RE4 PAL Specials Single Segment

2006-06-22 07:41:55 pm

Boo.

Hi all, I'm currently working on a single segment RE4 speedrun with special weapons on normal skill on my PAL GameCube.

I've seen the 1:59:07 run several times and there are several spots where I've been able to save quite a bit of time, most notably the mine segment where I just blow up the rock with the IRL instead of messing around with the circuit breaker and dynamite. Wink

I haven't quite followed the whole thread on the professional run, but are the American and European versions of RE4 the same or would a finished run of mine be put in a different category?

I just finished one of my practice runs and got a reasonable 2:06:07 completion time and I've made enough mistakes / had enough bad luck to be able to cut at least 7 minutes of my time in another run.

Any tips or comments (especially on any version differences)?

Thread title:

AKA

2006-06-22 07:54:04 pm

He's back!

Why PAL don't you have a scart socket. If you do (not trying to be insulting) you can set it to 60HZ.

kernelman

2006-06-22 08:09:25 pm

Boo.

Ah, sorry. I use the scart socket. With "PAL" I just meant `European'. Sorry for the confusion. Is there an in-game switch to select 50/60Hz? I haven't seen it.

YautjaElder

Edit history:

YautjaElder: 2006-06-22 11:00:29 pm

2006-06-22 10:59:29 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

Ah, sorry. I use the scart socket. With "PAL" I just meant `European'. Sorry for the confusion. Is there an in-game switch to select 50/60Hz? I haven't seen it.

Try holding the B button pressed while the Gamecube logo appear. You should then be able to chose between 50Hz and 60Hz.

Radix

2006-06-23 12:30:23 am

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

I haven't quite followed the whole thread on the professional run, but are the American and European versions of RE4 the same or would a finished run of mine be put in a different category?

You already answered your own question.

Quote:

the mine segment where I just blow up the rock with the IRL instead of messing around with the circuit breaker and dynamite. Wink

kernelman

2006-06-23 10:12:05 am

Boo.

Heh, I thought it was quite an oversight in the current run, though I can imagine someone not even considering it as the RE series are usually so limited in the amount of inventiveness they allow. I was quite surprised that shooting the rock actually worked.

Another small difference I found is that the pictures puzzle where you have to get 6 corpses visible remembers the cursor position in the menu. As the combination is 1,2,3,4,OK I only have to press A and then left, A four times to complete it. The time gain is negligible but a difference nonetheless. This is also the only puzzle that does that. Strange.

I'll have to aim for at least 1:57/58 it seems.

atwyatt

2006-06-23 11:20:43 am

The RL-boulder technique (which Radix timed at about 50 seconds) and the 1-1 village fight are the only significant differences between the 2 versions.

The fastest time for 1-1 on the North American version that I know of is 3:48. While on the PAL, Sarou got 3:45, and I think Pota got about 3:43.

So there are some differences there in the village battle, but there's a different strategy that can be used on the North American version that can whittle that down to about the same time.

I don't have the PAL version, but on the NTSC version, the path of the zealot in the sword room is controllable, so you almost never need to stop and shoot him.

atwyatt

2006-06-23 11:49:10 am

Holy crap, you may want to bring a SAR along with you for the run. I just saw this video by my good friend Ubercapitalist:

http://files.filefront.com/Gatling_Zealot_Made_EZMOV/;5096110;;/fileinfo.html

How did something like this go for so long unnoticed?

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2006-06-23 01:17:16 pm

2006-06-23 01:13:47 pm

one-armed bandit

hmm, I wonder how you gonna fit that SAR in your inventory :p. and btw what happens when you reach the zealot? does the cutscene appear?

about 1-1, I lost 1 second while throwing the grenade near the end (aimed too carefully) and 1 second dodging the last boulder (you have to have luck guessing the right button combination). so 3:43 should be "easy" on PAL if you have the patience Tongue

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2006-06-29 03:56:49 pm

2006-06-23 01:37:40 pm

I was just thinking about something regarding that movie from Ubercapitalist.
What happens if you open the door normally (So there's no cutscene yet) and then shoot the red Zealot? Smiley

I haven't tried it myself but I was just wondering about it.

EDIT:
Heh, just to clarify it for myself, I'm playing the game again after a long time.
The thing I wondered above is total crap, you wll always get the cutscene... Wink

kernelman

2006-06-23 02:56:49 pm

Boo.

I start the game with the Chicago Typewriter, the IRL, the Special RL, about 24 full heals and a fully upgraded Auto Rifle with about 20 shots in it, so I could try this trick in my run.

I don't know why I kept the AR, I just thought it might be useful one time. Guess I was right. I don't have the Hand Cannon but haven't really needed one up till now.

About the times posted for 1-1, I'll try and get sometime close to them for it as it's just the first level, but I'm not sure I have the skill to be able to get perfect times. I don't have too much free time and a SS 2 hour run can only be attempted so often each week (for me at least.) But, of course, I'll keep trying Wink

Two of the run-killers for me are the Del Lago battle as it's so random and the room in the castle beyond the fire-breathing horse heads (up to where you cover Ashley while she cranks up the platforms.) I usually lose time on both and have to improve my strategies/accuracy for those sections.

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2006-06-23 03:42:03 pm

2006-06-23 03:40:22 pm

one-armed bandit

dont you have any flash grenades? those are quite usefull in the later parts of the game... and you also need a incendiary grenade vs krauser and some hand grenades in the village.

atwyatt

2006-06-23 08:19:43 pm

Yeah, you don't need that many healing items. 6 or 7 gold eggs should be enough.

I think Torao had an SAR in his 1:48:59 run. He knew the handcannon would beat the zealot leader in one shot, but I don't know if he knew the SAR would too.

For space, it could probably be substituted for the regular RL that Pota carries. I don' t think he uses all of his flash grenades also. (The last one on the regenerators by the lifting door isn't necessary.)

Torao also said that Saddler can be defeated with the IRL with the benefit of not having to run that extra distance when you use the Special RL. (I think it takes 2 shots every time, but I'm not sure if it changes with the difficulty adjustments.) So that would save the space of having to carry that. But I'm not sure if that's a time gain.

But you can probably do without the regular RL that Pota carries. I don't think you can skip enough flash grenades (at least not in a single-segment run) to fit the SAR in with that.

kernelman

2006-06-23 11:57:06 pm

Boo.

Up till now I haven't ever used a single flash grenade in the game (not even when I first started playing.) They seem to be useful only when the gains of walking past stunned enemies outweighs the time loss of switching to and from the grenades, but I'm willing to learn about their usefulness. Smiley

I've seen Torao's multisegment normal run and the current single segment record holder here at SDA. Sarou, is your run up somewhere? Is the time stated in your sig single or multisegment? I'm wondering where I'd use the incendiary grenade in the Krauser battle.

Thanks for all the input so far. I apologize if I'm asking commonly known things; like I said I can only spend so much time per week on this (both research and playing) so every tip is welcome.

ZooM

2006-06-24 02:56:14 am

Some things on that video that was just posted.

#1: You guys might already know this (or not), but you can use the RL to defeat the Red Zealot as well. I didn't try the IRL though, but it probably works.

#2: The move IS NOT possible in the Japanese version. I tested it and I found that the Red Zealot is totally invincible, even to the RL. Someone should try this on PAL.

Overall this is good for both Normal Weapons and Special Weapons on the NTSC GC version. For NW, I think it makes sub-2 much easier now, and for SW, it makes up for the boulder in 4-2.

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2006-06-24 09:35:38 am

2006-06-24 09:35:06 am

one-armed bandit

http://speeddemosarchive.com/ResidentEvil4.html
my run is posted there obviously, its a multisegment run and its on the PAL version.

you need the incendiary grenade for the last part of the fight, when Krauser transforms his arm and attacks you, dodge and throw the grenade. after that switch to IRL and blow him away.

atwyatt

2006-06-24 10:59:09 am

Quote:

#1: You guys might already know this (or not), but you can use the RL to defeat the Red Zealot as well. I didn't try the IRL though, but it probably works.

It doesn't work on my version (North American GC version.) It's possible that there's more than one North American version. I've tried the RL, IRL, Special RL, grenades, etc.

That's why I was surprised to see that the semi-auto rifle works. The key may be that he shoots him before his hand gets down from the cutscene. And maybe the scripted invincibility doesn't start until after that.

kernelman

Edit history:

kernelman: 2006-06-24 11:56:35 am

2006-06-24 11:55:55 am

Boo.

Quote:

my run is posted there obviously, its a multisegment run and its on the PAL version.

Ah, sorry. For some reason I completely overlooked your run on that page. I'll watch it before I ask any more dumb questions.

ZooM

Edit history:

ZooM: 2006-06-24 06:02:05 pm

2006-06-24 05:32:59 pm

I did some more tests with the Red Zealot.

-Special Weapons: I tried using the RL, s-RL, and IRL, and none of those killed him but he does get knocked down. I used the SAR and that worked fine (obviously), although his head didn’t blow up but I only gave it a handful of attempts.

-Pro: The RL doesn’t kill him but he does get knocked down. Again, the SAR works, but I don’t know if his head will ever blow up on the first shot on Pro.

-Normal Weapons (first play-through): Same save file I used for the info I posted in my first post on the Red Zealot… same results as before. More importantly, I must say that I played on an old HG/Knife-only save file and I’m sure that I probably died a number of times on the cabin fight, so there might have been a difficulty adjustment for all I know.

-Normal Weapons on Japanese version: The Red Zealot seems totally invincible. The RL doesn’t even knock him down and SAR bullets pass right through him.

And as for my version, well, the version number on the back of my NA GC disc is '000 USA'.

EDIT: Okay, I tried again on the same SW file that I used for the previous SW info in this post and I can confirm that the IRL CAN KILL HIM. I'm not sure why it didn't work before, but it did this time. And if nobody else can confirm this, I have it recorded so I could post it somewhere. Normally I'd find out right away why it didn't work before, but I have things to do right now so I don't think I'll play anymore today.

I did some more tests with the Red Zealot.

-Special Weapons: I tried using the RL, s-RL, and IRL, and none of those killed him but he does get knocked down. I used the SAR and that worked fine (obviously), although his head didn’t blow up but I only gave it a handful of attempts.

-Pro: The RL doesn’t kill him but he does get knocked down. Again, the SAR works, but I don’t know if his head will ever blow up on the first shot on Pro.

-Normal Weapons (first play-through): Same save file I used for the info I posted in my first post on the Red Zealot… same results as before. More importantly, I must say that I played on an old HG/Knife-only save file and I’m sure that I probably died a number of times on the cabin fight, so there might have been a difficulty adjustment for all I know.

-Normal Weapons on Japanese version: The Red Zealot seems totally invincible. The RL doesn’t even knock him down and SAR bullets pass right through him.

And as for my version, well, the version number on the back of my NA GC disc is '000 USA'.

EDIT: Okay, I tried again on the same SW file that I used for the previous SW info in this post and I can confirm that the [b]IRL CAN KILL HIM[/b]. I'm not sure why it didn't work before, but it did this time. And if nobody else can confirm this, I have it recorded so I could post it somewhere. Normally I'd find out right away why it didn't work before, but I have things to do right now so I don't think I'll play anymore today.

kernelman

2006-06-24 06:34:47 pm

Boo.

I also tried the zealot trick on my European version (many times) and I see the same as what you found in the Japanese version. I can't hit or impact him at all. He is completely removed from standard collision checks.

I watched Sarou's run and have created a new starting point file based on what I thought would work well with my playing methods. I now have 10 flash grenades, 4 normal grenades, 1 inc. grenade, the CTW, IRL, SRL and 19 full heals. I removed my SAR as the zealot trick did not work. I'm going to do some tests with this config and see if it's beneficial to exchange some more heals for grenades.

My current best at 1-1 is currently 3:50 (using just the CTW)

atwyatt

Edit history:

atwyatt: 2006-06-24 07:33:52 pm

2006-06-24 07:33:17 pm

Yeah, usually you want at least 15-16 flash grenades.

I think Pota has 18 in his 1:49:25 speed run. He doesn't use them all, but that shows how important they are, considering he's got the world record.

6 full heals should be plenty (golden eggs are ideal because they take up less space.) Unless you're literally running through the machine gun fire, you shouldn't need more than that, especially if you have the tactical vest.

There are some places where you have to take damage to keep the game from lengthening out, but 8 golden eggs should be plenty just to be safe.

ZooM

Edit history:

ZooM: 2006-06-25 05:21:42 am

2006-06-25 01:34:18 am

Well, I was able to find the time to upload the video and do some more tests on the Red Zealot thing.

http://files.filefront.com/Red_Zealot_IRLwmv/;5185818;;/fileinfo.html

-As far as I know, it seems that you have to get a difficulty adjustment by losing 3 slots of health or more within the novistador sewers in Chapter 3-2 in order to do it. It might be possible to trigger the difficulty adjustment in 3-1, but I don’t feel like trying at the moment.

-Shoot the IRL just a little above the Red Zealot. He usually won’t die if the shot is low.

EDIT: It is possible to kill the Red Zealot without the difficulty adjustment, but unfortunately it seems to be quite rare.

sarou

2006-06-25 06:02:00 am

one-armed bandit

is it possible to kill him on PAL now?

ZooM

Edit history:

ZooM: 2006-06-25 09:20:37 am

2006-06-25 07:03:06 am

Read the first paragraph of kernelman’s last post, sarou.

Anyway, I think using the IRL is much more single-segment friendly (for NA GC) because speed runners won't have to worry about taking damage from the novistadors, especially when it seems taking damage is practically the only way to kill the Red Zealot that way consistently.

And the SAR rarely blows up his head on the first shot, even with the adjusted difficulty. In fact, it seems to work as often as the IRL does without the adjusted difficulty, but I didn't spend very much time with the SAR so maybe I missed something there.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I actually got around to testing to see if I could get the adjusted difficulty for the Red Zealot by taking damage in the water-room when Ashley is turning the crank. Unfortunately, I didn't seem to get it. There is some stuff I'd still like to try though... but to be honest, I don't plan on doing a run, so I don't really see the point in going any further with this.

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2006-06-25 10:40:36 am

2006-06-25 10:40:15 am

one-armed bandit

uhm, I faintly remember knocking him down with IRL... maybe if you adjust the difficulty right you could perhaps kill him on PAL too? I don't really have the strength to test it :P. I haven't played the game in a long time.