Ratchet and Clank Future: A Crack in Time

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-15 05:28:15 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-15 04:52:16 am

2014-02-15 04:41:12 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

Quote from I have no name:

Quote from Thunder Axe:

EDIT 3: Getting all skill points would actually be a very tedious and difficult process (e.g. completing Overkill without taking damage for the Flawless skill point is just incredibly difficult).

So is getting every weapon to level 8 (tedious) in Ratchet and Clank Up Your Arsenal, but that's part of 100% as the skill points go towards unlocking the Insomniac Museum. Difficulty is a moot point as well, since there are plenty of runs with very difficult tricks and sections. The better question is what do the skill points, in casual play, give the player? I haven't played Crack in Time but going off the PS2 entries in the series, the skill points go towards unlocking the Insomniac Museum which was the simplest definition: for the 3rd game, that's all trophies. Do the skill points in Crack in Time unlock anything? If so, they really would have to be part of 100%, as annoying as it might be to run. You'd still be welcome to run without the skill points, but it wouldn't be 100%, you know?

Insomniac Museum in ACIT is unlocked by getting all Zoni and beating Vorselon in Corvus Sector after having beaten the game once. Since there is a mission in Insomniac Museum, the 'do all missions' requirement covers that. Skill points only unlock cheats such as new colors for Aphelion, bigger weapons etc, all optional stuff just as getting all weapons/armor is. So if it's included, it would have to be: All Missions + All Collectables + All Skill Points.

That said, I've also seen in the Ratchet and Clank 1 100% discussions that certain optional requirements (which in that case was getting all Weapons) were NOT included in the requirements. So I guess that we could include all Skill Points, but as far as completely optional requirements go I don't think it needs to be included in 100%...

@redsthename By 3rd Zoni I mean the other one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jZgTOE_ci68#t=300 You can get this one really quickly after getting the first 2 and so I skip the slowest moon which is Korthos Beta.

Also is 1:28:01 your fastest time and do you have it recorded? I'm currently at 1:37:06 with around 7-8 minutes worth of mistakes, so I'd love to know the time to beat.

[quote="I have no name"][quote="Thunder Axe"]EDIT 3: Getting all skill points would actually be a very tedious and difficult process (e.g. completing Overkill without taking damage for the Flawless skill point is just incredibly difficult).[/quote]
So is getting every weapon to level 8 (tedious) in Ratchet and Clank Up Your Arsenal, but that's part of 100% as the skill points go towards unlocking the Insomniac Museum.  Difficulty is a moot point as well, since there are plenty of runs with very difficult tricks and sections.  The better question is what do the skill points, in casual play, give the player?  I haven't played Crack in Time but going off the PS2 entries in the series, the skill points go towards unlocking the Insomniac Museum which was the simplest definition: for the 3rd game, that's all trophies.  Do the skill points in Crack in Time unlock anything?  If so, they really would have to be part of 100%, as annoying as it might be to run.  You'd still be welcome to run without the skill points, but it wouldn't be 100%, you know?[/quote]
Insomniac Museum in ACIT is unlocked by getting all Zoni and beating Vorselon in Corvus Sector after having beaten the game once. Since there is a mission in Insomniac Museum, the 'do all missions' requirement covers that. Skill points only unlock cheats such as new colors for Aphelion, bigger weapons etc, all optional stuff just as getting all weapons/armor is. So if it's included, it would have to be: All Missions + All Collectables + All Skill Points.

That said, I've also seen in the Ratchet and Clank 1 100% discussions that certain optional requirements (which in that case was getting all Weapons) were NOT included in the requirements. So I guess that we could include all Skill Points, but as far as completely optional requirements go I don't think it needs to be included in 100%...

@redsthename By 3rd Zoni I mean the other one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jZgTOE_ci68#t=300 You can get this one really quickly after getting the first 2 and so I skip the slowest moon which is Korthos Beta.

Also is 1:28:01 your fastest time and do you have it recorded? I'm currently at 1:37:06 with around 7-8 minutes worth of mistakes, so I'd love to know the time to beat.

redsthename

Edit history:

redsthename: 2014-02-15 02:33:04 pm

redsthename: 2014-02-15 02:32:49 pm

2014-02-15 11:09:01 am

aka CheesyPoofs

Quote from Thunder Axe:

Also is 1:28:01 your fastest time and do you have it recorded? I'm currently at 1:37:06 with around 7-8 minutes worth of mistakes, so I'd love to know the time to beat.

1:29:01 was recorded offstream and I have never bothered to render and upload the run. With the new skips you can probably go as low as 1:27 pretty easily.

*Had times messed up it was 1:29:01 and 1:29:29

redsthename

2014-02-15 10:12:35 pm

aka CheesyPoofs

Quote from Thunder Axe:

Found a way to skip the Detention Wing on Vorselon's Warship 1 entirely

This glitch is very hard for me to reliably do. I've attempted to make setups for it but it seems to just be random whether or not you will get launched far enough or just die to the death barrier. Do you have anything you specifically do to get this glitch constantly?

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-16 09:59:59 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-16 09:59:57 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-16 09:52:38 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-16 05:20:49 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-16 05:19:36 am

2014-02-16 05:16:22 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

Quote from redsthename:

This glitch is very hard for me to reliably do. I've attempted to make setups for it but it seems to just be random whether or not you will get launched far enough or just die to the death barrier. Do you have anything you specifically do to get this glitch constantly?

The way that I found this trick was that I was practicing the skip from the hangar to the Vorselon battle (http://www.twitch.tv/cheesypoofss/b/470210658?t=2h9m58s), when I just randomly double jumped from the floor onto the ramp and hyperstriked as I was just being pulled towards the gravity floor. This pushes you through the wall at a HUGE speed which will easily get you directly into the Vorselon battle arena, but you can also easily overshoot and land on the other side, which would mean you would have to do the section all over again :\ Then I was looking at the map for other places with gravity ramps and future sections behind them, and the only one I could find was the Aphelion location behind the 2nd cylindrical gravity-boot section.

The trick itself is very difficult to do, I've been looking at setups for this for about 8-9 hours total but it's still unreliable. It's because (1) the camera forces itself in another direction as soon as you get past a certain invisible line and (2) the double jump and Hyperstrike must be timed just right so that your hyperstrike lands at exactly the right position from exactly the right height. There are a few things that I've found can make it more reliable though:

1) Start as close to the invisible line where the camera changes itself but not go over it (you must still be able to move your camera for better aiming). This ensures that the camera will shift as early in the jump as possible (since you cross the invisible line as early as possible), which is good because the final part requires more precise movements
2) Stand far to the right (I use the base of the blue line going round the tube on the right as a marker)
3) Focus the camera towards the other side of the tube
4) You should make sure that just before you hyperstrike you are facing perpendicular to the ramp, as this conserves your speed after you clip through the wall
5) The position where you land the hyperstrike must be exactly at the position where I land in the video; going above it usually means you die instantly, going below it means you won't make the jump
6) The hyperstrike must be timed just right. I've found that in all my succesful attempts the position of the hyperstrike was about the same as the one in the video; but if I use a setup where I try to time it based on my current position on the screen it won't work, since both the camera and Ratchet move slightly differently every single time

I now can get it to work only 30-40% of the time, and so I don't include it in the SS route. Until I find some way to improve it it'll just be an SE trick Sad

[quote="redsthename"]This glitch is very hard for me to reliably do. I've attempted to make setups for it but it seems to just be random whether or not you will get launched far enough or just die to the death barrier. Do you have anything you specifically do to get this glitch constantly?[/quote]
The way that I found this trick was that I was practicing the skip from the hangar to the Vorselon battle (http://www.twitch.tv/cheesypoofss/b/470210658?t=2h9m58s), when I just randomly double jumped from the floor onto the ramp and hyperstriked as I was just being pulled towards the gravity floor. This pushes you through the wall at a HUGE speed which will easily get you directly into the Vorselon battle arena, but you can also easily overshoot and land on the other side, which would mean you would have to do the section all over again :\ Then I was looking at the map for other places with gravity ramps and future sections behind them, and the only one I could find was the Aphelion location behind the 2nd cylindrical gravity-boot section.

The trick itself is very difficult to do, I've been looking at setups for this for about 8-9 hours total but it's still unreliable. It's because (1) the camera forces itself in another direction as soon as you get past a certain invisible line and (2) the double jump and Hyperstrike must be timed just right so that your hyperstrike lands at exactly the right position from exactly the right height. There are a few things that I've found can make it more reliable though:

1) Start as close to the invisible line where the camera changes itself but not go over it (you must still be able to move your camera for better aiming). This ensures that the camera will shift as early in the jump as possible (since you cross the invisible line as early as possible), which is good because the final part requires more precise movements
2) Stand far to the right (I use the base of the blue line going round the tube on the right as a marker)
3) Focus the camera towards the other side of the tube
4) You should make sure that just before you hyperstrike you are facing perpendicular to the ramp, as this conserves your speed after you clip through the wall
5) The position where you land the hyperstrike must be exactly at the position where I land in the video; going above it usually means you die instantly, going below it means you won't make the jump
6) The hyperstrike must be timed just right. I've found that in all my succesful attempts the position of the hyperstrike was about the same as the one in the video; but if I use a setup where I try to time it based on my current position on the screen it won't work, since both the camera and Ratchet move slightly differently every single time

I now can get it to work only 30-40% of the time, and so I don't include it in the SS route. Until I find some way to improve it it'll just be an SE trick :(

LightningHalberd

2014-02-17 04:22:04 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

I've been thinking about the 100% category and I think that maybe having 2 categories instead of 1 isn't such a bad idea. The 2 categories then are:

- No Skill Points: All Missions + All Collectibles
- 100%: All Missions + All Collectibles + All Skill Points

Adding the skill points will change the route significantly (e.g. you need to buy all weapons which means more bolt farming, you need to get weapon specific skill points which means having to visit planets for possibly a 3rd time just for the skill points, etc.) and it'll be quite a bit longer too (I'm guessing +~40-50 minutes GT). Also the No Skill Point category can easily be SS'ed, while 100% is not that well suited for SS but more for SE.

So what do you guys think of this idea?

redsthename

2014-02-18 12:00:30 pm

aka CheesyPoofs

Quote from Thunder Axe:

I've been thinking about the 100% category and I think that maybe having 2 categories instead of 1 isn't such a bad idea. The 2 categories then are:

- No Skill Points: All Missions + All Collectibles
- 100%: All Missions + All Collectibles + All Skill Points

Adding the skill points will change the route significantly (e.g. you need to buy all weapons which means more bolt farming, you need to get weapon specific skill points which means having to visit planets for possibly a 3rd time just for the skill points, etc.) and it'll be quite a bit longer too (I'm guessing +~40-50 minutes GT). Also the No Skill Point category can easily be SS'ed, while 100% is not that well suited for SS but more for SE.

So what do you guys think of this idea?

I don't think skill points should even be included in 100% for this game. I also think the only weapon that would be needed to qualify for 100% would be the RYNO.

So the No Skill Points category should just be the 100%.

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-21 04:20:11 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-21 04:09:13 am

2014-02-21 04:00:26 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

Some skip improvements that I've found over the last couple of weeks.

Notes:
- Krell Canyon Battle skip: faster and easier to do than the old way and in the old way there was a probability of bouncing off the outside of the Zoni Temple wall, which the new way avoids completely
- Vorselon 1 Hangar skip: already mentioned this a few posts back. It's not necessarily faster, but it's faster to set up and easier to do. The old method was more prone to undershooting while this way is more prone to overshooting (there are a few ways to prevent the overshooting though, such as aiming for the elevator in the center of the room and bonking into it)
- War Grok battle: I've found that the Shrapnel upgrade for bombs, which happens to be the only Constructo upgrade that you get for free in the entire run, is also one of the most useful in the game. It increases the damage near the center of the blast radius by a factor of 2 or 3, so it's good against any slow moving enemy (such as the War Grok). This means you can 1-cycle him with V4 (or V5) Shrapnel bombs, and usually by that point you will have V4 bombs.
- Vorselon 2 battle: Shrapnel bombs are pretty good against Vorselon too
- Tombli Outpost battle skip: this jump is about as difficult as the Valkyrie Citadel skip, but faster than the old way
- Tombli Outpost Vine Ride skip: this may seem very inconsistent, but it's actually really reliable to do. Just hyperstrike half a second after Ratchet's head goes below the platform and it'll work

Not shown in the video:
- Shrapnel bombs will also kill Hydra Tanks with 2 bombs per head, which is much faster than V4 or V5 Buzz Blades. My current Gimlick Valley strat is to simply kill the Agorians in the Hydra Tank battle first with Buzz Blades until it reaches V5, and then kill the Hydra Tanks with Shrapnel bombs.
- Suiciding after generator Beta in Vorselon's Warship 2 is much faster than going back the intended way, and it also refills your health to do the generator Alpha skip (where you burn your butt on the heated platform)

Some skip improvements that I've found over the last couple of weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2IYb0LMpJE

Notes:
- Krell Canyon Battle skip: faster and easier to do than the old way and in the old way there was a probability of bouncing off the outside of the Zoni Temple wall, which the new way avoids completely
- Vorselon 1 Hangar skip: already mentioned this a few posts back. It's not necessarily faster, but it's faster to set up and easier to do. The old method was more prone to undershooting while this way is more prone to overshooting (there are a few ways to prevent the overshooting though, such as aiming for the elevator in the center of the room and bonking into it)
- War Grok battle: I've found that the Shrapnel upgrade for bombs, which happens to be the only Constructo upgrade that you get for free in the entire run, is also one of the most useful in the game. It increases the damage near the center of the blast radius by a factor of 2 or 3, so it's good against any slow moving enemy (such as the War Grok). This means you can 1-cycle him with V4 (or V5) Shrapnel bombs, and usually by that point you will have V4 bombs.
- Vorselon 2 battle: Shrapnel bombs are pretty good against Vorselon too
- Tombli Outpost battle skip: this jump is about as difficult as the Valkyrie Citadel skip, but faster than the old way
- Tombli Outpost Vine Ride skip: this may seem very inconsistent, but it's actually really reliable to do. Just hyperstrike half a second after Ratchet's head goes below the platform and it'll work

Not shown in the video:
- Shrapnel bombs will also kill Hydra Tanks with 2 bombs per head, which is much faster than V4 or V5 Buzz Blades. My current Gimlick Valley strat is to simply kill the Agorians in the Hydra Tank battle first with Buzz Blades until it reaches V5, and then kill the Hydra Tanks with Shrapnel bombs.
- Suiciding after generator Beta in Vorselon's Warship 2 is much faster than going back the intended way, and it also refills your health to do the generator Alpha skip (where you burn your butt on the heated platform)

Vibex

2014-02-21 04:24:51 pm

Hello guys. I've watched speedruns for quite some time,but this is the first game I have actively tried to run myself. My record is currently 2:29:27 for NG+, but that is without any glitches or exploits. I was just wondering if anyone has done a recent run with commentary, because I would love to learn all the tricks. Also is anyone currently running NG+ or is everyone doing any%?

LightningHalberd

2014-02-21 06:02:05 pm

twitch.tv/immersed13

Currently any% NG only, no NG+. I guess an NG+ category will have to be in challenge mode. But since you don't start with hoverboots/omnisoaker there's probably no new skips to be done and so it won't be that much different from regular any%. Also 100% has no runs yet (I'm still working on that)

Just did a run with the new strats and I died several times on the new Tombli Outpost battle skip. So I'll stick with the old strat for now. Also I improved my GT by a minute but my RT was 30 seconds slower Huh?

Vibex

2014-02-21 06:21:42 pm

NG+ would be faster though, because you don't have to get any zoni and you can obliterate everything with op weapons. I think I'll just copy the strats for NG to NG+ and run that till I'm happy. Then I may try 100%.

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-24 09:26:07 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-24 09:26:06 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-24 07:23:36 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-22 09:09:58 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-22 09:04:22 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-22 05:52:57 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-22 05:36:56 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-22 05:30:41 am

2014-02-22 05:29:39 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

@Vibex We use GT instead of RT, so you should show the game timer before starting the run and after the run and subtract them to get the GT. I also propose that NG+ is run in hard difficulty or else the run would be way too easy.

That said, I'm gonna try to do some NG+ runs some time this week. Did some test runs today and it's a fun category; it's basically a dumbed down version of regular any% (no bolt farming, no upgrading, no Zoni), but you get to use RYNO V everywhere which is pretty sweet. Only stuff to be optimized is the boss battles, since the groovitron is way less effective on hard.

LightningHalberd

2014-02-23 01:19:59 pm

twitch.tv/immersed13

Should we allow the time distortion cheats for NG+? I think we should (it's NG+ after all) but it'd mean that we should either have to learn all the cheats in super fast speed or we'd have to switch between speeds during the run.

Vibex

2014-02-23 01:24:56 pm

I'd say you should be allowed to use them. It will also make NG+ harder, having to learn all the tricks at high speed, which isn't a bad thing.

Vibex

2014-02-23 01:25:17 pm

I'd say you should be allowed to use them. It will also make NG+ harder, having to learn all the tricks at high speed, which isn't a bad thing.

redsthename

2014-02-23 03:20:21 pm

aka CheesyPoofs

You could use it but it would be a different category from NG+.

Vibex

2014-02-23 03:38:58 pm

Whoops I didn' mean to post twice. I wasn't logged in either. Not really sure how to delete the dupe post.

Quote from redsthename:

You could use it but it would be a different category from NG+.

That could also work.

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-25 11:02:22 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-25 10:58:58 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-25 09:55:57 am

2014-02-25 09:55:12 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

I just finished a run of the NG+ time distortion category in 1:46:52 RT / 1:52:46 GT. The fact that the GT is so high confirms my thoughts that the game timer is sped up by the same rate that the game is sped up by the time distortions. This means that using time distortion only speeds up the RT but the GT should be the same as in the regular NG+ category. But since speeding up the game makes it harder to follow the optimal route and makes it easier to make mistakes it is better to use no time distortions at all if you want a lower GT. It does lower the RT but since loading times can differ by a lot from session to session I don't think we should ever use it to time a run. So I think we shouldn't add a seperate NG+ category where you are allowed to use time distortions since not using time distortions is just always better than using them. I think you should still be allowed to use them if you want to in regular NG+, but no seperate category.

It is a fun run to play through though, I think with this it should be possible to finish the game below 1h30m if done perfectly.

I just finished a run of the NG+ time distortion category in 1:46:52 RT / 1:52:46 GT. The fact that the GT is so high confirms my thoughts that the game timer is sped up by the same rate that the game is sped up by the time distortions. This means that using time distortion only speeds up the RT but the GT should be the same as in the regular NG+ category. But since speeding up the game makes it harder to follow the optimal route and makes it easier to make mistakes it is better to use no time distortions at all if you want a lower GT. It does lower the RT but since loading times can differ by a lot from session to session I don't think we should ever use it to time a run. So I think we shouldn't add a seperate NG+ category where you are allowed to use time distortions since not using time distortions is just always better than using them. I think you should still be allowed to use them if you want to in regular NG+, but no seperate category.

It is a fun run to play through though, I think with this it should be possible to finish the game below 1h30m if done perfectly.

Vibex

2014-02-25 04:12:38 pm

I'm surprised you think it would need to be a perfect NG+ run to get sub 1:30. The NG record is about 1:30 and that requires you to get zoni, farm bolts, and use unupgraded weapons. I would think that the NG+ run could shave quite a lot of time of of the NG run.

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-26 01:00:28 pm

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-26 12:12:19 pm

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-26 12:11:59 pm

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-26 04:27:35 am

2014-02-26 02:54:14 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

Quote from Vibex:

I'm surprised you think it would need to be a perfect NG+ run to get sub 1:30. The NG record is about 1:30 and that requires you to get zoni, farm bolts, and use unupgraded weapons. I would think that the NG+ run could shave quite a lot of time of of the NG run.

I meant 1:30 RT Tongue

I finished practicing every section of the NG+ run individually so I decided to do my 1st full run on hard difficulty just to set a benchmark time. But it actually ended up going pretty well and I got a 1:18:25 GT / 1:57:48 RT. I only had 4 unintentional deaths (1 at Great Clock 1, 1 at Molonoth Fields and 2 at Krell Canyon) and most of the battles and skips went pretty smoothly. I'll post the video as soon as possible.

EDIT: Here it is (first 7 minutes are from a botched run, will edit it out later)

LightningHalberd

Edit history:

LightningHalberd: 2014-03-01 12:38:42 pm

LightningHalberd: 2014-03-01 12:38:10 pm

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-28 04:27:30 pm

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-28 06:20:25 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-28 06:11:20 am

LightningHalberd: 2014-02-28 06:01:37 am

2014-02-28 05:55:43 am

twitch.tv/immersed13

So regarding the NG+ run, the battles are already pretty easy on Hard difficulty so putting the difficulty on Casual makes it even more easy. That was why I said before that the difficulty should just be set on Hard to make it at least a little more interesting to watch.

However basically every other R&C that has an NG+ category keeps the same difficulty as in Any%, so I think it should be the same in this game.

I'll start doing some more NG+ runs (offstream) to improve the time some more.

EDIT: Just recorded a new NG+ WR of 1:13:56 GT / 1:52:53 RT on casual with no deaths and only a few minor errors. I might post it later on youtube. I think sub 1:12 with the current route is doable.

EDIT 2: Video:

Phyresis

2014-03-01 03:58:39 pm

So i guess i forgot to post this here, but vorselon 2 is skippable now. I told cheesy about this via pm a while back. I didnt realize someone else actually ran is game.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGciwYT9tWE

Phyresis

2014-03-01 04:06:40 pm

Forgot to add, its most likely way easier to pull off that skip if you use your method of clipping, as you do need height, but only enough to land on the upper pathway. It will let you leave the area without fighting vorselon as long as you land on the upper part of the room.

LightningHalberd

2014-03-01 04:21:01 pm

twitch.tv/immersed13

Quote from Phyresis:

So i guess i forgot to post this here, but vorselon 2 is skippable now. I told cheesy about this via pm a while back. I didnt realize someone else actually ran is game.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XGciwYT9tWE

The fight with Vorselon 2 is actually pretty fast with Shrapnel bombs ( and it also upgrades Groovitron by a lot. I think that your method is a little faster but that time might be lost by having worse Groovitrons during the Nefarious Station battles and the Nefarious/Azimuth battles.

During NG+ the Vorselon 2 battle takes about 3-5 seconds so it could still be faster but just by a little bit.

I'm also glad that more people are running this game Smiley

The more the better.

Phyresis

Edit history:

Phyresis: 2014-03-01 04:42:08 pm

2014-03-01 04:41:39 pm

Also make sure to send your times to the R&C leaderboards. I have not gotten a good run on tape yet, so i haven't but right now cheesy's WR run is the only run on the ACiT board. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AjsvVBzHBuImdEd0MUJERW45LVBOYml1MFZ2QWxTQ1E&f=true&noheader=true&gid=1

Phyresis

Edit history:

Phyresis: 2014-03-01 04:46:09 pm

2014-03-01 04:44:38 pm

Quote from Phyresis:

Also make sure to send your times to the R&C leaderboards. I have not gotten a good run on tape yet, so i haven't but right now cheesy's WR run is the only run on the ACiT board. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AjsvVBzHBuImdEd0MUJERW45LVBOYml1MFZ2QWxTQ1E&f=true&noheader=true&gid=1

The only place groovitron levels would be an issue is in nefarious station. Its the only place you use more than 2 really. Max 3 on nefarious. Usually 2-3 on azimuth. Unless im having a brain fart and they actually get longer durations with levels.

Edit: im so bad at forums.