Running NTSC consoles in Europe

Edit history:

Exchord92: 2012-10-15 09:24:10 am

2012-10-14 07:45:55 am

Lately I've decided to get more involved in the speedrunning community (probably by running DK64 and Banjo-Kazooie), but my problem right now is that my PAL N64 games run much slower than NTSC. That means I'll have to buy some American cartridges and possibly a TV that supports NTSC. I recently got an American N64 with a power supply from ebay and I have this transformer to run it in Europe:

So here's my problem: Converting from 230V to 120V works fine with this equipment. But the output frequency is 50Hz while the American power supply seems to require 60Hz, so I'm not sure if games can run properly with it. I haven't gotten any games for that console yet, but I ordered DK64 and I'm waiting for it to arrive. So in the meantime I'd like to know if the N64 could run properly without getting damaged by the transformer or if I should get some power adapter. I'm not experienced at playing games from different regions, so any help is appreciated.

Thread title:

Lately I've decided to get more involved in the speedrunning community (probably by running DK64 and Banjo-Kazooie), but my problem right now is that my PAL N64 games run much slower than NTSC. That means I'll have to buy some American cartridges and possibly a TV that supports NTSC. I recently got an American N64 with a power supply from ebay and I have this transformer to run it in Europe:
[spoiler]
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8jkdw3i7ok79d7d/IMG038-.jpg[/img]
[/spoiler]
So here's my problem: Converting from 230V to 120V works fine with this equipment. But the output frequency is 50Hz while the American power supply seems to require 60Hz, so I'm not sure if games can run properly with it. I haven't gotten any games for that console yet, but I ordered DK64 and I'm waiting for it to arrive. So in the meantime I'd like to know if the N64 could run properly without getting damaged by the transformer or if I should get some power adapter. I'm not experienced at playing games from different regions, so any help is appreciated.

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2012-10-14 07:51:16 am

2012-10-14 07:50:49 am

torch slug since 2006

i use my swedish n64 power supply for my american n64.

bangerra

2012-10-14 08:06:25 am

Quote from DJS:

i use my swedish n64 power supply for my american n64.

Without a step down converter?!

DJS

2012-10-14 08:09:34 am

torch slug since 2006

Quote from bangerra:

Quote from DJS:

i use my swedish n64 power supply for my american n64.

Without a step down converter?!

yep. i know 2 other guys that do the same, works for them too. its weird i know.

bangerra

Edit history:

bangerra: 2012-10-14 08:16:00 am

2012-10-14 08:11:03 am

Well actually now I think of it. The N64 power adapter is external and probably outputs the same voltage to the actual console.
However that still leaves you with a 50hz power supply for a 60hz system..

Edit: Though the power supply might output DC, which isn't subjected to frequency! This leaves the console to decide what frequency to output to the TV I guess..
(I am also talking about stuff I have barely any knowledge over)

HiipFire

2012-10-14 08:15:11 am

Quote from bangerra:

Well actually now I think of it. The N64 power adapter is external and probably outputs the same voltage to the actual console.
However that still leaves you with a 50hz power supply for a 60hz system..

Works for me on my Super Famicom.

nate

2012-10-14 09:57:04 am

well if the consoles are the same electrically then the power supply doesn't matter, it just has to match what you get from the wall. i didn't know the old consoles were like that until i read this thread though. i guess it was because of the tv vertical refresh rate and not the power supply frequency that they had to mutilate ntsc games for pal.

TheThrillness

2012-10-14 11:05:59 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

This is cool news for me. I was thinking of buying an NTSC SNES and N64.

Is this the same for other consoles such as a PS1 or PS2? Makes wiring these things much easier. I also heard that the power grid is more efficient in the UK (primarily because we have more voltage) so I wonder if this would affect anything with the frame rates of older consoles which don't follow spec.

Exchord92

Edit history:

Exchord92: 2012-10-14 11:10:22 am

2012-10-14 11:09:53 am

You're all right, the power supply's output is the same in America and Europe. Since it's DC, it doesn't matter if the input has 50 or 60Hz. Guess I just didn't notice Smiley

Quote from nate:

i didn't know the old consoles were like that until i read this thread though. i guess it was because of the tv vertical refresh rate and not the power supply frequency that they had to mutilate ntsc games for pal.

Well, actually the frame rate has nothing to do with the power supply frequency. It's just because the TVs in Europe had different standards. As for PAL60, it probably hadn't been developed yet or wasn't supported when the N64 was released.

Thank you all. I have just one more question: Is the Expansion Pak region free? I'm almost sure it is though...

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2012-10-14 11:18:49 am

2012-10-14 11:15:30 am

torch slug since 2006

yep, it is. all my pal accessories have worked on my ntsc n64. pal games does not work ofcourse.

TheThrillness: i dont think it will work the same way, since the ps1/ps2 has their power supply "built-in", so giving 220V or whatever to a 110V power supply probably wont work well.
edit: this might be different for the ps2 slim, as its power supply is external.

TheThrillness

2012-10-14 11:23:28 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I was just about to post about the PS2 slim being different.

The original PS1 might not work but the PSOne might: http://savegame.cba.pl/psx/psx_images/wersje/psone_back.jpg

Slim PS2 back: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Playstation2_slim_back.jpg

blizzz

Edit history:

blizzz: 2012-10-14 12:33:06 pm

2012-10-14 12:31:51 pm

Quote from TheThrillness:

This is cool news for me. I was thinking of buying an NTSC SNES and N64.

Keep in mind that the PAL NES / SNES PSU outputs AC, not DC. It seems like the NTSC consoles will survive AC input (for a short time?), but I would strongly advise against it. N64, Gamecube and Wii are fine as the console's power input is the same in all regions, just the external transformator is different.

Edit: Also, the PAL NES / SNES PSU won't physically fit US NTSC consoles as far as I know.

HiipFire

2012-10-14 02:07:01 pm

My PAL SNES power cable outputs DC and fits into my SFC.

blizzz

Edit history:

blizzz: 2012-10-14 03:33:14 pm

2012-10-14 03:26:51 pm

Quote from HiipFire:

My PAL SNES power cable outputs DC and fits into my SFC.

PAL SNES and the Super Famicom have the same physical adapter, so that's not surprising that it physically fits. But while it says "DC in" on the back of my Super Famicom, my PAL SNES is labeled "AC". Could you check the back of your console if it says DC for PAL too? Maybe they changed it in one of the later hardware revisions. Or it's just mislabeled in the EU. I've never actually measured the output of the PSU.

Edit: Searched a bit in a German forum. The original German SNES PSU converts 220V AC to 9V AC. In the (German) console itself is a rectifier which converts the 9V AC to 9V DC and a step down converter which converts the 9V DC to 5V DC. Maybe the NTSC consoles also have the rectifier in it as a security measure against wrongs PSUs?

bangerra

2012-10-14 03:52:05 pm

I've read somewhere that the NES and SNES don't really care about AC or DC, even the polarisation of DC didn't matter iirc. I don't have a source though.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2012-10-14 09:03:54 pm

Tranquilite: 2012-10-14 09:00:50 pm

2012-10-14 08:55:32 pm

My Super Famicom will not work without a correct polarity 9V DC input (center pin negative), but my NES will take any variety of 9V input (AC, DC, whateva). I suspect that Nintendo initially just used 9V AC PSUs and internally rectified to 9V DC in order to be compatible with any 9V PSU, but changed their design sometime later to cut down on cost.

Alko

2012-10-15 10:04:24 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

And the (in this case: British) SNES PSU actually says 9V ~ output. Funnily enough it did work with Edenal's SFC. Count me confused.
On another note, half of Japan has 50 Hz power, the other half 60 Hz. But consoles are probably sold in the whole country. Either ten Hertz difference don't matter, or they accounted for it internally.

Arctic_Eagle

Edit history:

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-10-22 09:30:24 am

2012-10-22 09:29:15 am

My experience on the topic: I use a PAL N64 power supply for my N64 NTSC console. But for my NTSC SNES I bought this 240v to 110v 200 watt step down transformer converter adapter and use it with the NTSC SNES power supply, and it works: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONVERTER-TRANSFORMER-240-TO-110-200W-STEP-DOWN-ADAPTER-/130479667125?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

enjaypee

2013-04-22 04:57:53 am

Hi all, I dunno if I'm in the right place but I need some help. I dug out my old Super Famicom today and am having trouble getting it to work on my LCD tv. I read somewhere that a gamecube AV cable would work, and while I do get a picture, it comes out as black and white or it strobes. If I flick the ch1/2 switch back and forth eventually I get a "playable picture but still with no colour. The image is clearer running at 60hz than 50hz. In fact at 50hz the whole screen wobbles. I live in the UK, the cable is from a UK gamecube and the Super Famicom is definitely PAL and is NOT the UK snes.

The confusing aspect of this is that everywhere I read about the console, the Super Famicom is said to be NTSC however my SF is PAL with a sticker on the bottom to confirm this which reads "PAL I - dec91". I distinctly remember requesting a PAL version of the console back in 91 when I bought it. I don't know if the console was modded by the shop that sold it to me or whether there are legit PAL versions of the console but all I can say is it works fine on CRT tvs running thru RF. I don't have a CRT TV to try the scart lead on so have no idea if it would work on there and I can't get my RF cable connection to bring up any picture or sound on my LCD.

Anyway if anyone else from the UK has a PAL SF and runs it on their flatscreen if they could let me know how to get mine up and running I'd appreciate it. Cheers

Hi all, I dunno if I'm in the right place but I need some help. I dug out my old Super Famicom today and am having trouble getting it to work on my LCD tv. I read somewhere that a gamecube AV cable would work, and while I do get a picture, it comes out as black and white or it strobes. If I flick the ch1/2 switch back and forth eventually I get a "playable picture but still with no colour. The image is clearer running at 60hz than 50hz. In fact at 50hz the whole screen wobbles. I live in the UK, the cable is from a UK gamecube and the Super Famicom is definitely PAL and is NOT the UK snes.

The confusing aspect of this is that everywhere I read about the console, the Super Famicom is said to be NTSC however my SF is PAL with a sticker on the bottom to confirm this which reads "PAL I - dec91". I distinctly remember requesting a PAL version of the console back in 91 when I bought it. I don't know if the console was modded by the shop that sold it to me or whether there are legit PAL versions of the console but all I can say is it works fine on CRT tvs running thru RF. I don't have a CRT TV to try the scart lead on so have no idea if it would work on there and I can't get my RF cable connection to bring up any picture or sound on my LCD.

Anyway if anyone else from the UK has a PAL SF and runs it on their flatscreen if they could let me know how to get mine up and running I'd appreciate it. Cheers

Edenal

2013-04-22 06:10:23 am

Hockey enthusiast

It sounds like you are mixing up alot of stuff.

Super Famicom - Japanese
Super Nintendo Entertainment System - European / American

The American / Japanese consoles share the same internal circuits.
The Japanese / European consoles share body design.

Late NES - SNES - N64 - GameCube share the same AV-port and cable. RGB cables are however different.

Buttom line, there are no PAL Super Famicoms. If you have a 50/60 Hz switch. It's likely a modded PAL console. Applying a 60Hz mod to a PAL console does not give you the same framerate as an original NTSC console. Pictures would be nice to help you solve your problem.

enjaypee

2013-04-22 06:49:35 am

Hi. Well I definitely don't have a modded PAL console. This console was a late christmas present from 1991. In the U.K. several stores were importing SF's when it was released and they were all advertised as "PAL I" versions. The store was called grey imports. I'd be willing to bet that other U.K. owners who bought theirs around the same time will either remember this or have magazines from that time with the ads in them. They were one of the only stores in the U.K. bringing SF's in for xmas 91. I finally got mine, after a bit of a delay in Jan 92.

This was a good 10 months before the european SNES was released. I've never had an av cable for it, only the RF cable that came with it. I've never had any issues running it straight off an old CRT TV. The AV cable is from a U.K. GC. Whether the store my parents bought it from were modding SF's as they came into the U.K. - I have no idea. Like I said though, never had any probs playing it off any old style U.K. CRT tv.

Here's what i get using the GC av cable with the channel switch on 60hz

And here's my machine front, back and also the underneath showing the sticker which reads "PAL I" and i'm guessing the year it was "modded"(?).

Hi. Well I definitely don't have a modded PAL console. This console was a late christmas present from 1991. In the U.K. several stores were importing SF's when it was released and they were all advertised as "PAL I" versions. The store was called grey imports. I'd be willing to bet that other U.K. owners who bought theirs around the same time will either remember this or have magazines from that time with the ads in them. They were one of the only stores in the U.K. bringing SF's in for xmas 91. I finally got mine, after a bit of a delay in Jan 92.

This was a good 10 months before the european SNES was released. I've never had an av cable for it, only the RF cable that came with it. I've never had any issues running it straight off an old CRT TV. The AV cable is from a U.K. GC. Whether the store my parents bought it from were modding SF's as they came into the U.K. - I have no idea. Like I said though, never had any probs playing it off any old style U.K. CRT tv.

Here's what i get using the GC av cable with the channel switch on 60hz

[URL=http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/TerraRISE/media/IMG_1432_zps700b6c8c.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p567/TerraRISE/IMG_1432_zps700b6c8c.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

And here's my machine front, back and also the underneath showing the sticker which reads "PAL I" and i'm guessing the year it was "modded"(?).

[URL=http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/TerraRISE/media/IMG_1433_zps2938b0c1.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p567/TerraRISE/IMG_1433_zps2938b0c1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/TerraRISE/media/IMG_1434_zps985c0485.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p567/TerraRISE/IMG_1434_zps985c0485.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/TerraRISE/media/IMG_1435_zps295ea32c.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p567/TerraRISE/IMG_1435_zps295ea32c.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Edenal

2013-04-22 07:28:35 am

Hockey enthusiast

Quick guess is that your television is not compatible with NTSC signals. Hence the black/white picture. (50 Hz should give you color right?)

Easy work-around is to get and RGB cable. GameCube RBG cables are wired in the same way as NTSC SNES/SFC's.

enjaypee

2013-04-22 07:45:56 am

50hz brings up the borders (top and bottom) and it stays black and white. It's an RGB GC cable. I'm not clued up on technicalities but it came with the GC and has a dettachable scart adaptor with RGB plugs.

Edenal

2013-04-22 08:20:53 am

Hockey enthusiast

If the cable came with the GC it's not an RGB. Sound like you are describing a composite cable with red/white/yellow plugs?

I might be totally wrong here, but since it's a NTSC-system. Even though you change the output frequenzy to ~50Hz, it's still going to be NTSC signals.
If you check the Mario pictures here ( http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/snes-5060hz-switch-with-lockout-switch/ ) It looks like what you are describing with the boarders.

What you can do, try a different television. Try a RGB-cable.

Enjaypee

2013-04-22 08:48:38 am

Ok thanks will give it a go. Are RGB cables compatible with the SF much the same?