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MAS8705: 2011-11-25 04:38:34 pm
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
While other people are playing skyrim, assassin's creed, MW3, Battlefield 3, Arkham City, Kirby, and skyward sword, I only had one game in mind, and that was the beautiful chaotic train wreck that is known as Saint's Row the third...

Said to "out GTA" the Grand theft auto series (whereas they got serious in their games, Saint's row stayed silly), Saint Row the third does as many over the top things they can get away with in their game: from Japanese game shows, to a chariot race with Gimps, to playing with no clothes on or even playing as a toliet or a blow up doll...


ok, I'm getting off topic, so here is the actual discussion...

Much like the previous saint's row, it has a co-op mode that someone can join your game and help you through the story mode...  Considering how at the max level you can make yourself invincible to everything short of a car explosion or melee attacks, a co-op run could pretty much destroy this game...  Of course, I don't have much to say outside of this for now, but as always I do these topics to generate interest and see if I can get any takers...

Also for DLC, I don't think this is going to be a problem...  Granted that I don't think you can get rid of the DLC once you get it (unless you delete it off) but the DLC doesn't really change the game much as Professor Genki's gun is not as fun as a rocket launcher, and his vehicle is more of a gimmick, so as long as the DLC isn't used, there shouldn't be any separate categories...

Also to make things more interesting... I got the players guide and found out one interesting thing...  A tester by the name of Chris DuBois had actually performed a speed run for the game and was able to get a time of 4:10:56 as of 10/19/11...

Considering how my comp crashed as I was typing this, I'm going to quickly summarize it...

Mission 1:
Pick up $100 from gang kills and stand behind swat riot shield forces to kill them quickly

Mission 3:
There's a gang operation on the north side of downtown just north of the rim jobs.  If you have $200, buy the Kobra up to level 2.  Use the Bear at the base to kill the guards faster and use guided missiles on the tanks as they can kill them in one hit whereas dumb fire takes four...

mission 4:
There's a spot opposite of the park where you can get $2000 (collectible and gang operation) and use alley ways since it is faster than the GPS route to Rim Jobs

Mission 5: While in the basement, kill as many enemies as possible before moving to the stairs.  Not all but many are required kills.  Kill the enemies from the landing helicopter when it arrives as it will stop the spawns from the elevator.

Mission 8:  During city takeover when you buy the friendly fire, upgrade the Kobra to level 4 if you have the cash.  If you do, the Genki will be a cake walk as it will one shot kill any mascot

Mission 13: a well placed grenade when the brute comes out the elevator will kill it or reduce his health to be killed off quickly

Mission 14: Buy RPGs before going to Angel.  Use the RPGs to kill the brute fast and use the minigun to kill the flamethrower brutes when you run out of rockets

Mission 31: Don't stand near the air conditioners as the snipers tend to blow them up

Mission 33: be sure to stun or kill snipers to limit the damage you take

Mission 35: blowing up the ac units on the roof distracts or takes out the deckers and prevents you from taking damage when running through

Mission 37: use the shock hammer from a decker specialist to clear out enemies, but mind the explosives

Mission 38: use a RPG on the brute to kills fast

Mission 40: Using the tank to  clear the groups of enemies

Mission 41: repeatedly use the sonic boom to stagger the zombies so you can fully charge to take them out

Mission 43: Use RPG to kill Brutes fast

So as you can tell, the majority of the strategies here is to use RPGs to kill the big bad brutes and a few small things that seems logical...  Granted I don't know if it is in the right order, but anyone planning to run the game should understand...

Finally for the ending (SPOILERS!!! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!!! there are two that can be done...  Either you a) chase and kill killbane while the ladies die from an explosion or b) save the ladies and let killbane escape...

While almost like GTA4 in regards of the "do you get revenge or not"  this choice can lead to a different mission ending...

If you go with A), then you go race through the street avoiding fire from STAG's helicarrier, fly up there to destroy the cannons and set up charges, and fight a fighter jet as it flying in and out of view...  if you select B), then you go to Mars (just go with it), deactivate defense gates, set up charges, and fight killbane as he chases you in a cave...

Personally, I like A alot more since it seems easier to just go and set the charges without having to fight your way through as you probably will have to in B and the fight with the jet is actually easier... Outside of people surrounding you, you get an easy shot on the jet and hijack another jet when you finish (or jump off the helicarrier?), whereas killbane can only be damaged by space rocks and you have to lure him towards them, do enough damage to do a quicktime event and rinse and repeat three times.  Of course this is too early to say, but I'm ready to start dismantling this game whenever anyone else is...
Thread title:  
I think a co op run would be most interesting, as the location based objectives only require one player, so you can have player 2 going to objective B while player 1 finished objective A, and you can have one player buy upgrades while the other starts a mission.
Anyone still interested in this? I really loved this game, and ive never played it multiplayer, as noone of my RL friends owns it, but i think a SS coop run could be awesome as hell Smiley
Is it possible to run it on different Platforms? I own it for pc (as i dont own any consoles) and I hope the platform thing doesnt give us problems ...

cu, CBenni
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
For any and all games I post on have my interest until either I or someone else finishes the game and it gets accepted to SDA.

That said though, if you only have a PC, then you can only speed run it with anyone else who has the PC version too, no cross platforming here...  Of course though, if you wish to plan solo, then by all means, we can talk about how to finish the stages on your own and what to do to finish quickly.
Edit history:
Corrodias: 2012-06-02 02:48:51 am
Just thought i'd chime in that the extra planning and optimization around having a second player sounds very interesting. Wouldn't it be fun to have footage from both players? It's just a shame that the most efficient way to choose a character appearance is to use the default.

I'm no speedrunner, though i'm a fan of spectating. Playing a game for hours and hours, trying to become more efficient, would quickly drive me to madness. I can't promise to be of any help with a SR3 run, but who knows, i might have an occasional nugget of wisdom to share.

For starters, note that you can extract the mission scripts, that is, the Lua code that operates the missions and their objectives, from the PC version. They may be useful at times for figuring out the best way to do something. The required tools are here:
@MAS8705, isnt it possible or isnt it allowed by SDA rules?
@Corrodias, thank you Wink Lets see if it helps

cu, CBenni
I guess SS will be way to hard lol. Im playing on easy mode, and some missions require to tank tons and tons of bullets, not every run will be good enough. For a game of that length, having 20 missions where you could possibly die is way to much imo. I think a segmented run would be way easier for a a start.

cu, CBenni
Edit history:
MAS8705: 2012-06-02 09:58:04 am
MAS8705: 2012-06-02 09:55:45 am
MAS8705: 2012-06-02 09:52:16 am
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Well to be honest CBenni, it is more to the idea of how it is impossible for PC players to play with those who are planning on a 360 or PS3 (except in very rare cases).  That said though, if you do 'Co-Op' speed runs, you can do so just so as long as you and the runner record your own footage.  Therefore if you want to do a co-op speed run on the PC, you would need to find someone else who would be able to do the run on a PC too.

For example: Switchball & Doom.  Both runs are with two players and those require both players to record in order to confirm that there was no cheating.

As for the run, it is your call as how you would approach it:  If you do SS, then best of luck on your endurance run, and remember you are techincally allowed to die a few times since it is probably bound to happen by mistake, however if you do Segments, then you have to make sure each segment is flawless with little to no mistakes and no deaths.  Speedrunning 101 I know, but just know that if you need help with the planning, at least I'm here to help, and perhaps if the game generates interest, more will help out too.

Edit: Also one other thing to add on:  While scripts can help with planning, when you do the run, I would advised to take it off.  If I recall correctly, scripts were taken off due to something or another.  I forgot the history.
Edit history:
CBenni: 2012-06-02 10:30:17 am
CBenni: 2012-06-02 10:20:22 am
@Console/PC stuff: i dont get it Cheesy What is the problem if you run it Coop on different platforms, as long as both players record?

Not sure if scripts are useful at all. Ive been trying to find glitches for faster movement, but i havent found any yet. Im not even sure if constant jumping helps?
And I know what the difference between SS/segmented is, thank you Wink
Currently, im simply playing the game to remember all the missions, next up will be exact route planning. It is very important to find out what series of Missions reduce the traveling time between missions and what we require. I guess all of the game can be done with only the standard pistol (try to upgrade asap) and weapons given for free during the game (such as temporary weapons during missions).
Finding a fast/good car early is important aswell! I guess a cop car is the best we can get, as it is friggin fast and really awesome to control, the attrazione is even faster, but hard to control and hard to find aswell. Probably we'll have to switch inbetween, depending if were going for a stealth or a brute force level.


just found these OoB glitches Smiley

cu, CBenni
On top of that, well need to discuss the choices done throughout the game, mostly its gonna be the short-term benefits, not the long-term, obviously.
In the end, id say kill Killbane, the other mission lasts AGES Wink

cu, CBenni
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Yeah... While I can't say for sure just which ending would be faster, it might as well be that the helicarrier mission could be faster, still this needs to be tested.  As I said at top it goes one of two ways:

A) Go to the mission marker, then you go race through the street avoiding fire from STAG's helicarrier, fly up there to destroy the cannons and set up charges, and fight a fighter jet as it flying in and out of view... 

B) Start immediately on Mars, deactivate defense gates, set up charges, and fight killbane as he chases you in a cave...

As for the choices made throughout the game, here is what I can tell:  Do the choices that get you cash.  While it would be nice to get respect, it would be better to get the best weapons you can get, upgrade them and get more RPG rounds, while you need the cash to actually get upgrades.  As for the other two choices I can recall:  Get the upgrade for discounts at gun stores (because there is no reason to get the car upgrade) and spare Killbane when you demask him to get the fist (otherwise if it isn't used, find out which scene is shorter).

By all means, if we start planning and executing, we can come up with a reasonable route plan to get the game beaten.  I'm away from my house, but when I get back, I'll post the time that was posted by Primagames.  Also be sure to look at my first post as I posted their "Speed Run Tips".
I don't think there'd be a "problem" with multiplatform coop runs, persay. It's just that this game specifically doesn't support that.

The apocafist is powerful, but pretty slow. I don't see it outdoing guns on humans. It could be useful on brutes -- i don't know how they react to it -- but it's dangerous to get that close.
After working on a save editor for a couple of weeks, and in that time launching the game and loading saves many, many times, i have come to the conclusion that you'd be a fool to try to single-segment this game if only for how unstable it is. Tongue Even when i haven't broken anything, it has crashed on me at least five times in just the last few days.
It has never crashed on me on my main pc, only on my notebook...
I guess its a memory thing?

cu, CBenni
I have little doubt that it will crash if it runs out of memory. This system has plenty of ram, but of course as a 32-bit process, the thing only gets, what, a 2gb address space either way.

Well, i suppose the crashing might not really be a problem for SS runs; it may only have happened shortly after loading a game. Hard to remember the pattern.
Mega Black Label
Is there still interest in this? I have a couple of ideas I'd like to brainstorm.
SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)
Well by all means, you can leave your thoughts here and then we can discuss it further if you like.
Mega Black Label
I was thinking about some of the strats from the Prima guide (which I should get around to buying).

It recommends upgrading the Kobra. I can see why, it has pretty high accuracy, but long-term, wouldn't the Shepherds be a better investment? The explosive rounds are pretty good against STAG troopers in act 2 and 3 and you can get level 4 as early as mission 5 I think.

Also, until you unlock the rocket launcher in mission 14, the UAV drone is pretty good for brutes. I found a little technique for the mission where you go to Planet Saints. By parking your car in front of the door, the brute can't get in (unless the car bugs into the wall. Happened to me twice.) and the drone missile takes out the brute and both cars of dudes.

Thats all I can think of for the moment. I might do a semi-casual run just to try out different things.
Most important, we need to decide in which order we complete the missions, as that can save a lot of traveling. I need to find a way to delete/remove/redownload the game files in order to delete the genki funpack DLC, else well need to do a run with it (costing quite a bit of time, for me in my last routerun it was like 1.5km of travel and 2-3 minutes of gameplay+1-2 minutes of loading and mission sucess screens. Basically a total of 15(?) minutes lost. Im still not sure if SS or seged, the game very rarely crashes on my main PC (way more often on my laptop; Im almost sure its memory issues)
However, Ill have to finish my exams first until I can start speedrunning again (the few days that I have inbetween my exams and the next semester >_<

cu, CBenni
I would be up for a practice run if I could get a couple other people to help map out a basic route.
The problem is, you can only play if you have the exactly same version of the game. That is, XBox players only with XBox, PC (Uncut) only with PC (Uncut) and PC (reduced violence) only with PC (reduced violence) players which makes it hard to pair up. What do you have? I guess it is possible to find an uncut version for me, I play on PC. The best run will be made in a DLC-less game, however I am pretty sure coop doesnt work in hacked games, as there is no way to uninstall the (pre-installed) DLCs
cu, CBenni
Hey! I was looking for games that seemed like fun to run and POW see this thread, Has anyone figured out routing (distance and ect.) yet? If not I'd be willing to look into the quickest routes between missions and whatnot.  Any ideas I can check off or should I just start from scratch?
Spent six months QA Testing this game, I may be able to give tips and tricks on how to complete the game as fast as possible, altought it's been a year since I played it...

For the upgrades: The only really useful thing is upgrading the default pistol and taking personnal boosts (stamina is pretty mandatory for a speedrun). Anything else is fluff. Unless it's tested that something saves times in certain missions, armor-piecing headshots from the default pistol maxed is enough to breeze through the game quickly.
@Jaltos I'm pretty sure you just saved me a day of testing upgrades! Thanks a ton! Is there any major bugs that you know of that made it to launch. No-Clipping, mission skip, ect.?
We were pretty mean on thoses issues. There may be some left, but they wouldn't be easy to reproduce. If Co-op is used (How would that work for a speedrun? Double-vision for the videos?), the missions can  be breezed through with one person doing the objective and the other advancing to the next. This was abused by us at the studio to be able to do 100% playthrough (including achievements and challenges) in one day (people starting at midnight and finishing at 12, and other people taking their place at 12 and finishing at midnight, everytime).

We had very little bugs where it would allow us to skip missions. What we had was bugs that allows us to hit a brick wall when trying to finish missions (Objectives not spawning).

For money, something that's not very run-useable, we used a Barn stunt (Can't remember the correct name. It's flying between two close buildings) at the airport which gives thousands in mere seconds. But you have to go to the airport, get in a helicopter, and fly back and forth between poles...

I would need to load the game again and try to see what's faster for missions, but just a head's up: I've been playing it on PC.

Quick jolt to my memory: In mission 5, you can jump off the helicopter and hold Forward to dive directly in the pool, thus removing the need to open your parachute.