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Jack of all Trades
I think many people are familiar with the Grand List of Console RPG cliches. It's an oldie but a goodie, and since I just finished my Chrono Trigger speedrun I thought it would be amusing to see how many of these apply.

Quote:
Sleepyhead Rule
The teenaged male lead will begin the first day of the game by oversleeping, being woken up by his mother, and being reminded that he's slept in so late he missed meeting his girlfriend.


Quote:
"No! My beloved peasant village!"
The hero's home town, city, slum, or planet will usually be annihilated in a spectacular fashion before the end of the game, and often before the end of the opening scene.


Quote:
Thinking With The Wrong Head (Hiro Rule)
No matter what she's accused of doing or how mysterious her origins are, the hero will always be ready to fight to the death for any girl he met three seconds ago.


Quote:
Cubic Zirconium Corollary
The aforementioned mysterious girl will be wearing a pendant that will ultimately prove to be the key to either saving the world or destroying it.


Quote:
Single Parent Rule
RPG characters with two living parents are almost unheard of. As a general rule, male characters will only have a mother, and female characters will only have a father. The missing parent either vanished mysteriously and traumatically several years ago or is never referred to at all.


Quote:
Nominal Rule
Any character who actually has a name is important in some way and must be sought out. However, if you are referred to as a part of a posessive noun ("Crono's Mom") then you are superfluous.


Quote:
The Compulsories
There's always a fire dungeon, an ice dungeon, a sewer maze, a misty forest, a derelict ghost ship, a mine, a glowing crystal maze, an ancient temple full of traps, a magic floating castle, and a technological dungeon.


This only half applies. You could argue Mt. Death/Sun Temple are fire and ice but not really a full fledged dungeon, per se. There's no ghost ship or mines (just caves). No crystal maze. The last three do apply, though...and the forest and the sewer.

Quote:
The Higher The Hair, The Closer To God (Cloud Rule)
The more outrageous his hairstyle, the more important a male character is to the story.


The fun thing is that many people in the gameworld talk about Crono's "rocker hair."

Quote:
Garrett's Principle
Let's not mince words: you're a thief. You can walk into just about anybody's house like the door wasn't even locked. You just barge right in and start looking for stuff. Anything you can find that's not nailed down is yours to keep. You will often walk into perfect strangers' houses, lift their precious artifacts, and then chat with them like you were old neighbors as you head back out with their family heirlooms under your arm. Unfortunately, this never works in stores.


This applies to every RPG I can think of.

Quote:
Crono's Complaint
The less the main character talks, the more words are put into his mouth, and therefore the more trouble he gets into through no fault of his own.


Quote:
Capitalism Is A Harsh Mistress
Once you sell something to a shopkeeper, he instantly sells it to somebody else and you will never see the item again no matter what.


Quote:
Selective Paralysis
Your characters must always keep both feet on the ground and will be unable to climb over low rock ledges, railings, chairs, cats, slightly differently-colored ground, or any other trivial objects which may happen to be in their way. Note that this condition will not prevent your characters from jumping from railroad car to railroad car later in the game.


Quote:
Bed Bed Bed
A good night's sleep will cure all wounds, diseases, and disabilities, up to and including death in battle.


Quote:
And Now You Die, Mr. Bond! (Beatrix Rule)
Fortunately for you, the previous rule also applies in reverse. Rather than kill you when they have you at their mercy, the villains will settle for merely blasting you down to 1 hit point and leaving you in a crumpled heap while they stroll off, laughing.


Quote:
Most villains in RPGs possess some form of teleportation. They generally use it to materialize in front of the adventurers when they reach the Obligatory Legendary Relic Room and seize the goodies just before you can. The question "if the bad guy can teleport anywhere at any time, then why doesn't (s)he just zip in, grab the artifact, and leave before the adventurers have even finished the nerve-wracking puzzle on the third floor?" is never answered.


Although the last bit doesn't apply, Magus and Queen Zeal + her flunkies can all teleport.

Quote:
Fake Ending
There will be a sequence which pretends to be the end of the game but obviously isn't -- if for no other reason than because you're still on Disk 1 of 4.


The arc of going after Magus may apply here.

Quote:
I Don't Like Gears Or Fighting
There are always giant robots. Always.


Dragon Tank and the Guardian. NOOO!

Quote:
Houdini's Postulate
Anyone, whether they are in the player's party or not, who is placed in any kind of prison, fortress, cell, or detention block will escape immediately. Party members will be freed either by a small child they just happened to befriend earlier in the day or by an unexpected disaster that overcomes the enemy base, NPCs will be freed by the released party members, and villains will break out all by themselves because they're such badasses. Once a person has escaped from jail, no attempt will be made by the police to recapture them in the future.


Trigger does this twice! Sheesh!

Quote:
But They Don't Take American Express
Every merchant in the world -- even those living in far-off villages or hidden floating cities cut off from the outside world for centuries, even those who speak different languages or are of an entirely different species -- accepts the same currency.


This is even worse due to the fact that we time travel -- although, the shopkeepers do comment on this many times ("This is money? Whatever...!")

Quote:
The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly Rule
a. Any male character who is ugly, malformed, or misshapen is either evil or so moral, spiritual, and/or wise that it's a wonder no one's proposed him for sainthood yet.
b. Any male character who has a physical disfiguration that doesn't seem to impede him (i.e. a prominent scar across the face or a bad eye) is evil, unless he is the male lead, since scars are cool and no other good guy can be as cool as the hero. An exception is made for characters who are clearly ancient, and therefore automatically not as cool as the young hero.


Frog is the most honorable character in the game...and Dalton has an eye patch.

Quote:
Henchman Quota (Nana, Saki, and Mio Rule)
One of your antagonists will have three lovably incompetent stooges whom you fight over and over again. Although they're trusted with their boss's most important plans and equipment, they will screw up repeatedly, argue incessantly among themselves, blab secret information, and generally only come out victorious when their job was to be a diversion or a delaying tactic. A high point of the game will come when the True Villain reveals himself and you're able to convince the stooges you're all on the same side. They won't help you out any more successfully than they helped the antagonist, but at least you won't have to fight them any more.


Magus has Flea, Slash, and Ozzie. If you do all the sidequests you fight them three times! Sheesh.

Quote:
Fifth Law of Travel
All vehicles can be driven or piloted by anyone. The main character just needs to find out where the bridge or steering wheel is, as he already knows all of the controls.


A cave woman can easily pilot a jet/time machine.

Quote:
Sixth Law of Travel
Nobody gets to own a cooler ride than you. If you ever do see a cooler vehicle than the one you've got now, at some point before the end of the game you will either take over this vehicle, get something even bigger and better, or else see it destroyed in a glorious blaze.


R.I.P. Blackbird.
Thread title:  
Edit history:
marshmallow: 2005-10-12 07:41:32 pm
Jack of all Trades
Quote:
Wait! That Was A Load-Bearing Boss!
Defeating a dungeon's boss creature will frequently cause the dungeon to collapse, which is nonsensical but does make for thrilling escape scenes.


R.I.P. Mt. Woe.

Quote:
Figurehead Rule
Whenever someone asks you a question to decide what to do, it's just to be polite. He or she will ask the question again and again until you answer "correctly."


Quote:
Three Females Rule
There will always be either one or three female characters in the hero's party, no matter how many male characters there are.


I have to admit, I didn't think this applied to most RPG's...then again, I don't play that many. I thought Chrono Trigger was drowning in estrogen when you're almost done with the game and you have one guy, a robot, and three babes.

Quote:
Law of Reverse Evolution (Zeboim Principle)
Any ancient civilizations are inexplicably much more advanced than the current one.


Not really inexplicable.

Quote:
Law of Scientific Gratification
If the hero needs a new invention to progress, he will find out that somewhere in the world someone has spent his or her entire life perfecting this invention, and usually just needs one more key item located in a monster-infested dungeon before it is completed.


Definitely the Epoch, although you just need the powered up pendant to access it.

Quote:
# First Rule of Politics (Chancellor's Axiom)
Any advisor of a major ruler has been scheming after his throne for quite a while. Thanks to the miracle of timing, you will arrive at the king's inner sanctum just in time for the coup.


This happens twice! Although you somewhat caused the second because of the rainbow shell...but in both instances the chancellor is really an evil monster.

Quote:
Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics (Ramus Rule)
Twenty-three generations may pass, but any person's direct descendant will still look and act just like him.


Quote:
Dealing With Beautiful Women, Part 2 (Rouge Rule)
All good-looking middle-aged females are out to kill you. This rule holds even when the woman in question has attained your unwavering trust and respect.


Queen Zeal is rather insane.

Quote:
Well, So Much For That
After you have completed your mighty quest to find the object that will save the known universe, it will either a) get lost, b) get stolen, or c) not work.


Dalton takes the Epoch.

Quote:
Law of NPC Relativity (Magus Rule)
Characters can accomplish superhuman physical feats, defeat enemies with one hand tied behind their back and use incredible abilities -- until they join your party and you can control them. Then these wonderful powers all vanish, along with most of their hit points.


I want to turn monsters into frogs.

Quote:
Materials Science 101
Gold, silver, and other precious metals make excellent weapons and armor even though in the real world they are too soft and heavy to use for that purpose. In fact, they work so well that nobody ever melts their solid gold suit of armor down into bullion, sells it, and retires to a tropical isle on the proceeds.


Quote:
Doomed Utopia Theorem (Law of Zeal)
All seemingly ideal, utopian societies are powered by some dark force and are therefore doomed to swift, flashy destruction.


Quote:
The Law of Inverse Practicality (Key Item Corollary)
Any item that you can acquire will have some sort of purpose. Those that seem to be useless and have no practical value at all, always tend to have great power later on. The earlier you get the item, the later in the game it will be used. The longer the span of time between acquisition and use, the more powerful the item is.


Crono doll.

Quote:
Master Key Rule
Any and all locked doors that the characters encounter will be unlocked by the end of the game.


Quote:
It's Not My Department, Says Wernher Von Braun
All space stations, flying cities, floating continents and so forth will without exception either be blown up or crash violently to earth before the end of the game.


Lavos SMASH.

Quote:
The Long Arm of the Plot
Any bad guys, no matter how far they run, will always end up in one of two ways by the end of the game: obviously dead, or on your side. There is no in-between.


Edit history:
marshmallow: 2005-10-12 07:42:00 pm
Jack of all Trades
OK, maybe that was a little excessive. But there are almost 200!
welcome to the machine
This is a squaresoft rpg.  Half of the cliches in there apply to it by default.
PwNzRd!
Longest post ever. <- Shortest post ever.
Sleeping Terror
Bah, that list is missing my favorite rule.

Quote:
Earthbound Rule
All final bosses have some special super duper dimension background that you fight in, frequently out in space. So named because Earthbound has these in every battle.
Jack of all Trades
Heh, that would apply to the final battle in Trigger too.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
It was a cliched game, but a very good one.
Jack of all Trades
I thought most people view Trigger as rather original.
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
Quote:
(about Houdini's Postulate)
Trigger does this twice! Sheesh!

http://pixelcomic.net/184.shtml

My favorite of those is the one about how there are no shortcuts; anything called a shortcut is much longer and much more dangerous than the real path.  And this one:
Quote:
Weapon Rule
There's always a hidden creature who is much harder to defeat than even the ultimate bad guy's final, world-annihilating form. It's lucky for all concerned that this hidden creature prefers to stay hidden rather than trying to take over the world himself, because he'd probably win. As a corollary, whatever reward you get for killing the hidden creature is basically worthless because by the time you're powerful enough to defeat him, you don't need it any more.
trust the fungus
that list is a ripoff from the old GIA list, found here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010605132610/www.thegia.com/features/f990118.html

it looks like it was updated to account for modern cliches, though.
My favorite (I dunno if it's on there) is how you can never say no to rescuing the princess, saving the world, whatever. If you pick no, then they always say "oh, but you must!" and you're stuck forever unless you pick yes.
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
Despite that, the only characters I've told "no" to in Zelda are the Monkey at the Deku Palace and Kaepora Gaebora (as if that's some sort of suprise).  I've just never bothered to check out "no" as it's usually the same thing again.

I like how you can tell the safe-robbing girl in TWW that her story of poverty after the pirates rescued her is "kinda funny."
SEGA Junkie
This is my favourite:

Quote:
Perversity Principle
If you're unsure about what to do next, ask all the townspeople nearby. They will either all strongly urge you to do something, in which case you must immediately go out and do that thing, or else they will all strongly warn you against doing something, in which case you must immediately go out and do that thing.


Of course, the whole list is just awesome. But this one stood out for mine (along with the Weapon rule, but that had already been mentioned).
Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!
Quote:
My favorite (I dunno if it's on there) is how you can never say no to rescuing the princess, saving the world, whatever. If you pick no, then they always say "oh, but you must!" and you're stuck forever unless you pick yes.

How true that is! I remember just obtaining Winged Dragon of Ra in "Yugioh:[crappy generic game title #16]," before being able to battle anyone using it, immediately after the cutscene I'm asked to give it back to that whore to keep peace, I select no; she keeps repeating until I say yes. :(!!!!
Edit history:
alexpenev: 2005-10-13 11:04:00 am
> that list is a ripoff from the old GIA list, found here:

I've seen this list years ago, so I don't know which came first. The archive.org link has GIA archived in 2001, and I think I've seen this list at around that time anyway: it was quite long even then (so not much has been added since).

Also.. a lot of the cliches originated with CT anyway, and some games copy CT, so they become cliche Smiley I can't comment on how original it is or isn't since I hadn't played any RPGs before it at that time, but CT was made by a group of guys who were uber in the RPG world in their own right, so they put in ideas from their already-existing games. I think CT is often billed as the game that started the silent-protagonist thing (where the never talks), but I reckon Link would have done that much sooner.
trust the fungus
the GIA list was quite old, from maybe 1999; I know there's nothing newer than Xenogears on the list, at least. it's fully possible that they both originate from the same place, but when I saw the topic title I said to myself "hey, the good old GIA list!"

CT didn't do anything especially new besides time travel and on-screen enemies.. especially not storywise. I always laugh at people who like Crono and dislike Link or vice versa, because they're the same exact dude: silent protagonist with a sword. that doesn't make it bad, though.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Quote:
All The Time In The World (Rinoa Rule)
Unless there's a running countdown clock right there on the screen, you have as long as you want to complete any task -- such as, say, rescuing a friend who's hanging by one hand from a slippery cliff edge thousands of feet in the air -- no matter how incredibly urgent it is. Dawdle or hurry as you will, you'll always make it just in the nick of time.


There are, of course, exceptions to this, but it's still an accurate cliche.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
...Or, for final fantasy enthusiasts everywhere:

Quote:
Way To Go, Serge
It will eventually turn out that, for a minimum of the first sixty percent of the game, you were actually being manipulated by the forces of evil into doing their sinister bidding for them. In extreme cases this may go as high as 90%. The clear implication is that it would have been better to not get involved in the first place.
Maybe if I played RPGs I would get these.... but sadly, no.
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
I actually saw this list before I played any RPG's (except Zelda, which I wouldn't count but obviously makes it into several entries) and I still thought that most of them were really funny.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Since marsh created this topic after completing CT, I figured completing FF2 would mark a fine time to revive this. It does seem like a cliches list would make good required reading for RPG developers.

This list is indeed one of the many ripoffs of the GIA list by Fritz Fraundorf. PLEASE, accept no substitutes. Fritz is one of my favorite RPG writers from back in the day (along with Jeremy Parish, Thor, and RPG Critic... google them up). Not only is his writing better and his examples better, his taste is also much better. Other lists simply replaced the games they hadn't played like Lufia and Shining Force with FF games and bad examples. And yes, that list in the first post did rip off GIA. You can see the GIA watermark logo in the corner of the title picture.

With that taken care of, without going through all of the cliches in detail, FF2 does suffer from much cliched writing. I can't think of a plot with more deus ex machina's either. As you're playing, think about how much doesn't make sense, like Rydia getting into the locked throne room, Cid warping the airship out by "remote control", not casting Exit earlier actually, and so on. Maybe I'll make note of some of these while writing up my comments.

About some of the CT comments: alexpenev, CT is definitely NOT the game that started the silent protagonist thing. In fact, just about every game used to do this (the main character supposed to represent the player), and it was noteworthy whenever a game did NOT do this.

transience, about CT doing nothing new except time travel and on-screen enemies: Time travel is not exactly a new concept in fantasy. I actually liked the way time travel was used more in Tales of Phantasia, which came out more or less simultaneously. On-screen enemies was unique IIRC, but taking out random encounters (which is admittedly what I appreciated more) is definitely not. Lufia 2 came out a bit earlier, for example, and had avoidable enemies.
新世紀進歩的羽扇子 音楽
"Grandmother of All Cliches, the. In absolutely every single RPG (except BOF3), you are trying to defeat a bad guy."
Uhh...what?  Huh?

The "a full night's sleep lasts three seconds" is a total no duh...except in Rudra no Hihou...where you can't just sleep your way through all 15 days.
Edit history:
Gorash: 2005-12-22 06:39:04 am
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Quote:
With that taken care of, without going through all of the cliches in detail, FF2 does suffer from much cliched writing. I can't think of a plot with more deus ex machina's either.


Not exactly deus ex machina, but the original BoF left me speechless. You go into a city, you go into the palace, slaughter everything in your way, then you meet a ruling entity of some kind, which you butcher too, then you blow up the whole place...
And then the people of the city will explain to you why what you just did was heroic and good for the city (including! blowing up the palace).

I don't know if the GIA list contains a rule for that already (too lazy to check), otherwise I'd call it the "hero curse". Whatever you do, it will turn out to be heroic. Smiley
give me your eyes!!!
Quote: 'Blues Brothers Rule. The heroes are always right, no matter what they do. Whatever side the heroes are on is the good side.'

I guess that's close enough. But what about all the times you end up doing something that ultimately aids the enemy?