SPECIFICALLY FOR ENCODING VIDEO TO SDA. I don't spend any more than 10 minutes selecting the proper settings before my computer goes to town on it. I've even used it to produce 720p videos for YouTube by setting it to D1F2. Are we not promoting use of Anri-Chan or are people just unobservant that Anri is available? Does it not do a good job somewhere? Are people too ashamed to use it? Can I say anything else to drive my point across other than "SDA quality video is easy, wtf are you doing"?
I think the first thing I want to see changed about SDA is, I want it to be impossible for people to complain about producing SDA quality video. As a matter of fact, why don't I see anything about Anri-Chan on the FAQ or anywhere on the main site?
HELLO!
Anri's AVI and OS limitations are also things to consider.
Now Yua... that could evolve into the silver bullet.
(because psst: both Anri and Yua break for me, and having to run Anri in VirtualBox makes it take forever, which isn't a dig at Nate or Snow at all, mind you. It just is an explanation of why Anri isn't quite the silver bullet you think it is)
Now Yua... that could evolve into the silver bullet.
(because psst: both Anri and Yua break for me, and having to run Anri in VirtualBox makes it take forever, which isn't a dig at Nate or Snow at all, mind you. It just is an explanation of why Anri isn't quite the silver bullet you think it is)