RE4 PAL Specials Single Segment

2006-06-25 11:25:56 am

So whether the zealot leader dies in one shot (of the IRL OR SAR) seems to be a matter of the difficulty adjustment. Maybe that's why he wasn't dying when I shot him in my previous attempts.

I know sometimes it can take 3 headshots with the SAR too, so maybe Ubercapitalist had his game adjusted on the easy level and/or got a critical headshot.

About the difficulty adjustments: It's not as discrete as Torao made it out to be. (ie. take damage in this room, and this room will go well, etc.) It's a constant, on-going thing. I think they're using a sum or total of the things involved (number of dodges, lack of damage, accuracy, bullet count, etc.) and when that sum goes over a certain amount, then it adjusts to a more difficult level.

sshplur

2006-06-25 12:07:11 pm

atwyatt: what version was Ubercapitalist playing? I couldn't make out the SAR's firing speed (assuming its already had the exclusive upgrade).

atwyatt

Edit history:

atwyatt: 2006-06-25 05:04:44 pm

2006-06-25 05:03:55 pm

He plays on the GC North American version. I think the SAR is exclusively upgraded because there are no firing speed upgrades for it, except for the exclusive. (and it shows 2 blocks.)

ZooM

Edit history:

ZooM: 2006-06-25 10:23:56 pm

2006-06-25 06:47:32 pm

Yeah, SAR firing speed is not upgradable.

Quote:

About the difficulty adjustments: It's not as discrete as Torao made it out to be. (ie. take damage in this room, and this room will go well, etc.) It's a constant, on-going thing. I think they're using a sum or total of the things involved (number of dodges, lack of damage, accuracy, bullet count, etc.) and when that sum goes over a certain amount, then it adjusts to a more difficult level.

Yeah, I considered that, so I played up to Chapter 3-2 about 3 times doing different things. For example, damage/no damage, deaths/no deaths, Ashley takes damage/Ashley takes no damage, and so forth. And the result was the same: the novistadors were always the sure way to get the adjustment (at least with SW anyway).

Actually I was able to get a difficulty adjustment by killing Ashley in the crank area in Chapter 3-1, but I'm not sure how consistent that is. I only tried it once.

Anyway, I decided to quickly whip up a speed-through of Chapter 3-2 to demonstrate how the whole IRL thing is working for me. It has my stats at the end, if that matters. I'll have it up later today.

EDIT: Here's that vid: http://files.filefront.com/Chapter3_2_using_IRL__techniquewmv/;5189375;;/fileinfo.html.

There should be no ambiguity now regarding the actual method.

Yeah, SAR firing speed is not upgradable.

[quote]About the difficulty adjustments:  It's not as discrete as Torao made it out to be.  (ie. take damage in this room, and this room will go well, etc.)  It's a constant, on-going thing.  I think they're using a sum or total of the things involved (number of dodges, lack of damage, accuracy, bullet count, etc.) and when that sum goes over a certain amount, then it adjusts to a more difficult level.[/quote]

Yeah, I considered that, so I played up to Chapter 3-2 about 3 times doing different things. For example, damage/no damage, deaths/no deaths, Ashley takes damage/Ashley takes no damage, and so forth. And the result was the same: the novistadors were always the sure way to get the adjustment (at least with SW anyway).

Actually I was able to get a difficulty adjustment by killing Ashley in the crank area in Chapter 3-1, but I'm not sure how consistent that is. I only tried it once.

Anyway, I decided to quickly whip up a speed-through of Chapter 3-2 to demonstrate how the whole IRL thing is working for me. It has my stats at the end, if that matters. I'll have it up later today.

EDIT: Here's that vid: http://files.filefront.com/Chapter3_2_using_IRL__techniquewmv/;5189375;;/fileinfo.html.

There should be no ambiguity now regarding the actual method.

atwyatt

Edit history:

atwyatt: 2006-06-26 07:32:02 pm

2006-06-26 07:30:25 pm

I'm not there in my current run yet, but I'll check it out when I get there.

Usually when I need the difficulty adjustment on-demand, yellow health seems to do the trick. I use that to get both garradors in one RL blast when necessary, and to make sure only one wave of ganados comes out in 3-4 after the first 3.

I'll test it on my run-through, but if you plan out the getting hit in the water room, one RL blast into a nearby door might be enough to bring him into yellow health at that time. Although that's not going to be a whole lot faster than shooting the zealot leader twice and running to get the key.

I don't like the difficulty adjustments much. It's like a referee that's not consistent in his calls. I don't care if he makes bad calls; if he's consistent about it, at least I know what to expect, instead of it changing all the time.

ZooM

Edit history:

ZooM: 2006-06-26 09:41:32 pm

2006-06-26 09:39:51 pm

Quote:

I don't like the difficulty adjustments much. It's like a referee that's not consistent in his calls. I don't care if he makes bad calls; if he's consistent about it, at least I know what to expect, instead of it changing all the time.

Yeah, I dislike the difficulty adjustments tremendously. About a year ago I was planning to do an optimized Normal Weapons speed run, but about halfway through the planning stage I discovered the adjustments… and that was it for me. I found the adjustments absurd from a game-play perspective and I decided to stop playing the game altogether. It’s too bad, you know, because I really admired RE4.

The adjustments aren’t that bad, though, and they’re not hard to figure out either. But from a game-play point of view, I just can’t stand the idea of an inconsistent difficulty level… no matter how minimal the changes are.

And I really hope Capcom doesn’t do the same with RE5.

atwyatt

2006-06-27 02:19:56 am

Yeah, I was recording a normal weapons run for the site (around Torao's 2:08:xx times), but I didn't know how to do the adjustments, so when I got to Mendez, it lengthened out 20+ seconds.

I had it all planned out: 3 incendiary grenades, the barrel and 2 hand grenades (for the North American version.) But when I got to it in my recording, it took 3 IG's, 3 handgun shots, the barrel, 2 HG's, and 4 or 5 shotgun blasts. Sad

atwyatt

2006-06-27 06:50:56 pm

Ok, I just did the IRL/SAR thing and it's a difficulty adjustment thing as to whether you get him in one hit or not.

On my current file (without taking damage in the sewers or anywhere else) I had to get Leon into red health to get the red zealot leader's hit points to go down far enough to kill him in one shot.

It seems after that first shot he becomes invincible (even while he's on the ground,) so his hit points must be lowered enough to kill him in one hit. The scripted invincibility probably doesn't start until he puts his hand down from the cutscene.

I don't know if it's quicker to do the difficulty adjustments or to just get rid of him the normal way... unless all the adjustments can be done in the water room when it doesn't count towards the time.

The problem is it can go back up to the regular or advanced level of difficulty very quickly too, especially when you're dodging novistadors in the sewers. I wish we knew what exact equations they're using to determine these things. Sad

Ok, I just did the IRL/SAR thing and it's a difficulty adjustment thing as to whether you get him in one hit or not.

On my current file (without taking damage in the sewers or anywhere else) I had to get Leon into red health to get the red zealot leader's hit points to go down far enough to kill him in one shot.

It seems after that first shot he becomes invincible (even while he's on the ground,) so his hit points must be lowered enough to kill him in one hit.  The scripted invincibility probably doesn't start until he puts his hand down from the cutscene.

I don't know if it's quicker to do the difficulty adjustments or to just get rid of him the normal way... unless all the adjustments can be done in the water room when it doesn't count towards the time.

The problem is it can go back up to the regular or advanced level of difficulty very quickly too, especially when you're dodging novistadors in the sewers.  I wish we knew what exact equations they're using to determine these things.  :(

ZooM

2006-06-27 08:43:59 pm

On my earlier tests I purposefully went down to red health while Ashley was turning the crank and I didn’t get the adjustment... annoying.

Also, remember that I was able to kill him with the IRL without the difficulty adjustment, but it's rare and that is why I was so persistent to find a method that worked consistently (at least for me).

When you tested the SAR were you playing on a Special Weapons file, Normal Weapons file, or both?

atwyatt

2006-06-27 09:05:39 pm

Like I said, the difficulty adjustments are an on-going thing. You may have adjusted the level of difficulty in the water room. But then dodging too many novistadors can put it back up to the normal level. (especially if you were close to the dividing line.)

The amount of ammo that you have, your shot accuracy, the number of times you've dodged, the lack of damage you've taken, and possibly how quickly you kill the ganados... they all add in to the adjustment. It's a cumulative process, like a sum adding up, and when it gets to a certain number, it changes difficulties.

I've had the adjustments change in the middle of the novistador lair (like I said, it's dependent on the sum of the factors involved.) And it often changes in the middle of a room. That throws me off, because I'm playing one style for the normal level of difficulty, and then all of a sudden it changes, and Leon gets grabbed where he wouldn't have been grabbed, etc.

ZooM

2006-06-27 10:07:31 pm

And that is why I said it's "... annoying." Wink

Anyway, couldn't you just download the game from somewhere then check the game's code and figure all this out, once and for all?

RE4-fanboy

2006-06-30 03:44:49 pm

Cool about the IRL/SAR trick... I'd like to see that in a speed run!

...I think I'll check out the new NW speed run. although I've already seen Torao's run something like a year ago so I doubt it will interest me at all.

VMerken

2006-07-01 01:49:39 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

ZooM: there's still Pro mode, you know - no adjustments there, good times :). But yeah, they're there and ready to be abused - I did so plentiful in my Load Game run. Luckily, you can't abuse it too much (as in, say, keeping difficulty at an absolute low indefinitely) as that will cost you more time than you can gain.

As for the 3-2 Red Zealot trick: always fun to see something new every now and again. Last time I saw something freaky like this was the Leon ladder knife trick on Mr. Salvador in mercenaries.

For sport, I've verified it on PAL PS2 and I got the same as Kernelman: no dice. Using the IRL, I once got this shot: kicked the door open, immediately skipped the cutscene (only saw one or two frames), armed the IRL and shot it as quickly as possible, without using the visor. It can't get much quicker than that. The missile went exactly through the Leader Zealot's upper body (he had his arm still raised), impacted in the back, killing every Zealot there except the Leader, who wasn't even phased - and he's closer to the impact than the crossbow Zealots on the side. I did this with the difficulty at its absolute lowest (went through several Continues to get there). No luck with the SAR either, even though I got pure "head" and "skull" and "neck" and "upper torso" shots with the Leader Zealot's hand still raised. The bullets just pass right through him.

Oh well.

On Shin's site, I've noticed that a Japanese player achieved 1:55:06 with 0 saves (GC version). Since the Euro GC version is functionally identical to the Jap GC version, that's definitely a reference time to shoot for and beat, I'd say.

ZooM: there's still Pro mode, you know - no adjustments there, good times :). But yeah, they're there and ready to be abused - I did so plentiful in my Load Game run. Luckily, you can't abuse it too much (as in, say, keeping difficulty at an absolute low indefinitely) as that will cost you more time than you can gain.

As for the 3-2 Red Zealot trick: always fun to see something new every now and again. Last time I saw something freaky like this was the Leon ladder knife trick on Mr. Salvador in mercenaries.

For sport, I've verified it on PAL PS2 and I got the same as Kernelman: no dice. Using the IRL, I once got this shot: kicked the door open, immediately skipped the cutscene (only saw one or two frames), armed the IRL and shot it as quickly as possible, without using the visor. It can't get much quicker than that. The missile went exactly through the Leader Zealot's upper body (he had his arm still raised), impacted in the back, killing every Zealot there except the Leader, who wasn't even phased - and he's closer to the impact than the crossbow Zealots on the side. I did this with the difficulty at its absolute lowest (went through several Continues to get there). No luck with the SAR either, even though I got pure "head" and "skull" and "neck" and "upper torso" shots with the Leader Zealot's hand still raised. The bullets just pass right through him.

Oh well.

On Shin's site, I've noticed that a Japanese player achieved 1:55:06 with 0 saves (GC version). Since the Euro GC version is functionally identical to the Jap GC version, that's definitely a reference time to shoot for and beat, I'd say.