Ratchet and Clank

2013-01-14 10:34:14 pm

I'll keep trying and if i can't get it, i'll see if i can get an original release cheap at the old game store. I need to get this to work so i can help plan the final product. Hard to test different paths if i can't skip the decoy glove. I'm playing on PS2.

CavemanDCJ

2013-01-16 04:16:05 pm

Totally Radical Awesome Game

Oh man, I am so excited that veldin got easier, that was the hardest part of the run imo. I just got a 1:38:07 any% and now we can skip the hydrodisplacer and rilgar? Sub hour might be tough, but im pretty jazzed to start learning this new stuff.

Orchisawesome

2013-01-16 04:17:19 pm

rilgar is impossible to skip. look into aridia/trespasser/decoy gloves skip too!

CavemanDCJ

2013-01-16 04:21:05 pm

Totally Radical Awesome Game

whoops i meant the trespasser skip. i really need to see how that and skipping the decoy glove works. Im watching the stuff on your channel right now for inspiration

Linkinito

2013-01-16 04:35:05 pm

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Quote from CavemanDCJ:

Oh man, I am so excited that veldin got easier, that was the hardest part of the run imo. I just got a 1:38:07 any% and now we can skip the hydrodisplacer and rilgar? Sub hour might be tough, but im pretty jazzed to start learning this new stuff.

Man, you beat my old PB which was WR. Sad

CavemanDCJ

2013-01-16 04:53:06 pm

Totally Radical Awesome Game

yeah, it was kinda random, i got it while watching a podcast. But it was still a pretty crap run, and now it can be improved by like, 20 minutes so whatev. As for these new skips, im deff skipping the trespasser and hydrodisplacer, but i dont think skipping the decoy glove is such a hot idea. I can get through doors with one decoy pretty consistently, and the alternatives look way slower.

Orchisawesome

2013-01-16 05:35:58 pm

The premise behind skipping decoy gloves is that, you can farm way less bolts, since trespasser skip skips A LOT of bolts.

Linkinito

Edit history:

Linkinito: 2013-01-16 05:50:05 pm

Linkinito: 2013-01-16 05:49:37 pm

2013-01-16 05:48:01 pm

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I agree with that. But in my PB run (1:40:58), I still lacked tons of bolts when coming to buy the Decoy Glove. I had to farm the Giant Clank section to get bolts quickly. By the way, skipping both Hydrodisplacer and Trespasser takes no significant problem up to Orxon with Clank. Just had to collect some additional bolts on BTS to get the Umbris infobot, and some bolts on Umbris to get the Gaspar infobot.

Also I tried to see if I could skip anything on Orxon with Clank. But found nothing interesting, only two minor glitches that are useless for speedrunning. The first one is Clank is capable of jumping repeatedly on some slippery surfaces, but you can do it only in one place (at the very beginning, on the round rocks to the right near the beginning of the Ratchet section) and it comes to a dead end as you can't jump up straight to the infobot. The second one is more interesting: you can be "stuck" somewhere, you see Clank shaking, and if you punch, you get thrown at some unusual heights (mostly a transfer of speed / physics abuse). It's pretty easy to do at the last "6 robots door" (just before the vers last one that requires 10). Go to the right of it, jump, you'll seem to be stuck (like a Decoy Glove glitch). Then punch and you take off. However the door is entirely solid and there's no way to clip it. And I didn't find another interesting place to use that glitch.

Orxon with Clank is definitely a pain that every runner will suffer from in every run.

I agree with that. But in my PB run (1:40:58), I still lacked tons of bolts when coming to buy the Decoy Glove. I had to farm the Giant Clank section to get bolts quickly. By the way, skipping both Hydrodisplacer and Trespasser takes no significant problem up to Orxon with Clank. Just had to collect some additional bolts on BTS to get the Umbris infobot, and some bolts on Umbris to get the Gaspar infobot.

Also I tried to see if I could skip anything on Orxon with Clank. But found nothing interesting, only two minor glitches that are useless for speedrunning. The first one is Clank is capable of jumping repeatedly on some slippery surfaces, but you can do it only in one place (at the very beginning, on the round rocks to the right near the beginning of the Ratchet section) and it comes to a dead end as you can't jump up straight to the infobot. The second one is more interesting: you can be "stuck" somewhere, you see Clank shaking, and if you punch, you get thrown at some unusual heights (mostly a transfer of speed / physics abuse). It's pretty easy to do at the last "6 robots door" (just before the vers last one that requires 10). Go to the right of it, jump, you'll seem to be stuck (like a Decoy Glove glitch). Then punch and you take off. However the door is entirely solid and there's no way to clip it. And I didn't find another interesting place to use that glitch.

Orxon with Clank is definitely a pain that every runner will suffer from in every run.

CavemanDCJ

2013-01-16 05:59:03 pm

Totally Radical Awesome Game

I use kerwan to make up the difference in bolts. As long as you have the 4000 for the umbris infobot, the route is basically the same. Grinding the giant clank section in quartu is pretty quick, and I had to do it in my pb as well, so I don't see any other problems.

Orchisawesome

2013-01-16 06:02:13 pm

trespasser skip= no hidden room in blarg and batalia which gives about 2k bolts in total. Gold bolt room in umbris is viable method to get some quick bolts too I guess (just get ghosted and go left). Orxon 1 (clank) is a pain yeah, but it's really easy to master to do it almost flawlessly.

Klasida

2013-01-17 09:59:18 am

I have been doing the run without the trespasser and hydro-displacer the past few days and still getting decoy glove. The bolts are tight but definitely doable. Just have to jump over the first Veldin trespasser door quickly before the ship kills your decoy. What I'm trying to glitch out now is the jet mini-game in Pokitaru. You can jump up onto the last area without doing the escort mission, but you don't hit any checkpoints without him being there. This makes it so the door to the thruster pack isn't open, but if you get in you can still buy it. I don't have a plan, but just trying things out. If we can trick the game into thinking we completed this, we can save 4k bolts, most of BTS because no need for grind boots, the grind-rail on Batalia, and the like 1 min 30 seconds for Gaspar. Sounds so good that I have to look, right?

Also, whats the Single Segment WR any%? I have not seen times for anything execpt the segmented WR here on SDA so ive just been trying to beat that and not recording because i was only getting like 1:25ish

I have been doing the run without the trespasser and hydro-displacer the past few days and still getting decoy glove.  The bolts are tight but definitely doable.  Just have to jump over the first Veldin trespasser door quickly before the ship kills your decoy.  What I'm trying to glitch out now is the jet mini-game in Pokitaru.  You can jump up onto the last area without doing the escort mission, but you don't hit any checkpoints without him being there.  This makes it so the door to the thruster pack isn't open, but if you get in you can still buy it.  I don't have a plan, but just trying things out.  If we can trick the game into thinking we completed this, we can save 4k bolts, most of BTS because no need for grind boots, the grind-rail on Batalia, and the like 1 min 30 seconds for Gaspar.  Sounds so good that I have to look, right?

Also, whats the Single Segment WR any%?  I have not seen times for anything execpt the segmented WR here on SDA so ive just been trying to beat that and not recording because i was only getting like 1:25ish

Linkinito

Edit history:

Linkinito: 2013-01-17 10:25:11 am

Linkinito: 2013-01-17 10:22:58 am

Linkinito: 2013-01-17 10:19:45 am

Linkinito: 2013-01-17 10:18:10 am

2013-01-17 10:17:31 am

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Quote from Klasida:

I have been doing the run without the trespasser and hydro-displacer the past few days and still getting decoy glove. The bolts are tight but definitely doable. Just have to jump over the first Veldin trespasser door quickly before the ship kills your decoy. What I'm trying to glitch out now is the jet mini-game in Pokitaru. You can jump up onto the last area without doing the escort mission, but you don't hit any checkpoints without him being there. This makes it so the door to the thruster pack isn't open, but if you get in you can still buy it. I don't have a plan, but just trying things out. If we can trick the game into thinking we completed this, we can save 4k bolts, most of BTS because no need for grind boots, the grind-rail on Batalia, and the like 1 min 30 seconds for Gaspar. Sounds so good that I have to look, right?

Also, whats the Single Segment WR any%? I have not seen times for anything execpt the segmented WR here on SDA so ive just been trying to beat that and not recording because i was only getting like 1:25ish

The trick on Pokitaru you are proposing isn't working, as the O2 Mask is required anyway to explore Orxon as Ratchet.

If you clip the door that leads to the jet mission, you need the Pilot Helmet to use it, and if you complete it without having escorted the big guy to the end, the game won't give you the O2 mask. Nothing will happen. You need to have the big guy at the end of the level, e.g. killing every enemy.

Also you still need the grind boots on Oltanis to get the Quartu infobot.

For the WR, it seems you have it with 1:25-ish. It's because nearly no-one runs the game any% NG. Most of the runs are NG+. My PB is 1:40, Caveman done 1:38. And its clearly improvable. Coming close to the old segmented run in SS with all the new glitches may be strongly possible.

Also, just to add, the Decoy Glove is very useful for the Drek fight as it improves greatly the chance of survival. As it gives you the "three weapons under 80% ammo" advantage for ammo refilling, and even if his attacks are predictable, it's still better to have a backup plan.

[quote="Klasida"]I have been doing the run without the trespasser and hydro-displacer the past few days and still getting decoy glove.  The bolts are tight but definitely doable.  Just have to jump over the first Veldin trespasser door quickly before the ship kills your decoy.  What I'm trying to glitch out now is the jet mini-game in Pokitaru.  You can jump up onto the last area without doing the escort mission, but you don't hit any checkpoints without him being there.  This makes it so the door to the thruster pack isn't open, but if you get in you can still buy it.  I don't have a plan, but just trying things out.  If we can trick the game into thinking we completed this, we can save 4k bolts, most of BTS because no need for grind boots, the grind-rail on Batalia, and the like 1 min 30 seconds for Gaspar.  Sounds so good that I have to look, right?

Also, whats the Single Segment WR any%?  I have not seen times for anything execpt the segmented WR here on SDA so ive just been trying to beat that and not recording because i was only getting like 1:25ish[/quote]
The trick on Pokitaru you are proposing isn't working, as the O2 Mask is required anyway to explore Orxon as Ratchet.

If you clip the door that leads to the jet mission, you need the Pilot Helmet to use it, and if you complete it without having escorted the big guy to the end, the game won't give you the O2 mask. Nothing will happen. You need to have the big guy at the end of the level, e.g. killing every enemy.

Also you still need the grind boots on Oltanis to get the Quartu infobot.

For the WR, it seems you have it with 1:25-ish. It's because nearly no-one runs the game any% NG. Most of the runs are NG+. My PB is 1:40, Caveman done 1:38. And its clearly improvable. Coming close to the old segmented run in SS with all the new glitches may be strongly possible.

Also, just to add, the Decoy Glove is very useful for the Drek fight as it improves greatly the chance of survival. As it gives you the "three weapons under 80% ammo" advantage for ammo refilling, and even if his attacks are predictable, it's still better to have a backup plan.

Orchisawesome

Edit history:

Orchisawesome: 2013-01-17 07:31:11 pm

2013-01-17 04:00:32 pm

I'm wondering, what is the definition of 100% Ratchet and Clank? Most of people seem to think that it should be all gold bolts and skill point. However, that definition leaves out items (A LOT of side quests) and gadgets.

I think that the definition should be all items (except for Raritanium, since you give it away for perusador), all gadgets, all skill points, and all gold bolts. I don't think that the fact that we need to get omega nanotech is a problem, especially in a 100% run.

I think that a NG run can approach sub 1 hour or so with a perfected route and expert playing.

Edit:
I went ahead and optimized Klasida's veldin major break. The glitch is similar as Drek's fleet no decoy glove method. I believe, it's original and HD collection only.

tenfoLd

2013-01-17 08:37:23 pm

Would that include farming the bolts necessary for the R.Y.N.O.?

Orchisawesome

2013-01-18 04:00:46 am

Quote from iLLixiR:

Would that include farming the bolts necessary for the R.Y.N.O.?

I would never ever include all weapons in 100% definition. Idk where you got that from.

Equinox

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2013-01-18 04:07:43 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

(I don't speed run this but I have watched this thread a lot). I would think the skill points and gold bolts would be mandatory for a 100%, sadly, the game also tracks gold weapons at the end of the game if I remember correctly, it all depends on what the rest of SDA thinks though. If it does get defined, don't hesitate to write it down here asap.

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/low100_definitions_12.html

I have been wondering the same thing since it came out, its probably a question a lot of people(even non-speed runners) have asked. It does look like ILLixiR requested a normal run back in 2005, but I have not a clue who requested the 100% lol.

Orchisawesome

2013-01-18 04:29:46 am

I highly doubt that such glitch would be discovered ever. I don't think that we should define 100%'s based on hypothetical situations... Additionally, most people takes multiple challenge modes before they obtain all weapons. If all weapons is added, then it's just 5 hours of Rilgar bolt glitch grind as soon as you get decoy gloves. No thanks.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-01-18 05:29:45 am

Equinox: 2013-01-18 04:32:24 am

Equinox: 2013-01-18 04:31:29 am

2013-01-18 04:30:52 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Yea you are right, but I am wondering about the 100% though, sorry I got rid of that as you said that, I figured I would just ask.

Orchisawesome

2013-01-18 04:32:54 am

I still think that this definition is the best:
All items (except for raritanium)
All gadgets
All skill points
All gold bolts

I would like to see other people who run this game's opinion before posting on that thread.

Equinox

Edit history:

Equinox: 2013-01-18 05:33:17 am

Equinox: 2013-01-18 04:35:07 am

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2013-01-18 04:33:42 am

Obsessicus Parrotus

Quote from Orchisawesome:

I would like to see other people who run this game's opinion before posting on that thread.

Yup yup, I was never trying to dictate it or anything, I hope it didn't sound like that, I would never be as knowledgeable as you when it came to that. I am glad it was being discussed, and I hope more people get involved on it, been lurking on this thread for a while so I thought I would say something, good luck to you.

tenfoLd

2013-01-18 08:29:44 am

@Orchisawesome

Yeah that definition looks great to me. I was simply asking to clarify since, obviously, all weapons would not work. I know you said "all items" but I was just making sure you didn't include weapons in the "item" category.

tenfoLd

Edit history:

tenfoLd: 2013-01-18 08:38:11 am

2013-01-18 08:37:52 am

Ratchet and Clank 100%

-40 Gold Bolts
-30 Skill Points
-Trespasser
-Swingshot
-Hydrodisplacer
-Metal Detector
-Gadgetron PDA
-Hologuise
-Heli-Pack
-Thruster-Pack
-Hydro-Pack
-Sonic Summoner
-Pilot's Helmet
-O2 Mask
-Grindboots
-Magneboots
-Hoverboard
-The Persuader (Use Raritanium to buy)
-The Bolt Grabber
-Premium Nanotech
-Ultra Nanotech
-The Map-o-Matic
-The Zoomerator
-CodeBot (Used to get one of the gold bolts)

Does this look complete?

Klasida

2013-01-18 11:01:14 am

Yeah, i was trying to trick the guy into thinking that you finished the jet section on Pokitaru so you did not need the pilots helmet, but I don't think it is happening. Also, i forgot about the grind boots in Quartu, lol. My bad.

Orchisawesome

2013-01-18 11:25:53 am

Yep, that seems to be right. I don't think anything is missing. We could add all planets, in case we find other glitches that allow us to obtain items or whatever in an unconventional method.

Klasida

Edit history:

Klasida: 2013-01-18 11:32:19 am

2013-01-18 11:31:22 am

If you guys are looking for 100% tricks, i have a few that i have not seen anyone else do (possibly because no one does 100% that i've seen). You can slope-intercept up the rocks to the right of the pipe in Quartu to get on top of it, then one more slope-intercept jump and glide over a seam and then into the bolt-grabber room. i use this if i am 400 bolts short on the decoy glove.

On Orxon, you can use the high-jump pound cancel to get to the ultra-nanotech from the first gadgebot area from the clank part. You just have to aim at the wall next to the platform that would go up and down, this way you gain a little more height and grab the ledge. You can slope-intercept for the gold bolt by the minefield too. You start to the right of the acid pool and just jump up the wall x2 then glide into the gold bolt.

I think those are the best ones i have, I don't really explore that very often.

and what i mean by the high-jump pound cancel (i have never seen anyone else to this so i'll just explain it) is with the thruster pack, you do a high jump. At the top of the jump, you press R1 for the pound. For a few frames, you can cancel out of the pound by pressing x while holding R1 still. You can gain a little height with this, and then you are doing a thrust forward at the top. It is about equivalent to a heli-pack high jump, but you get a boost forward at the end, which is why we need it here. I tried extending ratchets jump with this technique, but it does not give you a pure boost at the top so it is not any better than just a well timed boost at the top of the flip for distance.

If you guys are looking for 100% tricks, i have a few that i have not seen anyone else do (possibly because no one does 100% that i've seen).  You can slope-intercept up the rocks to the right of the pipe in Quartu to get on top of it, then one more slope-intercept jump and glide over a seam and then into the bolt-grabber room.  i use this if i am 400 bolts short on the decoy glove.

On Orxon, you can use the high-jump pound cancel to get to the ultra-nanotech from the first gadgebot area from the clank part.  You just have to aim at the wall next to the platform that would go up and down, this way you gain a little more height and grab the ledge.  You can slope-intercept for the gold bolt by the minefield too.  You start to the right of the acid pool and just jump up the wall x2 then glide into the gold bolt.

I think those are the best ones i have, I don't really explore that very often.

and what i mean by the high-jump pound cancel (i have never seen anyone else to this so i'll just explain it) is with the thruster pack, you do a high jump.  At the top of the jump, you press R1 for the pound.  For a few frames, you can cancel out of the pound by pressing x while holding R1 still.  You can gain a little height with this, and then you are doing a thrust forward at the top.  It is about equivalent to a heli-pack high jump, but you get a boost forward at the end, which is why we need it here. I tried extending ratchets jump with this technique, but it does not give you a pure boost at the top so it is not any better than just a well timed boost at the top of the flip for distance.