Risk of Rain by Hopoo Games

MauvaisVitrier

Edit history:

MauvaisVitrier: 2013-11-11 10:20:57 am

MauvaisVitrier: 2013-11-11 10:20:31 am

2013-11-11 10:19:12 am

Risk of Rain is an action platformer with elements of rogue-like. It's on Steam since Novembre the 8th, 2013.

Here is the 'about' section of the official website : http://riskofraingame.com/about/

So I thought it could be interesting to run this game. It has a lot of randomized things so running it is quite difficult. If you want to know more about the game you can check out Jesse Cox's "The Greenlight" episode about RoR (on youtube)
In this game you have to beat 5 levels in order to get to the last level in which you have to defeat the final boss (that ends the run). In each level you have to find a portal to activate. When you did so, you have to survive 90 seconds (less or more if you play the easy/hard mode) beat a random boss and kill every ennemy on the map to get to the next level.

A friend and I tried a first run of the game and manage to beat it in 21:56:

We made some mistakes but it's a pretty good first run. Lots of improvements need to be made but we're quite happy. What do you think ? I think sub-20 is way doable.

But we need to discuss how to classify RoR's runs ? Single-player, 2 players co-op, online, offline, with or without some items ?

Thread title:

Risk of Rain is an action platformer with elements of rogue-like. It's on Steam since Novembre the 8th, 2013.

Here is the 'about' section of the official website : http://riskofraingame.com/about/

So I thought it could be interesting to run this game. It has a lot of randomized things so running it is quite difficult. If you want to know more about the game you can check out Jesse Cox's "The Greenlight" episode about RoR (on youtube)
In this game you have to beat 5 levels in order to get to the last level in which you have to defeat the final boss (that ends the run). In each level you have to find a portal to activate. When you did so, you have to survive 90 seconds (less or more if you play the easy/hard mode) beat a random boss and kill every ennemy on the map to get to the next level.

A friend and I tried a first run of the game and manage to beat it in 21:56:

http://youtu.be/2pDpQ0v55Bc

We made some mistakes but it's a pretty good first run. Lots of improvements need to be made but we're quite happy. What do you think ? I think sub-20 is way doable.

But we need to discuss how to classify RoR's runs ? Single-player, 2 players co-op, online, offline, with or without some items ?

Wilbo

2013-11-13 01:55:29 am

Videogames

Its a really fun game.
I started going for speedruns on it myself. Its quite tricky alone but Bandit is without a doubt the most powerful class. Especially since you can glitch the last boss like that easily.

I did a solo run here and it went really well. I am hoping to get a friend up to my level at some point and try to beat the time you guys set.

Avorpal

2013-11-13 03:46:11 am

This game is HARDCORE in solo Smiley

Well played

MauvaisVitrier

2013-11-13 04:06:33 am

Wilbo : Well played, I think you had almost a perfect set of stages :

1) Dried Lake (very good 'cause short)
2) Sky Meadow (very good too 'cause short)
3) Ancient Valley (a bit of bad luck here because this stage is huge, but you found the portal really quickly)
4) Hive Cluster (good, better than the lava stage)
5) Temple of the Elders
6) Final stage

I agree that the Bandit is one of the best characters to speedrun RoR. Especially since you can fool the final boss easily.

We discussed a bit about what objects we should choose/prefer during SR and we've noticed that the Glowing Meteorite is way overpowered and can easlily oneshot the two worms of the final boss, which is a huge time saver.
We decided not to take objects unless they are on our way, and prefered high damage items & usable objects to shorten the final boss fight.
We also decided not to take the Clock that stops time and affects the in-game timer

I think the best stages are :

1) Dried Lake
2) Sky Meadow
3) The water stage (don't remember its name)
4) Hive Cluster
5) Temple of the Elders
6) Final Stage

Except for the last two, the others are the shortests stages in the game and avoid the Cremator boss (that only spawns into lava, not close to the player, which is a real pain)

What do you think ?

Wilbo : Well played, I think you had almost a perfect set of stages :

1) Dried Lake (very good 'cause short)
2) Sky Meadow (very good too 'cause short)
3) Ancient Valley (a bit of bad luck here because this stage is huge, but you found the portal really quickly)
4) Hive Cluster (good, better than the lava stage)
5) Temple of the Elders
6) Final stage

I agree that the Bandit is one of the best characters to speedrun RoR. Especially since you can fool the final boss easily.

We discussed a bit about what objects we should choose/prefer during SR and we've noticed that the Glowing Meteorite is way overpowered and can easlily oneshot the two worms of the final boss, which is a huge time saver. 
We decided not to take objects unless they are on our way, and prefered high damage items & usable objects to shorten the final boss fight.
We also decided not to take the Clock that stops time and affects the in-game timer

I think the best stages are :

1) Dried Lake
2) Sky Meadow 
3) The water stage (don't remember its name)
4) Hive Cluster
5) Temple of the Elders
6) Final Stage

Except for the last two, the others are the shortests stages in the game and avoid the Cremator boss (that only spawns into lava, not close to the player, which is a real pain)

What do you think ?

Wilbo

2013-11-13 10:26:50 am

Videogames

I would rather take Damp Caverns over Sky Meadow to be honest. Child's are so freaking strong and golems and parents make and army of absolute horror which is an easy run killer. I lost a fair few runs to the Sky Meadow.

Magma caverns are just hellish so I would be super sad if I ever got those on a good run.
Your list is right though, ideally you get all the shortest stages and I got super lucky in the ancient valley.

MauvaisVitrier

2013-11-13 11:12:00 am

Child's and Parents are strong for sure, but those I hate most are the green whisps; there're just horribly strong.
The Damp Caverns stage is way too big. Even when I play 2 players co-op it's difficult to find the portal efficiently (and the fastest way possible). Too many platforms, corners, routes.

"Magma caverns are just hellish so I would be super sad if I ever got those on a good run."
The worst is Magma Caverns + Cremator. Just reset if you get this one Cheesy

We will try a easy mode run too, I think we can easily make pretty flawless runs

Onin

Edit history:

Onin: 2013-11-14 03:36:34 pm

2013-11-14 01:37:34 pm

Question: What difficulty are you guys running on? Is there big enough difference in difficulties to warrant different categories, or should we just agree on one difficulty?

Studio

Edit history:

Studio: 2013-11-14 05:08:05 pm

2013-11-14 05:07:54 pm

Tried Acrid on a normal difficulty, got 25:05

http://i.imgur.com/YBI3Zko.png

I lost about 2 minutes from getting the fire level, and messing up navigation (Had to do 2 extra loops to get to the teleporter, also Cremator was in a godawful spot for a melee, the bottom right pit).

And started abusing the Final Boss AI bug, but on his shadow, so I can just man up versus the boss off to the side. Might be able to avoid killing the Temple Guardians by fighting on the lowest level as well.

MauvaisVitrier

Edit history:

MauvaisVitrier: 2013-11-15 04:45:03 am

MauvaisVitrier: 2013-11-15 04:44:12 am

2013-11-15 04:43:35 am

Quote from Onin:

Question: What difficulty are you guys running on? Is there big enough difference in difficulties to warrant different categories, or should we just agree on one difficulty?

To answer your questions :
We usually run on normal mode, and we'll probably stick to it.

But we tried running on easy mode once, and noticed a few differences (we made a video of it, but it's not uploaded yet, we'll post it here once it's done). We runned it in 19:41 if I remember well (and we lost 30 seconds I think on the 5th stage because there was a ghost bug (when you have the mask that spawns a ghost each time you kill an enemy, it sometimes mess up with the message "enemies left" that tells you there are still monsters to kill whereas the arrow just points to a ghost) preventing me from teleporting to the final stage, so my friend had to come do it himself.

- The goal in each stage is to find the teleporter as fast as possible, so there's no difference between the two modes since you don't want to loose time trying to kill enemies.

- Once the teleporter is activated, there's a 90 seconds count down in both modes (against 120 sc on hard mode) so no difference.

- Now, whatever the difficulty mode you choose, your goal - when the teleporter is activated - is to prevent enemies from spawning everywhere and kill them all before the end of the 90 seconds. So if you play well, there's no enemy left on both mode. So you don't loose or gain time by playing easy or normal mode.

- However we've noticed a slight change in the final boss' HP. On normal mode : ~20 000 HP (16mn45 = in-game difficulty : hard). On easy mode : ~18 000 HP (16mn30 = in-game difficulty : hard)

Also, since you don't have as much enemies on easy mode as on normal mode, you have more chances not to die. When we run the game, we only pick boss items, or chest items during the 90 seconds countdown and never backtrack. So we get to the final boss pretty naked. If we don't have power-ups it's longer to kill the boss and it's more likely that you'll die even before getting to him.

[quote="Onin"]Question: What difficulty are you guys running on? Is there big enough difference in difficulties to warrant different categories, or should we just agree on one difficulty?[/quote]
To answer your questions :
We usually run on normal mode, and we'll probably stick to it.

But we tried running on easy mode once, and noticed a few differences (we made a video of it, but it's not uploaded yet, we'll post it here once it's done). We runned it in 19:41 if I remember well (and we lost 30 seconds I think on the 5th stage because there was a ghost bug (when you have the mask that spawns a ghost each time you kill an enemy, it sometimes mess up with the message "enemies left"  that tells you there are still monsters to kill whereas the arrow just points to a ghost) preventing me from teleporting to the final stage, so my friend had to come do it himself.

- The goal in each stage is to find the teleporter as fast as possible, so there's no difference between the two modes since you don't want to loose time trying to kill enemies.

- Once the teleporter is activated, there's a 90 seconds count down in both modes (against 120 sc on hard mode) so no difference.

- Now, whatever the difficulty mode you choose, your goal - when the teleporter is activated - is to prevent enemies from spawning everywhere and kill them all before the end of the 90 seconds. So if you play well, there's no enemy left on both mode. So you don't loose or gain time by playing easy or normal mode.

- However we've noticed a slight change in the final boss' HP. On normal mode : ~20 000 HP (16mn45 = in-game difficulty : hard). On easy mode : ~18 000 HP (16mn30 = in-game difficulty : hard)

Also, since you don't have as much enemies on easy mode as on normal mode, you have more chances not to die. When we run the game, we only pick boss items, or chest items during the 90 seconds countdown and never backtrack. So we get to the final boss pretty naked. If we don't have power-ups it's longer to kill the boss and it's more likely that you'll die even before getting to him.

Wilbo

2013-11-15 09:36:43 am

Videogames

So as Studio has figured out and I have tested it.
The prisoner, Acrid class is by far the best

Just did a run after Studio beat my 25:12 and I got a 22:08

His power is off the charts, check this out -

Onin

Edit history:

Onin: 2013-11-16 06:03:21 pm

2013-11-16 03:01:31 pm

Killing power is great, but Acrid really lacks in sheer movement speed, and depending on your teleporter luck that can make a pretty big difference.

I feel the Huntress has good potential as well. Does great damage, is probably the most survivable given room to blink, and she can actually abuse the Providence glitches. I've yet to finish a run with her, but I'm consistently getting better times for the first few levels.

Either way, Huntress+Acrid is likely to be the best coop combo, Huntress doing the portal finding and pickup farming while Acrid does the boss killing.

MauvaisVitrier

Edit history:

MauvaisVitrier: 2013-11-17 02:43:50 am

2013-11-17 02:41:07 am

Quote from Onin:

Either way, Huntress+Acrid is likely to be the best coop combo, Huntress doing the portal finding and pickup farming while Acrid does the boss killing.

Hmm, if you want to do the Providence AI bug and still have some decent DPS, you've got to have two long range characters. If you manage to play the sniper really well, I think it's the best character to do a speedrun. That's the only one who can do some serious damage to bosses really quickly.
But I'd have to agree that it is pretty hard to play this character.

Acrid is effective, but maybe just in solo. With two bandits in coop, the bosses are dead in less than 15-20sc, except Providence. So we don't need Acrid to kill the bosses.

Ps: the huntress may be one of the characters I should really learn to master, because I feel like she is very powerful. I think the best way to kill the final boss is to have long range characters with AOE attacks (worms are weak against these type of attack as you may have already noticed). So :

1) Huntress : long range AOE
2) Bandit : grenade AOE but not long range

Plus one can easily do the Providence AI bug with both characters.

[quote="Onin"]Either way, Huntress+Acrid is likely to be the best coop combo, Huntress doing the portal finding and pickup farming while Acrid does the boss killing. [/quote]Hmm, if you want to do the Providence AI bug and still have some decent DPS, you've got to have two long range characters. If you manage to play the sniper really well, I think it's the best character to do a speedrun. That's the only one who can do some serious damage to bosses really quickly.
But I'd have to agree that it is pretty hard to play this character.

Acrid is effective, but maybe just in solo. With two bandits in coop, the bosses are dead in less than 15-20sc, except Providence. So we don't need Acrid to kill the bosses.

Ps: the huntress may be one of the characters I should really learn to master, because I feel like she is very powerful. I think the best way to kill the final boss is to have long range characters with AOE attacks (worms are weak against these type of attack as you may have already noticed). So :

1) Huntress : long range AOE
2) Bandit : grenade AOE but not long range

Plus one can easily do the Providence AI bug with both characters.

Onin

2013-11-17 04:18:06 pm

Finished my first Huntress run at 26 minutes, due to not getting a SINGLE damage increasing item :|

Could VERY easily shave 4 minutes off the Providence fight with proper drops. And I like this chick.

Wilbo

2013-11-17 07:39:03 pm

Videogames

Really interested in seeing a good Huntress run.

I hope you upload a video of a great run Onin

Onin

2013-11-18 04:34:56 am

I'm kinda waiting for an update that fixes the awful framerate on the final level before I start recording. Hopefully that's not too far off.

Wilbo

2013-11-18 05:23:56 am

Videogames

I just turn down all the graphics settings to the lowest settings when I record runs.

Onin

Edit history:

Onin: 2013-11-18 05:27:47 pm

Onin: 2013-11-18 05:26:57 pm

Onin: 2013-11-18 03:12:45 pm

2013-11-18 03:10:02 pm

I got good new, and I got bad news.

The good news is, I tried to record some runs with DXTory and see how well I can handle it. In doing so, I set a new WR of 20:06 that was in no means perfect (though pretty great still). Sub-20 is easily possible!

The bad news: The framerate is awful. :|

I'll get to encoding and uploading it asap. And I'll probably switch to OBS for recording.

Edit: Well the video framerate is mostly okay, but, again, that last level just crawls to a halt for no good reason, which really sucks. Really though, it makes the game easier, I have so much time to react to things when it's running slowly Cheesy

Oh, and DXTory flickers in the corner. Sorry.

Anyway, video!

Wilbo

Edit history:

Wilbo: 2013-11-18 05:45:38 pm

2013-11-18 05:41:50 pm

Videogames

You should have played with the graphics settings on lowest and all that. Playing the last chunk of the game in slow motion is pretty dumb.

My times are set off of the ingame timer because I have all the settings down low and I only lose about 3 seconds total to loading screens.
Your last fight is about as long as half of my run due to the framerate

Onin

2013-11-18 05:47:59 pm

I have everything on low, my pc just isn't all that great.

Wilbo

2013-11-18 05:50:22 pm

Videogames

Well SDA measures time in real time and you took way more than 20 minutes to beat the game considering how laggy your last stage was

I don't know what to tell you man :/

Onin

Edit history:

Onin: 2013-11-18 06:02:46 pm

2013-11-18 06:02:10 pm

SDA doesn't use real time when there's an ingame timer. Either way, it's not like I'm submitting this run when sub-20 is clearly possible.

Wilbo

2013-11-18 06:10:11 pm

Videogames

Items in the game also stop the in game timer.

You are probably going to have to use real time since the ingame timer isn't viable especially since that wasn't a 20 minute run you got for sure.

Onin

2013-11-18 06:17:32 pm

Look, the ingame timer is based on framerate. If the framerate drops, the timer goes slower. Had that run happened at full framerate through-out the game, it'd have been 20:06 long.

Look at your 25:12 run earlier. It took you 30 minutes of real time to get 25 minutes game time. That's the exact same issue, just less prominent than in my run.

Dana Crysalis

2013-11-18 06:23:25 pm

Let's Dance!

I'm pretty sure the general rule of thumb for timing is "if the in-game timer is proven to be faulty, use an outside timer." And there are very few in-game timers that actually work well. Hoping to get some co-op runs in this sometime in the future!

Wilbo

2013-11-18 06:24:16 pm

Videogames

Quote from Dana Crysalis:

I'm pretty sure the general rule of thumb for timing is "if the in-game timer is proven to be faulty, use an outside timer." And there are very few in-game timers that actually work well.

This pretty much sums it up really. You can't rely on an in-game timer that the player can manually stop several times during a run