Rogue Legacy

2013-06-29 03:43:35 pm

Truljin @ Twitch

If you've never heard of this it was recently released for PC and is a rogue-like 2d platform action game with random elements.
http://www.roguelegacy.com/

I've been really enjoying it so far, maxing everything out, but i am a bit confuzzled on how to run this game proper.

Basically, in the game you start with one character, whenever it dies you can pick a successor to it and they always have random names, abilities and whatnot.
Then you have the Castle itself where the whole game takes place, this is always randomly generated UNLESS you lock it with the proper NPC, this has to be done every time you die with a character.
The only thing not random that would be important in a run is your Manor, this is where you upgrade things like health, damage done and unlock NPCs.

I am currently looking for opinions on how to properly do a speedrun of this game with so many random elements, would one just go for a maxed out NG+ style and quickly kill all bosses with unlimited amounts of characters at your disposal.

There are a total of 6 bosses:
Khidr - Castle
Ponce de Leon - Tower
Alexander - Forest
Herodotus - Dungeon
Johannes - Start, unlocked when all 4 previous bosses have been killed
The Fountain - Johannes in his last form, after this the game is over

Thread title:

If you've never heard of this it was recently released for PC and is a rogue-like 2d platform action game with random elements.
http://www.roguelegacy.com/

I've been really enjoying it so far, maxing everything out, but i am a bit confuzzled on how to run this game proper.

Basically, in the game you start with one character, whenever it dies you can pick a successor to it and they always have random names, abilities and whatnot.
Then you have the Castle itself where the whole game takes place, this is always randomly generated UNLESS you lock it with the proper NPC, this has to be done every time you die with a character.
The only thing not random that would be important in a run is your Manor, this is where you upgrade things like health, damage done and unlock NPCs.

I am currently looking for opinions on how to properly do a speedrun of this game with so many random elements, would one just go for a maxed out NG+ style and quickly kill all bosses with unlimited amounts of characters at your disposal.

There are a total of 6 bosses:
Khidr - Castle
Ponce de Leon - Tower
Alexander - Forest
Herodotus - Dungeon
Johannes - Start, unlocked when all 4 previous bosses have been killed
The Fountain - Johannes in his last form, after this the game is over

Onin

2013-06-29 03:56:05 pm

Since dying is an active game mechanic, I don't think you can call it NG+ (unless the game actually has an NG+. I don't own it, so I wouldn't know.) A proper NG run would have to be from very first character up to the final boss.

lillbrorsan

2013-06-29 04:13:15 pm

Truljin @ Twitch

Basically, if i start the game up now it will show a + since I've killed all the bosses at least once and have all the upgrades in my Manor, though i don't have all the gear or runes so i guess a proper new run by deleting ones save would make more sense. Having only one character from a new save to kill all the bosses will be an amazing feat.

ProfessorBroman

Edit history:

ProfessorBroman: 2013-06-30 09:04:36 am

ProfessorBroman: 2013-06-30 09:01:24 am

ProfessorBroman: 2013-06-30 09:00:56 am

2013-06-30 08:56:29 am

Not looking into running this one myself but I'd be open to help plan and verify! Also I wouldn't worry too much about the randomness of the manor as an issue for speedrunning the game, once you feel ready to take on all (or some) of the bosses locking the castle for that moment would make sense. Even thought the map is randomly generated unless locked, there are definitely rooms that repeat inside the generation. I know its a bit of a long shot but looking into how the manor is generated each time could yield some beneficial results, especially if it can be manipulated in any meaningful way.

EDIT: Sorry keep getting ideas. Has anyone discovered what feels like the "quickest" powerful class to unlock and finish the game? Figuring out how much gold is needed to get there would also help planing and routing each successor, at least by letting you know what to look for when you have X amount of gold.

lillbrorsan

Edit history:

lillbrorsan: 2013-06-30 09:10:05 am

2013-06-30 09:07:25 am

Truljin @ Twitch

Hey Broman!
I think locking the castle down is the right way to go, the problem with this is that you will need gold to unlock that particular NPC, not sure how much you will need in total for a complete run but the more the merrier.

As for the randomly generated rooms, i have noticed a tendency of repeating rooms since i did play through the whole game, mapping them out might give one a complete view, either if the rooms are generated individually or if they are part of "sets" that are added to form the castle.

I've been looking at the different successors and which setup would be optimal, from what I've found is that i prefer one that is smaller, quick and has a really good secondary weapon like crows, spiky things or the time stopper.
It is possible that for a speedrun, a successor with the time stopper would be the best way to go.

ProfessorBroman

2013-06-30 09:16:02 am

Alright I'm firing up a new game and I'm going to attempt to work on some kind of gold chart for the Manor, perhaps even turn it into some kinda of usable total gold needed info-graphic.

lillbrorsan

2013-06-30 09:27:54 am

Truljin @ Twitch

Am currently streaming while trying to plan the game, there is one more spell that can really help but have to try it a bit more, Flame Barrier.

Setz

2013-06-30 10:21:09 am

The best class in my mind is easily the Spellthief/Spellsword, since you can really quickly recover MP from simply attacking enemies while simultaneously dealing magic damage. Combine that with Flame Barrier and the boss fights are a cakewalk. I've taken down Herodotus almost without damage and most bosses only last around ten seconds even without mana power upgrades.

Since Flame Barrier lets you stand away from enemies, it's good for minimizing the damage you take, too.

Unfortunately that class would require a fair bit of gold to reach, and getting one with Flame Barrier is pretty unlikely.

lillbrorsan

Edit history:

lillbrorsan: 2013-06-30 10:26:20 am

2013-06-30 10:25:59 am

Truljin @ Twitch

Did some testing and i really do like the recovering of MP, when it comes to spell i would either use Flame Barrier or Time Stopper as they are both really effective together with a tanky character.
The main problem is how to dish out a good amount of damage.
I also found out that you obviously want both the dash and double-jump, i noticed that whenever you dash next to the Architect and speak to him at the same time, he will lock the castle down while you can still move/dash towards the entrance and save a couple of seconds.

ProfessorBroman

2013-06-30 12:11:33 pm

Another build that seems quite powerful would be a Litch type with a Vampirism set of runes and equipment. Not sure if it would be less expensive than the Spellsword/Spellthief as I haven't unlocked them yet, but the first downside that comes to mind there would be the RNG dependency on getting the proper runes and weapons.

Setz

2013-06-30 12:22:24 pm

The Lich is built off of the idea that you kill a lot of enemies, though. It's best to avoid any enemies you encounter on your way to the bosses because you can only earn gold, which isn't useful if you're aiming to beat the game with that character.

It's also kind of frustrating because the Lich's HP Conversion is limited by your max level, so with only a few upgrades, you wouldn't be able to make up for the lost health over -- say -- a Barbarian.

Unfortunately, both Spellswords and Liches are so far up the skill tree that they're very hard to justify in a speedrun, especially since any new unlocked class guarantees at least two deaths.

Bevilr

2013-06-30 08:31:58 pm

I'd be very interested in seeing a run of this. I would suggest Shinobi as a great early class. With it's one hit KO of nearly all castle level enemies, you can really plow through and find the chests of the castle and forest with relative ease.

I think the mage characters would be the easiest to speed run as you can avoid getting hit more easily, but if someone was really good at the game, assassin or shinobi classes will be much faster I think. Shinobi with blood armor is a great and easy way to get pretty far into the dungeons.

Like most of your suggestions, the spelunker is probably too far into the gold line to be worth it, but their special ability to mark all the chests on you map is AMAZING. Especially with time stop, you can rack up a lot of early gold with relatively little effort/enemy killing - just run through the rooms to the chests, time stop your way to the chest and run on.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2013-06-30 11:26:05 pm

2013-06-30 11:25:02 pm

I noticed on paladin you can hold Down + Y to turn to a statue dealing damage to anything that walks and stays in your hit box. This is pretty mana consuming though unless you want to go full mana build. This is pretty good on Alexander even though he's relatively easy with any class same with Herodotus after you break him down 2-3 times. Ponce de Leon is hit or miss depending on if he wants to stay still. You can't get hurt as a statue and still able to use magic.

Bevilr

2013-07-01 12:54:09 am

Also don't know how much it's worth trying to get that "perfect" character for an early gold collecting run, but getting a mage/archmage with the HP and MP switch trait, you can get an absolute beast of a tank in terms of HP, though obviously not a super strong one. Just trying to think about the best gold collecting characters here.

FearfulFerret

2013-07-01 04:08:45 pm

As far as I can tell, the best way to speedrun is to immediately beat the first boss and get enough gold to unlock the spell thief on your first respawn, then keep the mansion locked down permanently from there on out and just beat the bosses with spell thieves. The two runes the enchantress starts with should be all you need. It's extremely difficult to beat the bosses with just a bare spell thief and basically no upgrades, but the boss fights are consistent enough that I think it's possible. I'll work on it today. Gold collecting just seems so inefficient in terms of time, though if you guys figure out any upgrades that are essential, then we can do more work on figuring out efficient gold usage.

lillbrorsan

2013-07-02 11:03:57 am

Truljin @ Twitch

Thanks for your PoVs, have to make another run of planning using this information and see how it plays out.

Bevilr

2013-07-02 07:42:20 pm

Very interesting boss strategy I just tested - time stop on a HP/MP inverted barbarian can get most bosses down quite a lot (I managed to kill one before the time stop ran out, but this was on a decently leved character), with absolutely zero damage taken.

acederp

2013-07-02 08:37:25 pm

the last boss would be so hard to do with bare miniums. The last phase is possible but the 1st phase he is so random. I think there is a way to cheese him with a knock back character. But from i can tell getting a knockback character is low chance

PonPon

2013-07-03 05:14:38 pm

I went through and did a speed run on this game. Time : 1:46:34.6

Basic strategy :
Kill first boss on first life, farm as much as you can til you die and as quick as possible.
Buy everything up to architect and enchantress, buy sword and double jump/dash. Use remaining money on damage (enough to do at least 30 damage using a Paladin; needed to 2 shot the mobs on Alex).
Get to Alex, fight alex and if you lose use architect. On win use the money for damage and mana.
Get to Ponce, fight Ponce and if you lose use architect. On win use the money for mana.

All the above can be done sub 40; although I can picture a crazy run killing Alex and Ponce on one life (did it once, got really lucky with room placement) being sub 25-30.

Get to Herodotus and use the Paladin's stone form in the left or right corner (left seems to work best) after splitting him into 4 blobs. Done well this can kill Herodotus instantly, or atleast leave only a few small ones to deal with. This takes a while.

After that is done use the money to unlock shinobi and use the money as best as you can to get as much damage as possible, and if feasable above 97 health on Shinobi (this gives you an extra hit on the second form). Use Shinobi to kill The Fountain.

Things that can speed this up :
Grace runes work on bosses, these can make it easier.
Siphon or Balance runes for mana on Herodotus
Vamp runes/blood for Alex (not required, but can make it so if the fight takes to long you can farm life back and attempt to salvage)

Run Vod (nsfw, I curse somewhat) : http://www.twitch.tv/ponponweiweiwei/c/2519191
Khidr kill attempt at 48 seconds
Alex kill attempt at 9:35
Ponce de Leon kill attempt at 35:40
Herodotus kill attempt at 59:30
The Fountain kill attempt at 1:44:00

Things that can be sped up:
I could farm rooms better, and skip many more rooms and opponents. I sometimes linger.
Ponce de Leon can be beaten pretty easily, I screwed him up a lot this attempt.
Herodotus Paladin strat can be executed better, also not screwing up after I get him to only a few left
The Fountain can be done in less attempts, I just get antsy and take hits needlessly (although that fight is 2 hits and death which can be rough)

Mainly most of the time saved just comes from better play that will cause far less boss attempts; fighting the fountain like 20 times takes a LONG time.

I went through and did a speed run on this game. Time : 1:46:34.6

Basic strategy :
Kill first boss on first life, farm as much as you can til you die and as quick as possible.
Buy everything up to architect and enchantress, buy sword and double jump/dash. Use remaining money on damage (enough to do at least 30 damage using a Paladin; needed to 2 shot the mobs on Alex).
Get to Alex, fight alex and if you lose use architect. On win use the money for damage and mana.
Get to Ponce, fight Ponce and if you lose use architect. On win use the money for mana.

All the above can be done sub 40; although I can picture a crazy run killing Alex and Ponce on one life (did it once, got really lucky with room placement) being sub 25-30.

Get to Herodotus and use the Paladin's stone form in the left or right corner (left seems to work best) after splitting him into 4 blobs. Done well this can kill Herodotus instantly, or atleast leave only a few small ones to deal with. This takes a while.

After that is done use the money to unlock shinobi and use the money as best as you can to get as much damage as possible, and if feasable above 97 health on Shinobi (this gives you an extra hit on the second form). Use Shinobi to kill The Fountain.

Things that can speed this up : 
Grace runes work on bosses, these can make it easier.
Siphon or Balance runes for mana on Herodotus
Vamp runes/blood for Alex (not required, but can make it so if the fight takes to long you can farm life back and attempt to salvage)

Run Vod (nsfw, I curse somewhat) : http://www.twitch.tv/ponponweiweiwei/c/2519191 
Khidr kill attempt at 48 seconds
Alex kill attempt at 9:35
Ponce de Leon kill attempt at 35:40
Herodotus kill attempt at 59:30
The Fountain kill attempt at 1:44:00

Things that can be sped up:
I could farm rooms better, and skip many more rooms and opponents. I sometimes linger.
Ponce de Leon can be beaten pretty easily, I screwed him up a lot this attempt.
Herodotus Paladin strat can be executed better, also not screwing up after I get him to only a few left
The Fountain can be done in less attempts, I just get antsy and take hits needlessly (although that fight is 2 hits and death which can be rough)

Mainly most of the time saved just comes from better play that will cause far less boss attempts; fighting the fountain like 20 times takes a LONG time.

FearfulFerret

2013-07-03 09:13:54 pm

I assume that we're going to be using the latest version? The release version lets you cheese out herodotus and the final boss.

Rake

2013-07-03 10:21:45 pm

Came across this http://www.twitch.tv/star__/c/2520233

Most of the strategy relies on getting Shanobi which is interesting. Might give you some inspiration it can come down a lot from that still with more planning and luck

PonPon

2013-07-04 06:51:16 am

Can that glitch for Herodotus still be done on the current version? If so that could speed up my run a lot as having to spend so much into mana to attempt to do the Paladin strat takes so much time and makes all my boss attempts slower.

And I guess it would have to be decided like FearfulFerret said, what version do you use? Seems like they are fixing bugs and even balancing (Paladin stone form got double mana cost recently).

Smite

2013-07-04 12:55:07 pm

That Herodotus glitch didn't work for me, bet it is fixed. I remember being able to jump through that platform to move but now I cannot. However, I did manage to take him down VERY EARLY anyway. You need that foot disease for him, and definitely heavy use of the Shinobi for the fastest possible time. You can unlock this dude by the 2nd child and be using one by the third, if the dice are favoring you.

My best run time is 28:27, legit run. here it is: I cleared Herodotus with a foot-diseased paladin, which makes this big problem way easier. He is a huge roadblock for me if I don't get that trait.

By the way, did anyone notice that the in-game clock is totally off? Like, my whole video isn't even as long as the game says I ran, and my clock says a full 8 minutes less, which is what I trust.

lillbrorsan

2013-07-05 09:07:11 am

Truljin @ Twitch

Did some more testing and I'm glad to see some attempts being posted here, did not think much of Shinobi but i will have a go and see how that works.
As for the in-game clock, yes it seems to be really off Tongue

Also, pretty sure we use the latest version as previously stated, you can have some fun with the one at release.

Kitin

2013-07-06 07:45:43 pm

Not in to this game at all but i just saw this posted in my subscription box: