Rayman 2:The Great Escape N64

Saestrol

Edit history:

Saestrol: 2006-11-06 08:17:11 pm

2006-11-06 08:16:24 pm

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Alright well with that in mind, I'm going to beat the DC version (Sometime today) and see if there are similarities or other differences.

The Lums for the most part, are in the way, so I doubt there will be much (if any) side/backtracking. Well maybe 'cept for Cave of Horrors... ugh

Comicalflop

2006-11-06 08:34:18 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

My run is going to be any%, so if you can take note of which Lums are easiest to get that are not directly on the path that'd be great for planning. If you find getting all Lums that are directly in the way let's you continue that'd be good to now and save time from route planning.

I'm currently redoing the Woods of Light

MissileWaster

2006-11-06 10:15:08 pm

The only real differences as far as versions are the fact that the PSX version was shorter. I think it was missing some of the sanctuary stages or something.

Comicalflop

Edit history:

Comicalflop: 2006-11-07 02:54:50 am

2006-11-06 10:24:57 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

And the Dreamcast has a few extra mini-games.

But besides that, they're all the same.

Woods of Light done, I'm sticking with high resolution because low resolution caused desynchs. I smash the Teensies' cage at 5 minutes 57 seconds. The cutscenes are very long- it's not until 7 minutes 29 seconds until the overworld map is reached.

Comicalflop

Edit history:

Comicalflop: 2006-11-07 06:34:14 am

2006-11-07 04:04:32 am

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

Alrighty, here's a rough plan for skipping some Lums and getting others... As the game gets harder obviously some Lums are harder to get, so maybe some of my suggested skip Lums are actually easier to get now rather than later:

Lum #'s are referenced in the FAQ guide

Lum 1-5: Skip (under water, slow)
6-7: get
8 in cage: skip out of way?
9: skip- Isolated island
10-15: get
3rd cage: 16-20
4th cage 21-25 skip?
26-27: skip?
28-35: get
5th cage: 36-38 skip?
39-48: air currents get
6th vage: Teensies

Any addendums? If I skip all the ones I suggested to skip it'd be 32 Lums, which is around the average number to get for the next 3 levels to get into the sanctuary of water and ice.

I think at this point that since I have started on this, and posting my work on TASvideos.org that all strategy stuff should probably be in that thread over there... I will post here for all non-TAS related stuff, as well as general progress. For those who wish to contribute strategies and suggestions, Rayman 2 Thread

Alrighty, here's a rough plan for skipping some Lums and getting others... As the game gets harder obviously some Lums are harder to get, so maybe some of my suggested skip Lums are actually easier to get now rather than later:

Lum #'s are referenced in the [url=http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/rayman_2.txt]FAQ guide[/url]

Lum 1-5: Skip (under water, slow)
6-7: get
8 in cage: skip out of way?
9: skip- Isolated island
10-15: get
3rd cage: 16-20
4th cage 21-25 skip?
26-27: skip?
28-35: get
5th cage: 36-38 skip?
39-48: air currents get
6th vage: Teensies

Any addendums? If I skip all the ones I suggested to skip it'd be 32 Lums, which is around the average number to get for the next 3 levels to get into the sanctuary of water and ice.

I think at this point that since I have started on this, and posting my work on TASvideos.org that all strategy stuff should probably be in that thread over there... I will post here for all non-TAS related stuff, as well as general progress. For those who wish to contribute strategies and suggestions, [url=http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4629]Rayman 2 Thread[/url]

Saestrol

2006-11-08 02:40:41 pm

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Hmm.... sounds good.

Well yes, there doesn not seem to be any giant differences but you guys are right.

You guys are aiming to get the exact amount of Lums required to open each door right? Alright then, that's where I'm going to start once I do. a basic runthrough of each stage etc.

Comicalflop

2006-11-08 04:38:59 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

The Woods of Light you need all 5, and in the Fairy Glade you can only get 48 in the first go. I'm thinking getting only 32ish, maybe an additional 6 near a pond in the cave at the first pirate you meet, the marshes of awakening will be nice because 49 lums are directly on the path while waterskiing behind Sssam, and I haven't done much planning beyond that. I'm currently at that first pirate that's met in Fairy Glade, and I'm trying to decide if the Lums that can be gotten in that cave are worth the detour.

Comicalflop

2006-11-09 03:00:39 am

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

Started doing some base calculations...

after 15 levels, to get to the Iron Mountains at which point the Lum # does not matter, you need 545 Lums in those 15 levels. That's an average of 36 1/3 Lum per level. Some are going to be fewer, some are going to be more (Marsh of Awakening, The Bayou, The Precipice). No more than 49 Lums should be collected per level- any more will activate the bonus game with the tiny globox and a random robot pirate.

Out of a potential 49 Lums per stage (last one will always be skipped) there are 735 Lums scattered throughout the 15 level. Since only 545 are needed, that gives us a maximum of 190 to skip. So skip sparingly, i.e. only really out of the way Lums.

I'll continue working on Fairy Glade tonight, but more improtantly I'll try to map out which Lums to skip per level. In test runs I've played up to the cave of bad dreams, playing through the levels but not quite testing strategies since I'm just playing the levels firsthand to get familiarity with the levels.

Started doing some base calculations...

after 15 levels, to get to the Iron Mountains at which point the Lum # does not matter, you need 545 Lums in those 15 levels. That's an average of 36 1/3 Lum per level. Some are going to be fewer, some are going to be more (Marsh of Awakening, The Bayou, The Precipice). No more than 49 Lums should be collected per level- any more will activate the bonus game with the tiny globox and a random robot pirate.

Out of a potential 49 Lums per stage (last one will always be skipped) there are 735 Lums scattered throughout the 15 level. Since only 545 are needed, that gives us a maximum of 190 to skip. So skip sparingly, i.e. only really out of the way Lums.

I'll continue working on Fairy Glade tonight, but more improtantly I'll try to map out which Lums to skip per level. In test runs I've played up to the cave of bad dreams, playing through the levels but not quite testing strategies since I'm just playing the levels firsthand to get familiarity with the levels.

MissileWaster

2006-11-09 02:37:15 pm

Wow, those are some nice calculations! I was wondering, are you doing segmented or SS for this?

KingCTTR

2006-11-09 06:07:41 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

Segmented would be best. There are some hard levels.

Comicalflop

2006-11-09 06:22:52 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

I'm actually TASing this, but giving all my findings of my test runs and Lum route planning here for discussion.

I highly suggest that anyone that tries this run do it segmented- as said the levels are hard, and I really don't think that a minimalist or 100% run can be done in one sitting, I'm having a hard enough time planning every Lum as it is. What I'm doing currently is planning potential skippable Lums (based on the FAQ's description) for all 15 levels before the Iron Mountains, and writing down which Lums are directly on the path, and pointing out which ones to debate skipping.

Here's more route plans, up to the sanctuary of Lava and Fire, the place where you need 300 Lums.

Marsh of Awakening
Get all but 2; get 1 on way to the Cave of Bad Dreams

The Bayou
Get all but 1 (most of these are straight on the path, and the ones that require a little sidetracking take a very small amount of detouring/waiting.)

Sanctuary of Water and Ice
Cage 1: 1-3 skip
4-9 skip
2nd cage: 10-19 skip
20-29 get
30-40 skip? They're easy to get, but still going up and around the entrance, easy 15-20 seconds lost
41-49 get
Axel Boss (he's so easy, I beat him in one try in real speed with no rerecords.)

Menhir Hills (there's a lot of skipping in this one, there's 8 cages and many cages/lums are really out of the way to get)
1st cage: 1-5 skip
2nd cage: 6-10 skip?
3rd cage: 11-15 skip?
16: get?
17?
4th cage: 18-20 skip?
21-31 get on shell
After Cave of Dreams:
6th cage: 36-38 get
7th cage: 39-40
41-42 get
8th cage: 43-44 get
45-50 get

Sanctuary of Fire and Lava
1-3 get
1st cage: 4-8 skip?
9 get
2nd cage: 10-14 skip?
15 get
3rd cage: 16 skip
4th cage: 17-18 skip
5th cage: 19-21 skip?
6th cage: 22-25 skip?
26-27 get
7th cage: 28-32
33-39 get
40 skip
41 get
8th cage: 42-46
47-50 get

My feeling is that some cages have 4-5 Lums in them, and that they may be worth not skipping because they provide so many Lums, which may be worth the time needed to get them, compared to cages that only hold 1. And maybe I'm skipping to many, because my current (brainstorm) route is skipping a lot of cages, some cages potentially won't take a lot fo time to get and maybe I'll overshoot the 190 max skip Lum number.

Thoughts?

I'm actually TASing this, but giving all my findings of my test runs and Lum route planning here for discussion.

I highly suggest that anyone that tries this run do it segmented- as said the levels are hard, and I really don't think that a minimalist or 100% run can be done in one sitting, I'm having a hard enough time planning every Lum as it is. What I'm doing currently is planning potential skippable Lums (based on the FAQ's description) for all 15 levels before the Iron Mountains, and writing down which Lums are directly on the path, and pointing out which ones to debate skipping.

Here's more route plans, up to the sanctuary of Lava and Fire, the place where you need 300 Lums.

Marsh of Awakening
Get all but 2; get 1 on way to the Cave of Bad Dreams

The Bayou
Get all but 1 (most of these are straight on the path, and the ones that require a little sidetracking take a very small amount of detouring/waiting.)

Sanctuary of Water and Ice
Cage 1: 1-3 skip
4-9 skip
2nd cage: 10-19 skip
20-29 get
30-40 skip? They're easy to get, but still going up and around the entrance, easy 15-20 seconds lost
41-49 get
Axel Boss (he's so easy, I beat him in one try in real speed with no rerecords.)

Menhir Hills (there's a lot of skipping in this one, there's 8 cages and many cages/lums are really out of the way to get)
1st cage: 1-5 skip
2nd cage: 6-10 skip?
3rd cage: 11-15 skip?
16: get?
17?
4th cage: 18-20 skip?
21-31 get on shell
After Cave of Dreams:
6th cage: 36-38 get
7th cage: 39-40
41-42 get
8th cage: 43-44 get
45-50 get

Sanctuary of Fire and Lava
1-3 get
1st cage: 4-8 skip?
9 get
2nd cage: 10-14 skip?
15 get
3rd cage: 16 skip
4th cage: 17-18 skip
5th cage: 19-21 skip?
6th cage: 22-25 skip?
26-27 get
7th cage: 28-32
33-39 get
40 skip
41 get
8th cage: 42-46
47-50 get

My feeling is that some cages have 4-5 Lums in them, and that they may be worth not skipping because they provide so many Lums, which may be worth the time needed to get them, compared to cages that only hold 1. And maybe I'm skipping to many, because my current (brainstorm) route is skipping a lot of cages, some cages potentially won't take a lot fo time to get and maybe I'll overshoot the 190 max skip Lum number.

Thoughts?

KingCTTR

2006-11-09 07:36:37 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

Why don't you just get all lums on normal path for every level? If you shouldn't have enough to open a door then you can't really go back, so you need to learn how many you need incase you need to go to off track areas.

Comicalflop

2006-11-09 07:44:30 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

Quote:

Why don't you just get all lums on normal path for every level? If you shouldn't have enough to open a door then you can't really go back, so you need to learn how many you need incase you need to go to off track areas.

Yes, I'm trying to find all 545 Lums that are the fastest to get, which require the least amount fo sidetracking to get. While many of them are directly on the path, I need to get exactly 550 by the time I get to the Iron Mountains, and since technically my run is from a restart I have to plan every Lum that is gotten/skipped.

KingCTTR

2006-11-09 07:48:49 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

Planning will take a while.

Comicalflop

2006-11-09 09:25:30 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

That indeed it will. I'm currently writing the Lum list for the Echoing caves. Just 5 more levels to go, and from there I can take each level plan that I wrote and find all 190 Lums to skip.

KingCTTR

2006-11-09 09:26:23 pm

CTTR Master and Spyro 2 Master

Why don't you try 100%?

Comicalflop

Edit history:

Comicalflop: 2006-11-09 10:00:00 pm

2006-11-09 09:57:37 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

that would be a VERY long run. Technically it would take less planning, because then I'd only have to test what is the fastest way to get Lums instead of planning the exact number of Lums to skip, but in the end I'd have to spend maybe an additional month or two or maybe more of actual playing, because it'd be so much longer.

While I love 100% runs, and this is the first any% that I ever considered (my other projects are improving my DKC2 102%, Kirby 64 100%, and possibly SMW2: YI 100%, and might be abandoning SNES Kirby Dreamland 3 100%) I don't think that even I could sit through the 4-5 hours it'd take for 100%. Since this game truly lacks known bugs/glitches/huge time-saving techniques, plus the cutscenes aren't skippable, making any% an obvious choice for the audience's benefit, if slightly not for my own in the huge planning required.

If making runs of this game was easier, then a 100% run existing before trying any% would actually be better, because than time comparisons betweent getting Lums would help greatly to see which ones to skip. However, since no run exists yet I'm blazing my own trail, based on rudimentary calculations and existing FAQ's.

My goal is for 3 runs to come from this (not all from me)- my any% run at the TAS site (assuming I can successfully complete it), and both an any% single segment and 100% segmented here, of which I will offer a great amount of help, input, and strategies throughout the whole process.

that would be a VERY long run. Technically it would take less planning, because then I'd only have to test what is the fastest way to get Lums instead of planning the exact number of Lums to skip, but in the end I'd have to spend maybe an additional month or two or maybe more of actual playing, because it'd be so much longer.

While I love 100% runs, and this is the first any% that I ever considered (my other projects are improving my DKC2 102%, Kirby 64 100%, and possibly SMW2: YI 100%, and might be abandoning SNES Kirby Dreamland 3 100%) I don't think that even I could sit through the 4-5 hours it'd take for 100%. Since this game truly lacks known bugs/glitches/huge time-saving techniques, plus the cutscenes aren't skippable, making any% an obvious choice for the audience's benefit, if slightly not for my own in the huge planning required.

If making runs of this game was easier, then a 100% run existing before trying any% would actually be better, because than time comparisons betweent getting Lums would help greatly to see which ones to skip. However, since no run exists yet I'm blazing my own trail, based on rudimentary calculations and existing FAQ's.

My goal is for 3 runs to come from this (not all from me)- my any% run at the TAS site (assuming I can successfully complete it), and both an any% single segment and 100% segmented here, of which I will offer a great amount of help, input, and strategies throughout the whole process.

MissileWaster

2006-11-09 09:58:56 pm

Quote:

Why don't you try 100%?

You would have to do the minigame with the baby Globox's after EVERY (iirc) stage if you did 100%. The minigame takes forever to do, and would be very wasteful of time.

Comicalflop

2006-11-09 10:01:50 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

Quote:

You would have to do the minigame with the baby Globox's after EVERY (iirc) stage if you did 100%. The minigame takes forever to do, and would be very wasteful of time.

Yes, correct. That's another reason for me not to do 100%, although with TAS I can get around that with turbo A and B. But those mini games are carpal tunnel inducing normally, so probably a segmented 100% would be the most likely. (although some levels you have to revisit anyways.)

Lazylen

2006-11-09 11:08:03 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote:

Wow, those are some nice calculations! I was wondering, are you doing segmented or SS for this?

ss would be suicide.

have you ever fought the last boss? :|

you'd end up destroying your controller after being creamed by the last boss/last couple of levels over and over when trying a SS.

i dont see it happening with a sane person, but maybe with a TAS.

Comicalflop

Edit history:

Comicalflop: 2006-11-10 01:17:24 am

2006-11-09 11:50:10 pm

It's time to use the HEALING TOUCH

I think insanity is a quality to look for in a speedrunner, insanity of the dedication sorts. who else would spend hours on this stuff?

I have seen that boss beaten SS- in the beginnning of this topic there's a movie posted with boss strategies, and in the second version of the boss he bumps into the walls alot but doesn't die. What is extremely difficult is the level up to that point, with all the crossing platforms to doge through. Took my brother at least a week of constant dying to finally get through that.

As stated before, I'll be doing it TAS so no worries. The biggest concern right now is laying out the route, which I'm 5 levels away from finishing the brainstorm.

Edit: nvm

Saestrol

2006-11-10 02:25:22 am

Speed Running Joy-bringer

Yeah, I was thinking a single segment was overkill.

I mean... considering how easy it is for Rayman to "die", this game should not be taken lightly.

I tried first two levels on some of my spare time (someone took my cube... the heck?) and got a rough idea, but it's going to be a hell of a lot different thant what I was thinking.

Cooolcwer(not zeldatopic)

2006-11-10 02:28:55 am

Sorry to be kinda off topic but it's really funny when I try a TAS and my normal run is faster lol.

Anyway I'm thinking about buying this game just so I want to watch the speedrun, I've played this before and a speedrun would be awsome!

laughing_gas

2006-11-10 02:32:31 am

Existence as you know it is over

Why would you need to buy the game in order to watch the run?

cooolcwer

2006-11-10 02:37:16 am

Quote:

Why would you need to buy the game in order to watch the run?

It would make it more fun! Tongue

Also I just like the game.

You know, I'd actually know what the game was like...

Because a run like this would be awsome.

EDIT:

Quote:

I think insanity is a quality to look for in a speedrunner, insanity of the dedication sorts. who else would spend hours on this stuff?

Good point.