Red Faction - Impossible

2007-06-05 11:18:01 pm

To clear up the timing issue I've asked mikwuyma about it and he said that if you can save "anywhere" in a game, you get a 0.5 second penalty whether it's a manual save or a quicksave. So you can still use manual saving l2ebel Smiley

ZeRo

2007-06-06 03:00:33 pm

Speed is everything!

Ah, now Pweisger has changed that:

Quote:

AND fixed a lil' bugaboo with the RF Impossible run. It's now 80 segments max.

stanski

2007-06-06 08:46:19 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

To clear up the timing issue I've asked mikwuyma about it and he said that if you can save "anywhere" in a game, you get a 0.5 second penalty whether it's a manual save or a quicksave. So you can still use manual saving l2ebel Smiley

Can but shouldn't. The .5 second penalty is way worth it compared to the time it takes to navigate a save menu. Sorry that you didn't see this before.

I'll talk to mikwuyma about updating the FAQ now.

mikwuyma

2007-06-06 09:12:38 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Navigating the save menu only counts towards your time if the game has save points.

In games where you can save anywhere, like Red Faction, a save only costs .5 seconds, regardless of whether it is a quicksave or an autosave.

Yes, I know I need to update the faq/rules about this (and new game + rules for harder difficulties). I'll do it this weekend.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-06-07 05:55:08 am

2007-06-07 02:35:54 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Sorry for the misinformation then. I am an idiot.

just wanted to add if eel really bad about misinforming. i'll shut up about timing from now on, because i'm dumb.

henkie

2007-06-07 05:17:45 pm

How interesting, another Red Faction run! I look forward to seeing what new shortcuts you discovered, l2ebel. You should try to be more ambitious, though. I think a 1:10 is easily attainable, and would expect something closer to a 1:05 for this run, depending a little on how many detours you need to take to survive. I expect my WiP rerun of Red Faction to be about 59:xx, perhaps even 58:xx, and I estimate an impossible difficulty run should be doable in perhaps 10 minutes more.

Looking at your first segments, I can see that I was right about the relation between weapon accuracy and difficulty. It appears that on higher difficulties, not only do the guards become more accurate, so do their weapons. And, apperently, so do your own. In my current run, I could never make one-shot-one-kills with the pistol, simply because it has an enormous spread (annoyingly, so does the sniper rifle on normal difficulty, so no non-scoped headshots at... well... any range for me), while you manage it about every enemy.

About the segmenting, you can segment whenever you want, however you want. The menu time won't be taken into account for the final timing, and you certainly don't have to segment at every loading point. I know Spider did that in his Halflife run, but that's only because he had no choice. On the other hand, on this difficulty, I'd say you should use as many segments as you feel you need.

On to discussing your segments!

1 - 3. I group them together, because for all three segments goes the same comment: Jump more. Jumping on an incline (any incline) is faster than just running. You could probably save 4-5 seconds on this part by just jumping. Also, in the very beginning, in stead of waiting for the conversation to end and then picking up your baton, you could go on ahead, and in the first cave on your left hand (perhaps second, my memory on that is a bit hazy) should have a pistol lying around. I haven't timed this, and perhaps it's just me being impatient in waiting, but I thought it would be faster than waiting for the baton.

4. A tad sloppy/slow in dealing with the third guard. Since it was such a short segment, you could conceiveably have luck manipulated until the guard with the shotgun was directly in your route, netting you an early shotgun (and a healthpack).

6. Never knew you could climb ladders like that. Heh.

10. Great find on the shortcut, I love watching stuff like that. In the interest of saving health, you might be interested in knowing that it's possible to fall from the elevator onto the ledge below, which, somehow, saves you quite a lot of falling damage.

11. Nice falling down and taking no damage. Never could manage that while recording (when just playing, yes, but not while recording)

13. Good find in getting up there. I sometimes seriously wonder how I managed to find any shortcuts at all, given how linear I think.

14-15. See above. Nice jumping.

17. Nice headshot with the sniper rifle. In dealing with the guard behind the machinegun, you can shoot him in the head immediately, if you know the right angle. I do it in my run too. No need to dodge around trying to shoot him.

18. Damn! Another shortcut I never even thought about! Good show. Perhaps of a little interest: if you kill the first two guards after you've jumped the things faintly resembling sandbags, the two en route to the lava controls won't spawn.

21-23. Heh, that was my first route through the office complex, when I wanted to remain undetected. I'm a little puzzled as to how you've managed to avoid fall damage, falling down from the upper level, though. Never could manage that. On the other hand, with such short segments, I'd have gone for the guns blazing option, and just hope that my luck would hold.

25. Heh, I was going to do the exact same thing in my rerun as well.

Hmm, after viewing this, I'd say a 56, 57:xx should be possible for the normal run.

How interesting, another Red Faction run! I look forward to seeing what new shortcuts you discovered, l2ebel. You should try to be more ambitious, though. I think a 1:10 is easily attainable, and would expect something closer to a 1:05 for this run, depending a little on how many detours you need to take to survive. I expect my WiP rerun of Red Faction to be about 59:xx, perhaps even 58:xx, and I estimate an impossible difficulty run should be doable in perhaps 10 minutes more.

Looking at your first segments, I can see that I was right about the relation between weapon accuracy and difficulty. It appears that on higher difficulties, not only do the guards become more accurate, so do their weapons. And, apperently, so do your own. In my current run, I could never make one-shot-one-kills with the pistol, simply because it has an enormous spread (annoyingly, so does the sniper rifle on normal difficulty, so no non-scoped headshots at... well... any range for me), while you manage it about every enemy.

About the segmenting, you can segment whenever you want, however you want. The menu time won't be taken into account for the final timing, and you certainly don't have to segment at every loading point. I know Spider did that in his Halflife run, but that's only because he had no choice. On the other hand, on this difficulty, I'd say you should use as many segments as you feel you need.

On to discussing your segments!

1 - 3. I group them together, because for all three segments goes the same comment: Jump more. Jumping on an incline (any incline) is faster than just running. You could probably save 4-5 seconds on this part by just jumping. Also, in the very beginning, in stead of waiting for the conversation to end and then picking up your baton, you could go on ahead, and in the first cave on your left hand (perhaps second, my memory on that is a bit hazy) should have a pistol lying around. I haven't timed this, and perhaps it's just me being impatient in waiting, but I thought it would be faster than waiting for the baton.

4. A tad sloppy/slow in dealing with the third guard. Since it was such a short segment, you could conceiveably have luck manipulated until the guard with the shotgun was directly in your route, netting you an early shotgun (and a healthpack).

6. Never knew you could climb ladders like that. Heh.

10. Great find on the shortcut, I love watching stuff like that. In the interest of saving health, you might be interested in knowing that it's possible to fall from the elevator onto the ledge below, which, somehow, saves you quite a lot of falling damage.

11. Nice falling down and taking no damage. Never could manage that while recording (when just playing, yes, but not while recording)

13. Good find in getting up there. I sometimes seriously wonder how I managed to find any shortcuts at all, given how linear I think.

14-15. See above. Nice jumping.

17. Nice headshot with the sniper rifle. In dealing with the guard behind the machinegun, you can shoot him in the head immediately, if you know the right angle. I do it in my run too. No need to dodge around trying to shoot him.

18. Damn! Another shortcut I never even thought about! Good show. Perhaps of a little interest: if you kill the first two guards after you've jumped the things faintly resembling sandbags, the two en route to the lava controls won't spawn.

21-23. Heh, that was my first route through the office complex, when I wanted to remain undetected.  I'm a little puzzled as to how you've managed to avoid fall damage, falling down from the upper level, though. Never could manage that. On the other hand, with such short segments, I'd have gone for the guns blazing option, and just hope that my luck would hold.

25. Heh, I was going to do the exact same thing in my rerun as well.

Hmm, after viewing this, I'd say a 56, 57:xx should be possible for the normal run.

l2ebel

Edit history:

l2ebel: 2007-06-07 08:40:40 pm

2007-06-07 08:33:53 pm

Expert Donkey Fister

oooh youre still around! i was wondering if you were still lurking around this forum from time to time Wink

Quote:

How interesting, another Red Faction run! I look forward to seeing what new shortcuts you discovered, l2ebel. You should try to be more ambitious, though. I think a 1:10 is easily attainable, and would expect something closer to a 1:05 for this run, depending a little on how many detours you need to take to survive. I expect my WiP rerun of Red Faction to be about 59:xx, perhaps even 58:xx, and I estimate an impossible difficulty run should be doable in perhaps 10 minutes more.

Looking at your first segments, I can see that I was right about the relation between weapon accuracy and difficulty. It appears that on higher difficulties, not only do the guards become more accurate, so do their weapons. And, apperently, so do your own. In my current run, I could never make one-shot-one-kills with the pistol, simply because it has an enormous spread (annoyingly, so does the sniper rifle on normal difficulty, so no non-scoped headshots at... well... any range for me), while you manage it about every enemy.

hmm ive just tested it on medium difficulty and accuracy seems exactly the same, i can still one shot everyone with the pistol, i highly doubt theres any relation. in css im used to shoot others in the upper head, in this game i always shot too high cause it seems i need to shoot them right into the mouth, else it wont hit, id love to see the games hitboxes.

i surely restarted segment 2 about 30 times till i had things going in my favour, its not like i hit every guard on any distance right in the head
ive just tried to predict their movement and hit them in the head with the first or with a desperate second shot, anything after that didnt work for me.
i dont remember noscoping with the sniper, i always quickscope to get 100% accuracy

About the segmenting, you can segment whenever you want, however you want. The menu time won't be taken into account for the final timing, and you certainly don't have to segment at every loading point. I know Spider did that in his Halflife run, but that's only because he had no choice. On the other hand, on this difficulty, I'd say you should use as many segments as you feel you need.

i should make longer segments i know but pweisgers rules state that i have to save on every loading screen so yeah.. im still gonna follow that.
im not planning to submit this to sda, this is just a bounty run, maybe when im done with this ill restart though and segment everything a little better and iron out mistakes that i learn during this run.
my total time guess was crap, 1 hours to 1:10 is more like it as you say, ive expected to loose more hp tbh

On to discussing your segments!

1 - 3. I group them together, because for all three segments goes the same comment: Jump more. Jumping on an incline (any incline) is faster than just running. You could probably save 4-5 seconds on this part by just jumping. Also, in the very beginning, in stead of waiting for the conversation to end and then picking up your baton, you could go on ahead, and in the first cave on your left hand (perhaps second, my memory on that is a bit hazy) should have a pistol lying around. I haven't timed this, and perhaps it's just me being impatient in waiting, but I thought it would be faster than waiting for the baton.

hmm good tip, there are even some satchels, just shows how much i know about the game

just tried it ingame but i die when running past the 2 first guards, or i make it trough with like 20 hp left, maybe it can be done, ill try it if i "redo" the run

4. A tad sloppy/slow in dealing with the third guard. Since it was such a short segment, you could conceiveably have luck manipulated until the guard with the shotgun was directly in your route, netting you an early shotgun (and a healthpack).

i got his shotgun, however i dont find it too useful on impossible as its only effective on 1-2 meter distance, i often prefer to headshots with the pistol, thats 16 kills per mag!

i didnt want to take a shotgun hit, thats why i killed the guy as soon as i could, i dont think ive lost too much time on the 3rd guy as i was always running into his directing - where i need to go anyway.
but yeah.. i could do better next time

6. Never knew you could climb ladders like that. Heh.

10. Great find on the shortcut, I love watching stuff like that. In the interest of saving health, you might be interested in knowing that it's possible to fall from the elevator onto the ledge below, which, somehow, saves you quite a lot of falling damage.

with ledge, do you mean the higher part of the ground?
ive tried that jump about 20-30 times to find if there was a way of not loosing hp, my record was 54hp left of 100, in the end though i just thought fuck it, im gonna grab hp from dead guards anyway

11. Nice falling down and taking no damage. Never could manage that while recording (when just playing, yes, but not while recording)

13. Good find in getting up there. I sometimes seriously wonder how I managed to find any shortcuts at all, given how linear I think.

14-15. See above. Nice jumping.

17. Nice headshot with the sniper rifle. In dealing with the guard behind the machinegun, you can shoot him in the head immediately, if you know the right angle. I do it in my run too. No need to dodge around trying to shoot him.

18. Damn! Another shortcut I never even thought about! Good show. Perhaps of a little interest: if you kill the first two guards after you've jumped the things faintly resembling sandbags, the two en route to the lava controls won't spawn.

ah i see, ive wondered all the time what triggered them.
btw, i also tried to geo through a wall to destroy the pump but exactly that wall wasnt deformable, shame.

21-23. Heh, that was my first route through the office complex, when I wanted to remain undetected. I'm a little puzzled as to how you've managed to avoid fall damage, falling down from the upper level, though. Never could manage that. On the other hand, with such short segments, I'd have gone for the guns blazing option, and just hope that my luck would hold.

yeah maybe an option, would have to pistol snipe again though, AGH!

about the falling damage, maybe its because i dont record with fraps but onto dvd so my fps are usually around 125, maybe thats what makes the difference, idk..

25. Heh, I was going to do the exact same thing in my rerun as well.

Hmm, after viewing this, I'd say a 56, 57:xx should be possible for the normal run.

something i noticed while watching your run, how the hell do you fire your semis this fast? you must have a damn fast finger..

thanks for the analysis, its great to get constructive feedback like this Smiley

may i ask how far you are with your rerun? cause i found at least 1 shortcut that saves about 20 secs or more

oooh youre still around! i was wondering if you were still lurking around this forum from time to time ;)

[quote]How interesting, another Red Faction run! I look forward to seeing what new shortcuts you discovered, l2ebel. You should try to be more ambitious, though. I think a 1:10 is easily attainable, and would expect something closer to a 1:05 for this run, depending a little on how many detours you need to take to survive. I expect my WiP rerun of Red Faction to be about 59:xx, perhaps even 58:xx, and I estimate an impossible difficulty run should be doable in perhaps 10 minutes more.

Looking at your first segments, I can see that I was right about the relation between weapon accuracy and difficulty. It appears that on higher difficulties, not only do the guards become more accurate, so do their weapons. And, apperently, so do your own. In my current run, I could never make one-shot-one-kills with the pistol, simply because it has an enormous spread (annoyingly, so does the sniper rifle on normal difficulty, so no non-scoped headshots at... well... any range for me), while you manage it about every enemy.

[b]hmm ive just tested it on medium difficulty and accuracy seems exactly the same, i can still one shot everyone with the pistol, i highly doubt theres any relation. in css im used to shoot others in the upper head, in this game i always shot too high cause it seems i need to shoot them right into the mouth, else it wont hit, id love to see the games hitboxes.

i surely restarted segment 2 about 30 times till i had things going in my favour, its not like i hit every guard on any distance right in the head :P
ive just tried to predict their movement and hit them in the head with the first or with a desperate second shot, anything after that didnt work for me.
i dont remember noscoping with the sniper, i always quickscope to get 100% accuracy[/b]

About the segmenting, you can segment whenever you want, however you want. The menu time won't be taken into account for the final timing, and you certainly don't have to segment at every loading point. I know Spider did that in his Halflife run, but that's only because he had no choice. On the other hand, on this difficulty, I'd say you should use as many segments as you feel you need.

[b]i should make longer segments i know but pweisgers rules state that i have to save on every loading screen so yeah.. im still gonna follow that.
im not planning to submit this to sda, this is just a bounty run, maybe when im done with this ill restart though and segment everything a little better and iron out mistakes that i learn during this run.
my total time guess was crap, 1 hours to 1:10 is more like it as you say, ive expected to loose more hp tbh[/b]

On to discussing your segments!

1 - 3. I group them together, because for all three segments goes the same comment: Jump more. Jumping on an incline (any incline) is faster than just running. You could probably save 4-5 seconds on this part by just jumping. Also, in the very beginning, in stead of waiting for the conversation to end and then picking up your baton, you could go on ahead, and in the first cave on your left hand (perhaps second, my memory on that is a bit hazy) should have a pistol lying around. I haven't timed this, and perhaps it's just me being impatient in waiting, but I thought it would be faster than waiting for the baton.

[b]hmm good tip, there are even some satchels, just shows how much i know about the game :o

just tried it ingame but i die when running past the 2 first guards, or i make it trough with like 20 hp left, maybe it can be done, ill try it if i "redo" the run[/b]

4. A tad sloppy/slow in dealing with the third guard. Since it was such a short segment, you could conceiveably have luck manipulated until the guard with the shotgun was directly in your route, netting you an early shotgun (and a healthpack).

[b]i got his shotgun, however i dont find it too useful on impossible as its only effective on 1-2 meter distance, i often prefer to headshots with the pistol, thats 16 kills per mag! :)

i didnt want to take a shotgun hit, thats why i killed the guy as soon as i could, i dont think ive lost too much time on the 3rd guy as i was always running into his directing - where i need to go anyway.
but yeah.. i could do better next time[/b]

6. Never knew you could climb ladders like that. Heh.

10. Great find on the shortcut, I love watching stuff like that. In the interest of saving health, you might be interested in knowing that it's possible to fall from the elevator onto the ledge below, which, somehow, saves you quite a lot of falling damage.

[b] with ledge, do you mean the higher part of the ground?
ive tried that jump about 20-30 times to find if there was a way of not loosing hp, my record was 54hp left of 100, in the end though i just thought fuck it, im gonna grab hp from dead guards anyway[/b]

11. Nice falling down and taking no damage. Never could manage that while recording (when just playing, yes, but not while recording)

13. Good find in getting up there. I sometimes seriously wonder how I managed to find any shortcuts at all, given how linear I think.

14-15. See above. Nice jumping.

17. Nice headshot with the sniper rifle. In dealing with the guard behind the machinegun, you can shoot him in the head immediately, if you know the right angle. I do it in my run too. No need to dodge around trying to shoot him.

18. Damn! Another shortcut I never even thought about! Good show. Perhaps of a little interest: if you kill the first two guards after you've jumped the things faintly resembling sandbags, the two en route to the lava controls won't spawn.

[b]ah i see, ive wondered all the time what triggered them.
btw, i also tried to geo through a wall to destroy the pump but  exactly that wall wasnt deformable, shame.[/b]

21-23. Heh, that was my first route through the office complex, when I wanted to remain undetected.  I'm a little puzzled as to how you've managed to avoid fall damage, falling down from the upper level, though. Never could manage that. On the other hand, with such short segments, I'd have gone for the guns blazing option, and just hope that my luck would hold.

[b]yeah maybe an option, would have to pistol snipe again though, AGH!

about the falling damage, maybe its because i dont record with fraps but onto dvd so my fps are usually around 125, maybe thats what makes the difference, idk..[/b]

25. Heh, I was going to do the exact same thing in my rerun as well.

Hmm, after viewing this, I'd say a 56, 57:xx should be possible for the normal run.[/quote]

something i noticed while watching your run, how the hell do you fire your semis this fast? you must have a damn fast finger..

thanks for the analysis, its great to get constructive feedback like this :)

may i ask how far you are with your rerun? cause i found at least 1 shortcut that saves about 20 secs or more

henkie

2007-06-09 08:08:49 am

Quote:

i surely restarted segment 2 about 30 times till i had things going in my favour, its not like i hit every guard on any distance right in the head
ive just tried to predict their movement and hit them in the head with the first or with a desperate second shot, anything after that didnt work for me.
i dont remember noscoping with the sniper, i always quickscope to get 100% accuracy

Could be just my aim, though the weapons seem much more accurate in multi-player than in single player. To stick with the sniper, in single player I only get 100% accuracy with the sniper if I zoom fully. Anything less gives me some deviation. In multi player, on the other hand, I always have 100% accuracy, scoped or no.

Quote:

i should make longer segments i know but pweisgers rules state that i have to save on every loading screen so yeah.. im still gonna follow that.
im not planning to submit this to sda, this is just a bounty run, maybe when im done with this ill restart though and segment everything a little better and iron out mistakes that i learn during this run.
my total time guess was crap, 1 hours to 1:10 is more like it as you say, ive expected to loose more hp tbh

I wondered since when Pweisger had become an authority on this on the SDA, but I see now that he offered a bounty for this run. Still, I don't see anywhere that he mentioned that it had to be a segment a level. I guess we should inquire as to what he meant exactly. Did you PM him about this? Though I certainly won't blame you if you do segment that often, it is on impossible difficulty after all Wink

Quote:

hmm good tip, there are even some satchels, just shows how much i know about the game

just tried it ingame but i die when running past the 2 first guards, or i make it trough with like 20 hp left, maybe it can be done, ill try it if i "redo" the run

It's harder to survive, true, but I've managed to get there with only getting shot twice. Granted, it takes some (a lot of) luck, but, in a speedrun, you shouldn't be deterred by that.

Quote:

i didnt want to take a shotgun hit, thats why i killed the guy as soon as i could, i dont think ive lost too much time on the 3rd guy as i was always running into his directing - where i need to go anyway.
but yeah.. i could do better next time

While it's true you didn't lose too much time, once you're trying to reach perfection (like I try to in my rerun), you start realizing that every little detour costs you time. Like you said, you didn't lose too much time, but it could've been a second faster. But as I understand your run's aim is not perfection, but rather just completing a run. Gives me some space to improve your run Wink

Quote:

with ledge, do you mean the higher part of the ground?
ive tried that jump about 20-30 times to find if there was a way of not loosing hp, my record was 54hp left of 100, in the end though i just thought fuck it, im gonna grab hp from dead guards anyway

That's the ledge I'm talking about. If you manage to fall just on the edge of elevation, you can seriously reduce the fall damage. I suppose Red Faction is a bit buggish when it comes to landing on ledges like that. In my rerun, falling on that ledge is actually the only way to survive the fall.

Quote:

about the falling damage, maybe its because i dont record with fraps but onto dvd so my fps are usually around 125, maybe thats what makes the difference, idk..

Could be. There certainly is some dependency on fps in Red Faction.

Quote:

something i noticed while watching your run, how the hell do you fire your semis this fast? you must have a damn fast finger..

Pure home grown rapid finger clicking. Though there're plenty of other people who can click faster than me. Hell, some even use two fingers and can empty a precision rifle clip in a single second. Damn near rapid fire, that. Tried it myself for a while, but I can't aim for shit like that. Would be pretty amusing to see in a run, though.

Quote:

thanks for the analysis, its great to get constructive feedback like this Smiley

may i ask how far you are with your rerun? cause i found at least 1 shortcut that saves about 20 secs or more

Not very far, and I'm going to restart anyway, since I noticed a way I could improve my first segment by a second or so.

[quote]
i surely restarted segment 2 about 30 times till i had things going in my favour, its not like i hit every guard on any distance right in the head 
ive just tried to predict their movement and hit them in the head with the first or with a desperate second shot, anything after that didnt work for me.
i dont remember noscoping with the sniper, i always quickscope to get 100% accuracy[/quote]
Could be just my aim, though the weapons seem much more accurate in multi-player than in single player. To stick with the sniper, in single player I only get 100% accuracy with the sniper if I zoom fully. Anything less gives me some deviation. In multi player, on the other hand, I always have 100% accuracy, scoped or no.
 
[quote]i should make longer segments i know but pweisgers rules state that i have to save on every loading screen so yeah.. im still gonna follow that.
im not planning to submit this to sda, this is just a bounty run, maybe when im done with this ill restart though and segment everything a little better and iron out mistakes that i learn during this run.
my total time guess was crap, 1 hours to 1:10 is more like it as you say, ive expected to loose more hp tbh[/quote]
I wondered since when Pweisger had become an authority on this on the SDA, but I see now that he offered a bounty for this run. Still, I don't see anywhere that he mentioned that it had to be a segment a level. I guess we should inquire as to what he meant exactly. Did you PM him about this? Though I certainly won't blame you if you do segment that often, it is on impossible difficulty after all ;)

[quote]hmm good tip, there are even some satchels, just shows how much i know about the game
 
just tried it ingame but i die when running past the 2 first guards, or i make it trough with like 20 hp left, maybe it can be done, ill try it if i "redo" the run[/quote]
It's harder to survive, true, but I've managed to get there with only getting shot twice. Granted, it takes some (a lot of) luck, but, in a speedrun, you shouldn't be deterred by that.
 
[quote]i didnt want to take a shotgun hit, thats why i killed the guy as soon as i could, i dont think ive lost too much time on the 3rd guy as i was always running into his directing - where i need to go anyway.
but yeah.. i could do better next time[/quote]
While it's true you didn't lose too much time, once you're trying to reach perfection (like I try to in my rerun), you start realizing that every little detour costs you time. Like you said, you didn't lose too much time, but it could've been a second faster. But as I understand your run's aim is not perfection, but rather just completing a run. Gives me some space to improve your run ;)
 
[quote]with ledge, do you mean the higher part of the ground?
ive tried that jump about 20-30 times to find if there was a way of not loosing hp, my record was 54hp left of 100, in the end though i just thought fuck it, im gonna grab hp from dead guards anyway[/quote]
That's the ledge I'm talking about. If you manage to fall just on the edge of elevation, you can seriously reduce the fall damage. I suppose Red Faction is a bit buggish when it comes to landing on ledges like that. In my rerun, falling on that ledge is actually the only way to survive the fall.
  
[quote]about the falling damage, maybe its because i dont record with fraps but onto dvd so my fps are usually around 125, maybe thats what makes the difference, idk..[/quote]
Could be. There certainly is some dependency on fps in Red Faction.
 
[quote]something i noticed while watching your run, how the hell do you fire your semis this fast? you must have a damn fast finger..[/quote]
Pure home grown rapid finger clicking. Though there're plenty of other people who can click faster than me. Hell, some even use two fingers and can empty a precision rifle clip in a single second. Damn near rapid fire, that. Tried it myself for a while, but I can't aim for shit like that. Would be pretty amusing to see in a run, though.

[quote]thanks for the analysis, its great to get constructive feedback like this :)

may i ask how far you are with your rerun? cause i found at least 1 shortcut that saves about 20 secs or more[/quote]
Not very far, and I'm going to restart anyway, since I noticed a way I could improve my first segment by a second or so.

Sorcerer88

2007-06-11 11:03:23 am

I have no solution, but i admire the problem.

Restarting for a mere single second to be spared in a segment? Well, that's your decision, i'd prefer an earlier release of the run. But of course, if that 20-second time save from henkie works, that's another good reason to restart the run.

henkie

2007-06-11 04:34:36 pm

I think you've got us mixed up, Sorcerer. The 20 second shortcut is from l2ebel, and I was only at the 3rd segment anyway.

l2ebel

2007-06-11 10:19:49 pm

Expert Donkey Fister

hmm found a bug which gives unlimited ammo, the problem is that only 1 shot can be fired at a time which renders it useless for automatics

it could be handy for a bit of fusion RL spamming in the later levels, or for rail.. ill see

throw a nade but during the throw anim switch to another weapon and itll fire 1 shot..

it also increases the fire rate of the fusion RL and if you switch to the flame thrower youll throw the tank, could be useful too

i cba to write how the exploit affects the game in full extent, theres positive as well as negative sides to it, pm for more info

i hope im not bringing up stuff from 6 years ago, i guess most rf players know this as its so easy to replicate (or happen by accident)

henkie

Edit history:

henkie: 2007-06-12 09:07:53 pm

2007-06-12 09:02:55 pm

Heh, you're right, I did know about it already. Except that, as far as glitches go, this one is rather unspectacular, and if I feel like screwing around in multiplayer, I'll just do the same trick with the baton or pistol. Depending on how high your ping is, you can spam up to 5 rockets/c4s/rail/whatever. Hell, if you click you've a fast enough finger with the pistol and a ping of 200 or so, you can spam totally obscene amounts of rockets.

With so many more effective ways of glitching, I totally forgot that this was possible with the grenade as well. Not that I see much use for it in a run, though. Unless perhaps you can use it to increase the rate of fire of your rail gun, in which case it might be useful in a few cases. As for the fusion... well, you can pick one up as early as the conveyor belt to the shuttle to the space station (that little part will be hellish to survive on impossible difficulty, btw), but I don't see much use for it from there to where you'll be imprisoned by the mercs. Only if you're willing to shoot and then hide behind a corner, which is really only a last resort kind of measure in a speedrun.

By the way, the baton and pistol glitches don't work in single player, as they need some measure of lag to work.

/edit
Actually, if you manage to pick up a fusion launcher in the bit where you're driving through the canyon in an APC, you could use it to clear the conveyor belt. Would be difficult to execute, though, as you need to pass a certain point on the conveyor belt before they spawn, and then you've only got a very short time to fire and get out of the way.

Heh, you're right, I did know about it already. Except that, as far as glitches go, this one is rather unspectacular, and if I feel like screwing around in multiplayer, I'll just do the same trick with the baton or pistol. Depending on how high your ping is, you can spam up to 5 rockets/c4s/rail/whatever. Hell, if you click you've a fast enough finger with the pistol and a ping of 200 or so, you can spam totally obscene amounts of rockets.

With so many more effective ways of glitching, I totally forgot that this was possible with the grenade as well. Not that I see much use for it in a run, though. Unless perhaps you can use it to increase the rate of fire of your rail gun, in which case it might be useful in a few cases. As for the fusion... well, you can pick one up as early as the conveyor belt to the shuttle to the space station (that little part will be hellish to survive on impossible difficulty, btw), but I don't see much use for it from there to where you'll be imprisoned by the mercs. Only if you're willing to shoot and then hide behind a corner, which is really only a last resort kind of measure in a speedrun.

By the way, the baton and pistol glitches don't work in single player, as they need some measure of lag to work.

/edit
Actually, if you manage to pick up a fusion launcher in the bit where you're driving through the canyon in an APC, you could use it to clear the conveyor belt. Would be difficult to execute, though, as you need to pass a certain point on the conveyor belt before they spawn, and then you've only got a very short time to fire and get out of the way.