Recording DOS games?

2008-11-07 09:26:07 am

dos isn't really an operating system in the modern sense is it? it just helps you start (usually only) one other program - after that it doesn't matter anymore. so yeah i agree with enhasa.

djcj

2008-11-12 01:15:04 pm

Quote from Enhasa:

The pain of recording DOS games is why we don't have any up yet. Sad

There's a Duke Nukem 3D speedrun here. Wasn't that a DOS game?

Poesta

2008-11-12 01:36:47 pm

Yarr

Apparently you can run Build Engine games under Windows (XP). I came across this site a while ago which describes how, but I haven't tested it. I did it the easy way, JFDuke3D :P.

D-13

2008-11-19 08:52:55 am

Why don't you use DosBOX?
I guess you'll say it's not alowed becouse it's an emulator... then I have a thing that support DosBOX to be alowed.
If you go out to a gamestore and buy Space quest collection or Police quest collection you actually
get DosBOX right along when you install the game... so would these games not be alowed??
Seems to be that DosBOX emulation should be allowed.

Also SCUMMVM isen't an emulator... it's an iterpreter... should be alowed.

Sir VG

2008-11-19 09:28:13 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from D-13:

Why don't you use DosBOX?
I guess you'll say it's not alowed becouse it's an emulator... then I have a thing that support DosBOX to be alowed.
If you go out to a gamestore and buy Space quest collection or Police quest collection you actually
get DosBOX right along when you install the game... so would these games not be alowed??
Seems to be that DosBOX emulation should be allowed.

Also SCUMMVM isen't an emulator... it's an iterpreter... should be alowed.

DOSbox has been edited to allow TASing. That's the bigger reason.

http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5285

Enhasa

2008-11-24 07:11:47 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote from bimanc:

Sorry for asking that again, but i'd like to know SDA's official statement on the virtualization softwares. So Dosbox is banned, it's okay, but is VMware? What about any other programs like these? All are banned?
So the only way to record dos games is to run them on an old pc, and record the video with an other, am i right?
Thanks for your answer.

Sadly, you can't use VMWare, VirtualBox, ScummVM, etc. You can use MS-DOS, FreeDOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, etc. Also, I don't know what anyone's done with this, but Windows itself ran on actual DOS until it was integrated with NT for 2000, and even after that, Windows would count as an official emulator, so if you could play DOS games on Windows with any success (which I know some people have said they can), wouldn't that work?

Sir VG

2008-11-24 07:13:33 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Enhasa:

Quote from bimanc:

Sorry for asking that again, but i'd like to know SDA's official statement on the virtualization softwares. So Dosbox is banned, it's okay, but is VMware? What about any other programs like these? All are banned?
So the only way to record dos games is to run them on an old pc, and record the video with an other, am i right?
Thanks for your answer.

Sadly, you can't use VMWare, VirtualBox, ScummVM, etc. You can use MS-DOS, FreeDOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, etc. Also, I don't know what anyone's done with this, but Windows itself ran on actual DOS until it was integrated with NT for 2000, and even after that, Windows would count as an official emulator, so if you could play DOS games on Windows with any success (which I know some people have said they can), wouldn't that work?

For some games, that would work. Some however run way too fast on modern computers - often to the point of unplayability. Try playing the old Last Half of Darkness. The mouse cursor goes from 0 to 60 in -2 seconds. Tongue

[quote="Enhasa"]
[quote="bimanc"]
Sorry for asking that again, but i'd like to know SDA's official statement on the virtualization softwares. So Dosbox is banned, it's okay, but is VMware? What about any other programs like these? All are banned?
So the only way to record dos games is to run them on an old pc, and record the video with an other, am i right?
Thanks for your answer. 
[/quote]
Sadly, you can't use VMWare, VirtualBox, ScummVM, etc. You can use MS-DOS, FreeDOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, etc. Also, I don't know what anyone's done with this, but Windows itself ran on actual DOS until it was integrated with NT for 2000, and even after that, Windows would count as an official emulator, so if you could play DOS games on Windows with any success (which I know some people have said they can), wouldn't that work?
[/quote]

For some games, that would work.  Some however run way too fast on modern computers - often to the point of unplayability.  Try playing the old Last Half of Darkness.  The mouse cursor goes from 0 to 60 in -2 seconds. :P

bimanc

2008-11-24 07:58:25 am

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

And some doesn't work at all. Sad

But thanks for the answers, i just wanted to be sure about it.

(After i played a bit, i got a little discouraged. I wanted to run one of my old favourites, Chasm: the rift, but i find it very hard, and uncontrollable. I know that i should play more, so maybe i will give it a try. I can get old pc, but i also need a capture card then.)

Sir VG

2008-11-24 09:07:41 am

Fucking Weeaboo

What you can do is if you have a video card with S-Video out, that should work even in pure DOS, but only if your cable is plugged in and your TV turned to whatever channel is necessary. I say that because I've noticed that whenever I booted up a PC set up that way, if I didn't have itset to display initially, the TV wouldn't show the display until I reached Windows.

Then just record with a DVD recorder.

Poesta

2008-11-24 12:07:09 pm

Yarr

I was going to install FreeDOS but I didn't want to mess with the partitions to make a FAT filesystem. But if I would have a partition like that, couldn't I just make a DOS boot disk to run DOS games? Another aproach would be to put the games on a flash drive (FAT formatted) so you wouldn't have to touch the hard disk, but then you'd have to use a usb driver.

As for playing DOS games on Windows, I'm able to play Doom on Windows XP, altough the sound is messed up and the game runs very slowly. So recording demos on Windows XP could give me an advantage. Also, Windows NT uses a DOS emulator for the CLI (NTVDM) that was developed by Microsoft and not by a game developer.

Carcinogen

2008-11-24 12:44:42 pm

You could do a DOS boot disk, but the problem with running it through DOS/Command Prompt is that the CPU clockspeed causes the games to run too fast (and oftentimes without the drivers needed to get the proper visual and audio effects). Hence, emulators or old computers.

bimanc

2008-11-25 06:06:10 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

Quote from Poesta:

Also, Windows NT uses a DOS emulator for the CLI (NTVDM) that was developed by Microsoft and not by a game developer.

When i tried cpukiller, i could run the game under xp, but it crashed when i started a new game from the menu. And the cause was...NTVDM Undecided

I think having a dvd recorder and a tv is not the best option for me, because i need an old pc to run dos games either, and then, i can just record the video with my first pc.

djcj

2008-11-26 06:24:14 am

Okay, that isn't a really helpful tip but I guess sometimes old games are multiplatform released too, so just look around if there is like an additional Amiga, NES, whatever release of a DOS game and speedrun that instead. I can think at least of some games that were released for both, Amiga and DOS.

Besides, if there is a DOS game that has a demo function, how could one verify that the demo file wasn't recorded with DOSbox or VMWare?

Poesta

2008-11-26 07:59:12 am

Yarr

Quote:

Besides, if there is a DOS game that has a demo function, how could one verify that the demo file wasn't recorded with DOSbox or VMWare?

I don't know about other games, but with Doom this isn't possible. Quoting from the COMPET-N rules section:

Quote:

Using a different EXE other than DOOM.EXE v1.9 (size 715493 bytes) for Ultimate DOOM, DOOM2.EXE v1.9 (size 709905 bytes) for DOOM2 and Final DOOM, DOOM2.EXE v1.9 (size 722629 bytes) for Final DOOM is not allowed. Again, impossible to detect the use of an other exe to connect demos together, I'd ask all players: please don't use them!

Recording yourself with a camera while recording a demo would be the only option. Undecided

If any of the admins are reading this, would it be allowed to use Chocolate Doom for recording demos? It's a source port which tries to emulate the original Doom as close as possible and let it run under Windows, Linux and OSX. The differences are kept to a minimal.

[quote]Besides, if there is a DOS game that has a demo function, how could one verify that the demo file wasn't recorded with DOSbox or VMWare?[/quote]

I don't know about other games, but with Doom this isn't possible. Quoting from the COMPET-N rules section:

[quote]Using a different EXE other than DOOM.EXE v1.9 (size 715493 bytes) for Ultimate DOOM, DOOM2.EXE v1.9 (size 709905 bytes) for DOOM2 and Final DOOM, DOOM2.EXE v1.9 (size 722629 bytes) for Final DOOM is not allowed. Again, impossible to detect the use of an other exe to connect demos together, I'd ask all players: please don't use them! [/quote]

Recording yourself with a camera while recording a demo would be the only option. :-\ If any of the admins are reading this, would it be allowed to use [url=http://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/index.php/Chocolate_Doom]Chocolate Doom[/url] for recording demos? It's a source port which tries to emulate the original Doom as close as possible and let it run under Windows, Linux and OSX. The [url=http://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/index.php/Differences_between_Vanilla_Doom_and_Chocolate_Doom]differences[/url] are kept to a minimal.

Enhasa

2008-11-26 12:17:48 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I don't know anything about Chocolate Doom other than glancing at what you just linked, but I know D1X for Descent isn't allowed sadly, so I'd assume that would be exactly the same situation here.

Khaos4wood

2008-12-01 12:00:02 pm

:(

I haven't even looked at it, but shouldn't newer engines that allow old games to run under WinXP or later (ChocolateDoom) be allowed, just the way joequake is allowed? Of course, it'd be a case-by-case basis, but still....

Enhasa

2008-12-01 12:16:48 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

All I know is that Radix allowed joequake and disallowed D1X, so if someone can explain to me why, that would help. I don't make any decisions, I just see what other people say or would say.